Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Mobile broadband => Topic started by: Weaver on August 25, 2019, 03:27:09 AM
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I have a Huawei 3G USB NIC supplied by AA last autumn. I think it’s a Huawei E156G. This is up and running but doesn’t work properly.
I also now have recently received a 4G USB NIC from AA, but I suspect this won’t do the right thing for me as I am told it behaves like a SOHO NATing router not like a modem as it should be, and so won’t pass through packets addressed to/from my existing IPv4 address block, so it is completely unsuitable for me as its interference with existing IP addressing would blow away any TCP connections that are in progress at the time of failover switching to the USB NIC because in the case of upstream transfers, IP source addresses would have been suddenly changed to something unknown, and in the case of downstream TCP transfers the TCP ACKs would similarly suddenly start coming from an unknown alien address, so blowing those away. And these are perhaps just some of the problems caused by sudden forced and unnecessary address reassignment.
Coming back to the 3G dongle, it used to be on the end of a 5m long USB cable (I think an ‘active’ cable) so that the USB NIC could be positioned right in the window. In that setup, it worked reliably for months and then ‘disappeared’. I was inclined to blame the active cable and AA initially blamed the Firebrick suggesting a bad Firebrick PSU. Now AA have managed to reproduce the fault condition, which they described as a ‘lockout’ and I think they are saying that it is a Firebrick bug and they can eventually fix it given time. Anyway, I think the cable is let off the hook. I have a shorter 3m cable which is hopefully not active which I can use for another test, but that may not reach the window properly. Right now the 3G link is not working at all, up-down-up-down mostly down, with the USB NIC plugged directly into the Firebrick. I am blaming this in poor signal strength in this position in the room. Surprising because there is a good view from the large bay window directly towards the base station which is not far away and is in clear line if sight. So given that signal strength is suspect, I am aiming to improve reception.
I have an external antenna on order (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4G-LTE-Antenna-25dBi-CRC9-Plug-Signal-Amplifier-for-Huawei-E3272-ZTE-usb-modem/201444324739) for the USB NIC, and I’m hoping that I have the right connector, as I read that there are several different physical interface standards. I’m hoping it’s the right thing but I have no idea what I am doing? Does that unit look any good?
The speed of the AA / Three 3G link with that Huawei E516G USB 3G NIC was pretty rubbish: about 2 Mbps downstream iirc and - I forget - much less than 1 Mbps upstream. It is only for backup but that might get really annoying during a long outage. I wonder how much 3G speed is there to be gained typically, with excellent signal strength as opposed to middling to feeble-ish signal ? What do you typically expect to get from 3G in upstream and downstream ?
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I have an external antenna on order for the USB NIC, and I’m hoping that I have the right connector, as I read that there are several different physical interface standards. I’m hoping it’s the right thing but I have no idea what I am doing? Does that unit look any good?
The link you've shared requires me to login. This (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/4G-LTE-Antenna-25dBi-CRC9-Plug-Signal-Amplifier-for-Huawei-E3272-ZTE-usb-modem/201444324739) is the item you are on about, based on the item ID.
I'd say cancel that order as soon as possible since there is no frequency range specified that is used by any UK provider for 3G technologies. If you are using Three's network, it would be 2100 MHz. It just seems to me that this is an LTE antenna, as advertised.
For the connector, CRC9 is apparently the right connector for your device in specific I have read. What to advise for an antenna? I wouldn't know for something with CRC9. Perhaps someone else here will have a recommendation.
The speed of the AA / Three 3G link with that Huawei E516G USB 3G NIC was pretty rubbish: about 2 Mbps downstream iirc and - I forget - much less than 1 Mbps upstream. It is only for backup but that might get really annoying during a long outage. I wonder how much 3G speed is there to be gained typically, with excellent signal strength as opposed to middling to feeble-ish signal ? What do you typically expect to get from 3G in upstream and downstream ?
