Kitz Forum

Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: adslmax on February 13, 2020, 10:18:26 AM

Title: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on February 13, 2020, 10:18:26 AM
Must be good news for those on ECI cabinets and also Kitz too.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/02/openreach-uk-trial-finally-brings-g-inp-to-eci-fttc-broadband.html
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Bowdon on February 13, 2020, 02:05:51 PM
I'm on an ECI cabinet and speeds have been gradually dropping over time. They especially dropped when the next door neighbour joined FTTC. I think their phone wire uses the same cable mine does from the pole to the house (its a semi detached building). I lost about 15Mbps because of that. I'm at 54Mbps. If this can get me back in to the 60s I'd be happy.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on February 13, 2020, 02:58:49 PM
When Ginp was working on ECI many years ago it certainly gave me a good 10% jump in sync speed but it is all dependant on a shortish line/disturbers.

You also have to remember that Ginp *may* also lead to 3db targets which should also give a further 10% increase again all dependant on a shortish line/disturbers.

This is good news but i wouldn't get our hopes up yet we have been given false hope before.

I would certainly trial but I guess it will be just random cabinets selected I assume.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 14, 2020, 04:57:44 AM
Thanks max

I notice it said trial and that it requires the ISP to opt in.  Would be nice if we did get it back as it could be a nice little boost compared to a line being interleaved, but I won't hold my breath just yet.    xdB would certainly be nice if that follows.

It's interesting to note that over the past month or so, Openreach appear to have been playing with the amount of errors (and/or type of errors) that it takes before interleaving is applied.  There's a few ECI lines which have been interleaved over the past few months which don't follow the rules as we know them.

@Bowden - same here.  My immediate neighbour switching from adsl2+ to FTTC cost me a very large chunk of speed.  Cant recall the exact amount now without going to check, but something like 10-12 Mbps. 
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 14, 2020, 08:13:10 AM
I wonder if my line being below the handback threshold would push Plusnet into opting in?

Incidentally, does 3dB on ECI actually mean 3dB or is it more like 3.8dB?  Because with the Lantiq adjustment to SNRm that seems to be as low as either of my lines will go, frustrating as my Zen line could have full sync if it would push a little lower.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: broadstairs on February 14, 2020, 08:32:20 AM
When G.INP was turned on originally on my ECI cabinet it worked perfectly for me. Been interlaced more or less permanently since it was turned off!

Stuart
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Weaver on February 14, 2020, 12:12:46 PM
@Bowdon as you’re aware, I use IP-bonded lines; it works superbly and I thoroughly recommend it if you’re sufficiently fed up with your speed. Unfortunately we all knew there was going to be a honeymoon with FTTC, as you say, until your neighbour eventually goes for it especially. Still that doesn’t help with the gnawing feeling of disappointment I’m sure; not that I know, as I’ve never even seen FTTC.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on February 14, 2020, 12:16:15 PM
I wonder if my line being below the handback threshold would push Plusnet into opting in?

Incidentally, does 3dB on ECI actually mean 3dB or is it more like 3.8dB?  Because with the Lantiq adjustment to SNRm that seems to be as low as either of my lines will go, frustrating as my Zen line could have full sync if it would push a little lower.

It won't go lower because your line is banded.

With the right Lantiq modern you can go below 3dB.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on February 14, 2020, 02:14:47 PM


There's a few ECI lines which have been interleaved over the past few months which don't follow the rules as we know them.
My ECI lime no longer uses 2880 ES / 20 resyncs per day it seems to be dependant on SES also now.  If you get enough SES you end up on interleave even if you only have 500ES and 0 resyncs.  It is very annoying as I have to wait 14 days for it to be removed.  Basically a few seconds of SES and you have a reduced speed line for 14d.  Hopefully GINP will help so I really do hope GINP is coming.

I hope we get to see some people posting when they notice ECI GINP on their lines.  I still miss MDWS.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 14, 2020, 03:04:16 PM
It won't go lower because your line is banded.

With the right Lantiq modern you can go below 3dB.

I figured as much, but why would the line be banded in the first place?  I don't think I've ever synced at this speed before, went from full speed to much lower and its still on fastpath.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on February 15, 2020, 12:15:41 AM
If this is ISP 100,000 lines opt in how can this possibly work - wouldn"t this be a cabinet not specific line setting? The last time it was enabled we had to wait for the cabinet having it enabled and then everyone on that cabinet had ginp?  Confused?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: CarlT on February 15, 2020, 09:27:40 AM
DLM doesn't do the same thing to every line on a cabinet.

Because a cabinet can do something doesn't mean it will for every line - remember CPs can request specific profiles: this is a new one.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: burakkucat on February 15, 2020, 04:40:58 PM
Confused?

I suspect you are confusing G.Inp (ITU-T G.998.4) with G.Vector (ITU-T G.993.5). The former, as CarlT has pointed out, can be per line (circuit) but the latter is either all lines (circuits) per DSLAM or none.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on February 15, 2020, 10:39:46 PM
Yes you are correct I should stop posting in the middle of the night :)

I guess we may see some cabinets getting updated with new software unless they are already all updated.

I wonder if we will find out which isps are accepting trialists and whether you can volunteer?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 16, 2020, 03:38:37 PM
They may have already been updated. 
I had an overnight outage about 5/6 wks ago.  Only noticed because I was streaming something at the time.  If that's what it was, it didn't take long.

If like previous trials it wont be anything that you as a consumer can select to opt into.   
The ISP decides if they want to participate and then that usually includes all their customers using that product.   I suppose it depends if they think it will be advantageous and/or if it will incur any additional workload.   
Plusnet usually opt in to most trials, but it's not always a foregone conclusion - for some reason they didn't for the initial 'x'dB trial.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on February 16, 2020, 06:18:20 PM
My mate was enabled 61.5Mbps as I thought he would easily get around 72Mbps but until I checked his green cabinet it was ECI - and he is with Plusnet ISP so I told him to ask Plusnet tomorrow to get option in trial of G.INP to get it enabled
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 16, 2020, 10:39:51 PM
and the standard reps probably wont have a clue :(

1) The trial hasn't started yet.
2) We don't even know if any ISPs have yet opted in - or even been accepted to opt in as it's still too early. The opt in decisions are taken at a much higher level than CS/TS and we as consumers have little influence.
3) It will be on a ISP basis and not by line - backed up by the number which they anticipate will be on the trial.   Sometimes they do a by line basis trails which is usually restricted to say staff members and that figure is a lot less than 100k .

If they opt in, then we will find out eventually in a month or so.
As Carl has already said the DLM works on profiles which does allow for specific ISP profiles.   The easiest way I can think how to compare it which you may understand, is similar to how an ISP can select 'Speed' or 'Standard' and that then becomes default for all their customers.


Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ejs on February 17, 2020, 06:10:50 PM
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/ECI-Cabinets/td-p/1708051
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on February 18, 2020, 06:39:58 AM
I have asked AAISP to opt in, they have queried TTB and BTw to try and get some information on it.  So I expect they will opt-in if the option is open to them.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on February 18, 2020, 06:47:24 AM
My ECI lime no longer uses 2880 ES / 20 resyncs per day it seems to be dependant on SES also now.  If you get enough SES you end up on interleave even if you only have 500ES and 0 resyncs.  It is very annoying as I have to wait 14 days for it to be removed.  Basically a few seconds of SES and you have a reduced speed line for 14d.  Hopefully GINP will help so I really do hope GINP is coming.

I hope we get to see some people posting when they notice ECI GINP on their lines.  I still miss MDWS.


There has been a DLM adjustment unfortunately, we don't know quite know what it is, but SES is certainly a possibility.

I think the industry has decided to move to a lower expectations model which in turn leads to less fault reports and ultimately less hassle for CP's.  When the competition is selling 100s of mbits/sec, I think the difference between say a 50mbit speed and 60mbit speed isnt going to materially affect churn when compared to say 300mbit/sec.

If I am right, it explains the more conservative ECI DLM, the lower fault thresholds, the lower estimates, it will all make sense and also remember Openreach are crippled by Ofcom regulation with the revenue they can earn so it has led to a lower QoS from them.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 18, 2020, 06:59:29 AM
I have asked AAISP to opt in, they have queried TTB and BTw to try and get some information on it.  So I expect they will opt-in if the option is open to them.

Info is available here if you want to pass the link on.   Unfortunately you need an Openreach log in to be able to read it :(

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/newlogin.do?smauthreason=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openreach.co.uk%2Forpg%2Fcustomerzone%2Fupdates%2Fbriefings%2Fnga%2Fnga00820.pdf&fromMasterHead=1
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on February 18, 2020, 07:07:04 AM
Thanks Kitz, I will pass it onto Shaun.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 18, 2020, 08:43:56 AM
YVW

There has been a DLM adjustment unfortunately, we don't know quite know what it is, but SES is certainly a possibility.

I think the industry has decided to move to a lower expectations model which in turn leads to less fault reports and ultimately less hassle for CP's.  When the competition is selling 100s of mbits/sec, I think the difference between say a 50mbit speed and 60mbit speed isnt going to materially affect churn when compared to say 300mbit/sec.

If I am right, it explains the more conservative ECI DLM, the lower fault thresholds, the lower estimates, it will all make sense and also remember Openreach are crippled by Ofcom regulation with the revenue they can earn so it has led to a lower QoS from them.

I'm not certain what is going on, but not sure if its just linked to SES either... as the day I have interleaving applied after the 25 Err Sec spike was also just 25 for the whole day.       
What I do know is that they have been trialling a new system since Sept last year,  which appears to be more temporal than the existing/previous 24hr period... and is possibly catching very large CRC bursts that may occur in a short(er) time frame.   I'm trying to do more digging and if I do find out any info I will let you know.

