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Computer Software => Windows 10 => Topic started by: gt94sss2 on May 30, 2020, 04:28:48 AM

Title: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: gt94sss2 on May 30, 2020, 04:28:48 AM
Windows 10 version 2004 has been released by Microsoft.

Some of the changes are at https://www.neowin.net/news/windows-10-version-2004-is-coming---heres-what-you-need-to-know-about-it/ though I think their are lots of under the hood improvements as well.

Before upgrading it might be worth looking at https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/status-windows-10-2004
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: busterboy on May 30, 2020, 09:12:41 AM
I think I'll be leaving mine until this is resolved. ;)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/05/28/dont-press-windows-10-2004-update-now-button-microsoft-warns-some-users-may2020-windows10-update-warning/#14c117e26fc0
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on May 30, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
I'm still on 1903 and it works for me.

I don't know if its just me who thinks this, but why do Microsoft feel the need to keep updating the entire OS twice a year? That's not even matching the old cycle when we had to buy physical editions and updates.

The OS only really needs security updates and bugs fixing.

I was disappointed that a well known American tech guy did a livestream the other day advising people to update their windows to the latest version, even saying something like "people worry about bugs but 99% of you won't be affected". It seemed like an unwise decision with a blase attitude.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on May 30, 2020, 01:57:01 PM
Because the OS when they moved to Windows 8 became a complete clusterfsck of mismatched components.

They are trying to move everything over to a single more simplified UI and correct the many issues in legacy code, including some security vulnerabilities that have been around for decades as they never put the resources into fixes for fear of breaking compatibility.

Its not a great situation but I do believe this ultimately needs doing to secure the OS.  Its clearly a difficult process and they are naturally running into the very compatibility issues that prevented them doing it years ago.  Why they seem to keep finding them AFTER release rather than before is anyones guess.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on May 30, 2020, 03:49:56 PM
I think I'll be leaving mine until this is resolved. ;)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/daveywinder/2020/05/28/dont-press-windows-10-2004-update-now-button-microsoft-warns-some-users-may2020-windows10-update-warning/#14c117e26fc0

I have two PCs running W10 Pro and a laptop running W10 home.

I've updated the laptop. Only minor issue was that after the upgrade Google Backup and Sync lost sight of the Documents folder, but after repointing it to the correct place that is fine.

I'm about to upgrade the wife's PC.

On my PC Windows update is displaying the attached. I can't see an obvious way to force the update now.

All the article is saying is that if some people are stupid enough to override the delay M$ have in place for some configurations they may have problems.

Where's the issue?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: gt94sss2 on May 30, 2020, 05:04:59 PM
If someone wants to upgrade once a year, I would suggest getting the second update each year.

The first update seems to be the big one, while the one issued in H2 is minor - in fact most of the code for 1909 was actually included in 1903 but needed a switch to activate it - and that seems to be the pattern MS are now following
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on May 30, 2020, 05:16:35 PM
Had to turn off hypervisor and sandbox, then it updated ok  :fingers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on May 30, 2020, 09:10:24 PM
Slightly different minor issue with Google backup and sync on the wife's PC but otherwise all nominal.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on June 01, 2020, 08:32:50 PM
So... no deferring windows update for 365 days.... gone  :( only 35 days now
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on June 03, 2020, 03:45:11 PM
I still need to get my desktop and laptop to win 10, but this is going to be the LTSC build, which I know will feel slightly out of date, but I just cant get my head around the mentality of upgrading my entire OS every 12-18 months to unstable builds.

After that point I would likely update to newer LTSC builds perhaps every other build so every 6 years or so.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 06, 2020, 02:19:43 PM
Installed 2004 on my old i5, dual boot, Win 10 Home/Linux Mint desktop PC a few days ago, no ill effects to date, not had much time to investigate any changes or new features as yet.

Will hold installation on my main Ryzen-5, Win 10 Home desktop PC just in case any issues come to light.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Ronski on June 06, 2020, 03:27:31 PM
My main PC updated yesterday, was surprised how long it took to install, by far the longest update that I can remember.