Given that the E516G downstream is rated for only 3.6 Mbps (which is probably Cat. 5 or 6), you would be fairly limited for speeds. I would imagine 2-3 Mbps would be where you would expect it to be under even the better of circumstances. Not sure about upstream, but I would imagine it to be rated for 384 kbit/s (probably about 0.3 Mbps with overheads). Nothing stellar here.
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Is an LTE antenna always no good for Three’s 3G frequency range(s)?
It’s too late as it is in transit. I stupidly should have posted my question before I placed the order. It’s not a disaster though because I’m trying to get a good 4G modem anyway. And so it might or might not be useful.
I will place my dongle right in the middle of the window, facing the basestation, which is fairly close. Any tips about best directional orientation of the antenna?
Unfortunately I don’t have software to extract signal strength from it. I suppose such software could be written for my Raspberry Pi though. But I wouldn’t have a clue how to speak usb to it.
4G: My problem with the Huawei 4G NIC that I’ve got from AA is that AA warn me (too late) that it is actually a NATing router - like a domestic Nat router - not a modem and does not just pass packets straight through with source IP addresses intact. I don’t know if it could be reconfigured to make it into a straight modem though. I will have to ask Janet to take a look at it to see the modem number,
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Is an LTE antenna always no good for Three’s 3G frequency range(s)?
As quoted from the specifications on the item page:
Frequency range : 791~821MHz / 832~862MHz/1710~1785MHz / 1805~1880MHz / 2500~2570MHz/ 2620~2690MHz
No good for 3G since it uses 2100 MHz. Should be okay for LTE since Three primarily uses B3 (1800 MHz) and B20 (800 MHz). Though I was under the impression that LTE coverage was virtually non-existent for you.
I will place my dongle right in the middle of the window, facing the basestation, which is fairly close. Any tips about best directional orientation of the antenna?
I could be wrong, but the presumption is that the modem will have an omni-directional antenna built in. There will likely be a bias to which position is better, but without specifications of the antenna it would be a case of trial and error. However, unlikely to make a significant difference.
Unfortunately I don’t have software to extract signal strength from it. I suppose such software could be written for my Raspberry Pi though. But I wouldn’t have a clue how to speak usb to it.
Me neither. :(
4G: My problem with the Huawei 4G NIC that I’ve got from AA is that AA warn me (too late) that it is actually a NATing router - like a domestic Nat router - not a modem and does not just pass packets straight through with source IP addresses intact. I don’t know if it could be reconfigured to make it into a straight modem though. I will have to ask Janet to take a look at it to see the modem number,
If you could find the model number, it might allow us to find information. :)
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The speed of the AA / Three 3G link with that Huawei E516G USB 3G NIC was pretty rubbish: about 2 Mbps downstream iirc and - I forget - much less than 1 Mbps upstream. It is only for backup but that might get really annoying during a long outage. I wonder how much 3G speed is there to be gained typically, with excellent signal strength as opposed to middling to feeble-ish signal ? What do you typically expect to get from 3G in upstream and downstream ?
I have a Huwaei E367 (no routing feature) on 3G as failover and usually get 4-5Mbps down and 1.5-2Mbps up.
When I searched I found this to be about the best speed I could get.
I did try getting a small CRC9 antenna but it seemed to make things worse.
I also now have recently received a 4G USB NIC from AA, but I suspect this won’t do the right thing for me as I am told it behaves like a SOHO NATing router not like a modem as it should
I too ran across this issue recently when I though I could get a better USB dongle capable of 4G (than the E367). There are 2 variants, the one you received (HiLink) and the serial port version which solely works as a modem ie no routing feature
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-Unlocked-E3372-153-Dongle-Black/dp/B079P2BQMM/ref=sr_1_11?keywords=huawei+usb+modem&qid=1566821653&s=gateway&sr=8-11
At the end of the day I have kept my E367 but were my backup speeds as low as yours I would have been tempted to try the E3372.
Please note that some newer USB 4G dongles are power hogs using well over an amp and require their own powered supply ie usb hub
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Recap - So is that dongle just rubbish then and not capable of more?