Penalising a line for a single 25 second really bad noise spike which was ok for the rest of the day seems like overkill.   It 'may' not be as much of a bad thing to apply RS encoding to lines with a large amount of CRC in a short time frame to a line which has the benefit of re-tx... but seems a tad unfair and harsh to those of us on ECI's who don't have g.inp as a first line defence mechanism against noise.
   
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on February 18, 2020, 09:59:39 AM
Info is available here if you want to pass the link on.   Unfortunately you need an Openreach log in to be able to read it :(

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/newlogin.do?smauthreason=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openreach.co.uk%2Forpg%2Fcustomerzone%2Fupdates%2Fbriefings%2Fnga%2Fnga00820.pdf&fromMasterHead=1 (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/newlogin.do?smauthreason=0&target=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.openreach.co.uk%2Forpg%2Fcustomerzone%2Fupdates%2Fbriefings%2Fnga%2Fnga00820.pdf&fromMasterHead=1)

Does anyone can copy and paste here if they do have openreach to logged in. Hate it when they hidden (not shown to the public)

Please do not do this - roseway

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on February 18, 2020, 10:01:14 AM
I'm still waiting for interleave to be removed since my last SES spike but I am monitoring my line and when it gets applied again I am expecting a SES burst the day before.  It may be some other criterion but SES seems to be the most obvious at the moment.

Back to the ECI ginp trial what is going to be infuriating is if he trial fails again knowing that with a click of a button at Openreach end you can have ginp on eci lines.  It should be made an option that the end user can turn on off.  Add the option for the customer to set target db from 3db whilst they are at it :)

I hope there is at least one Kitz user on the trial to report back information.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on February 18, 2020, 10:02:37 AM
My mate on plusnet has requested for a trial on his ECI cabinet. I asked him to join this forum.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 18, 2020, 10:21:29 AM
I posted on the forum too to request consideration for the trial.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Ronski on February 18, 2020, 03:49:29 PM
Does anyone can copy and paste here if they do have openreach to logged in. Hate it when they hidden (not shown to the public)

That would almost certainly be in breach of the terms and conditions of the users account, and could cause issues for kitz if it was posted here.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: CarlT on February 19, 2020, 02:25:18 PM
Yeah as mentioned breaching NDAs like that is a bad idea.

It's absolutely none of our business what Openreach do behind their login wall any more than it's our business what other companies are discussing internally or with their customers even if those customers in turn use their products to sell services to us.

At best it would cause disciplinary action and at worst a job being lost.

This'll probably be made clearer once BT Wholesale have briefed their customers. That's usually when things become clearer as by then things tend to be less 'confidential'.

Either way it doesn't really matter. We know what's happening so details not so necessary. The new FTTP pricing stuff is far more interesting.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on February 19, 2020, 04:36:04 PM
The new FTTP pricing stuff is far more interesting.

Speaking of, its kinda weird that they implement the changes a week before the end of the financial year so the activation price is cheaper for that whole week before going up.

Why would you complicate things like that rather than just delaying the new pricing/packages to the week later?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 19, 2020, 05:40:28 PM
I've managed to get hold of my DLM MTBE data and by comparing with my own stats obtained from my router, I can confirm that for all days bar one that the Openreach MTBE data matches up with my MTBE calculations (give or take 1 or 2 err secs) which would imply DLM is still using the same MTBE parameters and is only using ErrSecs.

The one day which had a difference was actually in my favour.   DLM recorded MTBE of 3500 whilst my modem captured MTBE 1630.    I was a bit puzzled by this at first especially as there was no data recorded either a couple of days previously.    So either DLM didn't capture the whole days data... or....this unrecorded data may have been discarded to a Wide Area Event.   

Wide Area Events do appear to work on my cab as there have been two instances where I know I have definitely gone into ILQ red, yet DLM has discarded the data and taken no action.   One during a thunderstorm and the other where iirc there was a period of errors after some sort of power outage.

 

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on February 19, 2020, 06:03:06 PM
The above calculations do not explain why we are seeing some instances of oddness where a few lines have had DLM action taken at a ludicrously low rate of errors.
 
In other news I can however confirm that Openreach are playing and looking at employing a temporal DLM which has been up for trials since Sept last year.  This info is in the public domain (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefingsarticles/nga02719.do) so I am not giving away trade secrets.   

Temporal DLMs do not run for a 24hr period and may only record data during either certain times of the day or may run for differing time periods.  (with the same params).  The idea of temporal DLMs is to increase stability for lines whose 24hr period MTBE is in effect negated by large parts of the rest of the day without errors.

Please note it is very important that this is/was a smallish trial and not in general use yet.  Only a tiny portion of lines are on the trial and that is only if your ISP is one of those elected to go on the trial.     
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 09, 2020, 11:02:12 AM
Has anyone heard back from any ISPs saying they are definitely putting their customers on the trial? 

Can't wait to see if come Thursday if anyone here gets on the trial. 

OR can reset my line off interleave and give me Ginp on Thursday morning it is due to be removed around that time anyway ;)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on March 09, 2020, 11:31:09 AM
My ISP Zen told me at this time that they were not taking part sadly for me..
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on March 09, 2020, 11:44:30 AM
Has anyone heard back from any ISPs saying they are definitely putting their customers on the trial? 

Can't wait to see if come Thursday if anyone here gets on the trial. 

OR can reset my line off interleave and give me Ginp on Thursday morning it is due to be removed around that time anyway ;)

Did I miss something? What's happening Thursday?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 09, 2020, 12:26:39 PM
Did I miss something? What's happening Thursday?

Hopefully a new trial of Ginp on ECI cabinets will start.  Full announcement in OP.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on March 10, 2020, 03:28:19 AM
Ah.
I took any date with a pinch of salt and browsed right past it.

I'd be surprised to see examples of Retx on day 1 of the trial.
Would be nice to see OpenReach beat my low expectations of them on this though,
Previous ECI Retx trials leave me a little sceptical  :D
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 10, 2020, 09:14:03 AM
Completely agree but I can dream that the outcome will be more positive this time :)

OR could have completely given up but they haven't they deserve some credit for this.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on March 10, 2020, 09:50:08 PM
EE didn't confirmed, but they asked for my details, so we will see on (from) Thursday if something change.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on March 11, 2020, 03:18:43 AM
Plusnet told forum as they start this next week to move this forward for some of ECI customers to take trial of G.INP not every customers.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 11, 2020, 03:49:42 AM
bobpullen
Quote
I've relayed everybody's interest and hope for there to be some movement next week 🙂
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on March 13, 2020, 06:47:43 PM
bobpullen
Quote
Too late to the party I'm afraid Sad

I'll keep you in mind for any further activity though.

Seem I was correct as not everyones taking part of this. Very limit one.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 13, 2020, 10:49:47 PM
No its not a very limited one -  As mentioned in the other thread (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21320.msg411253.html#msg411253) the trial is for 100k lines via ISP opt in.

Read Bobs post carefully

Quote
ISP's aren't offering 10-30 lines each, you're reading between the lines. What we won't be doing though, is running this as an open trial. There isn't a team, nor the capacity to faciliate it, and I don't think it's a good fit for this type of activity anyway.

I simply noted the interest and pulled a favour, because in low numbers, I think some open discussion here could be of benefit
.

I think I can possibly take a good stab at what Bob did, based on the fact that the submitted lines didn't appear to go in until very last minute. 
ISP opt ins have to be in well before the start of the trial date so it gives the ISP time to vet the OR selected list and make adjustments.

Bob is far from stupid and will realise that certain PN customers do have access to full stats so are more likely to notice changes than say Sky customers.   He is aware that much of the problems with G.INP Mk1 was spotted by users of this forum, MDWS and feed back also on the PN community site.  Bob was heavily involved in reporting the G.INP Mk1 fiasco to Openreach..  who were totally blind and oblivious to it until he raised it...  so hopefully those on the trial will report any findings in the thread as he requested.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on March 14, 2020, 04:03:46 AM
I have had no further updates from AAISP which doesnt bode well.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 14, 2020, 10:32:13 AM
Thats sad  :(

The more people on the trial who have access to decent stats the better IMHO.     I doubt the average [say Sky] user using an SP provided modem would notice what's going on.    Probably those who benefit the most will be those with error correction and interleaving who should see more of an immediate benefit.   I don't have error protection atm, but it would be nice if I no longer had to worry about my daily spike landing me with interleaving.
I'd also be interested to see how much of a difference g.inp does make to my daily dose of SHINE..   as in reality g.inp isn't very good protection against SHINE type noise.    Also my line stats have changed quite a bit since G.INP Mk1 when I used to easily get 80Mbps, but I didn't see much difference to the max headline rate.   I'm now hit by crosstalk and my days of 80Mbps are long gone...  so whilst I'm not expecting much of a speed improvement, I am hoping this opens the gateway to 'x'dB. 
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on March 17, 2020, 02:38:28 AM
First person has enabled G.INP from Plusnet ISP just now from PN forum

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 17, 2020, 08:44:19 AM
I lost the lottery I had a resync this morning it has removed my interleaving but no Ginp :(
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 17, 2020, 09:13:31 AM
It seems to have tanked my SNRm even further, although at least the latency is much better.

I wonder if I'd be better off ditching Lantiq and going back to the Broadcom for this?