Only ill effects was my jumpy mouse problem occurring again (easily fixed), and some default programs reset, other than that so far so good.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 07, 2020, 04:35:25 PM
Just noted one anomaly which I can only assume is associated with the feature update.
Local network devices not displaying on Win explorer.
This known anomaly goes back a very long time since v.1809 with MS failing to produce a solution, ironically until very recently, there is a work around for the issue which I have installed on my main PC, will have to look the details out again.

Good old MS, there's always at least one issue with their updates, most likely more, just a matter of finding them.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 08, 2020, 01:13:02 AM
I still need to get my desktop and laptop to win 10, but this is going to be the LTSC build, which I know will feel slightly out of date, but I just cant get my head around the mentality of upgrading my entire OS every 12-18 months to unstable builds.

It is bizarre when you consider that very thing is why some people stuck with Windows rather than moving to Linux.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 08, 2020, 08:36:46 AM
Just noted one anomaly which I can only assume is associated with the feature update.
Local network devices not displaying on Win explorer.
This known anomaly goes back a very long time since v.1809 with MS failing to produce a solution, ironically until very recently, there is a work around for the issue which I have installed on my main PC, will have to look the details out again.

Good old MS, there's always at least one issue with their updates, most likely more, just a matter of finding them.

The "work around" for this issue now appears not to work with 2004 so MS seem to have not only re-introduced the issue but stopped the long established work around from working !

Rather long thread relating to the issue:
https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/forum/windows_10-networking/windows-10-version-1809-network-does-not-show/d5241167-97e6-4b6d-a7e6-96238f876d27?messageId=21e4bf96-8c50-4989-883c-7e1a9a782b07&page=1

 
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on June 08, 2020, 10:03:07 AM
Do you have a pic/screen shot showing this?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 08, 2020, 09:39:38 PM
Do you have a pic/screen shot showing this?

Sorry parkdale, not totally sure what you are requesting ?

The Win 10 anomaly I'am refering to is fully described in detail on the MS community forum link thread I provided in a previous post.
Being effected or not was always a bit of a lottery, the i5 desktop PC was not previously effected until installing 2004 upgrade, my main Ryzen-5 desktop PC was always effected but the "work around" did cure.

Won't be installing 2004 on any of my other PC's in the mean time.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: banger on June 09, 2020, 01:44:53 AM
They also broke night light coming on with sunset after a reboot on my 2004.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 09, 2020, 09:36:39 AM
The Win 10 anomaly I'am refering to is fully described in detail on the MS community forum link thread I provided in a previous post.

That's a typically rambling forum topic of 14 pages. Not knowing the forum I can't tell whose posts are informative, whose are speculation etc.

Give us the TLDR!
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 09, 2020, 03:27:07 PM
That's a typically rambling forum topic of 14 pages. Not knowing the forum I can't tell whose posts are informative, whose are speculation etc.

Give us the TLDR!

OK, for anyone who does not wish to/does not have the time to read the full "rambling topic post":
See page 5 from the link provided earlier, entry under galileo1564 dated 19/02/19, this sums up the fix suggested.
Have attached a txt file of this post, formatting very basic, better to look at original post.

I had the issue described on my Ryzen-5 desktop PC and the suggested work around cured.
Some reported that it was finally addressed quite recently by MS, see later posts in the thread, can't rule on this as I just left the work around running in the background anyway.

As stated earlier, never had an issue with my i5, dual Win/Linux desktop PC until updating to 2004, applied the "work around" issue still the same. 
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 09, 2020, 03:30:51 PM
What is the use a post just giving a fix if you don't know what the issue/problem was to begin with?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on June 09, 2020, 05:29:21 PM
The only time I lost my network icons was using the Vodafone THG3000 router, now i'm back using the Fritzbox 3490 all is back working again :)
If you post a screenshot with the issue, would be helpful :fingers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 09, 2020, 05:39:32 PM
Am I missing something here ?

