Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Telephony Wiring + Equipment => Topic started by: adslmax on November 04, 2019, 08:42:56 PM

Title: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on November 04, 2019, 08:42:56 PM
Can I take some of this wiring off and use two pairs for the master socket from the bin cupboard to the hallway (Grey cable that go all the way to the underground to BT exchange) or leave it alone
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 04, 2019, 10:28:11 PM
I need to ask exactly what it is you would like to achieve? You've previously shown me a photograph of that BT52A and I'm sure I explained how the wires are connected.

Look at the incoming service feed cable, the thicker grey cable whose wires connect to the lower four terminals. From left to right the wires' insulation are coloured orange, white, green and black. The orange and white wires are pair number one. The green and black wires are pair number two.

Now look at the cable that goes through the wall into your hallway, the thinner cable whose wires are connect to the upper four terminals. From left to right the wires' insulation are coloured blue, orange, green and brown. The blue and orange wires are pair number one. The green and brown pair are number two.

Everything is connected correctly for two separate service feeds to the house. At some time in the past both were used. I cannot say, just by looking, which pair is currently active with your telephone and broadband service.

Making your own adjustments will not improve anything and has the potential to make things considerably worse.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on November 04, 2019, 10:58:47 PM
I thought removed some of it 2nd pair will improved G.fast speed?
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 04, 2019, 11:47:26 PM
Max, I would like you to go back and read through your "Staying with Plusnet with new offer deal (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23774.msg401342.html)" thread, dating from the latter part of August, this year. In particular, please take another look at what Kitz posted in reply number three..

You already have a very good VDSL2 service and would just be wasting money on G.Fast service. It might even turn out to be a poorer quality service than what you currently receive.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on November 05, 2019, 12:14:20 AM
This offer no longer because it haven't change due to my billing issues has been fixed until 23rd of October as this offer from 23rd of August still stuck as pending change on the account and PN cannot do anything about this offer made in August 23rd because the account was suspended at that time.

I only want to upgrade G.fast to double from 64 to 198Meg downstream.

My FTTC stats is no longer at 80Mbps now for a while.

xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   1
Max:    Upstream rate = 21264 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70529 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69251 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.1             8.7
Attn(dB):        12.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5            2.1
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 05, 2019, 12:44:48 AM
I only want to upgrade G.fast to double from 64 to 198Meg downstream.

There is no guarantee that you will obtain that download speed. Why not save the money and use the service that you already have?
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 05, 2019, 12:54:32 AM
Examining another picture that you previously provided, it looks as if your current master socket is connected to the first pair. So if you really want to "do something", slacken the third & fourth screws of the top row and carefully remove the green & brown wires.

If you loose both your telephone and broadband services, replace both of those wires!
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on November 05, 2019, 01:01:55 AM
Here is latest stats on my FTTC to G.fast
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on November 05, 2019, 01:04:09 AM
Examining another picture that you previously provided, it looks as if your current master socket is connected to the first pair. So if you really want to "do something", slacken the third & fourth screws of the top row and carefully remove the green & brown wires.

If you loose both your telephone and broadband services, replace both of those wires!

Will I get electric shock?
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 05, 2019, 01:20:03 AM
Will I get electric shock?

No. A normal telephony circuit would be in the 48 to 52V DC range. To the best of my ability (using a crystal ball, etc) the second pair is not actually connected.

However if you are concerned, just leave it alone.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on November 05, 2019, 01:28:03 AM
Done it, just removed Green and Brown on the top row carefully with my torch. The broadband and telephone still working on the master socket. Many thanks. :)

Do I need to rebooted modem to see if it kicked in 80Mbps back in?
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: ktz392837 on November 05, 2019, 04:07:10 AM
Here is latest stats on my FTTC to G.fast
The risk of the upload speed going down to 12Mb would put me off from going to Gfast on that line.  A supposing better product offering "half" the speed - no thanks.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 05, 2019, 04:01:41 PM
Done it, just removed Green and Brown on the top row carefully with my torch. The broadband and telephone still working on the master socket. Many thanks. :)

You are welcome.

Quote
Do I need to rebooted modem to see if it kicked in 80Mbps back in?

As you have not made any change to the live pair itself or even done anything that would influence the state of the service on the live pair, then no, a modem/router re-train will not do anything. Any difference that you might see would be down to the conditions prevalent at the time you initate a re-train.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 05, 2019, 04:05:01 PM
The risk of the upload speed going down to 12Mb would put me off from going to Gfast on that line.

Agreed. I don't think there is a pressing need for a G.Fast service and the current VDSL2 service should be more than adequate for Max's usage.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: re0 on November 05, 2019, 05:38:44 PM
I don't want to encourage Max to jump on G.fast, but since the Bandplan changes were made there is less chance that the upstream will actually be that low since G.fast can use slightly lower frequencies. This has not been reflected in any estimates on the DSL checker AFAIK.
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on November 19, 2019, 04:26:44 PM
Max, as we have fully exhausted the subject of the BT52A in your home's external bin cupboard (and the two pairs that were connected via it) I think the time has come for you to start a new topic.

To give you a prompt, I shall point you towards "Going to Take a VM Service (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24070.0.html)", that has been created in your name (with a little help from a black paw).  :angel:
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: adslmax on July 04, 2020, 01:50:28 PM
I was thinking to ask openreach engineer to move that junction box into the bottom of the cupboard from the top and cut off grey copper cable by 15m to improve line attenuation or it make no difference?
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: Westie on July 04, 2020, 05:25:54 PM
Although I am no expert, two things spring to mind:

1. 15 metres from the top of a cupboard to the bottom is a VERY big cupboard! Are you sure you have the right dimensions?

2. Reducing the line by 15m will have very little positive effect on the attenuation. If you need to make up the difference with a separate piece of cable, you would probably make things worse (by introducing another connection).

In short, don't do it!
Title: Re: Bin Cupboard Telephone Junction Box
Post by: burakkucat on July 04, 2020, 06:00:22 PM
I was thinking to ask openreach engineer to move that junction box into the bottom of the cupboard from the top and cut off grey copper cable by 15m to improve line attenuation or it make no difference?

It appears to be a distance of less than 1.5 metres and it will not make any difference to the overall attenuation of the circuit.

I don't think Openreach will be prepared to move it . . . unless you are prepared to pay the current list price for the task.