Code: [Select]
Chipset: Lantiq™ XWAY™ VRX268
Firmware Version: 5.8.1.8.1.6
API Version: 4.17.18.6
MEI Version: 1.5.17.6
Power Management Mode: L0 - Synchronized
Line State: UP [0x801: showtime_tc_sync]
Line Uptime: 7h 19m 6s
Resyncs: 4
DSLAM/MSAN VID:
XTSE Capabilities: 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0x2
Annex: B
Line Mode: G.993.2 (VDSL2)
Profile: 17a
Trellis: D: ON / U: ON
Bitswap: D: ON / U: ON
G.INP: D: Enabled / U: Not Enabled
Virtual Noise Support: D: Not Supported / U: Not Supported
Attain Data Rate: 55.291 Mb/s / 20.384 Mb/s
Actual Data Rate: 61.020 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot: 45.7 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay: 0.23 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC: 32 / 255
RFEC: 16 / 16
LSYMB: 16 / 5410
Interleave Depth: 1 / 1
Interleave Block: 32 / 255
LPATH: 0 / 0
Line Attenuation: 12.3dB / 15.0dB
Signal Attenuation: 12.3dB / 14.9dB
Noise Margin: 4.6dB / 6.0dB
Transmit power: 14.0dBm / 5.7dBm
FECS: 0 / 199
ES: 25 / 34265
SES: 0 / 124
LOSS: 5 / 0
UAS: 141 / 141
HEC: 0 / 0
CRC_P: 0 / 0
CRCP_P: 0 / 0
15m Code Violations: 0 / 2
15m FEC Errors: 0 / 3
1d Code Violations: 1 / 48
1d FEC Errors: 41 / 239
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on March 17, 2020, 09:22:55 AM
If your lantiq works good, I wouldn't bother, especially that you got g.inp compatible fw on it, and already g.inp on.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: gentoo on March 17, 2020, 10:14:04 AM
G.INP was applied to my line last night, max data rate increased by 7Mbps ping reduced 10ms unfortunately I'm unable to harvest my error stats as I'm using a Smarthub 6 but still very happy with the initial results….
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on March 17, 2020, 10:19:20 AM
It show that plusnet do care for their customers for G. Inp trial while other isps don't
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 17, 2020, 11:01:26 AM
I wish I tried for the trial but didn't want to risk problems with my line even though it seemed to work fine for the short amount of time I had it the last time they tried.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 17, 2020, 11:03:30 AM
Plusnet have done a good thing here especially after the recent posts of the so called premium isps not really doing anything more (perhaps even less) for their customers when they have problems with their line.  Thumbs up Plusnet!
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 17, 2020, 12:42:36 PM
Resync'd at 01:00 this morning which increased my Sync Speed by 2Mbps.

Stats one hour before resync.

Code: [Select]
This information shows the latest ONGOING stats obtained at 00:00 on 17/03/2020


Downstream      Upstream                                        Downstream      Upstream

 
            Sync (kbps)    66037         20000                           Interleaving          1             1
 Attainable rate (kbps)    66100         25329                                    INP       0.00          0.00
       Attenuation (dB)      0.0           0.0
        SNR Margin (dB)      6.3           9.2
           Power (dBmV)      6.4           6.3                            SES (total)        154             0
RSUnCorr errors (delta)        0             0                RSUnCorr errors (total)          0             0
Errored seconds (delta)        0             0                Errored seconds (total)       2595          1441
       Bitswaps (delta)        0             0                       Bitswaps (total)       3608            92
     CRC errors (delta)        0             0                     CRC errors (total)      81819          1557
     HEC errors (delta)        0             0                     HEC errors (total)      31022             0
     FEC errors (delta)        0             0                     FEC errors (total)          0         16808
 __________________________________________________



Stats immediately after resync

Code: [Select]
=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= Plink log 2020.03.17 01:04:06 =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 25163 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67547 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68019 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.3             9.3
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.6             6.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              150
B:              243             236
M:              1               1
T:              0               5
R:              6               16
S:              0.1142          0.3771
L:              17509           5410
D:              1               1
I:              250             255
N:              250             255
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                54              0
TxQueue:                18              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         18              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0





Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 17, 2020, 01:54:13 PM
As an aside my throughput speed doesnt seem to have changed to reflect the increase in sync.   Not sure if PN need to update their profile.

My IPprofile at the w/e was 63.92 but I can't get a current figure from the BTw tester which is saying no data.


---------------
ETA
PN now updated my PN profile throughput now better :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 17, 2020, 02:59:08 PM
After reading responses on the Plusnet forums I wish I tried to get on the trial myself now (see post #18 for link). 
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jon21 on March 17, 2020, 04:58:14 PM
Has it just been people that are using Plusnet that have had G.INP applied? Not noticed anything with Sky. But would guess it would be done in batches?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 17, 2020, 05:11:22 PM
It is only a few select limited people at the moment I believe who asked to be put on the trial even though there is a recent post in the plusnet thread saying all eci users have had it applied.  I certainly haven't :( and is wrong information.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on March 17, 2020, 05:51:22 PM
Looks like only plusnet show up that they do job properly. I'm on ee, also volunteering on ee community forum to be in trial a way before, and nothing happened yet on my line.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 17, 2020, 06:00:23 PM
Dang it, had two resyncs so not looking good here.  Time to try the Zyxel I think:

Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 20384 Kbps, Downstream rate = 58103 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 57383 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.2             6.0
Attn(dB):        13.7            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.7            6.4

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              150
B:              227             236
M:              1               1
T:              0               5
R:              12              16
S:              0.1264          0.3771
L:              15193           5410
D:              1               1
I:              240             255
N:              240             255
Q:              4               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                99              0
TxQueue:                33              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         31              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           122             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              8.0000          0.0000
L:              32              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               75992
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             14660952                4937070
RSCorr:         5               4
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            29011           0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             231595          0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         224             0
rtx_c:          0               0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        57376           0
errFreeBits:    407748          0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    51420457                0
Data Cells:     1541986         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               34333
SES:            0               125
UAS:            31              237902
AS:             467

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.15
OR:             0.01            202.87
AgR:            57508.75        20203.27

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.00            0.00
INPRein:        2.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             63.75           0.01
AgR:            63.75   0.01

Bitswap:        116/116         0/0

Total time = 8 min 18 sec
FEC:            5               4
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               34333
SES:            0               125
UAS:            31              237902
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 18 sec
FEC:            5               4
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               34333
SES:            0               125
UAS:            31              237902
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 8 min 18 sec
FEC:            5               4
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               34333
SES:            0               125
UAS:            31              237902
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 7 min 45 sec
FEC:            5               4
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               34333
SES:            0               125
UAS:            0               237871
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on March 18, 2020, 12:37:56 AM
https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/03/early-feedback-from-openreachs-g-inp-eci-hybrid-fibre-trial.html
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 18, 2020, 10:20:47 AM
So far looking like its much more stable on the Zyxel which is a bummer as its ~4Mbit lower sync.  (though obviously these things are going to be related)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on March 24, 2020, 12:54:45 PM
As it appears things are working does anyone want to guess when the trial will be expanded as I feel I am missing out now :(

I should have posted in the Plusnet thread to get on the trial but didn't want to risk problems with my connection at this time but as things seem positive I wish I risked it now.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 24, 2020, 01:58:01 PM
If Bob managed to get us on the trial the way I suspect he did, then I doubt any more will be added until or if it goes live.   
Not sure which other ISPs opted for the trial but in view of the large amount they were intending on testing, then it was a high proportion of the ECI base.   It would be interesting to see if anyone on some of the other big ISPs such as BT/sky/tt see it enabled on their line.     Thing is most of their customers will be using modems which don't have decent stats, so I doubt many would notice.

I hope it does go through and Openreach roll it out across the whole ECI platform asap.    Then hoping that next they roll on 'x'dB,  which they halted at the last time at the very last min.

I had a mammoth spike of errors yesterday which I saw despite being on g.inp and I half waited with trepidation to see what the DLM did.      I think if my line didn't have retransmission to give it some protection, then DLM may well have interleaved me today.    Even with g.inp,  I got 3k CRCs and FECs went off the scale, so goodness knows how many CRCs that would have been without re-tx.    Mind you the burst did only last a few minutes, but I have seen the ECI DLM be a bit more aggressive than usual of late.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 24, 2020, 03:48:36 PM
I also wonder of the stock Home Hub 5A is as flaky as my OpenWRT version.

I tried going to back to it but the Zyxel seems rock-solid, the HH5A will maintain sync for a day or so then just randomly resync for no apparent reason.

Its curious as while the HH5A is known to be part of the original problem hardware, I don't think this is the typical behaviour.

Honestly though, while I got 4Mbit higher sync with it than the Zyxel, I didn't see any improvement in real-world throughput (even though I saw the Plusnet profile increase) so I suspect its just a crap implementation of g.INP as previously reported.  If anything the throughput seemed to struggle to hit what the Zyxel does with ease.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on March 24, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
Did you tried different vdsl fw on openwrt? 🤔
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on March 24, 2020, 07:26:15 PM
Will i actually see g.inp this time? remember on the last trial I never had it at all.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 24, 2020, 08:16:15 PM
Did you tried different vdsl fw on openwrt? 🤔

I thought about it, but honestly it seemed a lot of work seeing as DLM would likely kick in at some point causing any conclusions to be invalid.

Its just puzzling that there is nothing that jumps out from the stats to suggest a problem.  I'm kinda suspicious that it might actually be upstream causing the problem, as Lantiq syncs higher and I have zero control over what happens to upstream sync.  Just easier to stick with BCM as if they roll this out fully then maybe they will enable 3dB SNR which would get me back the speed anyway.

That said, I'm keeping my fingers cross that by the time the trial ends in August it wont be long until FTTP is an option.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on March 25, 2020, 09:51:33 AM
I noticed a new post in the BQM thread a few minutes ago and was having a browse through some older posts.