Post 12 in this thread relates:
Quote
Just noted one anomaly which I can only assume is associated with the feature update.
Local network devices not displaying on Win explorer.
This known anomaly goes back a very long time since v.1809 with MS failing to produce a solution, ironically until very recently, there is a work around for the issue which I have installed on my main PC, will have to look the details out again.

The title of the referenced post from the MS community forum reads:
Quote
Windows 10, Version 1809. Network does not show computers

Cross post while compiling acknowledged:
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 09, 2020, 05:44:53 PM
The only time I lost my network icons was using the Vodafone THG3000 router, now i'm back using the Fritzbox 3490 all is back working again :)
If you post a screenshot with the issue, would be helpful :fingers:

How can I post a screenshot of a network device that's doesn't display on Windows explorer, that's the problem, it's not displaying ?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 09, 2020, 07:21:08 PM
If you know the name of the missing devices and type \\devicename in to the address bar does it find the device and display the shared resources?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 09, 2020, 08:59:52 PM
If you know the name of the missing devices and type \\devicename in to the address bar does it find the device and display the shared resources?

Yes indeed, has always been the case, then appears on the Win explorer network tree, remains there while explorer is open and can be accessed normally.
On next opening of Win explorer have to go through the same process again to restore missing devices to the network tree.
Annoying !
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 09, 2020, 11:14:03 PM
OK. Annoying, but so really, really simple circumvent. Just create a shortcut to \\devicename and put it on the start menu, task bar, desktop or somewhere convenient - when you open the shortcut it opens Windows Explorer with the device shown and selected under Network.

Now please explain why something so utterly trivial is worth making such a song and dance about, or is a reason to delay applying new versions of Windows 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 10, 2020, 12:09:47 AM
OK, fine thanks for your help, much appreciated.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 10, 2020, 12:30:29 AM
As a matter of interest, have you seen the suggestion of using a shortcut anywhere else? I've been seeing this behaviour for months and it never bothered me as I could just enter the name. When you confirmed this was your issue I thought is there a simple way to get round it and as entering the name in the address bar works I thought a shortcut was worth a try - and it worked a treat.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: banger on June 10, 2020, 01:26:51 AM


I'm not seeing this on my 2004 as you can see my 3 computers and PVR are all showing up.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 10, 2020, 07:07:07 AM
In fact what I see may or may not be the same issue. I have no issue with the visibility of my PCs and laptop, they appear in both the navigation pane and  main pane (as both computers and media devices).

It's my NAS box that is odd. It doesn't appear in the navigation pane to start with even though I have permanent drive mappings on it which do show up (without any red crosses). It never appears as a computer and always appears as a media device. If I put \\nasbox in the address bar (or use the shortcut) it appears in the navigation pane and all the shares appear in the main pane. It stays visible in the navigation pane until I close and re-open Windows Explorer, but visibility in the main pane when Network is selected doesn't change.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 10, 2020, 09:09:32 AM
As a matter of interest, have you seen the suggestion of using a shortcut anywhere else? I've been seeing this behaviour for months and it never bothered me as I could just enter the name. When you confirmed this was your issue I thought is there a simple way to get round it and as entering the name in the address bar works I thought a shortcut was worth a try - and it worked a treat.

Do you mind sharing the logistics of your suggested shortcut method ?

My WD NAS is certainly an effected local network device which does not display on Win explorer network tree until directly addressed, same applies to my DSLStats, RPi 3B, network PC's are more inclined to appear automatically but not always.

Quote
It's my NAS box that is odd. It doesn't appear in the navigation pane to start with even though I have permanent drive mappings on it which do show up (without any red crosses). It never appears as a computer and always appears as a media device. If I put \\nasbox in the address bar (or use the shortcut) it appears in the navigation pane and all the shares appear in the main pane. It stays visible in the navigation pane until I close and re-open Windows Explorer, but visibility in the main pane when Network is selected doesn't change.

