Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: Weaver on August 28, 2019, 03:15:32 AM

Title: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: Weaver on August 28, 2019, 03:15:32 AM
Iím not sure who provides this Ďenhanced careí (there was an earlier thread in which kitz many it was explained this thing) which is resold by my ISP A&A. I have gone mad and added enhanced care on all four lines * £12 (VAT??).

I canít remember but A&A sales said I think it was two working days to add the service. Somehow adding the enhanced service messed everything up for AA support, so they told me, because they couldnít access some of the BT tools that they usually use - I only heard scraps of this and nth nth hand too, so I donít understand any of it. Everything seemed to go wrong with the change to Ďenhancedí in that nearly a week later there were all sorts if strange messages visible in clueless.

My question : What does <whoever> actually have to do to make this enhanced thing happen? I assume they just make a note in some database somewhere relating to my line, saying come out quickly to this guy.

I canít understand how it could take more than a few milliseconds, well however long it takes to send a request to some database server. I certainly canít understand how it could really take two days and I assumed that that is just some mindless made-up number that that they just say to cover themselves.



A later email from AA suggested that something went wrong in the cogs and gears as a result of me making this request from BT or Openreach. I started the process on the 2019-08-16, I think.

Here are some recent records from clueless.aa.net.uk, Iím not sure what went wrong, and Iím nit even sure if I even have Ďenhancedí thingummy yet.

I see hints that things failed and then after that who knows.

Clueless:: Line 1:
Quote
2019-08-27 11:01:10   2019-08-28 11:01:10   ToDo be0053 check enhanced care is added to all lines   aa@aa
2019-08-28 01:46:05      Sent KCI tweet Weaver 2019-08-28 01:46:00 DSL line up   KCI
2019-08-28 01:46:02      Sent KCI tweet Weaver 2019-08-28 01:46:01 Line down (UserRequest)   KCI
2019-08-27 11:24:17   2019-08-28 00:59:59   Track order 4-808926405674 Modify:Issued Your order has been acknowledged and BT is aiming for provisioning it as soon as possible.   bt
2019-08-27 13:29:21      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test cbs00556dat03:176256433: Pass Line Test OK. Dial tone OK ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:OK, FaultReportAdvised:N, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:Stable, NetworkStability:Stable, StabilityStatement:Stable - no adverse line test history. CP may request an Engineer visit to investigate, test and demonstrate with the EU. Routine test & fault data available at Customer Diagnostic Tool on INFORMe under MIS>Artisan>CDT. If no fault is found clear RWT and apply Time Related Charges.   aa@aa
2019-08-27 13:29:12      Test line called (L)   Weaver@aa
2019-08-27 13:29:10      Test line called (L)   Weaver@aa
2019-08-27 11:17:25   2019-08-27 11:24:17   Track order 4-808926405674 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 10:59:56      Update AutoTestUntil=0000-00-00 00:00:00->0   aa@aa
23 Aug 10:57:34   2019-08-27 10:59:51   Track order 4-808145148797 Modify:Cancelled Unwilling to supply reason   aa@aa
2019-08-27 10:42:17   2019-08-27 10:43:08   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful DS

Clueless:: Line 2:
Quote
2019-08-27 17:08:02   2019-08-28 00:59:59   Track order 4-808926432757 Modify:Cancelled Unwilling to supply reason   bt
2019-08-27 11:08:18   2019-08-27 17:08:02   Track order 4-808926432757 Modify:Issued Your order has been acknowledged and BT is aiming for provisioning it as soon as possible.   bt
2019-08-27 11:01:45   2019-08-27 11:08:18   Track order 4-808926432757 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 11:00:11      Update AutoTestUntil=0000-00-00 00:00:00->0   aa@aa
21 Aug 12:32:35   2019-08-27 11:00:06   Track order 4-808145236836 Modify:Cancelled Unwilling to supply reason   aa@aa
2019-08-27 10:47:33   2019-08-27 10:48:25   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful DS01:Line Test OK   aa@aa
2019-08-27 10:48:18      Test line called (L)   Weaver@aa
2019-08-27 10:48:16      Test line called (L)   Weaver@aa
2019-08-27 10:46:45   2019-08-27 10:46:51   BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=2404kb/s FTR=2278kb/s MSR=2848kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE
Up Sync=509kb/s LoopLoss=41.9dB SNR=4.5dB ErrSec=2 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2385kb/s LoopLoss=65.5dB SNR=5.6dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0   aa@aa
2019-08-27 10:45:07      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test hws00556dat02:177586033: Pass Line Test OK. Dial tone OK ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:OK, FaultReportAdvised:N, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:Stable, NetworkStability:Stable, St

