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Computers & Hardware => Apple Related => Topic started by: sevenlayermuddle on September 30, 2019, 09:30:39 AM

Title: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on September 30, 2019, 09:30:39 AM
I’m feeling strangely drawn towards the railway station, from which trains depart for a town with an Apple store that seems to have iPhone 11s in stock.   :-[

Any thoughts on iPhone 11 Pro?    I ‘m thinking of that one as it seems to be physically the smallest.  I think it has the same excellent OLED display that tempted me (nearly) to buy an XS last year.

Not too interested in the camera as I just can’t take the tiny lenses on mobile phones seriously, preferring to use ‘proper’ digital cameras.  But who knows, I might become a convert.

My previous (and current) iPhone, a 5C, has lasted me over 5 years so I feel I can justify the treat.

It’ll cost more than the first new car I remember Dad buying (mk1 escort, 1970), which I shall need to not think about at all.  :D
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Weaver on September 30, 2019, 10:09:57 AM
My wife has ordered one, attracted by the camera in it.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Ronski on September 30, 2019, 10:24:54 AM
Sort of off topic, but I just treated myself to a spy phone, sorry Huawei Mate 20 Pro, which has optical zoom and everything else I require of a phone, it came to the princely sum of £252, which is less than the price of my first car, brand new in a box collected from the O2 store Saturday, not bad for a phone that cost £900 a year ago  :cool:
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: tubaman on September 30, 2019, 11:00:22 AM
Sort of off topic, but I just treated myself to a spy phone, sorry Huawei Mate 20 Pro, which has optical zoom and everything else I require of a phone, it came to the princely sum of £252, which is less than the price of my first car, brand new in a box collected from the O2 store Saturday, not bad for a phone that cost £900 a year ago  :cool:

The camera on this phone confuses me as it has 3 lenses. Does it really give you optical zoom - ie you can move optically from 1X to 3X in a seamless fashion - or just a choice of fixed lenses to use?
 :)
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: gt94sss2 on September 30, 2019, 11:10:18 AM
Any thoughts on iPhone 11 Pro?    I ‘m thinking of that one as it seems to be physically the smallest.  I think it has the same excellent OLED display that tempted me (nearly) to buy an XS last year.

Not too interested in the camera as I just can’t take the tiny lenses on mobile phones seriously, preferring to use ‘proper’ digital cameras.  But who knows, I might become a convert.

My previous (and current) iPhone, a 5C, has lasted me over 5 years so I feel I can justify the treat.

If your current phone is a 5C and you’re not very seriously interested in phone cameras, save yourself several £100 and just get the standard iPhone 11. Trust me on this.

It will be a huge upgrade for you, the screen while not OLED is excellent and unless you are comparing the 2 models side by side, won’t notice the difference (and sometimes not even then). The camera is very good on the base model as well.

I’ve upgraded several family members from the 5S to the 11 and they are more than happy. I did invest some of the savings in paying the extra £50 to get the 128GB models rather than the base 64GB ones though.

Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on September 30, 2019, 12:50:32 PM
Ok thanks, the reason I’m focusing on the Pro mainly because it is the smallest.   Not by much, but when I compared XR and XS side by side, the size difference was noticeable.    Similarly, the OLED display definitely had the edge over LCD.   But I’ll make sure I take a fresh look at the 11s too. :)

I remain sceptical of the camera, but that’s not to say I won’t use it.   I’ve heard it said by people more serious about photography than I am, that sometimes your best camera is the one you have with you.

Per storage, yes I am tempted to bump up to 256GB from the basic 64GB, even though the 5C only has 8GB.   Can’t help feeling though that it’s only a matter of time before I give into the temptation to start paying subscription for more iCloud storage, hence offloading some stuff to Apple.  I wonder if doing that would reduce the need for phone memory upgrade?
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Ronski on September 30, 2019, 01:27:40 PM
The camera on this phone confuses me as it has 3 lenses. Does it really give you optical zoom - ie you can move optically from 1X to 3X in a seamless fashion - or just a choice of fixed lenses to use?
 :)

Having had a look it seems to give the choice of different fixed zoom levels of 1x, 3x, 5x, or 0.6x https://techcrunch.com/sponsored/inside-the-mate-20-pro-camera/

There is one very recent phone that uses a mirror at 45 degrees to give a true variable zoom by optics laid flat within the phone, can't remember what it is though.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: gt94sss2 on September 30, 2019, 02:30:13 PM
Ok thanks, the reason I’m focusing on the Pro mainly because it is the smallest.   Not by much, but when I compared XR and XS side by side, the size difference was noticeable.