I spotted kitz BQM... ouch!

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21177.msg367178.html#msg367178

(https://www.thinkbroadband.com/broadband/monitoring/quality/share/thumb/9097e428aec9a35a78c378bb076667fb7877287e.png)[/url]

That's a nasty increase in latency and a huge amount of packet loss.

ES/SES are huge and FEC has gone off the graph.

https://kitz.co.uk/linestats/errors.htm

G.INP still active.
Curious if DLM will act or if it's essentially off on trial lines.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: adslmax on March 25, 2020, 10:11:52 AM
Oh dear me! Was it like this in every PN customers? Or only ECI customers?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on March 25, 2020, 12:26:46 PM
Oh dear me! Was it like this in every PN customers? Or only ECI customers?

Neither.
Only kitz line.

I'm of the opinion something is borked on her ECI DSLAM.

A resync usually fixes it.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on March 25, 2020, 01:36:42 PM
She has this issue that comes and goes, g.inp mitigates the impacts of problems, but it isnt a cure all fix.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 25, 2020, 08:01:08 PM
Nothing to do with the trial.   That is my daily dose of SHINE gone mental - which it does from time to time.
I have something set up to alert me and thus prevent that mess by switching off my modem for a short while before DLM sees it.   

Unfortunately I'm having a really bad flare atm and have gone several nights without sleep due to pain. Plus lots of other stuff going on which hasnt helped.   It was about 6am when I managed to get to sleep and was amazed to find out it was 11am when I woke which is something I've not done for years.   However,  I had slept through my alarm and also numerous email alerts telling me my connection needed a reboot.

That mess _would_ have continued until I physically put a stop to it and it is why I monitor my line. Usually I catch it within 10 mins. Today I didn't.   

G.INP doesn't do much for SHINE.   FEC doesn't do much either when its that bad.   I've no doubt DLM will have spotted it.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 29, 2020, 02:35:26 AM
Since that horrendous burst of noise, I thought the DLM may hammer me.    But touch wood it looks like I've gotten away with it  :fingers:

After I rebooted the other day to clear the noise, when it came back up I noticed my SNRM was at 6.8dB but it immediately dropped down to 6.4 and as my sync was fairly rounded to 68Mbps (67790) and just assumed that it was just the DSM playing with power.   I happened to notice this evening my SNRM had gone back up to 6.8 again so out of curiosity I performed a resync.    Now connecting at 68960 so that's yet another small gain of 1.2Mbps giving a total gain of ~3Mbps since g.inp was enabled on my line.

My daily SHINE is still there as I'm seeing FEC's each morning for 1 min, but for the past few days it hasn't caused any E/Secs

No idea why DLM didn't kick in..  but I'm certainly not complaining.  :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on March 29, 2020, 04:42:27 AM
If the line is Retx High I'm not sure what DLM could do.

Don't think the Huawei DLM would take any action on a 6dB Retx High line for high ES.
There's nowhere else for it to go.

If Retx Low I'm surprised DLM didn't try Retx High.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Weaver on March 29, 2020, 06:52:11 AM
Forgive me, I forget - is there upstream G.INP on your link now? If so, what does it do for you? You’re getting roughly 4% more downstream speed then.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 29, 2020, 01:28:29 PM
Re-tx low
 
I was getting practically the full 3600 Err Secs per hour for over 3.5hrs.
Aside from a small respite for a couple of minutes at 8:30, I was racking up at the rate of 1 E/Sec per second from ~7:30 until just gone 11am.

INP rein and interleave delay have not been added. 

Code: [Select]
                        Bearer 0
INP:            47.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.15
OR:             0.01            202.87
AgR:            69030.25        20203.27
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on March 29, 2020, 01:33:52 PM
Forgive me, I forget - is there upstream G.INP on your link now? If so, what does it do for you? You’re getting roughly 4% more downstream speed then.

This is a trial for downstream retransmission on ECI cabs.   ECI's supposedly cant do upstream.
Yes, the potential gains for those on ECI cabs who previously had Interleaving could be even greater.   
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on April 07, 2020, 08:10:54 PM
wow trial already suspended :( thats why not many on it
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: burakkucat on April 07, 2020, 08:27:27 PM
wow trial already suspended :(

Is it?  :-\  Do you have a link to the Openreach announcement, please?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on April 07, 2020, 08:49:53 PM
Is it?  :-\  Do you have a link to the Openreach announcement, please?
i can pm
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: burakkucat on April 07, 2020, 08:52:05 PM
Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on April 07, 2020, 10:10:05 PM
wow trial already suspended
Is ther somewhere officiall info about?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 07, 2020, 10:12:00 PM
wow trial already suspended :( thats why not many on it

I kinda expected that, its risky doing anything that might decrease stability during the current situation.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on April 11, 2020, 01:17:36 AM
Since that horrendous burst of noise, I thought the DLM may hammer me.    But touch wood it looks like I've gotten away with it  :fingers:

After I rebooted the other day to clear the noise, when it came back up I noticed my SNRM was at 6.8dB but it immediately dropped down to 6.4 and as my sync was fairly rounded to 68Mbps (67790) and just assumed that it was just the DSM playing with power.   I happened to notice this evening my SNRM had gone back up to 6.8 again so out of curiosity I performed a resync.    Now connecting at 68960 so that's yet another small gain of 1.2Mbps giving a total gain of ~3Mbps since g.inp was enabled on my line.

My daily SHINE is still there as I'm seeing FEC's each morning for 1 min, but for the past few days it hasn't caused any E/Secs

No idea why DLM didn't kick in..  but I'm certainly not complaining.  :)

I had another stuck SHINE burst this morning.  The email notification took a while to come through as there were that many errors it was difficult to send or receive any data, but I was still able to stop it in about 10 mins. 

Total error seconds for the day was 683...  and the DLM has just taken action.   
Compared to 11,705 a couple of weeks ago when it didn't take any action.

----
Stats

Previous
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 24417 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68365 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68960 Kbps

                        Bearer 0
INP:            47.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.15
OR:             0.01            202.87
AgR:            69030.25        20203.27

Current
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 24776 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67197 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67984 Kbps

                        Bearer 0
INP:            51.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.15
OR:             0.01            202.87
AgR:            68054.16        20203.27



PS. 
I've noticed since I've been on G.INP that my max rate is always below my actual rate despite my SNRM being 6.4 dB. 
1) Is 6.4dB the new Target SNR as every sync I've done since being on re-tx has been at 6.4dB
2) Presumably the modem isn't correctly calculating the overheads for g.inp and making the correct adjustment for coding gain in a similar way to how it doesnt correctly take into account interleave overhead. 




 
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ejs on April 11, 2020, 07:37:36 AM
I think the target SNRM always was and still is 6.0 dB. If your modems always connect at a slightly higher SNRM, I think that'll just be the modems erring on the side of caution when estimating the rate/SNRM to connect at. Technically speaking, the very definition of SNRM is totally different with G.INP. Without G.INP, SNRM is defined relative to bit error rate (1 error per 107 bits), whereas with G.INP, SNRM is defined relative to MTBE (1 error in 4 hours).
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on April 12, 2020, 04:46:45 AM
That's an interesting point.  Do the modems actually bother to try to calculate that or just report the SNRm as if G.INP did not exist?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on April 13, 2020, 10:34:13 AM
Is there anyone who is on this trial on eci cabinets and using lantiq based chipset modem?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on April 13, 2020, 11:16:44 AM
Yes.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24403.msg412216.html#msg412216

A few Plusnet Hub Ones on the Plusnet forums also.

https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/ECI-Cabinets/td-p/1708051
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on April 13, 2020, 12:25:07 PM
My daily dose of SHINE got stuck again yesterday.  Total Err Secs for the day = 1483
I had a forced resync this morning at 03:48 and it looks like the DLM may have banded me at 67Mbps.


I've just tried another resync and still at 67Mbps

Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 24881 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68700 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.5             9.4
Attn(dB):        0.0             0.0
Pwr(dBm):        6.8             6.8

The INP value has also increased to 52.   
Notice also for the first time since being on G.INP my max sync is now more than my actual.   I'd commented just the other day about my max value being less since re-tx had been applied on my line.

Code: [Select]
                        Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.15
OR:             0.01            202.87
AgR:            67092.23        20203.27

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01


G.INP doesn't cope well with my daily bursts of SHINE  :(

The reason I say doesn't cope well, is that when the bouts of SHINE stick, then whilst on G.INP absolutely no data can be sent or received on my connection.   
Prior to G.INP at least some data was able to get through and I would get DSLstat alerts informing me there was a problem.   

Each time it happens now, then I get loads and loads of these errors in my DSLstats event log, thus it may be some time before I notice there is a problem with my connection - making it too late to manually intervene like I used to be able to.

12 Apr 2020 08:50:35   Email alert failed (unable to login to SMTP server)
12 Apr 2020 08:51:13   Email alert failed (unable to login to SMTP server)
12 Apr 2020 08:52:14   Email alert failed (unable to login to SMTP server)
etc etc etc



It's annoying because that daily SHINE is usually only for a minute or so per day and the rest of the day its fine.    No amount of Interleaving or G.INP is ever going to be able to correct what happens during that SHINE burst.     Since being on G.INP those daily SHINE bursts have stuck far more frequently than they usually do.
Not quite sure what will happen next, because if the SHINE bursts continue to get stuck and I'm not getting email notifications then DLM I guess will just keep continuing to take further action with the banding?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: tiffy on April 13, 2020, 01:39:58 PM
With your somewhat unusual line characteristics and the very successful work around you pioneered it's a very unfortunate bi-product in your case of the very long awaited re-application of G.Inp to ECI cabinets.

