Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: ssmmdd on December 27, 2019, 12:38:39 PM
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Hello, new member here, apologies if this is in the wrong place.
I'm shortly going to move into a ground floor flat of a new-ish (~5 year old) flat. The building is 3 floors and has as far as I'm aware 6 flats in total.
What's confusing me is that the BT Broadband / Exchange Checker says there's no fiber at all at the address that I'm moving to - in fact anyone on the street on that checker show as ADSL only.
On BT's website my address shows as ASDL only. But next door can get fibre. I don't understand how.
Can anyone help? I would be muchly appricative.
Thank you.
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Did you check by address or postcode? The most accurate would be if there is an existing phone line and you were able to check by number.
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I checked by address and post code. I don't have a number there yet, but going tonight with a phone so I can try 17070.
Both neighbours show as it being available, mine doesn't.
Have just noticed this on both neighbours on BT Exchange Checker: "Our records show the following FTTP network service information for these premises:- single Dwelling Unit Residential UG Feed with no anticipated issues.
FTTP is available and a new ONT may be ordered."
However, on mine it just says "FTTP is not available."
I don't understand why.
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Presumably the neighbours you are referring to are houses next door to the flats, rather than other flats in the same block?
For FTTP to be installed in blocks of flats Openreach require permission from the owner of the building to install the fibres to each flat, if this permission has not been granted then it can't be installed - best you check with the property management.
I'm a little confused by the following, the two bits in bold seem to contradict each other.
....in fact anyone on the street on that checker show as ADSL only.
On BT's website my address shows as ASDL only. But next door can get fibre. I don't understand how.
I take it you are using the BT Wholesale Checker (https://my.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_cid=ws_furls_adslchecker), and then clicking address - do not use the postcode option. Then just enter a postcode and press submit and it will give you a list of addresses for that postcode to choose from.
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Presumably the neighbours you are referring to are houses next door to the flats, rather than other flats in the same block?
For FTTP to be installed in blocks of flats Openreach require permission from the owner of the building to install the fibres to each flat, if this permission has not been granted then it can't be installed - best you check with the property management.
30 I believe is the house next to the flats. 28 is a flat in the same building as myself.
I'm a little confused by the following, the two bits in bold seem to contradict each other.
I take it you are using the BT Wholesale Checker (https://my.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/adsl.htm?s_cid=ws_furls_adslchecker), and then clicking address - do not use the postcode option. Then just enter a postcode and press submit and it will give you a list of addresses for that postcode to choose from.
Nope, used bt.com as if I was making an order. However I didn't know about that link - I'll have a look now. Cheers!
Edit to add:
Just noticed that 27 and 25 also don't have Fibre - have they only installed it to one side of the building? O.o
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Ronski's correct regarding FTTP, a wayleave has to be obtained from the landlord to cable any MDU (Multi-Dwelling Units). The wayleave covers each building, not each flat, so if your neighbours have it, you should be able to get it ??
Processes change constantly regarding MDU's and one of the latest used is to utilise 'Invisilight fibre' and run it to outside each premises, left terminated in a 'break-out box'.
Very surprising to see the SNM (Sales Note Marker) show as not available to you .... it may be an oversight during commissioning ??? Keep chasing it up.
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Ok, so I have news.
So the whole block doesn't have fibre. At all. Only ADSL. :'(
Every single other building in the area has (or can get) FTTP.
I'm assuming for some reason during the build it just wasn't installed. :rant: I have no idea how to find out if this is the case.
I assume my only course of action is to moan at the housing association and beg for them to get Openreach to install it.
Mainly because in 2025, there will be no ADSL...
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I'm wondering if your particular block wasn't captured within the planned-PON, whereby the others were ??
As with all things, there is a line drawn in the sand and that is where the job-pack would stop. We have very limited information to go on regarding lay-out, geography etc, so it can only ever be best-guess.
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I found where the phone lines come in for the flats - all together, it's a mess of cables going into and coming out of a white box.
Would I be able to put a picture of it on here?
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I assume my only course of action is to moan at the housing association and beg for them to get Openreach to install it.
Mainly because in 2025, there will be no ADSL...
Come 2025 there will be something else in place of ADSL, Openreach for example could install G.Fast just outside your building, alternatively you might have to use 4G/5G.
