Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: neil on September 29, 2019, 06:46:28 PM
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hi i am from Pakistan and here my isp ptcl has launched vdsl2. I read about INP and interleaver depth on this website and i want to know what you think of my stats and any tips to increase quality of line. And please help me understand what the values like INP (DMT symbol) and interleaver depth tell about config of dslam
i am sharing here 2 stats screenshot one recent one with 16ms delay and other one old when fast path was active with 2ms delay
and my pkg is 15mb download with 8mb upload speed and extra speed is for iptv
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Welcome to the kitz forum. :)
I'll just say that, after a quick look, your circuit is operating quite well. I'm sure that one of our knowledgable members will be able to give you some guidance of the various parameters appear in the statistics.
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Your line is capable of about 65/40.
Syncing around 20/8
High Interleaving with 16ms delay added to the downstream.
No G.INP which is a shame.
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thanks for reply yes it is 20mb with iptv it was synced at 17000kbps without iptv
vdsl2 was installed in jan 2019 and before that i was using 2mb adsl2 which was very bad with frequent disconnects
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Your line is capable of about 65/40.
Syncing around 20/8
High Interleaving with 16ms delay added to the downstream.
No G.INP which is a shame.
can you please share how you can tell G.INP is not enabled is it last one in stats INP(DMT symbol)
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Welcome to the Forum Neil:
> Can you please share how you can tell G.INP is not enabled
More the absence of things? Can’t see any mention of G.INP-related stats, that’s what I think. But then I don’t know what I’m talking about as I don’t have VDSL2.
> is it last one in stats INP(DMT symbol)
I think not. That’s something confusingly similarly named if I’m not mistaken, which I very well might be.
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Bearer 1 not in use.
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Bearer 1 not in use.
path 0 and path 1? they are called bearer? my telephone wire is single twisted pair coming from pole? that's why only path0 showing stats and path 1 is empty?
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path 0 and path 1? they are called bearer? my telephone wire is single twisted pair coming from pole? that's why only path0 showing stats and path 1 is empty?
No, that's not the case.
I can see how it can appear to be confusing but Bearer 0 (or Path 0) and Bearer 1 (or Path 1) do not relate to the physical cable (the infrastructure) but are entities within the VDSL2 (ITU-T G.993.2) service.
If G.Inp (ITU-T G.994) is active on the line then there will be some data present under the Bearer 1 (or Path 1) heading in the statistics.
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Would just like to point out that the OP is in Pakistan - we'd have no idea if they even have G.INP on their equipment?
Maybe they use ECI? I'm afraid I am not an expert in the nuances of FTTC in other countries..
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Would just like to point out that the OP is in Pakistan - we'd have no idea if they even have G.INP on their equipment?
Maybe they use ECI? I'm afraid I am not an expert in the nuances of FTTC in other countries..
when MSAG was installed i was there and it is ZTE MSAG here is the picture
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Yeah we don't use ZTE here in the UK, kit is either ECI or Huawei...
Excellent you've been able to provide the name of it though. No doubt some of us will be googling to find the capabilities
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Yeah we don't use ZTE here in the UK, kit is either ECI or Huawei...
Excellent you've been able to provide the name of it though. No doubt some of us will be googling to find the capabilities
in pakistan PTCL is using mix of msags in some cities huawei and in my area they installed ZTE
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fast path is again activated on my line here are the new stats and i want to know why attainable is lower compared to interleaved path?
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Welcome to the kitz forum. :)
I'll just say that, after a quick look, your circuit is operating quite well. I'm sure that one of our knowledgable members will be able to give you some guidance of the various parameters appear in the statistics.
is this graph normal for my line snr per tone?
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That looks somewhat odd. It's the first time I have seen a SNR plot going to -15 dB.
I'm not sure what is happening. Perhaps other members may have an idea? :-\
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That looks somewhat odd. It's the first time I have seen a SNR plot going to -15 dB.
I'm not sure what is happening. Perhaps other members may have an idea? :-\
and that's only for downstream and that's why DS attainable rate keeps jumping up and down
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ok i attaching more graphs please if you find something odd please tell me
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here more
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more
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That looks somewhat odd. It's the first time I have seen a SNR plot going to -15 dB.
I'm not sure what is happening. Perhaps other members may have an idea? :-\
i have turned off bitswap and now snrpertone looks normal? i think that was something to do with bitswap?
