Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: IBeAdam on January 24, 2020, 08:29:17 PM
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Hi all,
I’m currently on the Radnage 7 cabinet for VDSL (FTTC), using IDNet as my ISP.
If I was to switch to Zen for both internet and phone is anything done physically at either the cabinet or exchange?
Currently I have an intermittent line fault which unfortunately is not bad enough for the ISP to agree to an engineer callout to the cabinet/exchange to diagnose. All local/internal equipment has been checked/replaced. I believe moving may be a way of getting it fixed if a physical switch is done, if you follow me.
Thanks all!
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Nothing is changed at the cabinet, you will still be on exactly the same line from the cabinet to your home.
If you want to change line, take out a new line, cancel the other one afterwards. Risk is the new line could be worse, and there could be costs involved.
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Then again, a change in ISP at least means a clean slate in support. They may be more willing to look into the issue as you're a new customer.
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Thanks all.
Might be worth a shot, at the very least I'll be paying £15/month less for an equally broken line ;)
Amazing my current ISP doesn't consider a drop in noise margin to 2db, 150,000,000 FECs a day, 15,000 CRCs, 1 or 2 line drops and intermittent inability to get an outside line (dial-tone won't break) as a fault worthy of investigation. "Just live with it".
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If your line is broken then Andrews and Arnold will fix it for you : https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/we-will-fix-your-line/
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If your line is broken then Andrews and Arnold will fix it for you : https://www.aa.net.uk/broadband/we-will-fix-your-line/
That looks very promising - thanks! Not cheap, but then I'm prepared to pay for a fix (just not a no fix!).
My phone line is also currently with IDNet. It appears for A&A they don't take on the phone line, so I would be better moving that first - perhaps back to good old BT?
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AA recommend people consider porting their phone number over to their own VoIP service.
Have a chat (https://www.aa.net.uk/etc/live-chat/) with them. They’re really friendly. They’ll tell you what’s what.
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AA recommend people consider porting their phone number over to their own VoIP service.
Have a chat (https://www.aa.net.uk/etc/live-chat/) with them. They’re really friendly. They’ll tell you what’s what.
Thank you - this seems a way forward :)
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We have quite a few Kitzens who are Zen users or AA users. Zen is a good ISP too; I was a Zen user and very happy with them but AA won out for me.
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Amazing my current ISP doesn't consider a drop in noise margin to 2db, 150,000,000 FECs a day, 15,000 CRCs, 1 or 2 line drops and intermittent inability to get an outside line (dial-tone won't break) as a fault worthy of investigation. "Just live with it".
From what you mention in the above post the ISP would only consider the voice/dial tone an issue.
150,000,000 FEC per day is around 100,000 a minute.
I got that all the time and others get considerably more.
FEC's are errors that didn't happen.
15,000 CRC's is hard to tell if it's an issue.
1 CRC can make 1 ES.
100 CRC's can be 1 ES.
ES is a much better indicator of line issues.
A drop in noise margin to 2dB is perfectly acceptable. That's the whole point in having a margin, it's meant to have the ability to fluctuate up and down.
My line regularly ran at under 1dB and occasionally with a negative dB.
None of the above are service affecting and are just part of VDSL. Without monitoring stats you would never notice high FEC, CRC or low SNRM.
Concentrate on the line drops and any dial tone issues. These are service affecting and any ISP should act on the dial tone issues.
1 or 2 resyncs a day isn't a huge amount although I understand the frustration it causes.
Can you let us know the daily ES numbers?
I'd take Ronski's advice.
If you are out of contract of near the end of it, order a 2nd line and when it's live cancel the 1st.
This gives a new line, on a new port on the DSLAM.
Any migration will be the exact same line connected to the exact same equipment and what you describe doesn't sound like an easy issue to track down.
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Hi Thanks for the helpful reply.
This isn't frustration aimed at your (helpful) post, but at the situation...
I haven't posted the full history of the issue, stats and what I've done in terms of diagnosis in this thread, but suffice it to say the issue has been going on since October 2019. Prior to that I had a stable connection (more or less, I'm not expecting perfection) for three years prior.
I understand no line is perfect, but after several years one builds up a profile for a particular line. If this profile dramatically changes overnight then something is wrong.
I have spent many many hours and £100+ following everything the ISP has asked of me. This has ruled out an internal issue.
I absolutely get I should be changed if the issue belongs within my realm. What I am not happy for is if an engineer to comes out, doesn't bother to check the cabinet/pole/exchange and simply says my connection is fine. I'm also not happy for the ISP to simply say "live with it" for £47/month. Not being able to (sometimes) make outgoing calls and multiple drops on a line that was stable is not normal.
BTW, about 500 ES errors a day.
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AA is very dedicated to getting lines fixed and they understand what it means to have a line working 100% not 95% working or working-ish. They can continually see what the line is doing thanks to their continuous quality monitoring graphs (https://support.aa.net.uk/CQM_Graphs).