The difference seems large especially when coming from a 5C/S but you quickly get used to it.

Quote
Per storage, yes I am tempted to bump up to 256GB from the basic 64GB, even though the 5C only has 8GB.   Can’t help feeling though that it’s only a matter of time before I give into the temptation to start paying subscription for more iCloud storage, hence offloading some stuff to Apple.  I wonder if doing that would reduce the need for phone memory upgrade?

I find the Google Photos app is your friend in these cases. Of course, if I really wanted the best camera I would be waiting for the new Pixel to come out in October.

It’s worth looking at some YouTube comparisons of the different models if you haven’t yet.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Weaver on September 30, 2019, 03:37:16 PM
Do iPhone users feel a need for large amounts of flash?

Stupid question coming : what do you find yourself doing that eats flash up?

I’m wondering about how to choose flash size in a phone. (Answer is I suppose, just get the largest there is always.)

For me on my iPad it’s only downloaded films. Janet has a lot of photos in her world but they are all pushed up and away into iCloud as required so I’m not sure exactly how much Flash is needed for them. In any event photos are tiny compared with movies of course.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on September 30, 2019, 04:08:36 PM
I have admitted that I am tempted to upgrade this time but in the past with Apple devices, whenever I have had a choice, I’ve gone for the basic, minimum storage.

I think a voice inside my head is telling one of two things will happen...

1)  I will remain sufficiently self-disciplined to keep an eye on storage, clearing out what’s not needed, and so I’ll never need much.
Or
2) I will simply let the device gradually fill, and buying more storage means it will take longer for that to happen.

The trouble with (2) is that, even though it takes longer to fill, if I just let it run and run, it will eventually happen.  So I’d eventually have to fall back on (1) after all.   I think that justifies going for a low storage option, within reason.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: gt94sss2 on September 30, 2019, 04:19:52 PM
what do you find yourself doing that eats flash up?

For most of my family, it seems to be (in no specific order) bearing in mind they keep their devices for several years:

- Photos/Videos - the higher the quality, the more space they take
- WhatsApp
- Facebook/Other Apps (there has also been a tendency for the average size of an app to increase as well as the number used)

Its also useful to store some things locally (Google Maps etc when travelling)

Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Chunkers on September 30, 2019, 10:27:01 PM
From what I understand the iPhone 11 is a year 3 product in their 3 yearly product cycle, so basically the iPhone 11 is an evolution of the iPhone X with a new camera but otherwise 3 year old design and hardware.

Next years iPhone will be a completely new generation based on their new architecture and much hyped new processors etc and also potentially USB-C

Imho better to wait til next year if you can......

I like Dave2D's reviews personally :

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDqmLrpMz7A[/youtube]
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on September 30, 2019, 10:54:59 PM
Thanks, Chunkers but my 5C being stuck on iOS 10, I feel compelled to take the leap.

The review seems to focus heavily on the camera but, as stated earlier, that’s not really a factor for me.   I’m quite ‘into’ photography and, maybe because of that, I just can’t take mobile phone cameras seriously.    I see the camera purely as a toy, albeit quite a nice toy I will enjoy playing with.

The future USB-C aspect also, is also not a pull for me.   When we travel, we do so with 2xiPads and 2xiPhones, so it is more useful if all accept the same charging cables.  Even at home, there is a small table in the corner of the lounge serving as a ‘charging farm’, 4 x Apple chargers, just grab a lightning cable and plug it in.  Visitors appreciate that too. :)

One little recognised fact of the 11 Pro btw, is I believe, it ships with a fast 18W charger.  Other Apple devices won’t benefit (but will still charge), whilst capable devices should charge much faster.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: dee.jay on October 01, 2019, 11:54:41 AM
My OnePlus 5T's dash charger would like a word - 0-80% in 40 minutes, or something daft. Charger is 4A :|
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: g3uiss on October 01, 2019, 02:31:42 PM
All you Iphone 11users must be on iOS 13 at least. Is anybody suffering the bug with duplicate emails in the sent folder. Seems even 13.1.2 still has this bug there is a fairly long Apple forum thread on it

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250651630?answerId=251288720022

Tony
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 01, 2019, 02:41:11 PM
My OnePlus 5T's dash charger would like a word - 0-80% in 40 minutes, or something daft. Charger is 4A :|

Fast charging is certainly something I think I’d appreciate.    I’m probably not the only person with this weakness but whilst I generally recharge every evening, the time I forget is always the time I have somewhere to go the next morning, and need  to leave in a hurry. :)

I think it also supports Qi wireless charging, which I know nothing about.   It might be nice to not have to fiddle with the cable, especially as lightning cables have always been somewhat fragile.   At a quick glance though, many of the Qi chargers seem to be ugly, clunky looking things.   Maybe that’s inevitable, a consequence of what’s inside.   Anybody used them, for iPhones or others?