Certainly a more accurate account of what I have been trying to explain, same issue.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 10, 2020, 02:57:24 PM
You need Show desktop icons to be on.
You could also create shortcuts to subfolders on the device.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 10, 2020, 07:56:01 PM
You need Show desktop icons to be on.
  • Right click on the desktop and select New Shortcut
  • Enter the location of the item as \\nasbox
  • Give the shortcut a name and Finish
  • You can now right click the shortcut and pin to startor quick access
You could also create shortcuts to subfolders on the device.

Ahh, so just a simple desktop shortcut, thought it might have been something more complex.
Did go down that route previously before installing the "FDResPub" work around as outlined in the MS forum link provided earlier.
Thank you for the explanation.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: g3uiss on June 10, 2020, 10:28:14 PM
Itís actually a master browser issue I suspect. You can check which device is acting as master browser with nbtstat -a.

I would force the NAS to become the master browser by disable the computer browser service on all other devices. This is old technology but still causes glitches.

Think it will solve the problem as the FDpub doesnít help NAS boxes.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on June 11, 2020, 10:35:25 AM
Quote
Itís actually a master browser issue I suspect. You can check which device is acting as master browser with nbtstat -a.

Followed this line of investigation when the issue first occured but found that it did not consistantly cure the non appearance of local network devices on the Win explorer network tree, my WD NAS certainly being the most common absentee.

In my case the only solution that produced consistant and repeatable results was the "FDResPub" scheduled task work around.

From the MS community forum post as per link supplied earlier, some have had success by enabling remote desktop (Win 10 Pro option only) and/or disabling fast startup.   
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on June 12, 2020, 04:37:59 PM
It is bizarre when you consider that very thing is why some people stuck with Windows rather than moving to Linux.

I probably should migrate the laptop to linux, its way more performant for general desktop use, the only thing keeping my desktop of it is I run windows specific games and apps on there.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Ronski on June 13, 2020, 08:08:02 AM
It is bizarre when you consider that very thing is why some people stuck with Windows rather than moving to Linux.

I stick with Windows because I grew up with it, and know it, every time I look at Linux I end up coming to the same conclusion, that it's too steep a learning curve, and like pfSense there's too much complicated not fully explained information on the net. My brothers of the same opinion.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 13, 2020, 12:12:10 PM
On Windows, new software package will either be an exe or an msi. Either way you download it, open it and an installer runs which will guide you through the installation package.

Linux fails for the majority because it's nowhere near as simple. Far to many options and alternatives just makes it bewilderingly complicated.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on June 13, 2020, 01:36:24 PM
there is package managers now for linux so point and click or simple cli comand, in many cases its easier e,g. windows download firefox from vendor website and then manually install, whilst in linux its in the package manager
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on June 19, 2020, 11:38:51 PM
They've released the hold - version 2004 is now ready for my PC.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 22, 2020, 12:11:45 AM
I stick with Windows because I grew up with it, and know it, every time I look at Linux I end up coming to the same conclusion, that it's too steep a learning curve, and like pfSense there's too much complicated not fully explained information on the net. My brothers of the same opinion.

The irony there is I too grew up with Windows although admittedly that means I was still quite young when I first dabbled with Linux (late teens), but I find that all the faffing around they've been doing since Windows 8 has made it JUST as complicated, if not more so, than Linux.

As for the network shares not always showing up, I've had this problem off and on as long as I can remember, possibly even since Windows 7.  Its why I always have mapped my common network drives to drive letters.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on June 29, 2020, 10:22:57 PM
It seems malwarebytes is having some compability issues at the moment.

I'm thinking it must be with the paid version.

https://mspoweruser.com/malwarebytes-performance-issues-on-windows-10-2004/ (https://mspoweruser.com/malwarebytes-performance-issues-on-windows-10-2004/)

Quote
Now, Windows 10 v2004 users are facing issues when using Malwarebytes. According to users on the forums, Malwarebytes on v2004 is causing devices to freeze, lag and is even preventing apps from launching.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: banger on June 29, 2020, 10:44:03 PM
I dropped MWB since my login to the forums and password appeared in Firefoxes compromised email address list. I still get nasties and spam to the address to this day.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: gt94sss2 on July 02, 2020, 02:51:23 AM
So... no deferring windows update for 365 days.... gone  :( only 35 days now