Have a chat with your neighbours in the other flats, see what information you can get from them, and also get them to sign a letter to the housing association asking them to get FTTP installed. Are your phone lines overhead on poles or underground?
What is 4G reception like in your new flat? You can get some great deals, such as unlimited data from Three for £18 a month, you'll need to research that 4G will suit your usage though.
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I found where the phone lines come in for the flats - all together, it's a mess of cables going into and coming out of a white box.
Would I be able to put a picture of it on here?
Yes.
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Come 2025 there will be something else in place of ADSL, Openreach for example could install G.Fast just outside your building, alternatively you might have to use 4G/5G.
Have a chat with your neighbours in the other flats, see what information you can get from them, and also get them to sign a letter to the housing association asking them to get FTTP installed. Are your phone lines overhead on poles or underground?
What is 4G reception like in your new flat? You can get some great deals, such as unlimited data from Three for £18 a month, you'll need to research that 4G will suit your usage though.
The 4G signal isn't great, and it has a bandwidth limit, that I would destroy in a week.
Yeah I'm gonna contact the housing association, but I'm 100% convinced they'll do nothing.
Underground. I'll get a picture the next time I'm at the flat.
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You must be going some to get through 1TB in a week :no: and it's only a soft limit, I'm sure someone on TBB got through 3TB in a month without any issues on Three, but if the signals not good then it's irrelevant anyway.
I'm pretty sure you're right about the housing association, as you say they won't be interested.
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Sorry for the delay. I can't attach the pictures here, they are too big.
So I've shoved them on my GDrive:
https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=1PLxanMJY94S-lGw6Bwbr8Lbv9PoTQBkQ
I've got BT to get Openreach to investigate.
I've contacted Openreach myself via a form.
Have also moaned at the letting agency, but I haven't heard back yet.
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I'm not sure what the first image shows . . . It looks like someone has used tape to cap off an open soil-pipe! :o
Images two and three show a standard "within premises" DP (distribution point), DP486. Perfectly normal, all neat and tidy.
Which is the serving telephony exchange for your flats?
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Which is the serving telephony exchange for your flats?
West Monkton, Cabinet 10.
https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WWWMON
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Thank you. :)
WWWMON, P10, DP486 . . . I wonder if Black Sheep can see anything relevant for the premises?
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Well I can see PCP10 which was created purely for the newsites being built 4 yrs ago .... but I can't see any PON's in the immediate and surrounding area whatsoever .... and I mean a sizeable area at that.
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What confuses me is that https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm says P5... *confused* ???
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What confuses me is that https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm says P5... *confused* ???
It matters not, I fear .... there are no PON's anywhere near your town, whatever the Cab. :-\
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I don't understand, how can the other people on the street and area have FTTP if there are none of these things? (please excuse my lack of knowledge here, this is new territory I'm entering here!)
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I have no idea unless it's from a different provider ... Gigaclear, VM, etc etc .... but from what I can see, there is no Openreach footprint there or nearby ??
Are you sure they have FTTP, the regulars on here will know how off-the-mark those on-line checkers can be ?? Even yourself has found that two different sites say you are fed off two different Cabs. ::)
I stand to be corrected as all I have is visual data, but it's always been correct before.
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May I PM you my address details so you can have a look yourself at the two sites?
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I wonder if there is some confusion between FTTP and FTTC? I.e. "those who can" only have a VDSL2 based solution. :-\
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I spoke to a neighbour in a house, they indeed do have FTTP - and are an Openreach engineer! He doesn't know why the block doesn't have fibre, as he's only copper trained.
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Probably this is wasting time,but
https://www.fibrebroadband.co.uk/availability/west-monkton/40802/
just in case it's pertinent.
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Now then .... my apologies .... there is indeed a wide OR FTTP footprint in your area. The problem i had was they use different joint codes 'darn sarf' !! Tsk !!
Purely a geography 'thang'.
Back to the drawing board now ......... ::)
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That's fine - you know way more than I do - no idea how you find out that information!
Guess I'm waiting for Openreach / housing association... :( :'( :fingers:
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Probably this is wasting time,but...
I read that link to refer to BT's Fibre Broadband as FTTC, with FTTP supplied by Virgin Media...and the website seems to have not been updated since 2015 ???
Am I missing something?