All you Iphone 11users must be on iOS 13 at least. Is anybody suffering the bug with duplicate emails in the sent folder. Seems even 13.1.2 still has this bug there is a fairly long Apple forum thread on it

Oh dear, that sounds depressing.    We’ve not yet updated our other iOS devices to 13, I usually wait a few weeks until the dust has settled.  But as you point out, I’ll not have that choice on a new device. :(
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: g3uiss on October 01, 2019, 03:13:55 PM
Fast charging is certainly something I think I’d appreciate.    I’m probably not the only person with this weakness but whilst I generally recharge every evening, the time I forget is always the time I have somewhere to go the next morning, and need  to leave in a hurry. :)

I think it also supports Qi wireless charging, which I know nothing about.   It might be nice to not have to fiddle with the cable, especially as lightning cables have always been somewhat fragile.   At a quick glance though, many of the Qi chargers seem to be ugly, clunky looking things.   Maybe that’s inevitable, a consequence of what’s inside.   Anybody used them, for iPhones or others?


I’ve used wireless charging for about a year. It’s very efficient I wouldn’t  go back to a cable connection. Quite a lot of choice about either flat or as a stand chargers. I’ve used both with 100% success.

Tony
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: dee.jay on October 01, 2019, 03:15:29 PM
Fast charging is certainly something I think I’d appreciate.    I’m probably not the only person with this weakness but whilst I generally recharge every evening, the time I forget is always the time I have somewhere to go the next morning, and need  to leave in a hurry. :)

I think it also supports Qi wireless charging, which I know nothing about.   It might be nice to not have to fiddle with the cable, especially as lightning cables have always been somewhat fragile.   At a quick glance though, many of the Qi chargers seem to be ugly, clunky looking things.   Maybe that’s inevitable, a consequence of what’s inside.   Anybody used them, for iPhones or others?

Oh dear, that sounds depressing.    We’ve not yet updated our other iOS devices to 13, I usually wait a few weeks until the dust has settled.  But as you point out, I’ll not have that choice on a new device. :(

Wireless charging hasn't been that much of an interest to me. The quick charging is a godsend, especially as I tether remotely from time to time and that munches battery.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Chunkers on October 01, 2019, 03:23:15 PM
I have used wireless Qi charging for years now, my last 3 phones supported it (obviously not Apple), personally I think once you get used to it and place a few charging pads strategically you will never go back.

I like never having to fiddle around plugging in my phones and devices, my preferred devices are the little dock (https://www.amazon.co.uk/CHOETECH-Wireless-Charging-Compatible-Qi-Enabled-Black/dp/B07J4DPG9S/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=qi+dock&qid=1569939535&sr=8-3)s which are super cheap.  They are not particularly fast but since I have on on my desk and by my bed I never really notice.  When I come back into the office I just plop it on the dock or pad (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Anker-PowerWave-Wireless-Qi-Certified-Compatible-Black/dp/B07DBX67NC/ref=sr_1_5?crid=NFNN5JNDZ8SW&keywords=qi+pad&qid=1569939687&sprefix=qi+pad%2Caps%2C332&sr=8-5).
My wife is now a convert with her iPhone 8, I think once you get used to never plugging in you will enjoy it!

C
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 01, 2019, 04:10:56 PM
Thanks for feedback re Qi.   If I do buy the phone, I can imagine a Qi charger going on my letter to Santa later this year. :)
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: gt94sss2 on October 01, 2019, 04:38:48 PM

One little recognised fact of the 11 Pro bw, is I believe, it ships with a fast 18W charger.  Other Apple devices won’t benefit (but will still charge), whilst capable devices should charge much faster.