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Recap - So is that dongle just rubbish then and not capable of more?
Probably not. If you have a smartphone you can pop the sim into and test the speeds, it might give a better indication of what is possible without having to fork out for another "dongle".
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I have the same SIM in an iPad and it gives me 4G there but only 3G in this dongle, I believe, according to the Firebrick anyway - that reports the dongle as being 3G.
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Not sure about iOS but on Android you can choose to use 3G only.
If such an option exists in iOS it would be worth trying it to see what the Three 3G speeds are like on the iPad vs the dongle.
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I am not sure about iOS either, but would presume there would be a toggle to turn 4G off/on or a selection to choose 2G/3G/4G specifically. Should be under Mobile Data or something similar. Perhaps the options are iOS and device dependent.
What sort of speeds can you get on the iPad on 4G anyway?
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I’m not sure, I’ll have to retest in a window. I just tested my iPad lying here in bed and I only got 3G 3.6 / 0.3 Mbps. I need to move to a better position in the room, my wife gets 4G on her iPad just a short distance away. But because we have six foot thick stone walls, the line of sight to the window and out to the basestation to the northeast is crucial, from experience.
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I get medicore speeds unless the device is in or near the window. My smartphone gets about 3/0.3 Mbps on the floor in the middle of the room, 10/2.5 Mbps on my desk (approx. 1m from the window) while in the window sees 22/2.5 Mbps on HSPA+ (3G technology). Not a lot of testing, not LoS of the mast, and I don't have the thick wall problem as you do. Just thought I'd give it a quick go myself.
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Recap - So is that dongle just rubbish then and not capable of more?
Probably yes. A quick google suggests it supports only 3G, with a max speed of 3.6meg. For example https://www.mobilefun.co.uk/huawei-e156g-hsdpa-usb-modem-24366
Have you asked Andrews and Arnold about the 4G dongle, regarding the NAT issue? The mode you describe is the normal default for Huawei devices where the dongle acts as a NAT router, using by default 192.168.8.0/24 on the LAN side. You should be able to connect to its management web page on 192.168.8.1.
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No, I need to confirm with them that this model suffers from NAT. I don’t know whether they would be willing to configure it for me to be in straight-modem mode. I stupidly should have said that no-NAT was a requirement before I bought it from them. I said that I required that it be preconfigured but I didn’t say ‘preconfigured to NAT-free operation’ so I wasted my money.
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Weaver, this guy on Think Broadband (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/mobilebroadband/t/4625704-re-4g-broadband-what-are-my-options.html) is getting 15 to 40Mbps with an external antenna and modem on EE 4G at about five miles with no line of sight. You have line of sight and only 3.6 miles.
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Thinking this through a couple of options come to mind.
(1) Get a 4G router as opposed to a dongle, assuming your Firebrick has an available Ethernet interface. There are routers around that can be put into bridge mode, and in that mode they offer the WAN IP address via DHCP to the router. That way your Firebrick has direct control of the external IP.
(2) Stick with the dongle. NAT and everything, but use AA L2TP from the Firebrick to get a proper routable IP address, and IPv6. Then you can choose any 4G service based on price, service availability etc.
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I just tried speedtest2.aa.net.uk a few times with my iPad with 4G in the bedroom window upstairs in my bedroom, I got ~7.4 downstream / ~7.0 Mbps upstream on AA Three.
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Nice, imagine what you'd get with a decent external antenna.
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. . . imagine what you'd get with a decent external antenna.
Knowing the location of the "Weaving Shed", any external metalwork is liable to be a "magnet" for lightening strikes. :(
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Yes that could well be a problem.
There is a guy on TBB forums who's in Scotland who has an external antenna, although I don't know where in Scotland. He currently has a thread (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/mobilebroadband/f/4625853-lightning-precautions-on-rooftop-antenna.html) asking about lightening protection as he wants to mount it on a 2 to 3 meter pole.
Surely a suitable lightning strike system offering very low resistance to earth is the way to.
