Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: niemand on April 19, 2020, 11:34:32 PM
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Queried something with @OpenreachHelp on Twitter today. As part of the conversation was told this gem:
HI Carl, I Hope you're well and keeping safe. It's not possible to have multiple FTTP lines into the one property I'm afraid. ^Frazer
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Hmm . . . :hmm:
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Hmm . . . :hmm:
My thoughts exactly. The checker says that a new ONT can be ordered which implies it's possible to get a second FTTP service at the same address.
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Hi
The checker doesn't appear to know if an existing service is at the property or not, just seems to report on the basis there isn't.
Also you can understand why they wouldn't want to install additional fibres to a single property as they don't tend to install with much spare capacity, i.e there may be an 8 way port at the DP that serves 8 properties, okay not all will take up FTTP at this time so there may be spare ports so someone could take 2 or 3 even of those to the same property, but later at copper switch off when those properties have to join the fibre network they find there are no connections available at the DP.
The easier technological solution is of course multi port ONTs, but still this creates a potential problem if Openreach only wish to share a single fibre between a maximum number of premises.
The other reason not to supply it; why would a non commercial property require 2 or more fibre connections? If someone needs that much capacity they should pay for a leased line or go with another fibre provider (other than Openreach) in the case of over build as clearly it isn't typical domestic use.
Regards
Phil
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Hi
The checker doesn't appear to know if an existing service is at the property or not, just seems to report on the basis there isn't.
The checker results tell you there's an ONT with an active service if you have FTTP.
It's usually smart enough to know if you need a new ONT or have a 4 port ONT already.
Those with a 1 port ONT will see..
ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.
or if you have a 4 port ONT
ONT exists with active service. A spare port is available. A new ONT may be ordered.
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Hi
Not saying that for my address, don't think it ever did. It went to UG Proven Clear at time of installation but neighbours without FTTP currently show 'Single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed Not Evaluated'. Nothing about service active for me, and I'm on FTTP :)
I suspect there are many inconsistencies on their database, what is normal for some aren't necessarily true for what others see.
Edit: I wonder if I see these particular results because I don't have a telephone number or land line anymore and it is just an address search and not a telephone number search?
Regards
Phil
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Edit: I wonder if I see these particular results because I don't have a telephone number or land line anymore and it is just an address search and not a telephone number search?
Yes, that might influence the result.
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Think of the reasons why people would want 2+.
Either redundancy or that capacity of one isnt enough, typically a consumer wouldnt have either of these two reasons.
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Openreach are happy to provide multiple lines.
You just need to ask the right people.
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Hi
Openreach are happy to provide multiple lines.
You just need to ask the right people.
Not what you stated when you started this thread. So the reason for you starting this thread was? There is enough click bate around on the Internet, we don't need more thank you. :no:
Regards
Phil
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Queried something with @OpenreachHelp on Twitter today. As part of the conversation was told this gem:
They're talking out of their rear end as I already have 3 FTTP services running off a single ONT (4 port). Even if you have a single port ONT there's no technical reason why they cannot provision additional lines assuming no capacity issues - obviously another ONT & fibre run will be req'd, unless they're willing to install a new 4 port ONT. I suspect the person who replied to you probably isn't trained properly.
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Not what you stated when you started this thread. So the reason for you starting this thread was? There is enough click bate around on the Internet, we don't need more thank you. :no:
Pretty sure he was pointing out the nonsense being spewed by OpenReach on Twitter.
Most of us already know they will happily provide more than 1 FTTP service to a single dwelling.
Hardly clickbait is it.
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Pretty sure he was pointing out the nonsense being spewed by OpenReach on Twitter.
Most of us already know they will happily provide more than 1 FTTP service to a single dwelling.
Hardly clickbait is it.
That is not how I read it though, and I didn't know they happily provide more than one service, I took it at face value that they didn't or that they might have done but no longer will i.e no 4 port ONTs anymore.