Still, I'am sure you will manage to formulate a new solution/work around, good luck, will follow with interest.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ejs on April 13, 2020, 06:30:52 PM
Or the behaviour of kitz's line will get G.INP on ECI banished again.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on April 13, 2020, 07:14:38 PM
well kiz i prefer the new g.inp dlm, you been dlmd twice now and still no interleaving :) banding > interleaving
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on April 13, 2020, 10:23:47 PM
Or the behaviour of kitz's line will get G.INP on ECI banished again.

Hope not..  it works really well aside from my daily error burst each morning.      It's well known that retransmission doesn't work well with shine and types of rein.

Thing is DLM on the ECIs is cutting in at low level Err/secs - way below what there were.    This isn't anything to do with g.inp, but has been happening for a while now and its not unique to my line.   Chrys has just had it happen to him too.   

If it were still the 'old' parameters then I would not have had DLM action a couple of days ago as I spotted that myself as I was on the forum and everything just stopped working, so I was able to correct it quite quickly.   It's like the transmission queue buffer cant cope with the amount of errors and just backs up until no data at all gets through.  Webpages wont load, email doesn't contact the host etc.   Pre g.inp everything would slow down but at least a good portion of data would still be transmitted. 

well kiz i prefer the new g.inp dlm, you been dlmd twice now and still no interleaving :) banding > interleaving

Aye - I'm on re-tx high so my throughput speed is probably not so great as it could be due to the IProfile - in turn due to additional overheads...  and the banding is still at a figure that I'm ok with.    Still in a better than it would be if I was interleaved.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on April 14, 2020, 01:35:37 AM
I think I might have suggested this before although I can't remember if it was to yourself or someone else.

I know it won't help much when you're getting so many ES that DslStats struggles to send an email, but you could try automate the process of taking your line down instead of having to react when you receive the DslStats email.

Something like IFTTT can do this.

Connect Zyxel modem to your TP-Link power socket (if you have a spare 1).
When X amount of ES occurs in a set time period have DslStats email IFTTT with a chosen #hashtag.
Have IFTTT turn off your TP-Link WiFi power socket when the above email is sent, immediately stopping the ES burst.

This would mean instead of you having to react to resync your line as quickly as possible you would only have to manually power the modem back on.

I have a similar IFTTT email trigger set up and it works perfect every time.

https://imgur.com/a/UftVkWU

As your line now has G.INP instead of just fastpath you should be able to set the ES trigger in Dslstats much lower than you had it before.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Weaver on April 14, 2020, 02:04:01 AM
That IFTTT stuff is very clever, I’ve seen the iOS app. Got any urls for reading matter?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on April 14, 2020, 12:17:03 PM
Hi J0hn.    I hadnt realised that IFTTT had an email address so thanks for that.    ;D

I do already have the modem plugged into the TPlink HS100 so I can remotely manage it even if out.
   
What I normally do upon receiving the email notification is 
1) Set up a new instruction to automatically power on the HS100 to power on in 5 mins time
2) Then Switch off the HS100.


I shall have to have a look and see if I can do something on IFTTT to get it to bring it back up again too, because once it's down then I have no remote control at all. 

I also have it currently set to alert on CRCs as opposed to Err Secs.  From past experience if I get 3 emails in a row saying the CRCs have gone above a certain amount then its more likely to be a stuck.   I did originally have it set up for Err Secs and cant exactly remember why now, but the CRCs seemed to give a better indication and sooner if it was stuck rather than the Err Secs did.   
From memory I think it was because the ErrSecs count was per hour...  by which time it was often too late.   3 or 4 consecutive emails each min alerts me much sooner that there is a problem.   I sometimes have to do a judgement call based on the CRCs..  ie if say they are at 800 on mail 1, 1200 on mail 2, and 500 on mail 3 then its usually ok...  but if its say 800, 1200, 1200, 1200 I know its stuck.

Although I get a dose of SHINE practically every morning - its never at the same time (can be between 8am and 11am) nor did it ever cause the same amount of CRCs/Err secs.    Since G.INP it does seem to cause a full 60 err secs per min..  yet when on INP it would be more varied and not always the full 60 err secs. 
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on April 14, 2020, 09:22:58 PM
Talking about profiles, we know FEC is used without delay on the US, and some also may remember back when I had a pair swap a few years back, my DS was synced at around 50mbit, I had FEC "without" delay on my DS also that day,  but I have never ever seen that profile on anyone's line since.  It would be nice on non g.inp line's if FEC with no delay was used instead of FEC+delay.

I have now massively reduced the ES threshold on my dslstats email config given all the changes that have been happening.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on April 14, 2020, 10:20:21 PM
There is a FEC on downstream and upstream on eci cabinet if you using modem with lantiq chipset. They are present on mine and I'm on fastpath and no delays, unfortunately no g.inp on my line.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on June 11, 2020, 05:55:52 AM
As it appears things are working does anyone want to guess when the trial will be expanded as I feel I am missing out now :(

I should have posted in the Plusnet thread to get on the trial but didn't want to risk problems with my connection at this time but as things seem positive I wish I risked it now.

Seems they are taking requests from ISP's to have G.INP enabled.

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2020/06/openreach-extend-g-inp-to-more-eci-fttc-broadband-lines.html

Quote from: ISPReview
The recent trial, which is still on pause, was an attempt to deploy ReTx to all ECI lines in a more strategic way. However a new briefing from Openreach (here) claims it will offer ISPs “the chance to deploy ReTransmission to more of their VDSL lines.” The focus of this, we’re told, seems to be on a large volume of in-life ECI lines.

Openreach estimates that around 17% of ECI lines could benefit from ReTx and so they’ve agreed, upon request from an ISP, to deploy the upgrade to in-life ECI FTTC lines over the next six weeks or so. Apparently providers will be able to opt-in to this between now and 9th July 2020. We don’t know exactly how many lines will benefit but it looks like a significant proportion of their estate.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: broadstairs on June 11, 2020, 07:40:05 AM
I woke up this morning to find G.INP enabled on my ECI line this morning and now on fast path running at 67000kbps down. I'm with TalkTalk btw.

Stuart
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on June 11, 2020, 09:57:03 AM
Does anyone have contacts to see what Plusnet might be doing regarding this expansion of trial?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Bowdon on June 11, 2020, 10:57:19 AM
I woke up this morning to find G.INP enabled on my ECI line this morning and now on fast path running at 67000kbps down. I'm with TalkTalk btw.

What speed was you getting before?

Would G.INP help if there is another phone line next to mine (the neighbours) was causing interference?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: broadstairs on June 11, 2020, 11:02:49 AM
What speed was you getting before?

Would G.INP help if there is another phone line next to mine (the neighbours) was causing interference?

I was getting around 64000kbps before the change so not much faster, ominous that the new speed is exactly 67000kbps which sounds like it could be a cap but dont know actually if that's true but SNRM is 7.2db. Interesting Kitz did not see a huge jump in speed either when her line was enabled.

As for your neighbour I have no idea really, maybe but needs some one more knowledgable to answer that.

Stuart
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: tiffy on June 11, 2020, 12:19:07 PM
Quote
Would G.INP help if there is another phone line next to mine (the neighbours) was causing interference?

From my experience, all be it on a Huawei DSLAM, while waiting for G.Inp application after ADSL/VDSL migration, this took close to 6 weeks in my case, DS errors were virtually eliminated by DS G.Inp application.
US G.Inp has been applied to my line from time to time but never lasts more than a few days as the application removes the associated US errors and DLM promptly removes US G.Inp again.
Not sure if US G.Inp is even an option on ECI cabinets ?

Regarding adjacent line interference, had an unusually severe experence recently effecting my US speed and SNRM which was finally traced to a fault on a neighbours VDSL line, see rather long thread here:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24606.msg413899.html#msg413899
Thankfully this was resolved buy my neighbours ISP (BT) as my ISP (PN) refused to investigate.

So yes, G.Inp application is good and should certainly produce a considerable improvement in DS error rate regardless of source.
Glad to see it's finally being implemented on ECI cabinets, hopefully will be extended to all, pity it has taken so long.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on June 11, 2020, 02:00:40 PM
I was getting around 64000kbps before the change so not much faster, ominous that the new speed is exactly 67000kbps which sounds like it could be a cap but dont know actually if that's true but SNRM is 7.2db. Interesting Kitz did not see a huge jump in speed either when her line was enabled.

Definitely sounds banded to me.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: sof006 on June 11, 2020, 06:28:42 PM
Any news of Newcastle Upon Tyne getting this? I'd say 99% of Newcastle uses ECI based exchanges.

Reposting this here into this thread as mentioned by @ktz392837
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 11, 2020, 06:47:27 PM
Any news of Newcastle Upon Tyne getting this? I'd say 99% of Newcastle uses ECI based exchanges.

Reposting this here into this thread as mentioned by @ktz392837

Its not about region, it down to the ISP opting in their users.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 12, 2020, 07:56:53 PM
I have been on at Zen a couple of times now about getting on the openreach trial, 1st time was a flat no but now with this new info I have raised it again.

I would suggest any other Zen ECI user's that are keen to see this then get on to Zen as they still seem a bit unaware of it given my latest response 😖

The last time I had g.inp on eci was 2016..
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on June 13, 2020, 10:30:08 AM
I have been on at Zen a couple of times now about getting on the openreach trial, 1st time was a flat no but now with this new info I have raised it again.

I would suggest any other Zen ECI user's that are keen to see this then get on to Zen as they still seem a bit unaware of it given my latest response 😖

The last time I had g.inp on eci was 2016..

