Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: crd945 on May 04, 2020, 10:34:58 AM
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Hi everyone,
I recently upgraded my broadband (to EE Fibre max 2, 300mbps/50mbps, G.fast FTTC @ 130m from the cabinet) and was told not to unplug the modem during this period as the DLM will be monitoring my connection stability. I had a couple questions:
I have a separate modem (Openreach MT992 modem) and router. While I understand turning the modem off and on during this 10 day period is not recommended, does the same apply to the Router?
Does this process really take 10 days?
Are there any signs (other than 10 days passing) that will indicate when my connection has "settled"?
Thanks very much!
Chris
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No, it doesn't apply to router, that's one of the benefits of having two separate devices...
You can reboot the router as many times as you like and the DLM won't know anything about it...
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There is no 10 day training period.
That's just nonsense spewed out by ISP's.
10 day training only ever existed on ADSL lines.
With FTTC and G.Fast the DLM is in full swing immediately.
Your line syncs at the full rate immediately.
You can reboot the router as much as you like.
The modem shouldn't be turned off overnight.
The modem is locked and gives you no stats anyway so never any need to reboot it.
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I wouldn't say its nonsense, they are using it to accommodate for the fact that if you had a DLM reset it may take a while to find your lines stable settings such as removing interleaving.
It might not strictly be 10 days, could happen in 48 hours, but its easier for them to stick to the 10 day for all DSL connections than to confuse none technically minded customers and get callbacks from people because their line took longer than usual to stabalise.
There's also the fact DLM gets fiddled with. Recently for example it seems to be far more aggressive about putting interleaving on ECI lines and not wanting to take it off again.
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Thank for your replies.
The OpenReach engineer reset DLM on Saturday morning, and since then my speed has been very stable at 292-293mbps down / 47-48mbps upload According to speedtest.net (using a consistent server). Have tested it morning, afternoon and evening, and it’s always been the same since Saturday AM.
It sounds like there isn’t any sensitivity to rebooting my router given I have a separate modem, which is good to know.
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I wouldn't say its nonsense, they are using it to accommodate for the fact that if you had a DLM reset it may take a while to find your lines stable settings such as removing interleaving.
It might not strictly be 10 days, could happen in 48 hours, but its easier for them to stick to the 10 day for all DSL connections than to confuse none technically minded customers and get callbacks from people because their line took longer than usual to stabalise.
There's also the fact DLM gets fiddled with. Recently for example it seems to be far more aggressive about putting interleaving on ECI lines and not wanting to take it off again.
It is nonsense.
The 10 day training period only every existed on the ADSL DLM.
When FTTC launched all lines defaulted to fastpath immediately, with DLM putting the line on the fastest, wide open profile from day 1.
It was only later when G.INP was rolled out to Huawei cabinets that it could then take around 48 hours for G.INP to be applied.
It could actually take weeks or months in some cases for G.INP to be applied.
It's only in the last couple years (many years after FTTC launched) that the DLM can take a little longer to optimise a line with lower SNRM (dB) profiles on Huawei cabinets.
It's even more recent that ECI lines default to Interleaving and can take 48 hours to go to fastpath.
The 10 day training period has been quoted by ISP's for FTTC since launch.
There has never been a 10 day training period on FTTC.
That message wasn't kept to stop confusing customers because the DLM had optimisations to do anyway so it's easier just to keep it there.
DLM making optimisations to FTTC lines after activation only happened years later.
FTTC lines always started at the full potential sync speed with DLM acting on a line immediately.
It was just a convenient excuse to fob off customers for the 1st 10 days.
With MaxDSL the process was very different.
Maximum Stable Rate. (MSR) - Training / Stabilisation Period.
During the first 10 days on MAX details of your logon/sync events are recorded in an Event Collector which every 15 minutes then sends this information to RAMBO.
RAMBO collates events from all users and analyses each users data over a 10 day period to find the Maximum Stable Rate (MSR) for their particular line. The MSR is set from the lowest achieved rate over this 10 day period rounded down to the nearest 0.5Mb. A notification after this period is sent to the RAP profile and your ISP.
The 10 day training period is often referred to as the "Stabilisation Period", and will only commence once a line has been in sync for 15 mins or more - not necessarily the date from when the line is maxed. There is a rolling 10 day period which allows flexibility if for some reason sync is not attained during the immediate period after the line being maxed (such as holidays and the router is switched off).
There's been a lot of talk/hype about the MSR, but in day to day use it doesn't really do much as its main purpose is to set your Fault Threshold Rate.
Your MSR will generally stay the same throughout MAXdsl, although a BTw engineer can request the MSR process can be restarted. There has also been some rumours that the MSR process can be restarted during migration but this is not the case. particularly in the when of migrating between 2 IPStream ISPs.
There is no such thing on FTTC, at all.
The DLM is in full swing from day 1.
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How do you know if / when G.inp or fastpath are enabled? I believe I’m on a relatively new huawei cabinet
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With G.Fast there is even less reason for them to quote a 10 day training period.
G.INP/Vectoring are enabled by default immediately.
I believe lines might even start at 3dB target SNRM on G.Fast, so no further optimisations are possible.
The DLM would only slow a line down if it was deemed unstable.
It would give the best possible sync speed immediately after activation.
As mentioned above the is no 10 day training period on FTTC or G.Fast.
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G.Fast works differently to FTTC - so switching the router off when in a dual box setup does have an impact on the line and connection rate - see my earlier thread here - https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23616.msg399276.html#msg399276
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G.Fast works differently to FTTC - so switching the router off when in a dual box setup does have an impact on the line and connection rate - see my earlier thread here - https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23616.msg399276.html#msg399276
What we are talking about is DLM, rebooting the router in this case is identical to reconnecting the PPP session, this has zero bearing on DLM.
What you are describing in that thread is a PPP reconnect changing the throughput cap, that has nothing to do with the line itself or the connection rate other than the fact it is derived from the connection rate.
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how do you know your line length?
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You either get a helpful engineer to measure it for you, or you work out the most likely route and measure it on Google maps, but for obvious reasons this can be way out. I initially worked mine out via Google maps, and later an engineer confirmed I was pretty much correct, but I'm only about 500 meters from the cabinet.
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im about 280 paces following the pavement to it, not certain the cable follows the same route it is all underground