Remember not everyone that visits here will have in depth knowledge or a background of xDSL, FTTP and networking to be able to pick out fact from fiction or what realise a post is meant as irony or sarcasm which may or may not have been the intention of starting a new topic with the heading "Openreach don't provision multiple FTTP services to one property".
Even now we don't know for sure if they do or do not provide multiple services at this time. :lol: Maybe if you have a 4 port Hub they will, but has anyone got a second fibre installed to end up with 2 or more single ONTs?
Regards
Phil
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Edit: I wonder if I see these particular results because I don't have a telephone number or land line anymore and it is just an address search and not a telephone number search?
It's odd that your result doesn't indicate an active ONT at your address. I went down the FTTPoD route and went live over a year ago (waiting for the regrade mess to be cleared up so I can get the gigabit tier soon).
My address returns the following result:
Single Dwelling Unit Residential OH Feed with no anticipated issues.
ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.
Another address checker, which requires a login of which I have one for, also tells me a little more about my address, and appears to be allowing me to place an order if I wish to do so.
https://i.imgur.com/XPu3gAJ.png
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Hi
It's odd that your result doesn't indicate an active ONT at your address. I went down the FTTPoD route and went live over a year ago (waiting for the regrade mess to be cleared up so I can get the gigabit tier soon).
So have you those results just from using your postcode/house number? Do you have an active copper BT line? I can't be sure but I think at some point it did say I had an active service on the old checker after shortly going live on FTTP whilst I was able to do a telephone number lookup on the checker. (Had a few weeks overlap of the old VDSL/telephone line).
I suppose it doesn't really matter what the checker is saying, it doesn't undo the fact I do have an active FTTP service, just seems to show there are some inconsistencies with what data or how that data is shown on the various checkers.
Regards
Phil
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Even now we don't know for sure if they do or do not provide multiple services at this time. :lol: Maybe if you have a 4 port Hub they will, but has anyone got a second fibre installed to end up with 2 or more single ONTs?
Yes.
That's why the checker returns
ONT exists with active service. No spare ports are available. A new ONT may be ordered.
I've seen a few examples of this, with 2 x 1 port ONT's.
They used to feed 4 fibres to the external CSP. I'm not sure if that's still the case.
If I recall correctly psychopomp1 has 4 fibres to his external CSP, with a single fibre running 3 FTTP lines on a 4 port ONT.
He could in theory get another 3 ONT's.
Openreach have gone back to using external CSP's though I've no idea how many fibres are in the feed from the DP to the CSP now.
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Hi
So have you those results just from using your postcode/house number? Do you have an active copper BT line? I can't be sure but I think at some point it did say I had an active service on the old checker after shortly going live on FTTP whilst I was able to do a telephone number lookup on the checker. (Had a few weeks overlap of the old VDSL/telephone line).
I suppose it doesn't really matter what the checker is saying, it doesn't undo the fact I do have an active FTTP service, just seems to show there are some inconsistencies with what data or how that data is shown on the various checkers.
Regards
Phil
I used the address lookup (postcode and house number). I don't have an active copper BT line since a week or two after the FTTPoD connection went live. I guess it's just a matter of inconsistent data for your address.
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Never been accused of click baiting before. Should've monetised!
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Hi
I used the address lookup (postcode and house number). I don't have an active copper BT line since a week or two after the FTTPoD connection went live. I guess it's just a matter of inconsistent data for your address.
Thanks for the info, so definitely inconsistencies then. I just hope the FTTP doesn't stop working as it might be the case when Openreach are asked to repair it they deny I've ever had a FTTP service as the computer says No ???
Regards
Phil
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Never been accused of click baiting before. Should've monetised!
:lol:
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Yeah I have 4 fibre strands coming into the external CSP. Only 1 (blue in colour) is hooked up the 4 port ONT, 3 are kept as spares all nicely coiled up. This means I could (in theory) have 3 additional ONTs without the need for any new blown fibre.