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I read that link to refer to BT's Fibre Broadband as FTTC, with FTTP supplied by Virgin Media...and the website seems to have not been updated since 2015 ???
Am I missing something?
Yeah, it confused me a bit too...
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Mainly because in 2025, there will be no ADSL...
As discussed here (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24205.0.html), in a thread started by Weaver, that statement is not correct.
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I read that link to refer to BT's Fibre Broadband as FTTC, with FTTP supplied by Virgin Media...and the website seems to have not been updated since 2015 ???
Am I missing something?
It is way out of date and they get the facts wrong, Virgins Project Lightning launched in mid 2015, so I very much doubt they were supplying true FTTP there in 2015 it would have been via coaxial cable. They also state you could get 100Mbps via FTTC, then go on to imply you can only get up to 38Mbps, they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
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That's fine - you know way more than I do - no idea how you find out that information!
Guess I'm waiting for Openreach / housing association... :( :'( :fingers:
You wouldn't think so, judging from my performance here ;) :lol: :lol:
There are quite a few systems that can be viewed to determine what plant is located where ??. For instance, your internal DP (the white box in one of your photo's), appears on one system, but not another ... the one that would have told me instantly the required info I needed ::).
But the penny dropped when I realised that the main system in use for both the external and internal workforce (ie: surveyors, planners), is relatively new and doesn't contain the data from your catchment area. Ergo, I then went looking at an older data-base and hey-presto, all was revealed.
There is sooooooooooooooo much data being input/extracted by tens of thousands of people, it is impossible to hold it all on one platform. The tricky bit is knowing where to look. :) :)
Absolutely your next move is to have your premises re-surveyed by OR (via your ISP).
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I'm still not sure Openreach have a record of where my line is jumpered in the PCP after the LAST time they disconnected me and hooked my E side up to some Talk Talk customer. ???
The Talk Talk customer got reconnected in a day or two as a line fault, my pair was left floating in the wind for a week because it was raised as a broadband fault. >:(
It only got fixed because eventually the engineer turned up to my house (as he had been given zero information) so I FINALLY had a chance to explain what the fault was, rather than them using pure guesswork and getting it wrong.
I do feel sorry for Openreach engineers, it seems they are expected to perform miracles with zero information sometimes. Its particularly frustrating when both me and my ISP knew more than the engineer did about the situation, because Openreach didn't pass anything on. :no: As I was on Origin at the time in the early days of the ISP, I literally had the CEO camped at my PCP at one point trying to catch an engineer to explain the situation, but they never turned up on time.
In their defence, I think I was still on Digital Region and it seemed Openreach was ill prepared for that kind of LLU setup so EVERYONE was confused. But it always comes down to poor record keeping it seems.
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It is way out of date and they get the facts wrong, Virgins Project Lightning launched in mid 2015, so I very much doubt they were supplying true FTTP there in 2015 it would have been via coaxial cable. They also state you could get 100Mbps via FTTC, then go on to imply you can only get up to 38Mbps, they clearly don't know what they are talking about.
Yep. They trialed FTTP in Papworth Everard in 2014 and started deployment in 2016 having started HFC in-fill in Manchester and Leeds, before Lightning announcement, in 2015.
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So, ADSL2+ is working and my FritzBox 7530 is reporting I'm getting
5887 kbit/s down
946 kbit/s up
Which is more than I was expecting (2.5 down, 0.5 up.)
Abyone wanna see my DSL line stats?
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Yes please ;D
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Yes please
See screenshot attached.
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That is really HIGH attenuation though getting 6mbps is pretty good for it,, how far do you think the exchange is ~?
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That is really HIGH attenuation though getting 6mbps is pretty good for it,, how far do you think the exchange is ~?
Apparently I'm 1.72km away in a straight line, so I'd at least double that.
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That attenuation seems off to me. My line was 3.9KM with 48.2 attenuation with part of that over aluminium. (at least that's what Openreach calculated)
There also AFAIK shouldn't be nearly as big a gap between upstream and downstream attenuation, although its not like you can always trust what the modem reports.
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yes I think this attenuation is not correct at all, can you post the modulation settings in your router?
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I'm not sure this Fritzbox gives me the modulation settings.
Or if it does, I don't know how to get it.
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I do not know about Fritzbox but I think it will be in the line settings, note that there may be some settings that needs to be hidden like service username.