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all these spikes in QLN are because of cross talk?
and hlog shows my line quality is good?
@burakkucat
@kitz
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Spikes like that are much more likely to be due to radio stations transmitted on those frequencies, or something else that transmits or otherwise generates interference on a narrow band around the frequencies of those spikes. Crosstalk does not tend to strongly affect certain isolated frequencies, crosstalk tends to be spread over the whole frequency range.
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What ejs said. Crosstalk would be across a broad range of DSL frequencies. By design, radio stations and radio-emitting devices use sharply defined narrow frequencies, firstly in order to get as much power as is appropriate into a particular frequency, and secondly so as not to be too greedy with the amount of frequency space (ie width in frequency terms) that they occupy, and so leave some room for other users. The frequency width or ‘bandwidth’ that a transmitter uses is proportional to the speed of transmission, disregarding mathematical tricks aimed at getting more speed, although these have their ultimate limits. So a faster transmission from a transmitting station, all other things being equal, means a wider frequency spike.
I have seen spikes myself which are, I suspect, from searching various websites giving frequency usage lists, to do with kit other than radio stations. Examples of such guesswork: One spike I have seen here might be from equipment at the airport in Tiree - highly speculative, but it is not incredibly far away, around 60 miles. Others could be to do with shipping and meteorological data. I once saw a spike which just possibly might have been associated with fish-finder equipment. But unless it’s one of the well documented radio stations this can be a dubious game.
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Cross ref with duplicate post
why 2100 to 2800 is empty?
and all these little spikes are because of cross talk?
2100 to 2800 is upstream and possibly not in use?
Those spikes are not typical of crosstalk which usually is more of a shallow bowl effect. Spikes are usually RFI or EMI type noise.
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Considering from what I have seen so far in that the graphs can be so variable, then there is a good chance that your connection is suffering from REIN. :/
i have turned off bitswap and now snrpertone looks normal? i think that was something to do with bitswap?
It's not a good idea to turn off bitswap - especially if your line is experiencing noise.
Bitswap allows the modem to reallocate and reuse spare SNR in other tones during periods of noise burst.
It may also be a good idea to let that port rest for a while.. That blip like swing between 28- 32dB on your downstream SNRM band can occur if there has been some sort of power outage/remote disconnect/brown out.
We usually recommend that you do a full power down of your modem and leave it for a short while before reconnecting.
I suspect that there is still some sort of EMI/RFI causing problems.... but I am also a bit concerned at what effect turning off bitswap could also be having on the line & graphing. It could possibly be why you don't now have anything showing in the U2 band.
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The user has something like a 30dB SNRM because their speed cap is so low - I didn't think they had any problem that needed fixing, so there's nothing they need to do.
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Wasn't bothered that it was at 30dB... It's that jitter between 28-32 dBm which isn't normal.
As we dont know how long that has been going on for, I felt it may be wise to completely power cycle the modem and leave it off for a while to 'rest the port' because those oscillationscan happen on some lines after a remote disconnect or power cut
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Wasn't bothered that it was at 30dB... It's that jitter between 28-32 dBm which isn't normal.
As we dont know how long that has been going on for, I felt it may be wise to completely power cycle the modem and leave it off for a while to 'rest the port' because those oscillationscan happen on some lines after a remote disconnect or power cut
28-32dBm jitter on SNR or QLN graph? And for how long i need to keep my modem off for port to reset?
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Considering from what I have seen so far in that the graphs can be so variable, then there is a good chance that your connection is suffering from REIN. :/
It's not a good idea to turn off bitswap - especially if your line is experiencing noise.
Bitswap allows the modem to reallocate and reuse spare SNR in other tones during periods of noise burst.
It may also be a good idea to let that port rest for a while.. That blip like swing between 28- 32dB on your downstream SNRM band can occur if there has been some sort of power outage/remote disconnect/brown out.
We usually recommend that you do a full power down of your modem and leave it for a short while before reconnecting.
I suspect that there is still some sort of EMI/RFI causing problems.... but I am also a bit concerned at what effect turning off bitswap could also be having on the line & graphing. It could possibly be why you don't now have anything showing in the U2 band.
i turned off bitswap because i was facing pkt loss all the time now it is every now and then
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Neil, I don’t know the details of your modem, but in general I would say that turning off bitswap is a terrible idea and would warn against it. You might have strong evidence to the contrary of course. I think one case where bitswap might just possibly become a problem is in a modem which doesn’t feature ‘monitored tones (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,19326.0.html)’ capability. I think my own DLink DSL-320B-Z1 modems which I used last year may fall into that category, and my ISP, Andrews and Arnold, used to ship the DLink modems with bitswap off (the default), which I wrongly or rightly used to moan about.