You can still delay updates for longer - see https://www.thurrott.com/windows/windows-10/237087/windows-10-pro-users-can-no-longer-defer-windows-updates for how
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on July 11, 2020, 07:12:08 PM
While browsing for something else came across this anomaly reported since Win 10, 2004 update:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffHIY6pOJUk

Thankfully have not yet updated my main desktop PC to 2004 but have disabled the auto optimise option on my Win 10/Linux dual boot PC which has been updated and is running two SSD's.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on July 12, 2020, 01:13:46 AM
AFAIK there's no such thing as Trimming too often, it has to be done sooner or later.  The main reason to delay it is not to avoid wear as its minimal, its to avoid trimming while you are writing to the SSD and so slowing down writes.

Its only recently that Linux has adopted periodic trimming rather than letting the drive do it constantly.  You can still choose either option as neither is considered the single best solution for all scenarios.

Disabling trimming is a bad idea though, it will eventually slow down your SSD as its forced to trim during a write operation due to no free blocks left.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: jelv on July 12, 2020, 09:35:44 AM
I've not got an SSD but had a look at the video out of interest and had a quick read up on what trimming is.

He doesn't seem to be differentiate between defragging and trimming and seems to think they are both bad if done too often. AIUI trimming is essential and doesn't shorten the life of the drive as it isn't moving data around so I'd have thought more frequent smaller trims would be less noticeable. Defragging does move data around so will shorten drive life. Also, defragging was introduced for traditional drives where bringing data physically close together will reduce access times - is there any benefit to drefragging on an SSD.

Back to the video. When he clicked on one of the events at the bottom it showed it was a trim not a defrag that had just been done - so where's the problem?

My assessment of the video: fake news, load of bollocks...

Have I got that right?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on July 12, 2020, 09:51:12 AM
Indeed, Trimming erases NAND blocks that are no longer used for active data so that they can be written to faster.  Its literally a case of either do it now while the SSD is idle, or do it right before you are about to write new data, slowing everything down.

I believe an SSD may also avoid writing to those blocks that have not yet been trimmed in order to avoid the speed cost of wiping the block first, which can mean unevenly wearing out the NAND.

One could argue its better to do it too often to maintain the health of the SSD than it is to do it too little.  It could very well be they deliberately made this change in how Windows deals with SSDs.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on August 06, 2020, 12:24:14 PM
I did some testing comparing 1607 LTSB to 1809 LTSC.

On some tests on intel cpu there is a 46% performance loss fully patched, this is reduced to 18% with meltdown and spectre mitigation disabled.  Ouch. 

I also tested on ryzen and that loses performance between 1607 and 1809 also, but these tests I think are largely mitigated in most consumer workloads, they are on some quite old software frameworks which dont utilise modern acceleration techniques, I think the only modern workload I seen with a 10%+ hit was ssd io/sec testing.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on August 06, 2020, 01:31:09 PM
The ssd bug is about defragging, not trimming.

ssd's have a limited amount of writes, so if having defragging on is wasting writes and will shorten the life of the ssd.

Defragging is supposed to be turned off by default for ssd's.

He did an update video recently that fixed a lot of the bugs. But unfortunately the defrag ssd issue is still there. You can manually turn it off.


He keeps having a go at this other tech guy who does videos and keeps advising people to get the latest upgrade, even when it means downloading media creation or windows update assistant. I got to say I agree with Britec09 its irresponsible of the other guy to keep advising people to do that, and is a little weird because on every other issue he's like "only upgrade if you have to".

I'm still on an older version of Windows 10. I noticed it says its not available for my device yet. It would be interesting to see why is it being held up. Is there any program to see that?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Ronski on August 06, 2020, 08:55:15 PM
I've had 2004 for sometime now, both my SSD's state never run under last analysed or optimised, so I presume they've never been defragged, but I've removed them from the list just to be safe.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on August 06, 2020, 11:08:26 PM
The ssd bug is about defragging, not trimming.

ssd's have a limited amount of writes, so if having defragging on is wasting writes and will shorten the life of the ssd.