Clueless:: Line 3 :
Quote
2019-08-27 11:24:18   2019-08-28 00:59:59   Track order 4-808926413770 Modify:Issued Your order has been acknowledged and BT is aiming for provisioning it as soon as possible.   bt
2019-08-27 11:17:10   2019-08-27  11:24:18   Track order 4-808926413770 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 11:06:11   2019-08-27 11:06:57   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful DS01:Line Test OK   aa@aa
2019-08-27 11:04:49   2019-08-27 11:05:41   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful DS01:Line Test OK   aa@aa
2019-08-27 11:04:06

Clueless::Line 4::
Quote
2019-08-27 11:16:35   2019-08-27 11:16:35   Track order 4-808926275050 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 11:11:35   2019-08-27 11:16:35   Track order 4-808926275050 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 11:08:10   2019-08-27 11:11:35   Track order 4-808926275050 Modify:Issued Your order has been acknowledged and BT is aiming for provisioning it as soon as possible.   bt
2019-08-27 11:09:21   2019-08-27 11:10:11   BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful DS01:Line Test OK   aa@aa
2019-08-27 11:08:46   2019-08-27 11:08:53   BT Test xDSL Status Check:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass OK. Circuit In Sync
BRAS=2147kb/s FTR=2278kb/s MSR=2848kb/s ServOpt=1 I/L=I
A SERVICE OPTION CHANGE ORDER IS IN PROGRESS ON THIS LINE
Up Sync=449kb/s LoopLoss=41.7dB SNR=5.9dB ErrSec=2 HECErr=0 Cells=0
Down Sync=2464kb/s LoopLoss=65.5dB SNR=6.1dB ErrSec=0 HECErr=N/A Cells=0   aa@aa
2019-08-27 11:08:29      WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test hws00556dat02:177594098: Pass Line Test OK. Dial tone OK ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:OK, FaultReportAdvised:N, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:Stable, NetworkStability:Stable, StabilityStatement:Stable - no adverse line test history. CP may request an Engineer visit to investigate, test and demonstrate with the EU. Routine test & fault data available at Customer Diagnostic Tool on INFORMe under MIS>Artisan>CDT. If no fault is found clear RWT and apply Time Related Charges.   aa@aa
2019-08-27 11:06:35   2019-08-27 11:08:10   Track order 4-808926275050 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 11:01:41   2019-08-27 11:06:35   Track order 4-808926275050 Modify:Pending On Fulfilment [ADSL2+ Interleave Premium Enhanced Care] -   bt
2019-08-27 11:00:24      Update AutoTestUntil=0000-00-00 00:00:00->0   aa@aa
2019-08-26 03:02:47      Sent KCI tweet Weaver 2019-08-26 03:02:44 DSL line up (down 81 seconds)   KCI
2019-08-26 03:02:47      Cancelled KCI sms 2019-08-26 03:02:44 DSL line up (down 81 seconds) [cancelled deferred KCI]   KCI
2019-08-26 03:02:46      Tx rate (adjusted) 2140614 to 2166192 (rx 449000)   -Auto-
2019-08-26 03:01:33      Sent KCI tweet Weaver 2019-08-26 03:01:23 Line down (LostCarrier)   KCI
2019-08-26 03:01:33      Deferred KCI sms 2019-08-26 03:01:23 Line down (LostCarrier)   KCI
2019-08-26 02:58:34   2019-08-26 02:59:06   Test SNR reset: RateBandDS=160-24384 InterleaveLevelDS=On TargetMarginDS=6dB RateBandUS=32-Uncapped InterleaveLevelUS=On TargetMarginUS=6dB:SNR Recalculation initiated which will enable the line to reach optimum speed, stabilization retrains can be expected over the next couple of days.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: dorzb on August 28, 2019, 11:29:15 AM
Don't know anything about A&A's enhanced care but it seems that Zen also provides this service at the same price so it might be the same thing?

Quote
At Zen Internet we continually strive to offer
the best value for money in broadband
services and are consistently commended for
our reliability, customer services and technical
support.
Enhanced Care is the latest service option
available with our award-winning range of
broadband (ADSL) solutions. For just £12.00 per
month (ex. VAT), customers will be able to take
advantage of an advanced service level guarantee
covering any faults found with their broadband
(ADSL) service.

