Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: dontasciime on March 07, 2020, 11:23:31 PM

Title: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 07, 2020, 11:23:31 PM
I would just like to have if at all possible some input from the knowledgable

I had FTTC enabled in 2012 I was with ADSL24

These are some stats I gained from the HG-612 modem shortly after install (engineer installed HG-612) but not the one I swapped to get stats

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32311 Kbps, Downstream rate = 100456 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      32311 kbps        100456 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        4.4 dBm          13.8 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.1     14.1    25.3     N/A    9.9     22.2    34.6

Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.1     14.0    25.2     N/A    9.9     22.2    34.6

        SNR Margin(dB):  9.6     11.1    13.6     N/A    11.4    11.4    11.7

         TX Power(dBm): -6.3    -28.2    3.9      N/A    11.0    7.4     7.4





22:58 26/07/2012


---------------

These are from 2015

---

14:45 04/07/2015


ATP>sh


BusyBox v1.9.1 (2010-10-15 17:59:06 CST) built-in shell (ash)
Enter 'help' for a list of built-in commands.

# xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Max:    Upstream rate = 28551 Kbps, Downstream rate = 80184 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 65766 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (0,95) (880,1195) (1984,2771)
DS: (32,859) (1216,1959) (2792,4083)
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream        Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:      28551 kbps         80184 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        4.4 dBm          13.8 dBm
============================================================================
  VDSL Band Status        U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.3     14.4    25.6     N/A    10.0    22.4    35.0

Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.3     14.3    25.5     N/A    10.0    22.4    35.0

        SNR Margin(dB):  10.5    10.0    9.9      N/A    6.4     6.4     6.6

         TX Power(dBm): -5.1    -30.9    3.9      N/A    11.0    7.4     7.4

#


----

and these from yesterday  from a zyxel  VMG1312-B10A

============================================================================
    VDSL Training Status:   Showtime
                    Mode:   VDSL2 Annex B
            VDSL Profile:   Profile 17a
            Traffic Type:   PTM Mode
             Link Uptime:   0 day: 0 hour: 12 minutes
============================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.202 Mbps       53.739 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     20.000 Mbps       53.643 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        6.7 dB            6.3 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              8 ms
          Transmit Power:        4.1 dBm           4.1 dBm
           Receive Power:       -7.0 dBm           0.3 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols       3.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:       11.1 dB           14.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23.361 Mbps       63.543 Mbps
============================================================================
      VDSL Band Status    U0      U1      U2      U3      D1      D2      D3
  Line Attenuation(dB):  0.2    14.5    25.1     N/A     9.6    21.4    34.4   
Signal Attenuation(dB):  0.5    14.5    25.2     N/A    11.5    21.2    34.3   
        SNR Margin(dB):  9.8     6.7     6.6     N/A     6.3     6.3     6.3   
   Transmit Power(dBm):- 6.7   -30.0     3.7     N/A    11.0     7.2     7.6   
============================================================================

            VDSL Counters

           Downstream        Upstream
Since Link time = 12 min 59 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 25 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      25      25
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Latest 1 day time = 13 min 25 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      25      25
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:      0      0
CRC:      0      0
ES:      0      0
SES:      0      0
UAS:      0      0
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
Total time = 13 min 25 sec
FEC:      35      20
CRC:      0      2
ES:      0      2
SES:      0      0
UAS:      25      25
LOS:      0      0
LOF:      0      0
LOM:      0      0
============================================================================

         


The above (i only plugged in zyxel (bought 2nd hand on ebay recently) just to get stats as I have been using the ECI modem for the last 5 months

When sync started going south again last year 2019 (recently) I changed my engineer installed hg-612 for another hg 612 then found out cab was ECI so bought b- focus v-2Fub/r Rev.B   and left it on    11-Sep-2019 02:29   to try and get sync rate back up  in case both my hg 612 had gone faulty this stayed synced at 60143 from    11-Sep-2019 02:29 till 24th jan 2020 when i had a powercut and upon the power being restored modem was synced at 68438 this only last till 27th jan 2020 and then it dropped to 52071 on the 27th jan 2017 as can be seen in attached image (if they are working )       

Current ISP is zen

This is what adsl checker says now



I'd just like some advice as to what my line should be able to actually do now as it just keep syncing lower and lower   and anything I can do as I don't want a charge from  sfi2 visit  as zen are saying there is no fault when they do their line test and they'll book an engineer as long as I agree that a no fault found by engineer means I have to pay.