Defragging is supposed to be turned off by default for ssd's.

No, its not.  Its about Windows not remembering when it last trimmed the SSD so it potentially does it every day.  Windows Defrag does NOT Defrag SSDs, it only TRIMs them.  The confusion is people not understanding what this actually means and how it makes negligible difference how often you do it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Ronski on August 08, 2020, 09:54:27 AM
No, its not.  Its about Windows not remembering when it last trimmed the SSD so it potentially does it every day.  Windows Defrag does NOT Defrag SSDs, it only TRIMs them.  The confusion is people not understanding what this actually means and how it makes negligible difference how often you do it.

So by following earlier advice have I actually turned off trim for my SSD's - see attached???

ETA. It would appear so https://www.howtogeek.com/256859/dont-waste-time-optimizing-your-ssd-windows-knows-what-its-doing/ I'll re-enable it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on August 08, 2020, 10:32:32 AM
I came across this article... Remember "Garbage collection"? on SSD's all trim does is to trigger garbage collection at block level therefore freeing up that space for more data.
https://getprostorage.com/blog/ssd-garbage-collection-trim/

Garbage collection will delete the data.......eventually :fingers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on August 08, 2020, 12:00:06 PM
yep trim, kind of really just makes the internal maintenance happen a bit earlier, and assists, but now days SSD's are designed to be able to do what they need to do unassisted by the OS.

I am still on windows 8 and I checked windows defrag, I did configure it to run once a week, but my SSD's have not been trimmed by that tool for over a year, they still run at their top performance level.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: gt94sss2 on August 08, 2020, 05:09:29 PM
I'm still on an older version of Windows 10. I noticed it says its not available for my device yet. It would be interesting to see why is it being held up. Is there any program to see that?

I have a PC in the same position and the best I can find is looking at the list of unresolved issues which MS have decided means the update shouldn't yet be offered and to guess which applies

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/release-information/status-windows-10-2004

I'm assuming a lot of people are affected by the driver issues listed.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on August 08, 2020, 11:06:27 PM
I think my mums PC got updated as she said Windows updated and now Firefox keeps crashing.

My Ryzen laptop was updated and I did not notice any issues, but it doesn't get used much.  That's basically my web browsing only laptop.

Both my gaming desktop and gaming laptop are waiting on the update, which is ironic as those are the ones that should actually benefit from it due to the improvements in GPU drivers.

Knowing my luck the desktop will update now, seeing as I seem to be one of the few people where Horizon Zero Dawn isn't crashing.  ::)
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on September 06, 2020, 11:25:57 AM
I just updated to 2004 this morning. It waited until 1am last night to say "hey there is an update.. want to start it now", just as I was going to bed lol. Luckily it doesnt just start the upgrade like it used to.

So far everything seems the same as before. Only thing I had to change was the monitor colour system. It must have reset it to the default.

I'm only 30 minutes in to using it, so there is time for all hell to break loose yet  :fingers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on September 07, 2020, 07:57:23 AM
I'm all updated now too and nothing obviously different from the update.  Although its hard to say, had a lot of problems with the photos app not opening photos, Windows thinking a file on a network drive is still open when its not, but I think these are just general Windows stupidity rather than this update specifically.  ::)

When it comes to gaming, nothing obviously any different to before.

I must say having spent three days mostly on Windows as I was playing with Gigapixel AI upscaling, I HATE Windows.  When even simple tasks like opening a photo from a network drive takes a few second vs practically instant on Linux.  I found myself having to SSH into my server to rename or delete files/folder, as Windows thought they were still open for no good reason after closing.  Everything is just so much harder on Windows 10, I don't remember it being nearly this bad on 7.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on September 07, 2020, 11:52:03 AM
Everything is just so much harder on Windows 10, I don't remember it being nearly this bad on 7.

I agree on that.