Features:
ē One working hour fault response time*
ē Twenty working hour fault resolution time*
ē One month minimum contract
ē Fast provisioning

* Working hours: 8am-8pm Monday-Friday excl Bank Holidays
We recognise that certain users may require a
guaranteed level of service for business-critical
operations over their broadband connection.
Enhanced Care recognises this by providing
guaranteed fault response and resolution times,
assuring that their broadband connection
continues to run smoothly.
Advanced service level guarantee for
business critical applications
We have won numerous awards commending the
high levels of service and support provided to our
customers. Enhanced Care does not mark any
deterioration in these service standards, it simply
recognizes that many organizations require the
peace of mind provided by an advanced service
level with guaranteed fault resolution times.
Enhanced Care is supplied for a minimum term of
one month, which is in line with all our broadband
(ADSL) services. With this, we commit to a one
working hour* response time in respect of all
technical support broadband (ADSL) fault
enquiries (reported by calling 01706 902000 or
emailing enhancedcare@zen.co.uk) and a twenty
working hour* resolution time for all broadband
faults found to have origination with the Zen
supplied DSL circuit or within the Zen network.
This service level guarantee is backed by BT
Wholesale who commits to supply BT Engineers
to repair any identified faults at your premises.
To find out more, please visit
http://www.zen.co.uk/Broadband/ML_Business/ze
n-enhanced-care.aspx
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: dorzb on August 28, 2019, 02:56:15 PM
Iím not sure who provides this Ďenhanced careí (there was an earlier thread in which kitz many it was explained this thing) which is resold by my ISP A&A. I have gone mad and added enhanced care on all four lines * £12 (VAT??).

I canít remember but A&A sales said I think it was two working days to add the service. Somehow adding the enhanced service messed everything up for AA support, so they told me, because they couldnít access some of the BT tools that they usually use - I only heard scraps of this and nth nth hand too, so I donít understand any of it. Everything seemed to go wrong with the change to Ďenhancedí in that nearly a week later there were all sorts if strange messages visible in clueless.

My question : What does <whoever> actually have to do to make this enhanced thing happen? I assume they just make a note in some database somewhere relating to my line, saying come out quickly to this guy.

I canít understand how it could take more than a few milliseconds, well however long it takes to send a request to some database server. I certainly canít understand how it could really take two days and I assumed that that is just some mindless made-up number that that they just say to cover themselves.



A later email from AA suggested that something went wrong in the cogs and gears as a result of me making this request from BT or Openreach. I started the process on the 2019-08-16, I think.

Here are some recent records from clueless.aa.net.uk, Iím not sure what went wrong, and Iím nit even sure if I even have Ďenhancedí thingummy yet.

I see hints that things failed and then after that who knows.

Clueless:: Line 1:
Clueless:: Line 2:
Clueless:: Line 3 :
Clueless::Line 4::

BTW, I noticed you have 4 ADSL lines... Why don't you just have a few fibre connections instead?
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: licquorice on August 28, 2019, 03:03:55 PM
Its a sore point, I'm sure Weaver will explain all  ;)
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: j0hn on August 28, 2019, 03:33:24 PM
BTW, I noticed you have 4 ADSL lines... Why don't you just have a few fibre connections instead?

Sometimes the obvious answer is too obvious.
There is no fibre.

He lives in a remote part of a Scottish island with no FTTC/FTTP available to his property.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: jelv on August 28, 2019, 05:13:46 PM
BTW, I noticed you have 4 ADSL lines... Why don't you just have a few fibre connections instead?

What would you do when the BT availability checker says this?
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on August 28, 2019, 06:33:39 PM
Just wondering, what does the enhanced care actually provide?   Iím thinking it canít always result in a rapid repair because some repairs take a long elapsed time, no matter how much priority it is given.     For example, obscure parts might need to be ordered, or men & machinery brought on site, or engineers might need to wait for a storm to pass before safely climbing poles, etc. :-\
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: ejs on August 28, 2019, 07:45:02 PM
I'm guessing that either it's that you can't add it if you've currently got a fault or even if you've recently had a fault. Otherwise it would seem to be a bit silly, you could just start paying it whenever you get a fault and then stop paying it at the end of the month.

Or it's that BT don't have to offer it on 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines. I don't think there's any obligation on BT to provide a second or any subsequent lines, so I suppose they don't have to fix them either.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: Weaver on August 29, 2019, 02:58:43 AM
@dorzb I too would think that the Zen and AA things are referring to the same BT thing.

I have four lines IP-bonded together for quadruple speed (pretty close.) I perhaps should have had some fibre laid but itís going to be expensive as BT is 4.55 mi away. Iím sure that AA would be delighted to quote me for ethernet though. I spent my money on other things.