I found https://youtu.be/CVda_Tx_VFE (https://youtu.be/CVda_Tx_VFE) helpful.


iPhone 11's also support fast charging (and wireless charging) even though they bundle the standard charger in the box.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Ronski on October 01, 2019, 07:43:36 PM
I've used Qi charging for years, I would never buy a phone without it now. First trying it with my S4 back in 2014, but that didn't work very well as I couldn't stop the phone illuminating every time it reached full charge, the illumination would wake me up. I then bought an Elephone P9000 in early 2016 which had Qi charging built in and that worked perfectly, simply place it on the pad when I go to bed, and it's fully charged in the morning - so long as I've got it lined up correctly on the pad. The P9000 came with a fast charger and was USB C, but it's so much nicer not to have to bother to plug in cables, and as I normally charge overnight it doesn't matter if it takes a while. I've also installed a phone holder in the car which has a built in Qi charger, which is great on long trips and tops the phone up a bit on shorter ones.

There is so much choice when it comes to Qi chargers there's got to be one that every one likes, mine is very basic looking thing, but it does what I need it to and it's on my bedside table so doesn't need to look anything special.

I don't like Apple, but it's great news that they've finally added Qi charging to recent models, as there are not many phones that support, so hopefully more will follow suit. This is one reason why I jumped at the chance to buy the Huawei Mate Pro 20 at a knock down price, it had everything that I want in a phone, but was previously too expensive. It even supports reverse Qi charging, something apparently the iPhone 11 does but Apple have chosen to disable it in software (https://www.techspot.com/news/81895-iphone-11-reportedly-has-two-way-wireless-charging.html), mind you it's not a feature I can see being used very often.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 01, 2019, 09:00:09 PM
One thing worries me about the cheap Qi chargers, is safety.

We’ve known for years that cheap, fake branded, usb power bricks are often dangerous, and have set homes on fire.     We can deal with that hazard by buying official products Apple/Samsung etc bricks, even if they cost more and I have always done so.

Yet I am personally very fussy about any device that will be left powered on 24/7, or even just overnight.   So, what confidence can I have that the cheap Qi chargers, from unheard of manufacturers, or even from slightly dodgy ones like Belkin,  are really safe?
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Ronski on October 01, 2019, 09:15:35 PM
Simple answer is you can't, same goes for anything you buy, even from a decent manufacture but of course its less likely.

My Qi charger is USB powered (as I think most are), so you could buy a name brand you trust for the bit that handles 240v, that leaves just the 5v Qi charger (is 5v likely to catch fire???), so again buy a name you trust.

I used to use a smart plug to switch the power on over night for my Qi charger, but then I figured the smart plug probably used more power than the Qi charger left powered on all day, suppose I could use a mechanical timer, but I suspect the power is negligible. And of course the timer could always catch fire to.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 01, 2019, 11:11:18 PM
I’d say an outbreak of fire is just as likely, if not more likely, with a charger connected via USB vs mains.

If the charger is drawing (say) 10 watts to charge a battery, it will draw a current of just over 40mA down a 230V mains lead. There’s not many circumstances where 40mA can produce enough heat in a conductor to ignite it, especially a mains lead rated for perhaps 100 times that current.

But from 5V USB, to produce the same 10W, 2A will flow down the (probably much thinner) conductors.   Plenty enough to start a fire, under fault conditions. 

I always take things apart when they fail, to see what broke.   Where there is evidence of any kind of burn-up it is nearly always on the low voltage side of the circuit, as that’s where currents are higher.

My most recent observations of such burn ups are often due to wires being fractured due to repeated stress (an oscillating fan) or having insulation punctured due to poor routing (an automatic night light).   That is not bad luck, it is shoddy design and manufacture.  Buying from a manufacturer with a reputation he doesn’t want to lose, really should reduce the risk.

Just my opinion, backed by personal observations that may not be reflected elsewhere. :)


Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Chunkers on October 02, 2019, 03:32:09 PM
I share your paranoia about fires, Qi chargers typically don't come with a charger / PSU and only operate 5-12V so pretty low risk, the charger is the big risk.

IMHO the best thing to do is only buy a charger, even a cheap one, from a UK branded supplier e.g. the Amazon (https://www.amazon.co.uk/AmazonBasics-Dual-Port-USB-Wall-Charger-White/dp/B0773K5ST1/ref=sxin_5_pb?keywords=phone+charger&pd_rd_i=B0773K5ST1&pd_rd_r=b3b7150b-1758-4b30-ae1d-1f7215edf0ad&pd_rd_w=KmnEm&pd_rd_wg=RFu58&pf_rd_p=e34063c7-c3cb-4368-8c04-3ced508fb1c2&pf_rd_r=BY3JKAA070C79KV9TZ2N&qid=1570026659) or IKEA branded ones should meet the EU standards and are not that expensive.