I have several episodes of lightning damage in the past few months. One of these caused extensive damage across the entire area and many users were down for well over a week, but I never lost service as I have multiple AA DSL lines some of my lines sailed on ok and I also have AA failover to 3G too. I contacted AA that night, next morning BTOR was called out and they had one of my damaged lines fixed that afternoon.
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Thank you all, I'm going to call A&A tomorrow. Also interested in their VOIP solution as I'd rather have phone/internet with one provider, additionally BT is rather expensive if using them just for phone.
As an aside, today I re-wired everything (for the umpteenth time) adding a Tacima 6 Way Mains Conditioner and also my fourth modem (a Zyxel VMG1312-B10A).
As expected, no difference (3 drops today without warning) but the Zyxel does get a slightly higher rate sync, so I thing will work brilliantly on a non-fault line.
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I use A&A for broadband and Pulse8 for the line rental as they only charge £14.40 (inc.VAT) - also they charge to the second with no setup fee and only 1p per minute for landline calls at peak times.
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Just to update - I've initiated a migration to A&A, set for a couple of weeks. I'm also going to try their VOIP solution so transferring the phone too.
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Hi
Thank you all, I'm going to call A&A tomorrow. Also interested in their VOIP solution as I'd rather have phone/internet with one provider, additionally BT is rather expensive if using them just for phone.
As an aside, today I re-wired everything (for the umpteenth time) adding a Tacima 6 Way Mains Conditioner and also my fourth modem (a Zyxel VMG1312-B10A).
As expected, no difference (3 drops today without warning) but the Zyxel does get a slightly higher rate sync, so I thing will work brilliantly on a non-fault line.
I think you have just approached it all from the wrong side. If you are having issues with the dial tone and making calls it means there is a physical fault on your line which isn't uncommon. You simply report the issue as a problem with making voice calls, they send out Openreach that will like just remake a few joints along the route and do some tests and likely resolve it very quickly. Once that is fixed, so is your broadband.
I've had similar issues a few years ago with broadband, going up and down and syncing slow with errors through the roof, noticed crackles on the phone line, reported it as voice fault, that got fixed, and internet was all okay again. If I had reported it to my ISP as a broadband fault, I'd still be on my knees plugging things in and out of the test socket whilst I reboot the router for the millionth time. :lol:
Regards
Phil
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Hi
I think you have just approached it all from the wrong side. If you are having issues with the dial tone and making calls it means there is a physical fault on your line which isn't uncommon. You simply report the issue as a problem with making voice calls, they send out Openreach that will like just remake a few joints along the route and do some tests and likely resolve it very quickly. Once that is fixed, so is your broadband.
I've had similar issues a few years ago with broadband, going up and down and syncing slow with errors through the roof, noticed crackles on the phone line, reported it as voice fault, that got fixed, and internet was all okay again. If I had reported it to my ISP as a broadband fault, I'd still be on my knees plugging things in and out of the test socket whilst I reboot the router for the millionth time. :lol:
Regards
Phil
Done that unfortunately.
My ISP (who also manage the phone line, so cannot approach BT directly) runs a line test, which comes back ok. They say as no fault found I would have to initiate an OpenReach engineer callout. In those circumstances I am liable for payment if no fault is found. Due to the intermittent nature this is quite likely. The change is not small. I ask what can be done to move forward on this - "live with it" is the response.
A&A seem far keener to follow through on fixing things, just so long as I've tried all reasonable things my side and am happy to work with them.
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Done that unfortunately.
My ISP (who also manage the phone line, so cannot approach BT directly) runs a line test, which comes back ok. They say as no fault found I would have to initiate an OpenReach engineer callout. In those circumstances I am liable for payment if no fault is found. Due to the intermittent nature this is quite likely. The change is not small. I ask what can be done to move forward on this - "live with it" is the response.
A&A seem far keener to follow through on fixing things, just so long as I've tried all reasonable things my side and am happy to work with them.
No matter which ISP you go via, that callout charge if no fault is found levied. The difference is I'd expect A&A are less keen to pass it onto the customer if they are fairly certain themselves there IS a fault and Openreach missed it.
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No matter which ISP you go via, that callout charge if not fault is found levied. The difference is I'd expect A&A are less keen to pass it onto the customer if they are fairly certain themselves there IS a fault and Openreach missed it.
That is my hope too.
I'm perfectly agreeable to paying if it turns out to be my fault, but for an engineer to call and simply test the local socket without bothering to check the exchange/cabinet/pole for an intermittent fault is not acceptable.
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I’m with AA and this time last year both lines I had at that time went haywire, having huge bursts of ES at certain times of the day. After going through AA’s problem determination checklist they got OR out, but despite OR being able to see the line deterioration no fault was found and both lines were declared good. The OR guy spent a good couple of hours investigating, but I was not charged.
It was several months later that I discovered the cause of the SHINE and was able to eliminate it myself (but don’t tell AA or OR :no:).