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Hi
I am not an electrician but I would have thought if you had a metal rod longer in length to that of arial and was grounded that lightening strikes should use that due to been highest point
Sorry if it is too simplistic
Many thanks
John
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There is a guy on TBB forums who's in Scotland who has an external antenna, although I don't know where in Scotland. He currently has a thread (https://forums.thinkbroadband.com/mobilebroadband/f/4625853-lightning-precautions-on-rooftop-antenna.html) asking about lightening protection as he wants to mount it on a 2 to 3 meter pole.
IIRC from other postings, South Ayrshire. I'm sure I saw Coylton mentioned once which is a few miles inland from Ayr.
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Thinking this through a couple of options come to mind.
(1) Get a 4G router as opposed to a dongle, assuming your Firebrick has an available Ethernet interface. There are routers around that can be put into bridge mode, and in that mode they offer the WAN IP address via DHCP to the router. That way your Firebrick has direct control of the external IP.
Yes, I would definitely echo what aesmith said - get a proper dedicated 4G router with its own built-in Ethernet ports and WiFi.
I'm currently using a Huawei B525 with good results via Three. The B525 has 4 Ethernet ports, a USB port, plus an RJ11 port so you can connect a standard phone either to use any minutes via the SIM card, or to use a VOIP service.
Amazon link here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-unlocked-networks-Genuine-Warranty/dp/B06ZZL966Q/ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Huawei-unlocked-networks-Genuine-Warranty/dp/B06ZZL966Q/)
(I've used Amazon for ease, but most of these items mentioned in my post can be found at different suppliers, e.g. Solwise, BroadbandBuyer, eBuyer, eBay, etc - just need to search around a bit).
The most advanced 4G router that I know of that is currently generally available in the UK is the more expensive Huawei B618 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlocked-Router-Genuine-Warranty-network/dp/B073VBYFL5 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unlocked-Router-Genuine-Warranty-network/dp/B073VBYFL5)), which is an LTE Category 11 router. Still 2x2 MIMO though. There are 4x4 MIMO routers available - BUT all the ones I have seen thus far only have 2 antenna ports (SMA or TS-9) for external antennae, so if you need to use an external antenna, it turns the router into a 2x2 MIMO one anyway!
Some versions of the B525 (including mine, the B525s-65a) have Bridge Mode, and with mine you can even select the LTE band (either "Auto", "2G Only", "3G Only", "4G Only", "4G / 3G Auto", "4G (800MHz) only", "4G (1800MHz) only", "4G (2600MHz) only", "4G (700MHz) only" - in the case of my router). However, all these features are completely firmware dependant, and it's almost impossible to tell what features you will get until you get the router. However, even without the LTE band selection or bridge mode, the B525 is a good 4G router (from my own experiences, so far...).
I'm currently with Three (but Three-based Smarty are currently doing Unlimited Data for £18.75 per month on a rolling monthly (no contract) basis - see: https://smarty.co.uk/plans/unlimited (https://smarty.co.uk/plans/unlimited)).
Actually, all 4 main mobile operators (Three, Vodafone, EE & O2) now do unlimited data (although there are usually FUPs [Fair Usage Policies] that apply, O2's being the lowest at 650Gb per month, with Three [incl. Smarty] & EE having a 1Tb per month "soft cap", and Vodafone don't officially have any, although mention of an unofficial 3Tb per month "soft cap" for Vodafone has been made).
I'm thinking of adding a Vodafone unlimited data SIM to my setup, then load-balancing that with the Three link (via something like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-R470T-Balance-Broadband-Business/dp/B004UC9V8Q (https://www.amazon.co.uk/TP-LINK-TL-R470T-Balance-Broadband-Business/dp/B004UC9V8Q)), then combining the output of said Load Balancer with my slow (sub 2Mbps) ADSL link via my Draytek Vigor 2860Vac router - either as Load Balancing, or more likely to use the ADSL as Failover backup link.