(https://i.postimg.cc/5yQCv6YG/IMG-002.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/fSZyQWvj)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yYqPjH19/IMG-0360.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/c6mw1P84)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J4bQd20F/IMG-0361.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/Wh1rdSMm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/C1zNPMnC/IMG-0362.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/1n1w4QH4)
(https://i.postimg.cc/859bq8L2/IMG-0363.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/k6N8bp1s)
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Yeah I have 4 fibre strands coming into the external CSP. Only 1 (blue in colour) is hooked up the 4 port ONT, 3 are kept as spares all nicely coiled up. This means I could (in theory) have 3 additional ONTs without the need for any new blown fibre.
Thanks for the pictures.
In many cases people don't have spare fibres to their premise anyway, I don't, it is a single fibre from the DP run under ground with no outside connector box, in my case you can't see any indication from outside I have fibre. My install is the same as yours with the same conduit you have for the old telephone line, but my fibre comes into the house using the same hole behind the original conduit as the telephone wire, so it looks no different with no wires or fibre visible at all on the outside, a very neat job.
If my fibre breaks, they would need to pull out the broken one and pull in another fibre, although that task first time round took only minutes. We have here an 8 port connector at the DP amongst 5 properties, but I don't know if only 5 are lit or all of them are lit for use.
Technically of course it is possible to have more than one fibre, so question isn't whether it can be done, it is whether Openreach will do it and install two ONTs in the same house. End of the day it is purely an Openreach business decision rather than if technically possible, and if there is no fibre capacity they can add some of course at their or the customers costs.
Regards
Phil
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It's actually genuinely irritating how few ISPs are even remotely interested in selling FTTP right now, and how even fewer still sell above 76 Mb/s.
Some that would be selling it just aren't right now regardless of whether it requires a home visit or not.
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I was tempted to ask Zen when they plan to roll out 500 and 900 packages, but as I haven't seen an Openreach van in a month (not that I've been looking) it seems kinda pointless chasing it up right now.
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I agree. I wish there were more choices. At the moment I've stayed with Cerberus, but hope there's a bit more competitive monthly pricing next year. I can't go with BT Retail as I need a static IP range at the very least, which BT Retail don't offer. At least the activation/setup fee was waived though.
Now that it's finally live I'm pleased with the service. I'm also amazed that my wifi network is able to process an average of 400 to 500 megabits downstream (wifi generation 5, ac).
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I was tempted to ask Zen when they plan to roll out 500 and 900 packages, but as I haven't seen an Openreach van in a month (not that I've been looking) it seems kinda pointless chasing it up right now.
They were planning end of this month or early next. No idea now.
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I was tempted to ask Zen when they plan to roll out 500 and 900 packages, but as I haven't seen an Openreach van in a month (not that I've been looking) it seems kinda pointless chasing it up right now.
They're still working on the FTTP build despite the coronavirus.
I believe it's only the final connection they aren't doing as it requires entering the customers property.
3 OpenReach vans were in and around my street on Tuesday/Wednesday doing final checks on our FTTP build.
The OpenReach website updated sometime on Wednesday and now shows FTTP as being available to order.
The new BT Wholesale address checker still shows WBC FTTP as "Planned" so all BTW ISP's tell me I can't get FTTP.
I'm able to order 1000/115 from other ISP's but as above they wouldn't be able to install the final drop cable to my premises.
I'm in contract with Virgin till December anyway.
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This is the hardest part about self isolation for me, I can't go around hunting Openreach vans. ::)
Its not like I won't know, the DP is visible from the back garden and from past experience they are likely to park in view of the CCTV on the front when working on the chamber that feeds that DP.
I think its just being stuck inside making me even more stir crazy than usual, despite the fact I rarely go out anyway, especially in hayfever seasons.
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If my fibre breaks, they would need to pull out the broken one and pull in another fibre, although that task first time round took only minutes. We have here an 8 port connector at the DP amongst 5 properties, but I don't know if only 5 are lit or all of them are lit for use.
Regards
Phil
Only the ports that have a recognised NAD key against them will be lit, in other words only the premises you mention in your example, however all 8 ports will be spliced back to the splitter node and 'stumped'.