I emailed them yesterday, no response yet but that is understandable given the Pandemic.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 13, 2020, 10:46:16 AM
I emailed them yesterday, no response yet but that is understandable given the Pandemic.


They responded to me but I can tell from the answer the person I spoke to may have miss understood my request... might try a call next week but not holding out any hope at this stage they will take part...
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: sof006 on June 13, 2020, 04:00:57 PM
I emailed them yesterday, no response yet but that is understandable given the Pandemic.

So I just spoke to someone on Live Chat on the techinical support line and they've suggested I get in touch with the sales line as they're more likely to know about information from Openreach (apparently). The person I spoke with said they'll email me with more information on Monday when their colleague is available (they mustn't work weekends). I think i'll wait till Monday to find out more information otherwise potentially someone here could get in touch with Zens sales team to find out more information.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 13, 2020, 04:41:21 PM
I had the same response. Sales seems like the wrong avenue to me. Surely upper level techie type needed to get on board with the trial perhaps.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: sof006 on June 14, 2020, 12:48:55 AM
I had the same response. Sales seems like the wrong avenue to me. Surely upper level techie type needed to get on board with the trial perhaps.

I'll be sure to post back here if and when I hear back from Zen
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jon21 on June 14, 2020, 07:44:30 PM
I have been on at Zen a couple of times now about getting on the openreach trial, 1st time was a flat no but now with this new info I have raised it again.

I would suggest any other Zen ECI user's that are keen to see this then get on to Zen as they still seem a bit unaware of it given my latest response 😖

The last time I had g.inp on eci was 2016..

Just emailed Zen, see what the response is but I expect it'll be a similar reply to everyone else. Hopefully the more emails they get, the more likely they are to get involved.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 14, 2020, 07:50:25 PM
yup. I will try and make a call this week to follow up my email given the response...
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: BungalowBill on June 15, 2020, 08:27:13 AM
RE: Zen Internet.

On Thursday (11th June), I had to speak to our Zen account manager regarding an unrelated matter; by which I mean my employer's account manager of course.

While I had him on the line, I asked him about Openreach NGA briefing (NGA017/20), as we now have quite a few pandemic induced teleworkers, using “Zen Small Business Fibre”, i.e. GEA-FTTC, connected to lousy ECI street cabinets, which includes my own connection.

He said that, whilst they hadn’t yet reached a final decision on the matter, they were unlikely to opt in to enabling G.INP on existing ECI circuits.

I then asked if he was able to offer an explanation; whilst I was expecting a reply along the lines of “the risk of non SIN498 compatible CPE etc., etc.”, what he actually said was, “Because of the effect it might have on off-net connections”.

I asked him what exactly he meant by “off-net connections”, to which he replied, “commercially sensitive so can’t elaborate”.

Any ideas?
Bill

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 15, 2020, 08:44:27 AM
Sadly if zen don't give us the opportunity to benefit from it I for one will be looking to move to an ISP that will ???
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on June 15, 2020, 09:35:32 AM
It is a pity Plusnet don't appear to have any comment especially as they seemed to be good on the first round of the trial.  The original post on Plusnet forums has been marked as resolved for weeks.

If anyone has any info or can get some info that would be great :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Ronski on June 15, 2020, 10:27:01 AM
From Googling it seems that on-net is supplied  over equipment owned by the ISP, so off-net maybe when they are using others equipment owned by others, so might be the difference between using BT back haul and TT for instance, over Zens own, off net probably complicates things when there is a problem.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on June 15, 2020, 10:40:31 AM
I got a different reply from Tech Support:


"Thank you for your email, I have been investigating this and unfortunately we cannot opt Openreach to implement G.inp on your line. Is it their infrastructure and have been implementing it over the years so it will happen once they plan it to go on your cabinet. So in answer to your question we do have them on our lines but we have no say in when it is implemented."

For what it is worth, I have replied to clarify the difference between ECI and the general implementation and referenced the NGA briefing, but I think we are out of luck with Zen!

I too suspect I will leave when my contract is up, depending on what the take-up is with other ISPs. I assume BT will be opting in?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on June 15, 2020, 12:23:00 PM
I spoke with my provider (EE) and they have no ide if EE will opt in for this. Probably time for changes, got few months more with EE and will look at autumn for different provider.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 15, 2020, 12:50:01 PM
Some ISP who opts in is going to get a lot of new users if they are the only ones opting in  ;D

Can't really understand why Zen seem so reluctant...it seems to work so let us have it  ;D
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: g3uiss on June 15, 2020, 01:13:04 PM
Same problem here with Zen, a combination of not understanding and not willing, not like Zen really
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on June 15, 2020, 01:34:01 PM
Same problem here with Zen, a combination of not understanding and not willing, not like Zen really
Maybe they'll join the dots. Whilst it is a tiny number of people, relatively, several people suddenly enquiring about the same thing will hopefully be snagged somewhere...

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: BungalowBill on June 15, 2020, 02:21:41 PM
@Ronski

I’ve been doing some digging, regarding what he meant by “off-net”:

It would appear that Zen aren’t just buying backhaul from TalkTalk Wholesale, they are buying FTTC End User Access from TalkTalk as well.

i.e. Where Zen are using TTW backhaul, from an OLT (head-end exchange) location, they are also buying the end user access from TalkTalk, as a managed package, just like any other TTW re-seller would.

In those specific instances, the enablement of G.INP would be down to TTW to request and not Zen.
No excuse in the case of circuits procured directly from Openreach, but it does complicate matters somewhat.

Bill
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Ronski on June 15, 2020, 04:00:05 PM
I suppose its just easier to say no to everyone, rather than explain why they can and can't.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 15, 2020, 08:18:06 PM
So I have had a few further emails now from Zen with a bit of progress. The person concerned has seen a number of related emails in regards to eci g.inp. asked for permission to send on my emails to their internal contact who may be dealing with this so a bit of movement perhaps...


Keep on at em!..  ;)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jon21 on June 15, 2020, 08:26:41 PM
So I have had a few further emails now from Zen with a bit of progress. The person concerned has seen a number of related emails in regards to eci g.inp. asked for permission to send on my emails to their internal contact who may be dealing with this so a bit of movement perhaps...


Keep on at em!..  ;)

I've just had an email saying pretty much the same thing. Good that they might be looking in to it.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on June 15, 2020, 08:27:28 PM
I've just had an email saying pretty much the same thing. Good that they might be looking in to it.
Likewise. Fingers and toes crossed!

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 16, 2020, 01:53:41 AM
Ironically I'm hoping Zen DON'T roll it out to people who did not request it.

G.INP on my Plusnet line did NOT like my HH5a with OpenWRT on it, and that is absolutely essential to keep my sync speed high on my Zen line with the SNR adjusted down to 3dB.  I'd end up with a slower connection if I had to go back to 6dB and the Zyxel.

Its a fascinating scenario when both lines are from the same cabinet and drop cable but dramatically different line conditions.  Zen on Fastpath and Plusnet fell onto Interleaved when I tried to push THAT line to 3dB SNR, so G.INP does help that one.

Now if Openreach would roll out 3dB and G.INP to ECI cabs, it would be the best of both worlds.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Ronski on June 16, 2020, 06:18:39 AM
But you're not supposed to be pushing your line to 3dB, wasn't it people using incompatible modems that caused problems the first time round?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on June 16, 2020, 09:10:08 AM
But you're not supposed to be pushing your line to 3dB, wasn't it people using incompatible modems that caused problems the first time round?
What if my line been pushed to 3db by DLM? Yesterday we had power cut and my modem sync faster than others on my cabinet what resulted to snr dropped to 3db to keep 7999500 sync speed. It's running perfectly fine like that as I didn't rebooted, no excess of errors etc, nice and stable.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Ronski on June 16, 2020, 10:24:35 AM
You've not forced your line to run faster at a lower dB, its a quirk of the system in your case, your modem came up quicker than others and therefore the system see's a low level of noise and sets the line accordingly. The other modems then come online creating additional noise and your dB reading drops, at the time of sync it would have been 6dB. If on a Huawei cabinet then these use dBx and are designed to sync at lower than 6dB.

In some cases lines have known to stay synced at even 1dB, but if they resync they will go back to 6dB target unless on dBx.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: mrk26 on June 16, 2020, 10:53:25 AM
I'm on eci cabinet, and looking forward to get g.inp one day ;)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: sof006 on June 16, 2020, 01:29:55 PM
This is the reply I got in an email just today -

Quote from: Zen ISP
I have had confirmation about the g.inp trial, at the moment we are not in a position to opt into this as openreach have not yet completed there trials . If we do opt into this we will be able to provide some more information on this and when/if this will take place.

If you have any further issues please do let me know.

Kind regards

[Moderator edited to wrap the quotation in [quote][/quote] tags.]
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 16, 2020, 03:31:51 PM
But you're not supposed to be pushing your line to 3dB, wasn't it people using incompatible modems that caused problems the first time round?

Of course I'm not supposed to be, but can you really argue with this?
Line Uptime:
 51d 12h 44m 6s
Data Rate:
73.993 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Latency:
0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
(https://csdprojects.co.uk/forums/BroadbandLines2.png)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Ronski on June 16, 2020, 03:36:03 PM
Of course I'm not supposed to be, but can you really argue with this?]

That depends entirely on whether it's causing some one else issues  >:D
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: burakkucat on June 16, 2020, 03:36:31 PM
That reply from Zen is pure hog-wash.

Openreach have a trial in progress, for which they require testers. An ISP's customers can become part of the trial by the ISP making a request to Openreach.

One consequence of Zen's on-going negativity will be a loss of their customers.