But does anyone know what has to be done on BTís side?
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: dorzb on August 29, 2019, 09:29:35 AM
Sometimes the obvious answer is too obvious.
There is no fibre.

He lives in a remote part of a Scottish island with no FTTC/FTTP available to his property.

Didn't know that :-X
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: Weaver on August 30, 2019, 12:08:10 AM
>Or it's that BT don't have to offer it on 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines. I don't think there's any obligation on BT to provide a second or any subsequent lines, so I suppose they don't have to fix them either.

Iím not with you, Ejs. BT chose to offer 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines because BT Wholesale asked them to, and BTW sold broadband service to AA who provide that service to me. This description is from explanations posted by RevK. So BT need to repair their own kit - the copper lines, and other kit upstream - so that BTW can keep up their obligation to provide a broadband service to AA. It will be BTW making OR do the repair.

Is that right?

Itís kust lazy people like me using English in a sloppy way, saying things like Ďrepair my lineí whereas it should be Ďrepair their lineí.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: kitz on August 30, 2019, 02:11:31 PM
No idea what went wrong, but ejs's suggestion that you can't add it if recently had a fault would be most obvious.

It's provided by Openreach as an add-on so it should now be the same service and cost offered by all ISPs, although I think only BTr offer L2 to their EU's FoC which is a shame as Weaver may have qualified.

One thing to note is that it applies to the phone line and not necessarily any dsl faults.
Enhanced Care is Level 3 in the attached Doc

L1 = Standard
L2 = Priority/chronic illness/disabled/housebound etc
L3 = Enhanced Care
L4 = Critical Care

 Openreach linky (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/serviceproducts/serviceharmonisation/serviceharmonisation/downloads/SML_fact_sheet_web_vers_phme_61163_2011_09.pdf)
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: ejs on August 30, 2019, 06:22:22 PM
>Or it's that BT don't have to offer it on 2nd, 3rd or 4th lines. I don't think there's any obligation on BT to provide a second or any subsequent lines, so I suppose they don't have to fix them either.

Iím not with you, Ejs. BT chose to offer 2nd, 3rd, 4th lines because BT Wholesale asked them to, and BTW sold broadband service to AA who provide that service to me. This description is from explanations posted by RevK. So BT need to repair their own kit - the copper lines, and other kit upstream - so that BTW can keep up their obligation to provide a broadband service to AA. It will be BTW making OR do the repair.

I was thinking that whichever of BTw or Openreach could decide that they won't fix it, leaving the end user with the option to continue using it as is, or to cancel the service. I think the contracts include a clause so that whichever part of BT can declare that they can no longer provide the broadband service, so whichever part of BT could just decide to terminate the broadband service on 30 days' notice. Therefore, they do not have to fix it, because they could decide to terminate the service instead.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: Weaver on August 31, 2019, 03:05:44 AM
Does that mean they wonít fix broadband-only faults in the time frame then? Because if so, then AA would be misleading in their advertising, because they would be selling something that would you think fix broadband because itís a without-POTS-voice copper service that AA is selling, always without analog voice. It would improve things sometimes and have some value though, because you might have a telephone fault - or whatever and that extreme fault is obviously going to prevent dsl from working, so getting that fixed sooner is of some value.

And as for Ďhaving had a recent faultí I had a fault at the time of ordering enhanced care and this was exactly what I was trying to do. No one told me not to go ahead or any reason why I should not know this. If thatís right then itís a real mess because thereís no explanation to customers, and customers may be mislead either by BT indirectly or the ISP.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: ejs on August 31, 2019, 02:57:26 PM
I don't know what A&A are promising. I think any kind of low speed threshold tends to be the limit for which you can report it as a fault, and is not some sort of guarantee that they will do whatever it takes no matter what the cost to get your speed above that threshold. If you've been imagining that you've got X amount of guaranteed bandwidth from a few ADSL lines, then I'm sorry but I think you've been living in a fantasy, no matter who your ISP is.

There do appear to be some different BTWholesale Maintenance Class levels available to purchase at additional costs as listed in the WBC Price List, of course I have no idea if one of those is what A&A buys for what they sell as their enhanced care.
Title: Re: Enhanced care - priority repair service from either Openreach or BT
Post by: Weaver on August 31, 2019, 03:44:41 PM
AA donít promise anything. They just repeat what BT day about time-to-fix. Indeed they are not pushing the service at all. I didnít say they were recommending it for any reason.

And Iím not living in a fantasy world. I donít know what Iíve done to offend you.