OR install in 2012 installed hg-612 as well as a new filtered faceplate   with tel and rj111 sockets  (same one still) I do not run any extension only phone in house is on same socket and I replaced the phone recently as well in case old one had issues.  I used a billion 7800n with this for many years until it started having trouble so I replaced it with r7000 with xwrt-vortex firmware and also bought another 7800n new which i have tried as well

Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 08, 2020, 12:13:52 AM
I doubt there is anything you can do, this is just basically crosstalk as more people have upgraded.  A lot of us are in the same boat.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: kitz on March 08, 2020, 09:52:29 AM
In similar situation as you - as are a lot of us who got fttc in the early days - and seeing the effects of crosstalk.   :(
 
When I first got vdsl my max attainable headline speed was ~110Mbps. I'm currently syncing at ~ 66 Mbps and it's even lower with most other modems... so that's a loss of 44Mbps from my headline speed.  My most noticeable drop was  ~11Mbps loss when my immediate neighbour upgraded from adsl2+ to fttc.


I notice you are interleaved which can knock off another 4-5 Mbps.  :/

The VMG8324 gives me ~3Mbps more sync speed than the HG612 due to an internal noise filter which usually means less errors on most lines.  Despite being on an ECI cab, the BCM based chipsets work better on my line than the Lantiq VRX-268 in the ECI modem  (last time I checked ~6Mb more).  The VMG1312-B10A also has a similar filter so it may help reduce your error rate  and if so interleaving may be removed.   Keep an eye on the errors - particularly the error seconds. 
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 08, 2020, 09:58:48 AM
Thanks


The zyxel I bought that I used in bridge mode with the r7000 had 13 drops from a short test and the 12 minutes it was up at beginning of test there were FEC errors if that has any bearing also an issue with the r7000 internet led was going out but still had internet but then seeing it go orange again as it's establishing a PPPoE connection again meant I can't be using that (i really just wanted to see stats as my hg-612 that I uploaded custom firmware to seemed to not work last time I tried it  not sure if it had it's firmware upgraded via OR (if that really was a thing) anyway seemed easier to just buy a second hand zyxel to see stats but it appears it's broken for use

Zen also say they have tested for crosstalk  and there is none :*

As far as I am concerned now I'd just like to get back to above what my minimum is supposed to be 60 ish
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: niemand on March 08, 2020, 10:00:14 AM
This is almost exactly how mine went.

Started at 100/30 attainable, went to 65/20 by the time I left FTTC.

Vectoring would restore it but that's unlikely now. FTTP is where the money is going now. No worries about crosstalk on that  :)
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: mofa2020 on March 08, 2020, 10:03:23 AM
I lost ~30mb due to cross talk.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 08, 2020, 10:49:04 AM
The different colours are samples from 2013, 2015, 2018 and 2019, showing how the line stats have dramatically reduced.
(https://csdprojects.co.uk/forums/Line Deterioration 2013 2015 2018 2019.png)

2013 Digital Region (zero crosstalk, uncapped line):
Max:   Upstream rate = 34761 Kbps, Downstream rate = 118308 Kbps
Path:   0, Upstream rate = 35820 Kbps, Downstream rate = 99999 Kbps
(https://www.speedtest.net/result/2637675213.png)

2015 Openreach (still zero crosstalk as I was probably the only customer on the cabinet):
Max:   Upstream rate = 28837 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90764 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps
(https://www.speedtest.net/result/4922469039.png)