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 16, 2020, 03:48:44 PM
That depends entirely on whether it's causing some one else issues  >:D

I don't think crosstalk ever works one-way, if it was causing a problem then my line would be unstable too?

Besides my Plusnet line SUCKS, I'm merely trying to balance that out with my good line.  :P
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 16, 2020, 05:50:10 PM
That reply from Zen is pure hog-wash.

Openreach have a trial in progress, for which they require testers. An ISP's customers can become part of the trial by the ISP making a request to Openreach.

One consequence of Zen's on-going negativity will be a loss of their customers.

Agreed. I have emailed my contact again just to clarify this and  he is supposedly collating the emails asking for zen to opt in to pass further up the chain....
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ejs on June 16, 2020, 09:21:39 PM
I don't think crosstalk ever works one-way

It does if someone with an Asus modem switches off UPBO.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 16, 2020, 10:14:31 PM
It does if someone with an Asus modem switches off UPBO.

That's true, but I get full sync on upstream so presumably even if I was an asshole and had hardware that stupidly allowed this, I would have no reason to disable it.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on June 18, 2020, 05:57:27 AM
Of course I'm not supposed to be, but can you really argue with this?
Line Uptime:
 51d 12h 44m 6s
Data Rate:
73.993 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Latency:
0.0 ms / 0.0 ms

Well that'll teach me, after the storms:
Quote
Actual Data Rate:   67.000 Mb/s / 20.000 Mb/s
Impulse Noise Prot:   0.0 sym / 0.0 sym
Interleave Delay:   0.0 ms / 0.0 ms
NFEC:         255 / 255
RFEC:         16 / 16
LSYMB:         17979 / 5410
Interleave Depth:   1 / 1
Interleave Block:   255 / 255
LPATH:         0 / 0
Line Attenuation:   13.0dB / 15.9dB
Signal Attenuation:   13.1dB / 15.8dB
Noise Margin:      5.7dB / 6.8dB
Transmit power:      13.8dBm / 4.6dBm
FECS:         0 / 12
ES:         1 / 40123
SES:         0 / 12
LOSS:         0 / 0
UAS:         140 / 140
HEC:         0 / 0
CRC_P:         0 / 0
CRCP_P:         0 / 0
15m Code Violations:   0 / 1
15m FEC Errors:      0 / 5
1d Code Violations:   4 / 38
1d FEC Errors:      59 / 142

Seems DLM has decided to make my banding even more aggressive so that my negative SNRm offset no longer works.
Guess I should be thankful I'm at least still Fastpath.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on June 20, 2020, 05:56:22 AM
That reply from Zen is pure hog-wash.

Openreach have a trial in progress, for which they require testers. An ISP's customers can become part of the trial by the ISP making a request to Openreach.

One consequence of Zen's on-going negativity will be a loss of their customers.



Not surprising, the CP can have a different desire to their own customers.  Openreach only hear what the CP tells them (as the CP is their customer), and the end user only believes what the CP tells them, leading to situations where openreach and end users can have a total disconnect.  Sometimes there may be an extra level with smaller isp's so e.g. end user > aaisp > ttw > openreach.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on June 21, 2020, 05:37:15 PM
Plusnet (Bob on their forums) has said they have no plans to add any people to the extended trial.  TLDR you will need to wait to see if OR roll it out to everyone.  I'm disappointed I'll just have to hope it is rolled out to everyone and it decides to enable for me.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 21, 2020, 05:41:47 PM
Plusnet (Bob on their forums) has said they have no plans to add any people to the extended trial.  TLDR you will need to wait to see if OR roll it out to everyone.  I'm disappointed I'll just have to hope it is rolled out to everyone and it decides to enable for me.

Been waiting 4 years for its return... considering it seems to work why not just roll it out to the rest of us.... not having much luck with Zen. First Isp that goes with the current trial I would seriously consider moving too..
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on June 21, 2020, 05:50:49 PM
Probably not worth swapping ISPs for (at least for me) a decision to roll it out to everyone must be due ”soon".  It sure feels like 4 years - we have waited this long hopefully a decision will be made soon.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on June 22, 2020, 02:02:45 AM
The trial is ongoing again now at least.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on June 22, 2020, 09:32:37 AM
It is concerning that no ISP appears to have opted in yet.  How can the trial be expanded if no one is joining it. 

Should OR just be picking a few more tens of thousands of lines at random?

Better yet just allow everyone to enable or disable Ginp.  Problem solved and already proved they can do it. 

There is absolutely no reason why ECI cab users shouldn't have Ginp available to them.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on June 22, 2020, 11:02:27 AM
plusnet and BTr are both opted in, TTw are now as well.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: broadstairs on June 22, 2020, 11:04:22 AM
Well I have had it turned on 11 days ago and I'm on ECI with TalkTalk but I've had no confirmation that TT are part of the trial even though I've asked on their community forum to be part of it and confirmed with the same thread that it has been enabled, I can only guess either TT are part of the trial or they are rolling it out anyway. Deafening silence from TT as per usual.

Stuart
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on June 22, 2020, 11:10:34 AM
Bear in mind, they not going to be enabling every line, it will just be a fraction.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on June 22, 2020, 11:55:30 AM
Bear in mind, they not going to be enabling every line, it will just be a fraction.
Conflicting reports on Plusnet forums Bob(?) said they were not activating any further lines in the trial and we had to wait for the rollout (if it comes).
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on June 22, 2020, 01:11:04 PM
Well I have had it turned on 11 days ago and I'm on ECI with TalkTalk but I've had no confirmation that TT are part of the trial even though I've asked on their community forum to be part of it and confirmed with the same thread that it has been enabled, I can only guess either TT are part of the trial or they are rolling it out anyway. Deafening silence from TT as per usual.

Stuart

Support don't know their a*** from their elbow.

Given it's a trial that requires the ISP to opt in its fair to assume Talktalk are taking some part in it.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: flilot on June 29, 2020, 03:17:57 AM
Briefly looked over this thread and noticed the lack of Zen apparently participating in this trial. 
Just logged into say I'm with Zen connected to an ECI cabinet and my line dropped in the early hours of Thursday 25th, to return shortly after with G.INP enabled.

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 29 Jun 2020 03:16:14

DSLAM type / SW version: IFTN:0xb206 (178.6) / v0xb206
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  4 days 2 hours 2 min 52 sec
Resyncs:                2 (since 13 Jun 2020 21:27:12)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  14.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 67000 20000
SNR margin (dB):        6.4 11.0
Power (dBm):            5.1 5.1
Interleave depth:        1 1
INP:                    46.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0198 0.1650
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0.61 2.74
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on June 29, 2020, 05:33:36 AM
Briefly looked over this thread and noticed the lack of Zen apparently participating in this trial. 
Just logged into say I'm with Zen connected to an ECI cabinet and my line dropped in the early hours of Thursday 25th, to return shortly after with G.INP enabled.

Code: [Select]
Stats recorded 29 Jun 2020 03:16:14

DSLAM type / SW version: IFTN:0xb206 (178.6) / v0xb206
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  4 days 2 hours 2 min 52 sec
Resyncs:                2 (since 13 Jun 2020 21:27:12)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  14.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 67000 20000
SNR margin (dB):        6.4 11.0
Power (dBm):            5.1 5.1
Interleave depth:        1 1
INP:                    46.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.0198 0.1650
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                0.61 2.74

Wow.. jackpot for you.. I am with Zen so hope our persistence has paid off??.... perhaps I might finally get it back at some point soon.... thanks for letting us know...
Zen told me if they did take part they couldn't let me know if they did.... :shrug2:
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on June 29, 2020, 10:07:51 AM
Just logged into say I'm with Zen connected to an ECI cabinet and my line dropped in the early hours of Thursday 25th, to return shortly after with G.INP enabled.

Do you know if you are on Zen GEA or WBMC?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on June 29, 2020, 10:16:01 AM
Nothing yet for me on Zen WBMC

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: flilot on June 29, 2020, 03:25:06 PM
Do you know if you are on Zen GEA or WBMC?

WBMC according to the portal.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: MTW on June 29, 2020, 05:47:19 PM
Has G.INP been enabled for anybody on BT? Still nothing here in north London.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on June 29, 2020, 06:01:23 PM
Has G.INP been enabled for anybody on BT? Still nothing here in north London.

Nothing on the BT Forums. Haven't seen a single BT connection with it either.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: MTW on June 29, 2020, 07:01:12 PM
I had hoped that BT would be among the first to opt in to Openreach initiatives, given the historic link between the two companies. Obviously that was too optimistic!
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on June 30, 2020, 11:38:53 AM
I too am a bit surprised they didn't participate, although I believe if the ISP puts the full customer base forward (as opposed to specified lines) for trials then 50% are retained in as 'control group'. In cases such as this Openreach advises the SP a list of those on the trial and those in the control group... and the ISP has a few days to submit any changes.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Chrysalis on July 04, 2020, 09:06:45 PM
will i remain the only one here to have never had g.inp i wonder.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on July 04, 2020, 09:10:10 PM
will i remain the only one here to have never had g.inp i wonder.
Nope. I'll be joining you.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: cbdeakin on July 06, 2020, 03:19:16 AM
The G.Inp trial finishes around August doesn't it? Are you guys just gonna wait for that? As there doesn't seem to be much else people on ECI cabs can do.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Bowdon on July 08, 2020, 12:40:31 PM
I don't think I've ever had G.INP on either.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Jasonkruys on July 16, 2020, 08:14:26 PM
For what its worth still nothing here

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on July 17, 2020, 07:24:22 AM
Nothing at my end either. 

I am not sure if anyone has got it unless they asked for it.

I would have expected a few (more) posts of people saying they have had it enabled if any significant expansion of the trial was happening.