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Neil, I don’t know the details of your modem, but in general I would say that turning off bitswap is a terrible idea and would warn against it. You might have strong evidence to the contrary of course. I think one case where bitswap might just possibly become a problem is in a modem which doesn’t feature ‘monitored tones (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,19326.0.html)’ capability. I think my own DLink DSL-320B-Z1 modems which I used last year may fall into that category, and my ISP, Andrews and Arnold, used to ship the DLink modems with bitswap off (the default), which I wrongly or rightly used to moan about.
but i was facing pktloss issues in games i will try one more time with bitswap ON
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Neil, your linking of bitswap with other issues doesn’t make any sense. :-) Bitswap is a standard feature of DSL and everyone uses it all the time as it improves performance and reliability. (Cheapo modems that don’t have ‘monitored tones’ capability present more of a dilemma potentially.)
If you are getting packet loss then there are a number of reasons: it could be due to overloading the link by sending at a rate that is too high; it could be due to packet corruption because the sync rate is too high or the SNRM is too low; or it could be congestion in the network or a rubbish ISP; finally it could be a natural and essential feature of the way that routers behave and which is used by TCP. When there is congestion in the network or when a sender is just sending too fast fir a bottleneck somewhere the router at the bottleneck will start to drop packets to signal the congestion and tell the TCP sender to slow down. If the overload is extreme there may be nowhere to store a large number of incoming packets or it may be undesirable to build up a large queue of traffic which forms a backlog that might never get cleared and then there is no choice but to drop sockets. These forms of packet loss don’t indicate anything other than natural behaviour. You have to understand what is happening and why and We don’t fiddle with modems to try and fix it assuming the modem is in some way at fault.
If you are getting packet loss it means getting a clued up ISP to investigate. If your ISP doesn’t understand then need to swap out the ISP for one with clue. :-)
Hope this helps, even if only a little. Ask if anything unclear.
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Neil, your linking of bitswap with other issues doesn’t make any sense. :-) Bitswap is a standard feature of DSL and everyone uses it all the time as it improves performance and reliability. (Cheapo modems that don’t have ‘monitored tones’ capability present more of a dilemma potentially.)
If you are getting packet loss then there are a number of reasons: it could be due to overloading the link by sending at a rate that is too high; it could be due to packet corruption because the sync rate is too high or the SNRM is too low; or it could be congestion in the network or a rubbish ISP; finally it could be a natural and essential feature of the way that routers behave and which is used by TCP. When there is congestion in the network or when a sender is just sending too fast fir a bottleneck somewhere the router at the bottleneck will start to drop packets to signal the congestion and tell the TCP sender to slow down. If the overload is extreme there may be nowhere to store a large number of incoming packets or it may be undesirable to build up a large queue of traffic which forms a backlog that might never get cleared and then there is no choice but to drop sockets. These forms of packet loss don’t indicate anything other than natural behaviour. You have to understand what is happening and why and We don’t fiddle with modems to try and fix it assuming the modem is in some way at fault.
If you are getting packet loss it means getting a clued up ISP to investigate. If your ISP doesn’t understand then need to swap out the ISP for one with clue. :-)
Hope this helps, even if only a little. Ask if anything unclear.
i have turned on the bitswap let see i get pkt drops or not
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My fault for not having read the earlier posts - my apologies to all.
Neil, Kitz has said that in her opinion you are suffering from interference, so do not fiddle with bitswap as (a) it’s not relevant and (b) turning off bitswap will adversely affect performance- you, like everyone else, need bitswap. We all need this basic DSL feature - it’s included for a good reason.
Kitz said that the graphs are changing from one point in time to another. This variation is indeed as she says a defining characteristic of rf interference or some kinds of crosstalk - especially if other electrical equipment or other users’ devices are being switched in and off for some periods of time.
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My fault for not having read the earlier posts - my apologies to all.