2019 Openreach (hello crosstalk):
Max:   Upstream rate = 28789 Kbps, Downstream rate = 54128 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69542 Kbps
(https://www.speedtest.net/result/8083930719.png)

2020 Openreach
No stats but sync rate had dropped to 62.24Mbit.  I did improve it to 66Mbit by changing to a Lantiq chipset modem, then up to 73.9Mbit by using OpenWRT on said modem so I could tweak the SNR down closer to 3dB.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: jelv on March 08, 2020, 11:42:10 AM
From soon after my install:

Max:    Upstream rate = 42458 Kbps, Downstream rate = 125020 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79987 Kbps


Just now:

Max:   Upstream rate = 21037 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78028 Kbps
Bearer:   0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: mofa2020 on March 08, 2020, 11:46:12 AM
So why vectoring is not used yet! unless OR is happy with the cross-talk as infrastructure can not hold high speeds for massive numbers maybe!!!!! :hmm:
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 08, 2020, 12:30:02 PM
VMG8324-B10A   I bought one I assumed without checking it that it will go into bridge mode to work along side my r7000

  In case it's the dual band VMG8924-B10A  sent is that the same (just about to check specs now) I assumed it was the same but with 2.4 and 5 Ghz and  AC instead of N eg just a dual band version eg with the same internal  filter
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: niemand on March 08, 2020, 12:47:14 PM
So why vectoring is not used yet! unless OR is happy with the cross-talk as infrastructure can not hold high speeds for massive numbers maybe!!!!! :hmm:

Openreach aren't interested in spending the money for vectoring. They are deploying FTTP now. This is all people are going to get.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 08, 2020, 02:51:20 PM
I'd love to get FTTP but I just can't see them spending the money in my town
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: ktz392837 on March 08, 2020, 03:39:46 PM
From my experience a 40% drop in sync speed due to crosstalk is not unheard of. 

Also on an ECI cab and swear by the Zyxel 8324/1312 B10A.  Don't expect a miracle but for my line it keeps the error rate significantly lower and therefore stops banding/>6db syncing.

I do seem to get a burst of errors that nothing can help with every couple of weeks and I end up on an interleaved connection anyway for a couple of weeks this then flip flops.  This started a few months ago.

We can all hope the upcoming Ginp trial for ECI will help.  It should cut down errors and give a bit of a sync speed improvement if you are lucky.  If ginp works we can then hope for 3db profiles.  Don't hold you breathe though we have been waiting for ginp for 5 years and they haven't got it to work on ECI.

I think he trial is due to start middle of next week if nothing has changed.  Hopefully we will get reports from users who are lucky enough to be picked.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: mofa2020 on March 08, 2020, 04:25:55 PM
Openreach aren't interested in spending the money for vectoring. They are deploying FTTP now. This is all people are going to get.

Yes but that would take time and subscribers are losing speeds, also I saw here that FTTP is on demand only and people would pay for installation to get the higher stable speeds without suffering from FTTC issues so that would be unfair for some people who can not get it and OR keeps vectoring off..

Yes, that is possible, and is actually available in UK as FTTP on demand, mainly offered to business customers, however if your pocket is deep enough this can be done for home users as well, just expensive.

It is "FTTP on Demand" and does not come from the fibre at the FTTC cabinet but from a nearby (hopefully) Fibre Aggregation Node which links back to the exchange. As it is a custom installation prices can be high, 10K to 20K GBP or more unless the node is very close in which case you may pay under 10K so not generally economically viable for residential customers. :o
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 08, 2020, 04:29:05 PM
I've just asked Cerberus for a quote for Fod to see what the damage is

they for fttc LLU indicate 70.88 (wish regulatory body could step in and fix this illusion)

In excess of £3,600 doesn't cut it though as It is likely to be further away than the cab or as I suspect on the opposite side of estate next to factories for businesses. So pipe dream 101

 

 
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: j0hn on March 08, 2020, 04:56:55 PM
Thanks


The zyxel I bought that I used in bridge mode with the r7000 had 13 drops from a short test and the 12 minutes it was up at beginning of test there were FEC errors if that has any bearing

None at all.