Some good external antennae are:
Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0001 (Omni-Directional): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poynting-4G-XPOL-A0001-Cross-Polarised-Antenna/dp/B00C1DGFPS/ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poynting-4G-XPOL-A0001-Cross-Polarised-Antenna/dp/B00C1DGFPS/)
Poynting 4G-XPOL-A0002 (Directional): https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poynting-4G-XPOL-A0002-Polarised-Directional-Outdoor/dp/B00C1DGGKC/ (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Poynting-4G-XPOL-A0002-Polarised-Directional-Outdoor/dp/B00C1DGGKC/)
Or you could use a "Yagi" style setup - but they are more directionally sensitive (I think, from what I've read) than the XPOL-A0002 (which, from testing a friends, almost acts as a hybrid directional & omni antenna!).
Now that all main mobile networks offer unlimited data (and the most expensive of these is £34 per month), 3G & 4G (using a dedicated router) does become a much better option to add into the mix for those of us still suffering with slow connections. As long as you have network coverage that is: use a PAYG test SIM with some credit on to test signals and run speed tests before choosing a network or committing to a contract. At least now that all 4 main operators offer unlimited(ish!) data, there are more options in terms of said coverage.
Hopefully this provides a bit of useful information to go on with.
In summary - yes, definitely look into getting a dedicated 4G router, possibly paired with an external (omni-directional or directional) antenna - it could massively boost your connection (and even save money, if you are bonding 4 ADSL lines - you could probably keep just the 1 or 2 "best" lines and combine with 4G via Load Balance [or FailOver to ADSL] if it works out).
Incidentally you can still use the A&A L2TP service via 4G.
Good Luck!
Kind regards,
Adam.
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Adam that’s just what I need. A fantastically generous post. Especially given that - due to illness - somehow I find it very difficult to locate products.
I would need to ask AA about the implications of using a non-dongle de ice for fallback. The usb dongle i/f may be special in that the Firebrick knows to switch over to the USB NIC when all the lines go down. I don’t know if there’s a way to get a different type of interface to be recognised by the Firebrick as a ‘failover solution’ - or whatever is the phrase I’m looking for. Without sorting that problem out, I could get downstream but not upstream to work.
I had been thinking about using the L2TP service with AA and a cheap SIM. It would not be cost effective for failover though, something that approximately never happens but I would have the recurring bills for L2TP and the mobile carrier. But if I were to start to go all-4G then that would make sense. What puts me off that is (i) droop - time-of-day related and no minimum performance guarantee as you’re depending on the popularity of the cell and how many hogs there might be; (ii) reliability - 4G disappears for a day or two sometimes and always fails when there is a local power outage, so it isn’t remotely reliable enough and would need DSL as backup.
About lightning and positioning: The ‘higher pole’ thing seems valid to me. However since it would cause a lightning strike if too prominent then there might still be damage to other systems nearby due to induction, no? gigantic magnetic and secondary electric fields around the place as the current flows down the pole plus the big problems of the dI/dt.
I wouldn’t mount an antenna high up, because it wouldn’t survive 130mph winds. I could get line of sight in a place where the house shields it from the prevailing wind, or given that the the hous is high up on a shelf above the road which is to the east and the basestation lies to the northeast across the valley, the bank below the house, the garden’s low stone wall and the house itself all shelter an antenna parked on that bank or in the garden. An antenna could be lower than the house and have a line of sight straight to the basestation. Indeed the satellite dish is at ground level, to the northeast of the house and is sheltered by the house itself.
I’ve never had a lightning strike on the house. The house has several 15m trees near to it and to the west of the house the land rises greatly as I am on the sloping side of Beinn nan Càrn, so I’m not the highest point. I think damage has been due to EPR/GPR or else induction in the phone lines. Neighbours slightly lower than me had a lightning injury inside housd though so it doesn’t do to be complacent.
Is it really important for an antenna to be outside? If I have it in the woman-cave former office bay window looking directly at the basestation, will that be enough?