Neil, Kitz has said that in her opinion you are suffering from interference, so do not fiddle with bitswap as (a) it’s not relevant and (b) turning off bitswap will adversely affect performance- you, like everyone else, need bitswap. We all need this basic DSL feature - it’s included for a good reason.
Kitz said that the graphs are changing from one point in time to another. This variation is indeed as she says a defining characteristic of rf interference or some kinds of crosstalk - especially if other electrical equipment or other users’ devices are being switched in and off for some periods of time.
ok i have turned back on the bitswap and how i can stop this interference and cross talk?
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There isn't anything you can do about crosstalk as it occurs to some extent or other on most lines. However that said, it doesn't look like crosstalk.
Those spikes are not typical of crosstalk which usually is more of a shallow bowl effect. Spikes are usually RFI or EMI type noise.
Spikes like that are much more likely to be due to radio stations transmitted on those frequencies, or something else that transmits or otherwise generates interference on a narrow band around the frequencies of those spikes. Crosstalk does not tend to strongly affect certain isolated frequencies, crosstalk tends to be spread over the whole frequency range.
Considering from what I have seen so far in that the graphs can be so variable, then there is a good chance that your connection is suffering from REIN. :/
It's not a good idea to turn off bitswap - especially if your line is experiencing noise.
Bitswap allows the modem to reallocate and reuse spare SNR in other tones during periods of noise burst.
The SNRM graph you provided was constantly jittering between 28 and 32 dB indicating the presence of some sort of RFI or EMI background type noise.
You hlog graph was good indicating no problems with the physical line itself.
The QLN graph showed several spikes at certain frequencies - based on the affected frequencies I would guess it if more likely to be EMI (Electro Magnetic Interference) as opposed to RFI (Radio Frequency Interference).
The above factors led me to believe you are suffering from some sort of REIN type noise. Unfortunately REIN is difficult to track down as it can come from various sources such as faulty electrical equipment. Common culprits tend to be TV/Microwave/Stereos/Treadmills/Faulty street lights/ Central Heating pumps.
I suggest you have a read of this page.
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise (REIN) (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm).
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I think there may well be some noise present, as there will be for every line, but it is not the problem. There were zero ES in the first two sets of stats, and only 2 ES in the third set of stats with interleaving off. I don't know how much time those stats covered, so we really need to see some stats and know how much time they cover. But I'm guessing that the number of Errored Seconds per day will be tiny.
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Following on from what Kitz said, if you are lucky, sometimes timing can be a clue ; if interference changes at certain times of day then that helps with the guesswork as to what the source might be. Central heating and street lights go on and off and do so at certain fixed times, although central heating might instead go / off according to a thermostat as well as being controlled by a timer of course, and a user might press a button to control it, eg "+1 hour". I have a possible weird source of interference which, if the understanding is correct, goes on and off in a pretty regular pattern every day, but I haven’t been able to make sense of the meaning behind the times, it only affects one of my four dsl lines, and only the upstream, while two other lines are completely unaffected and one is much less affected but not with the same timing pattern; rather with no regular pattern at all.
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Following on from what Kitz said, if you are lucky, sometimes timing can be a clue ; if interference changes at certain times of day then that helps with the guesswork as to what the source might be. Central heating and street lights go on and off and do so at certain fixed times, although central heating might instead go / off according to a thermostat as well as being controlled by a timer of course, and a user might press a button to control it, eg "+1 hour". I have a possible weird source of interference which, if the understanding is correct, goes on and off in a pretty regular pattern every day, but I haven’t been able to make sense of the meaning behind the times, it only affects one of my four dsl lines, and only the upstream, while two other lines are completely unaffected and one is much less affected but not with the same timing pattern; rather with no regular pattern at all.
we dont have central heating systems here
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Need to include neighbours’ whose central heating is are near the dsl cable, as opposed to those near your house only.
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Need to include neighbours’ whose central heating is are near the dsl cable, as opposed to those near your house only.
Pakistan recorded one of the highest temperatures in the world – 53.5 °C (128.3 °F) – on 26 May 2010
I don't think they need central heating there...
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I don't think they need central heating there...
No, but they might have air-conditioning on a time switch.
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I don't think they need central heating there...
yes it is quite hot in summer here now in November temp right now according to weather app is 19C
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No, but they might have air-conditioning on a time switch.
mostly split AC for a room no central cooling for whole house
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i was trying to upload a file and my modem got rebooted in the middle of upload is there something with my modem do i need to replace it?>