Every modem will have FEC errors as you are interleaved.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 08, 2020, 05:50:49 PM
It's been a while since I looked at overall stats in the bigger picture  to take things I thought I knew for granted. I after saying it, thought about and  thought nah forward error correction is fine

As kitz mentioned the error seconds and I then sort of remembered that being more important. I've been a member,lurked  here since 2012 with yesterday being my first ever post here iirc  and used to just read what those with knowledge of it all used to say in the hope some of it stuck but I've not been looking recently and I'm older now with recall issues and like homer all the new stuff pushes the old stuff out

I just know  the zyxel had issues keeping connection 15 disconnects (2 of those zen mentioned to me are def loss of sync) eg 1st me powering off eci modem to plugin zyxel, and me powering off zyxel to plug in 1 of my 3 hg 612 modems, so I assume the other 13 were just  PPPoE drops from the zyxel+netgear r7000 combination when I briefly tried it for at most say 15-30 minutes I  took stats at around 12-15 minute mark of connecting.

Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Chrysalis on March 08, 2020, 07:07:20 PM
loss of circa 40% headline speed, is not that unusual, it matches up with testing done by the major CP's prior to VDSL been a public product, there is documentation on the internet showing this.

Of course technology exists to mitigate this, but sadly Openreach decided to not deploy it in their commercial areas.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Dave2150 on March 08, 2020, 09:05:11 PM
loss of circa 40% headline speed, is not that unusual, it matches up with testing done by the major CP's prior to VDSL been a public product, there is documentation on the internet showing this.

Of course technology exists to mitigate this, but sadly Openreach decided to not deploy it in their commercial areas.

The progress of technology will mean no more xDSL one day. Then no line stats to play around with, just FTTP on or off. Can't wait :)
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 08, 2020, 11:19:27 PM
If only Bt would get rid of the aluminum
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: meritez on March 09, 2020, 12:45:47 AM
OR install in 2012 installed hg-612 as well as a new filtered faceplate   with tel and rj111 sockets  (same one still) I do not run any extension only phone in house is on same socket and I replaced the phone recently as well in case old one had issues.  I used a billion 7800n with this for many years until it started having trouble so I replaced it with r7000 with xwrt-vortex firmware and also bought another 7800n new which i have tried as well

Any chance you could remove the filtered faceplate and try a microfilter in the test socket.

Is the filtered faceplate a mk1, mk2 or mk3?
(https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/images/vdslfaceplatefront.JPG)

I doubt it's a MK4:
(https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/images/VDSLMK4NTE5CMK22019FRONT.JPG)

I have seen a lot of filtered faceplates go bad, the communication provider I work for actually removes the filtered faceplates and installs a perfectly decent vdsl microfilter.
It saves asking an end user to unscrew the older filtered faceplate, and a possible SFI charge, as the SFI is only interested from the test socket.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 09, 2020, 04:24:03 AM
If only Bt would get rid of the aluminum

Are you sure you have aluminium?  I know my exchange side is partly aluminium but fairly sure from cabinet to house its all copper.
Once crosstalk comes in, I doubt it makes much difference.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 09, 2020, 09:11:44 AM
Well supposedly as  according to every engineer that has ever been here the story goes  in the 70s they skimped on the quality when they re did them. I know the line from pole to my house is copper,  pole is only 20 yards from my front door if that.






Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 09, 2020, 09:13:17 AM
@ Meritez

It's a Mk1  and I am using the test socket with a new filter currently

Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 09, 2020, 08:35:29 PM
Those that are using the VMG8324 are you using it as a modem/router or just as a modem with your other hardware.