If anyone knows of when we can guess the next phase to be announced be it expansion or cancellation that would be great?

Thanks
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on July 17, 2020, 12:22:45 PM
Since the trial was expanded I've only seen 1 Talktalk and 2 Zen lines with G.INP on ECI.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on July 17, 2020, 01:07:13 PM
Been backwards and forwards with Zen support. They have said they have no control over which lines get it. Going round in circles so have given up for now.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on July 17, 2020, 02:28:01 PM
Has anyone seen any posts anywhere ECI GINP has been blamed for a problem with their line? 

I've not seen anything negative I am just hoping that a more wider rollout is going soon or even it being rolled out to everyone.

Once GINP is rolled out I can then start with hoping for 3db.  I can dream :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on July 17, 2020, 04:22:06 PM
My Home Hub 5A with OpenWRT on it couldn't hold a stable sync with G.INP but I believe the "official" firmware may do.  Can't really see how they could roll it out if they hadn't fixed their own firmware.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: MTW on July 17, 2020, 06:02:34 PM
Still nothing on BT. They seem completely uninterested in the trial, so I don't expect to get G.INP unless/until it's rolled out to all ECI cabs.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: burakkucat on July 17, 2020, 06:18:12 PM
My Home Hub 5A with OpenWRT on it couldn't hold a stable sync with G.INP but I believe the "official" firmware may do.  Can't really see how they could roll it out if they hadn't fixed their own firmware.

Your BT Home Hub 5A was supplied by BT Retail. Openreach are not BT Retail. BT Retail are not Openreach. The firmware for the BT Home Hub 5A was created for, and distributed by, BT Retail.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on July 17, 2020, 06:59:51 PM
Your BT Home Hub 5A was supplied by BT Retail. Openreach are not BT Retail. BT Retail are not Openreach. The firmware for the BT Home Hub 5A was created for, and distributed by, BT Retail.

True, but as they discontinued the previous trial due to hardware problems and AFAIK HH5A was a big part of that, what makes that any different today?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: burakkucat on July 17, 2020, 10:12:51 PM
. . . what makes that any different today?

The complete severage of the inter-company links has now taken place.  :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on July 18, 2020, 12:06:43 AM
True, but as they discontinued the previous trial due to hardware problems and AFAIK HH5A was a big part of that, what makes that any different today?

What makes you think it was the HH5A?

I don't think anyone has the slightest clue what modems resulted in the last trial being stopped.

It wasn't necessarily the modems that saw issues during the very 1st rollout.
Those modems saw increased latency and a drop in sync.

The last trial was stopped due to a bitswapping issues but that's the only details OpenReach gave.

My Home Hub 5A with OpenWRT on it couldn't hold a stable sync with G.INP but I believe the "official" firmware may do.  Can't really see how they could roll it out if they hadn't fixed their own firmware.

That's assuming those in bold are 1 and the same entity.

Unless by the 2nd "they" you were referring to OpenReach and their ECI modem.  ::)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: kitz on July 18, 2020, 03:13:33 AM
Has anyone seen any posts anywhere ECI GINP has been blamed for a problem with their line? 

I've not seen anything negative I am just hoping that a more wider rollout is going soon or even it being rolled out to everyone.

Once GINP is rolled out I can then start with hoping for 3db.  I can dream :)


It's not worked out too well for my line :'(

The problem isn't so much G.INP but rather G.INP is totally ineffective with certain types of REIN and SHINE.   My line suffers from a daily burst of SHINE each day that lasts for a couple of seconds and then is ok for the rest of the day.   No amount of G.INP or Interleaving is going to be able to correct that burst of noise, but problem being the DLM sees it and thinks it should try correct it.    Doesnt help that ECI cabs are not following the #error seconds rule and is penalising lines with much lower amounts of err secs.

This is a summary of how its worked out on my line.   I'm currently banded at 60Mpbs with High Re-TX   :( 

Code: [Select]
16/03/2020 No G.INP Connection speed (kbps): 66037 20000
17/03/2020 G.INP applied Connection speed (kbps): 68019 20000
29/03/2020 Resync modem Connection speed (kbps): 68960 20000
11/04/2020 DLM > Retx High Connection speed (kbps): 67984 20000
13/04/2020 DLM > Capped 67Mbps Connection speed (kbps): 66999 20000
23/04/2020 DLM > Capped 60Mbps Connection speed (kbps): 60000 20000


As you can imagine with re-tx high, then my actual throughput speed is <55Mbps :'(


 
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ejs on July 18, 2020, 03:32:48 PM
I don't think anyone has the slightest clue what modems resulted in the last trial being stopped.

Which was the last trial? The one in 2016 had an issue with Lantiq modems locking up for which updated modem firmware was available.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on July 18, 2020, 03:37:39 PM
I was on the 2016 trial.still waiting for this one...
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: grahamb on July 28, 2020, 05:25:30 AM
So anyway, I had notification around 2.35am from AAISP that my line had gone down/come back up. And would you Adam and Eve it....

(Spot the difference.  ;))

Before:

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 21412 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66011 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 55815 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.9             6.0
Attn(dB):        13.5            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        2.2             2.2

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           18              150
B:              51              236
M:              1               1
T:              64              5
R:              12              16
S:              0.0296          0.3771
L:              17272           5410
D:              1093            1
I:              64              255
N:              64              255

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            676057347               2099310
OHFErr:         0               2056
RS:             1271855815              3042399
RSCorr:         1820509         25498
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    767947071               0
Data Cells:     1075736016              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             11264           3344
SES:            27              0
UAS:            123             102
AS:             1287924

                        Bearer 0
INP:            3.00            0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          8               0
PER:            1.90            6.15
OR:             100.80          202.87
AgR:            55915.57        20203.27

Bitswap:        9633/9633               13123/13129

Total time = 25 days 3 hours 51 min 55 sec
FEC:            5516919         41426
CRC:            5101            3548
ES:             11264           3344
SES:            27              0
UAS:            123             102
LOS:            2               0
LOF:            16              0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 55 sec
FEC:            6               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            1               27
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 3 hours 51 min 55 sec
FEC:            7192            372
CRC:            0               23
ES:             0               21
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            43068           1460
CRC:            0               150
ES:             0               136
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 14 days 21 hours 45 min 26 sec
FEC:            1820509         25498
CRC:            0               2056
ES:             0               1883
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 >

After:

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 21383 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60203 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60013 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             6.3
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        2.3             2.3

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              150
B:              244             236
M:              1               1
T:              0               5
R:              10              16
S:              0.0000          0.3771
L:              15757           5410
D:              1               1
I:              255             255
N:              255             255
Q:              4               0
V:              3               0
RxQueue:                96              0
TxQueue:                32              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         31              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               1438949
OHFErr:         0               14
RS:             271135324               3291149
RSCorr:         44              126
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            548544          0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             5484825         0
RSCorr:         3               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         35              0
rtx_c:          16              0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        60001           0
errFreeBits:    8062063         0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1016872002              0
Data Cells:     616668          0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             11274           3366
SES:            37              0
UAS:            160             129
AS:             8814

                        Bearer 0
INP:            48.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.15
OR:             0.01            202.87
AgR:            60320.68        20203.27

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        606/606         283/283

Total time = 25 days 8 hours 57 min 59 sec
FEC:            5520839         41635
CRC:            10265           3574
ES:             11274           3366
SES:            37              0
UAS:            160             129
LOS:            3               0
LOF:            23              0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 59 sec
FEC:            0               6
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            9               26
CRC:            0               5
ES:             0               2
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 8 hours 57 min 59 sec
FEC:            11112           581
CRC:            5164            49
ES:             10              43
SES:            10              0
UAS:            37              27
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            7               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            43068           1460
CRC:            0               150
ES:             0               136
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 hours 26 min 53 sec
FEC:            44              126
CRC:            0               14
ES:             0               11
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 >

 ;D

I know my line now has G.INP applied but not sure what the new numbers mean; eg is it now on Fastpath? How does it look to the educated eye?
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: tubaman on July 28, 2020, 08:30:34 AM
Congratulations and welcome to G.INP!
You should be on Fastpath as I believe G.INP lines always are.
Hopefully in a few days your journey to 3dB on the downstream side will begin.
 :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: grahamb on July 28, 2020, 08:44:01 AM
3db? Even on an ECI cab?

Oh, hang on, the clue is in the thread title, isn't it....  :)
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: broadstairs on July 28, 2020, 09:23:20 AM
Yup, I've been on G.INP on my ECI cabinet for 47+ days now with no interruptions at all and no 3db either. I suspect this is just the G.INP test at present and they will want a lot more testing before changing anything else. I hope they dont want to mess anything up just as much as we dont want it either.

Stuart
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: ktz392837 on July 28, 2020, 09:56:51 AM
Is AAISP actively adding users to the trial or is this just a random lucky user added by Openreach?

Positive news that users are still being added I wish the trial rollout was quicker though.  I feel a decision for a full rollout may never happen and I'll have FTTP before Ginp on ECI!
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: skyeci on July 28, 2020, 07:21:36 PM
I'm with Zen. They told me it's down to OR and they couldn't request me to  be added even though I badgered them to sign up to the trial which they are now on...🙄🙄🙄
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: j0hn on July 29, 2020, 07:20:05 PM
AAISP say they have no control over who's added to the trial.

The ability for ISP's to add users manually went months ago with only Plusnet taking up that offer.
Title: Re: Openreach UK Trial Finally Brings G.INP to ECI FTTC Broadband
Post by: g3uiss on July 29, 2020, 07:40:20 PM
Do we know if / when the trial will end and or if they have had any issues ?