I think MS need to make feature updates separate to security/fixes updates for Windows 10.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: gt94sss2 on September 07, 2020, 04:22:17 PM
I think they have now and your only forced to have a feature update when your current version is reaching the end of its supported period.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on September 07, 2020, 04:39:25 PM
Its the fact they slowly are moving everything over to UWP and its such a vastly inferior platform.  Networking options are now spread so far across the OS and the UWP version of the IP configuration panel wont even let you enter a static IP address without a gateway or DNS.  ???  (I have dual LAN at the moment so Internet goes over Gigabit and a dedicated NAS VLAN goes over a 5Gbit USB adapter)

I guess I should learn some powershell, that might make things a little easier to force, but its the fact I can't do simple things that used to be so much easier in the UI.

The Windows 7 photo viewer was fast and efficient, the Windows 10 Photo viewer sometimes works.  Thumbnailing itself in the OS seems hit and miss, on Linux I set thumbnails to go into a RAM drive so they are wiped every reboot because they waste a metric ton of space and my CPU is fast so its not like thumbnailing a folders contents takes long.  I have a cron job on the NAS to wipe out Thumbs.db periodically in case Windows rudely does the nasty, but I shouldn't HAVE to do that.

In their quest to make things easier for novices (did anyone even ask for that?) they've made it a complete joke for people with specific use cases.  My mum has never stopped grumbling since going to Win10, there is nothing she needed improving on 7.  I'd have moved her to Linux years ago but that's still just a little bit too much of a transition for her.

I've probably missed a ton of other annoyances.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on September 09, 2020, 10:56:40 AM
SSD trim has now been fixed with latest Windows update.. so I have set my trim to occur monthly now  :fingers:
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on September 09, 2020, 12:46:26 PM
The main annoyance for me when it comes to the windows updater program is I've had to exclude quality of life updates because it keeps trying to update my nvidia driver, when I use geforce to update it manually.

The annoyance about nvidia drivers is they keep updating the driver when new games come out. But they also start changing things too. So the mind set is when you find a good stable driver, unless you want to play the latest games then don't update. But windows is always trying to force the update.

If there was a way to block the nvidia update I'd switch it back on.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on September 09, 2020, 07:55:26 PM
Have you tried this? :fingers:

https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/help/3183922/how-to-temporarily-prevent-a-windows-update-from-reinstalling-in-windo
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on September 10, 2020, 11:29:08 AM
Thank you for the info @parkdale

I used that program to hide the nvidia driver it kept trying to install.

Interestingly it was the same version of the driver that had tried to install 2+ years ago. When I was searching around the net I noticed the driver seems to try and install on systems that dont have any nvidia products. It sounds like its gone rogue  :)

For people using Windows 10 Pro version I used the group policy editor to set the 'Configure Automatic Updates' to 2 so it notifys me of the updates and I have to tick a box to install it. So it seems they changed things along the way probably to address the situation I was having. I think it just means I have to manually take a look at the Windows Update regularly to keep an eye on downloads.

The way I was blocking the nvidia driver before was using a group policy called 'Do not include drivers with Windows updates'. I had disabled it. So that blocked any driver that wasn't associated with Microsoft. The problem was it wasn't just blocking nvidia. It was blocking all my other devices, including Intel drivers etc. So I set that back to Not Configured, which was its default state.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: parkdale on September 10, 2020, 01:25:48 PM
I had a bit of a "Major Clanger" moment a few weeks ago, whilst trying to uninstall the last remaining Kaspersky program, Revo uninstaller has a scanner for gathering all affected reg keys.
So I hit the nuclear option :-[ bang went my Office activation and Windows 10 pro as well :-X on reboot it triggered the Nvidia driver you mentioned, so I let it update anyway then applied the latest version over the top.
So ... don't try this at home :blush: still Kaspersky has all gone now :fingers:

Office activation was already backed up... just copied back the C:/windows/system32/Spp folder... job done.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on September 11, 2020, 11:10:24 PM
I agree on that.

I think MS need to make feature updates separate to security/fixes updates for Windows 10.

They do on enterprise LTSC.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on September 11, 2020, 11:11:35 PM
The main annoyance for me when it comes to the windows updater program is I've had to exclude quality of life updates because it keeps trying to update my nvidia driver, when I use geforce to update it manually.