If you are using it in bridge mode with your router are you ticking the setting to allow wan/lan on the ports and disabling all other features that haven't being auto disabled by putting it into bridge mode like any nat features/ upnp etc or anything that still looks like it is enabled when in bridged mode

I only used the Zyxel VMG1312-B10A for a short period of time(so can't recall where the settings are that I am on about without me plugging it in again) I  and set it up without internet as per settings Zen isp requires so that the device was ready to use when I got fed up waiting for the ECI and hopefully the DLM to step in and say right OK you've been synced at this for 30 days at a lower rate now so lets resync.

Anyways as i said above I ordered a new VMG8324 and am just curious what others are using it in conjunction with etc



Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dee.jay on March 10, 2020, 08:03:10 AM
Same story for me, I think I had 70 when I first had FTTC in 2012, I managed to get it up to 80 for a while, but 67 is now where it tops out on each line.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: PhilipD on March 10, 2020, 08:39:26 AM
Hi

Same thing happened here, at two different addresses in completely different cities, started off good and slowly got worse over time, managed to just maintain 80/20 in my current address before switching to FTTP.

The first address I was second on the cabinet, and SNR was about 13db I think from memory at 80/20, but in stages stepped down and I ended up sync'ing just under 80 before I moved house, the dslchecker also dropped as well putting max attainable at around 70 from 80. 

My current address VDSL had been around for a number of years before I moved in so I was kind of hoping less of a change over time, started off at 11db and ended up around 6-7db after 3 years before I moved to FTTP. During an area wide power cut at my current address with me on a UPS and I guess everyone else thrown off line, SNR jumped to 15db, so cross talk was accounting for a 50% drop in margin.

I always say with xDSL is it only gets worse over time, until you can jump to a different technology and if that is xDSL as well you start the downward spiral again.

Regards

Phil
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 10, 2020, 11:31:42 AM
So with my SNR now what should I be able to achieve.

Low on non impacted adsl checker indicates 61.8

Currently synced at 53483

Is it 63 for the lines stats I posted from the Zyxel
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 11, 2020, 03:01:19 AM
With your SNR now on an ECI cabinet, you're maxed out.
Even on a Huawei cabinet, it wouldn't aim for 3dM SNRm unless it was a very stable line.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 11, 2020, 10:05:43 AM
Why are Zen insisting when they check that there is no crosstalk?

and if the fallback isn't being reached is that cause for SFI2 to do anything

What about the possibility that when OR were in my street for 5 days (diff engineer each time)  in  a row or even previously swapped over the line to another address in my street (or is this just frustration paranoia)
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 11, 2020, 06:39:19 PM
Why are Zen insisting when they check that there is no crosstalk?

and if the fallback isn't being reached is that cause for SFI2 to do anything

What about the possibility that when OR were in my street for 5 days (diff engineer each time)  in  a row or even previously swapped over the line to another address in my street (or is this just frustration paranoia)

I don't know, an ISP has zero knowledge of crosstalk, its not something I believe even Openreach think about that much as that's what DLM is for.
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: kitz on March 11, 2020, 07:13:43 PM
Why are Zen insisting when they check that there is no crosstalk?

Zen are probably referring to the GEA Service Test run by Openreach which looks for obvious signs of REIN, Bridge Taps and Cross Talk based on your line stats, Hlog and QLN.
They will pick up very obvious and acute instances of certain tyes of errors depending upon steepness and repetitiveness of plotted curves.   

As regards to Cross-talk, there are 3 types of crosstalk: NeXT, FeXT and Alien noise.

Most of the reduction of speed over time on FTTC is due to FeXT.  Its sometimes often hard to see on QLN graphs and can take a trained eye to spot, because it usually causes a very shallow dish like effect in the bit load graph.   If you have a neighbouring line using similar tones to you, then you will both likely be using the same frequencies so nothing that much obvious shows in the graphs.   You spot it most when they go off line or resync as its effect is a rapid change in the SNRM.  It's easier to see crosstalk from neighbouring adsl lines as the dip tends to bottom  out where the adsl reach tones ends. 
FeXT affects the shortest loops the most...  and this is very true when it comes to what we mean when we talk about crosstalk.   Those lines which previously syc'd at 80Mbps are the ones which lose the most speed to crosstalk.