Some of the cheap ebay - Chinese - street vendor devices are very unsafe, I am sure you have seen the Youtube videos. If you want to get fancy you could always buy a pirl charger (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/pirl-charger#/) - awesome but expensive ;D
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Ronski on October 02, 2019, 03:47:36 PM
Yes, I really should have thought about the lower voltage higher current as work with 12/24v systems.

Talking about stupid designs, I had to replace a metal power steering pipe the other week. It had a hole blown in it where the main battery cable to the starter had arced out as it was extremely close and had managed to touch, extremely lucky that it didn't catch fire. 24v with two huge 12v truck batteries it most have look like arc welding. Only option I had when refitting was to wrap the pipe and terminal with self amalgamating tape as neither could be moved far apart, just a very bad design.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 02, 2019, 05:55:49 PM
I’ve actually lost faith in Amazon Basics brand as well, these days.   I bought 2 x car Apple lightning chargers, they worked well.   One day, I discovered my car’s 12V accessory supply was dead, the 20A fuse having blown.

Culprit was the Amazon charger.   On taking it apart, a spring that operated the contact ‘plunger’ had broken through its mounting restraint, which was the flimsiest whisker of plastic you can imagine.   This had allowed a short circuit, hence blown the fuse.   But heck, that fuse was 20A, they don’t blow easily, I think it was pure luck the thing hadn’t caught alight by the time the fuse blew.

Of course, as I had two of them, I then checked the other one.   The same plastic spring restraint was cracked and broken, ready let go at any moment, shorting just like the first. :o

Incidentally, now far of topic, you really don’t want to have to replace that fuse in a Volvo.  There are many fuse boxes around the car, some more accessible than others.  That one is beneath the steering column, tucked up inside an access panel on the dashboard moulding, facing down towards the pedals.   I won’t try to describe the body posture required to get at it, but it would have given the neighbours something to think about if they’d seen me. :D
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: Ronski on October 02, 2019, 07:12:19 PM
No need to describe, I'm well used to those body postures, but getting older I find them harder.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 07, 2019, 09:54:36 AM
Still failing on this one.    I actually went into town last week and took a closer look.   I basically decided to buy one, and they had one in stock, but I decided to chew on it just a little longer, so came home without it.  Big mistake.   ::)

They've not been in stock again at my nearest shop, ever since.  Then, this morning, I checked during morning tea, and whoopee.. in stock!  I finished my tea then stepped into the garden for a big deep breath of fresh air, and final chance to rethink.  My mind hadn't changed so I dusted off my bank card, and sat down to order.  You guessed, by that time, out of stock again!   :D

They are of course available for delivery, but delivery time is a couple of weeks and I'm not noted for my patience.
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: parkdale on October 07, 2019, 10:42:34 AM
I bought one of these of the other half's phone, which uses USB 3.0 cable. It turns out that in order to use QI charging on her phone, USB 3.0 connections are required on both ends!
So I purchased one of these....  in 30-40 minutes it can charge to 80%+ then ramps down the rest. Good solid buy..
 https://www.anker.com/uk/products/variant/powerport--usbc-port/A2012211
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 07, 2019, 11:24:12 AM
Thanks, Parkdale.   I hadn’t realised that Qi chargers might need an additional power brick.

Apple actually push a few 3rd party Qi chargers themselves, including one from Morphie at £35, that I think includes its own (non USB) power brick.     Can’t help thinking that, unusually for Apple, allowing them a reasonable premium as retailer, that might actually be a reasonable price?
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: parkdale on October 07, 2019, 12:04:47 PM
Sorry I intended to say USB C-C connection, variations of USB 3.0  :blush:
Title: Re: iPhone 11
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on October 07, 2019, 04:24:04 PM
Mission accomplished.  :)

I noticed they were 'available' again in the afternoon, this time didn't dither. As long as I make it home on the train without being mugged, I'll be the proud owner of an '11 Pro.

 Chunker's point about 3 year cycles was a good one that did get me worried.  But I also reasoned, if there is some wondrous new format launched next year,  chances are there will be a wondrous price hike too.  And the price tag of 11 Pro is already stretching credibility imho.