I have a small antenna now; I keep asking Janet to help me plug it into the USB dongle - then I’ll know whether or not I’ve bought the right type of connector. :-(
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I have now plugged in the antenna into the USB NIC. There is a tiny rubbery black cover on the side that can be peeled back to reveal a hole that takes a gold-plated push-in ‘hollow pin’ or tube-like concentric connector? I think this might be what is termed the ‘CRC9’ type of connector but I’m not sure, I’d have to look it up. The antenna itself has a slender lead going to it. My wife has parked the dongle plus antenna in the left hand pane of the bay window, which is facing north-east directly towards the basestation.
It has a screw-on suction-cup ‘foot’. This suggests sticking the foot onto the glass, but then it would be pointing 180 degrees away from the line of sight. Which direction should it be facing ? It will of course be an omni from the symmetrical look of it, but it will have a polar diagram of some sort surely, with respect to a plane in which its line of symmetry lies (‘latitude’ angle dimension/degree of freedom). I would think it has nulls or at least minima at the north and south poles, to a greater or lesser extent. Unless that is they have made it truly 4pi-symmetrical by having several orthogonally aligned elements whose outputs are combined, which I would very much doubt somehow. I get the feeling that the foot should be stuck onto a horizontal flat surface maybe, but who knows.
It seems to be working, from the evidence of the clueless.aa.net.uk control server. Later on when Janet has a few mins I will do a real speed test now, by forcing the Firebrick to switch over to 3G. I could fiddle about and try to trigger this forced switchover remotely, but I’d rather not have to kludge to the XML config.
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The antenna is positioned at right-angles to the plane of the window, sucker cup attachment on the glass, so that means the main axis of the antenna is pointing directly away from the line of sight. Did a speed test; horrible results = 1.2 Mbps downstream / 0.2 Mbps upstream with https://speedtest2.aa.net.uk (https://speedtest2.aa.net.uk).
So a nightmare; either the antenna is horrible or the positioning is indeed a disaster.
I need to retest with the antenna axis vertical, I think.
Any thoughts ?
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When I was messing around with the Huawei router I found it very very sensitive to exact antenna orientation. Based my experience then, you really want a live read out of RSRP while trying different locations or orientation. Is this still with your 3G dongle, if so then of course it'll be a 3G parameter to be monitored.
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It is with the 3G dongle
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Janet has re-oriented the antenna to have its axis of symmetry vertical, sucker cup is on a horizontal surface, and I need to do another speed test to compare the signal strength indirectly. I don’t have a way of getting the actual signal strength readings out of it.
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[apologies for the length of this post; seems to have grown into a monster ;) ]
I have a 3G USB ‘dongle’ interface and I wished to use this with my Firebrick router, which has a USB port on it intended specifically for this purpose. I wanted to position the dongle in the window where it would get a direct view of the basestation across the glen to the east/northeast. So I bought a 5m long USB cable which is - I think, can’t remember - described as ‘active’. I had the idea that 3m was the maximum length but I think that that was still in old money and it’s maybe 5m for USB 2.0, so that’s why I bought the active cable.
I would have thought that such a device would need an external DC PSU input, no? This has none, so I’m assuming that it’s just simply designed to live off the ample power available from the USB cable. Is that usual?
The dongle connection has been monitored by AA’s usual PPP LCP ping servers (FB60xx series) and in the past the connection has repeatedly been seen as down. I don’t know whether this is sometimes a problem with 3G or the mobile network’s connection back to AA, but there has certainly been a problem with the 3G dongle as when the link to the dongle is seen by AA as down, I have gone to try Firebrick FB2900 and asked it what’s up, and the FB2900 says that the dongle has gone out to lunch. The USB port is shown as up, but iirc no dongle device seen on it, and certainly no 3G PPP sessions shown on the USB i/f.