NeXT (nearend) is usually very local - its the 'home end' eg in your own cabling/copper pair. I'm not certain on this, but I 'think' it's NeXT that the GEA test picks up on.   

I most definitely am badly affected by crosstalk, yet the GEA test always shows "Not Detected" for Crosstalk.   
There is nothing Openreach can do about FeXT (bar using vectored DSLAMs), so if you are affected then its just bad luck.

I'm quite happy if for you to go back to Zen and say that the GEA test doesn't detect FeXT (Far End Crosstalk) because its true.   But then again there's stuff all they can do about it either :(
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: kitz on March 11, 2020, 07:34:23 PM
Well supposedly as  according to every engineer that has ever been here the story goes  in the 70s they skimped on the quality when they re did them. I know the line from pole to my house is copper,  pole is only 20 yards from my front door if that.

It's not so much they skimped on quality, but in the 70's copper was very expensive.   I think it peaked in the mid 70's - iirc something to do with the Vietnam war and oil embargoes.   Back then there was no reason not to use aluminium, it worked perfectly well for telephony.     They just never envisaged 30+ years later we'd all be wanting to use something called the Internet and DSL.  :ouch:
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: kitz on March 11, 2020, 07:42:46 PM
Those that are using the VMG8324 are you using it as a modem/router or just as a modem with your other hardware.

I use mine as a modem/router.   
I think on this forum we probably have a higher proportion using it in bridge mode than elsewhere, but based on MDWS days most people do seem to use it as an all in one.
 

Quote
If you are using it in bridge mode with your router


There's a tuturial here if it helps
https://kitz.co.uk/routers/zyxel_VMG8324-B10A_bridge.htm

Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: dontasciime on March 11, 2020, 10:06:55 PM
Thanks for the replies.

I'll have a look at that last link. I just set the 12  into bridge mode with the basic settings zen provided on the subject to get a connection. I then disabled as much stuff as I saw like wirleless  dhcp server etc.

I'm still waiting on the 8324 but tbh it appears that I am wasting my time now by the looks of it I can't even get my 60 sync back which was fine until the power cut on the 24th jan.

I wonder what is the point in the adsl checker clean / impacted and fallback stats if I cannot get isp/or to react to it. I understand I'm not going to see my 77:43 again but I thought there was a threshold that would enable me to have it maintained to the minimum standard showing
Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: ktz392837 on March 11, 2020, 11:30:30 PM
If you're below the handback threshold Zen should be doing something about it.  It is extremely poor if they are not especially being a supposedly premium ISP.

Imho below handback is a fault this in itself should mean no charge for engineer.  Make this clear.  What is opinion of Kitz and co on this?

When I got to the handback threshold with Plusnet they eventually recognised this and engineers were despatched and it was eventually sorted (note the plural) to my great satisfaction.

It is a gamble you could end up worse off.  You play the OR engineer roulette and the fact your rerouted line could be worse.    You may have to stand up to ISP / OR.

I am stuck on mobile so formatting of your stats is not great and I can't zoom in to screenshots enough but for your attenuation (14db?) I would expect more than what you are currently getting even for ECI. 

Title: Re: Had FTTC since 2012 with 79.999 now 53
Post by: Bowdon on March 11, 2020, 11:49:11 PM
I think we're all suffering from some form of cross talk these days.

FTTC is a victim of its own success.

When the older gentleman next door to me died, a young family moved in and a couple of weeks later signed up to Sky Fibre. I immediately lost around 10Mbps on my line.

When I started off on FTTC I used to be in the mid 70s. These days I'm at 53/54. We had a powercut last week and my house is on a different power circuit to next door and I got the power on first (for about an hour) and my sync speed shot up to 73. That lasted until the power went again, and when every house came back online I was back down to 53.

I'm still waiting for the Greater Manchester Combined Authority to get announcing the contract for FTTP connectivity. I got a feeling by the time FTTP reaches me I'll be crawling along at ADSL speeds  :'(