The annoyance about nvidia drivers is they keep updating the driver when new games come out. But they also start changing things too. So the mind set is when you find a good stable driver, unless you want to play the latest games then don't update. But windows is always trying to force the update.

If there was a way to block the nvidia update I'd switch it back on.

There is a way to disable device driver updates as part of windows update, I will post how tomorrow if I remember to do it.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Bowdon on September 12, 2020, 11:19:07 AM
There is a way to disable device driver updates as part of windows update, I will post how tomorrow if I remember to do it.

When I was looking around on a way to block device drivers I noticed there is a way to put the hardware id of the device in so it blocks drivers for that manufacturer. The only problem is it will also block non-windows update ways to install it too. So I wouldn't be able to manually download the driver from the nvidia website or have geforce install it as it blocks the hardware id universally, which is a bit extreme in my view. They should have just restricted it to the windows updater. There is also a tick box when inputting the hardware id that will actively remove any currently installed matched hardware device drivers from the system.

Is this what you was going to say, or is there another way?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on September 12, 2020, 01:52:15 PM
Ok so there is two methods I am aware off.

The first way is via group policies.

I dont have a windows 10 device powered up right now but this guide seems to have the method in written form.

https://www.groovypost.com/howto/disable-automatic-hardware-driver-updates-on-windows-10/

Scroll to this part of the guide "Computer Configuration > Administrative Templates > Windows Components > Windows Update"

There is also an option inside the system part of legacy control panel where you can choose to not download device driver updates, this I think also works but the group policy method is for sure the way to go.

The method you found with id's seems very hacky I wouldnt go that route, the official microsoft supported way is via group policy editor and wont affect manual updating from the hardware vendor.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: busterboy on September 12, 2020, 08:54:18 PM
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: Chrysalis on September 12, 2020, 10:43:06 PM
yep thank you busterboy, thats the system control panel method.

I have never heard of the id hacking method before today, I think either the control panel method or GPO is fine, but I would stay away from hacking driver id's.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on November 03, 2020, 11:41:43 AM
Have been avoiding the 2004 update on my main Ryzen-5, Win 10 Home, desktop PC for weeks, has remained optional until yesterday when it decided to install itself and was awaiting a restart to complete.

Having completed the installation, started to look for the unwanted side effects which MS invariably incorporate for free.

First observation, signing in to my RPi's via VNC, 2 on local network, 2 remotely, request passwords every time even though the "remember PW" boxes are ticked, was not the case previously, only had to supply PW once or after any configuration changes.
Win network & sharing settings have been checked, nothing has changed from pre update.

Hardly fatal but annoying, any ideas on how to restore previous VNC/RPi sign in procedure without uninstalling the Win 2004 update ?
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: petef on November 03, 2020, 12:53:08 PM
Have been avoiding the 2004 update on my main Ryzen-5, Win 10 Home, desktop PC for weeks, has remained optional until yesterday when it decided to install itself and was awaiting a restart to complete.

Having completed the installation, started to look for the unwanted side effects which MS invariably incorporate for free.

First observation, signing in to my RPi's via VNC, 2 on local network, 2 remotely, request passwords every time even though the "remember PW" boxes are ticked, was not the case previously, only had to supply PW once or after any configuration changes.
Win network & sharing settings have been checked, nothing has changed from pre update.

Hardly fatal but annoying, any ideas on how to restore previous VNC/RPi sign in procedure without uninstalling the Win 2004 update ?

You don't say which VNC client you are using. I prefer RealVNC but the point is that you could experiment with others.
Title: Re: Windows 10 Version 2004 released
Post by: tiffy on November 03, 2020, 12:56:46 PM
Found a solution to the VNC PW not being remembered issue here:
https://help.realvnc.com/hc/en-us/articles/360004223231-VNC-Viewer-is-no-longer-remembering-my-passwords-

Used "Workaround 2", re-named the PW files, they are re-created again at first device login and are remembered.

"petef" reply while compiling this post acknowledged.