So badness with either the dongle, the FB2900’s USB i/f, the dongle driver, or the USB cable. So the easiest way to eliminate one of those is to get rid of the active cable and plug the dongle straight into the FB2900, which is the usual way it’s done, and is the way that Firebrick Ltd tested the system. This is a known good model of dongle, recommended by AA and used by them in their testing so there shouldn’t be any bugs in the dongle itself or the FB2900’s code because this is then all a known setup. The dongle should still have a line of sight to the basestation given where the FB2900 is; on the south wall of the upstairs office, facing north, bay window on the east side of the room, so there’s a line of sight to the northeast just right for the basestation and dongle. I’m wondering if the FB2900 USB port doesn’t supply enough power for ‘extras’, ie anything above one dongle, so perhaps not enough for a greedy active USB i/f regenerator device at the far end.
Assuming the active cable has a regenerator at the dongle end, won’t it need a second one at the FB end too? I haven’t studied it.
Next bad thing. I bought a small external antenna from somewhere, I forget - either eBay or Amazon. This plugs into a tiny port on the dongle. I’m wondering if this was absolutely rubbish and the dongle would be better without it. I asked Janet to unplug the antenna, can’t remember whether she got around to it or not - will have to ask her. I also iirc talked to her about getting rid of the active cable, but again, am not sure whether she has done so yet or not.
Anyway, the 3G link has been problem free for a long time, which is a big change seeing as before it would be down/up/down several times in the day, down for a couple of hours approx each time. And this improvement may be because Janet has made some of these physical changes, will have to ask her. She’s very unwell at the moment, recovering from surgery, so I haven’t pestered her with unimportant things such as asking her to inspect dongle connections. Several years back, the 3G link would be fine for months on end and then go down, for reasons unknown. I had a moan about it with AA, and wanted them to set up a long term test bed, but I did warn them that I had to wait several months for mine to fail, and for all I know it could be something to do with my basestation which will possibly be different with theirs. Anyway they weren’t immediately willing and I didn’t push. I can’t remember, but I suspect that back then such a link down state would also be associated with a no dongle and/or no 3G-session being visible at the FB2900. It could be that now we’re back to that improved but still unacceptable level of reliability.
I say ‘unacceptable’ because it shouldn’t be happening, as this is a critical link used for failover and must always be there when called upon, and also because there’s currently nothing to tell me that it has failed. AA could do this but they have (somehow) set dongle and other mobile connection objects in clueless to have no notification events associated with them. This is fair enough for 3G/4G/5G interfaces used in portable devices such as an iPad as there would otherwise be lots of bogus irrelevant notifications all the time whenever the host goes out of signal, goes into deep-sleep or ‘off’ or off mode. There need to be explicit flags visible to control this behaviour: suggest a fixed-position/movable flag and/or a notifications y/n flag. The former, fixed-position, state would cause notifications to be delivered and the device would always be expected to be in signal and up or else it’s considered that something bad has happened. I might suggest this to AA as it’s an easy change.
If I do a bit of research or just ask AA, I think that there might be a way to get the FB to generate notification events when a dongle goes down. It can possibly turn notification events into emails, I think.
I wanted to do IP ICMP ping monitoring using the servers at https://f8lure.mouselike.org/, but a traceroute into the IPv4 address associated with the FB2900-end of the 3G link seems to show a route that is insane, so ping monitoring isn’t currently possible. The route comes into my firebrick at the normal WAN i/f; this will be DSL now, as normal, in the non-failover state; from there the route goes to the designated IPv4 for the dongle at the downstream end of the 3G link at the firebrick; next it goes back up the 3G link to an AA router and then reverses heading back downstream to the dongle again, so a routing loop! My fault definitely. AA will reroute traffic when all my DSL links fail and direct traffic into the ‘secondary routing’-marked links in clueless.aa.net.uk, which in this case are set to be the 3G link. The route downstream to the explicit FB-end of the 3G link should as I see it always be down the 3G link. This is what I need to be able to ICMP-ping the 3G link to test it. I’m pretty sure that I have messed up the tickboxes for primary and ‘secondary routing’ controls for each link in clueless and am asking AA to have a look and tell me what a wally I’ve been.
If I go to a 4G dongle - AA sent me one free, but Janet may have ‘filed’ it, so that could be trouble- then this might well be the type that is an ethernet device, and not a PPP-speaking modem, but a stupid NATing router. The enforced NAT is a disaster, so I decided not to use it and didn’t have the mental energy to investigate the possibility of reconfiguring it to be a straight modem (and didn’t have the required tools anyway). But now I have read that L2TP services are free to all AA users. I thought you had to pay for L2TP, but that seems to be just for people who are not current customers. I could use L2TP to route all known traffic to my existing IPv4 /26 and my IPv6 /64 (out of a /48) so I would get seamless failover provided I get the reduced MTU right and make it a permanent restriction. I could let IPv4 fragmentation and keep the MTU at 1500 and maybe the upstream end of the L2TP might reassemble all fragments, maybe not, but AA do growl at you if you pass fragments through.
So a lot of varied questions - quite a few things that I need to ask AA about as I don’t know what I’m doing, but perhaps you could put me straight in some of them.
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A lot of questions!
Firstly, L2TP. "officially", AAISP have two kinds of L2TP:
* Failover - You can use your existing broadband credentials (abcd@a.N) to create an L2TP connection. When this is active, AAISP will give this priority and route traffic over it instead of the broadband connection. This is a standard feature on all broadband accounts.
* Standalone - this is the £10/month for 1TB service, and will be on a different login (and a different quota) to any existing services. So you can't use this to route your existing IPs.
In the past, I think AAISP used to give out free extra L2TP-only "lines" on your existing login which would come out of your existing quota, but I'm not sure if they will do that any more - but maybe something you could enquire about.
Secondly, USB - I can't help you with the issue of active cables, but I do think you should avoid USB modems, and just try a standalone router/modem. A few reasons:
* All USB modems seem to be quite old, meaning they have low "category" LTE modems. It's rare to find anything above Category 4, which excludes carrier aggregation (it was introduced with Category 6, and improved in the later categories).
* You will be limited in location to somewhere near your Firebrick. With a standalone router, you can place it anywhere you can get an ethernet cable to. You can even get external routers.
* They "just work"
I'm currently using a mini POE-powered router (AR-150) with USB modem (ZTE MF823) to give a failover 4G connection to my Firebrick. This is double-NAT (NAT in my mini router, NAT in the USB device), but I don't mind as it's just used for L2TP to AAISP. This is located in the loft, with the Firebrick in a 4G-unfriendly cupboard under the stairs and a 10m cable between them.
However, I'm looking to get a better modem supporting carrier aggregation, so will be replacing that setup with a standalone modem, probably the Huawei B535, which are selling at around £50 in ebay auctions, or around £100-£120 from Amazon.
But it sounds like for your setup (long distance from mast, thick stone walls), you may benefit from an externally-mounted router (or at least antenna), so I would definitely think about getting one installed professionally. Perhaps a satellite TV installer would do it for you.
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Thank you so much for your recommendations! A very generous reply, much appreciated.
It’s probably two or three miles to the basestation. Should be able to see it from where the Firebrick is in the room through the east-facing bay window. The really thick (six foot thick!) stone wall is behind the FB; it’s the gable end of the old house. You’re right about the external antenna; if the signal strength turns out to be poor inside the room, then that will be the way to go, but we should be fine given the ideal orientation.
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We have had a discussion about your USB dongle and the "active" cable in the past. I seem to recall that the end result was that you scrapped the "active" cable.
I'll try to find your earlier post, when time permits. ;)
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This thread? https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23777.msg401387.html#msg401387
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This thread? https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,23777.msg401387.html#msg401387
Thanks, jelv. That could well be it. (Or there could be others . . . )
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Thank you both ! The ME/CFS and pain drugs have destroyed my memory completely, a problem that you will have repeatedly noticed here. I beg your indulgence.
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Would you like me to merge both threads? If yes, would you like the new merged into the old or the old merged into the new . . . (My personal preference would be the former.)
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Yes please, as you chose. Didn’t appreciate the full Powers of The Black Paw.
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Didn’t appreciate the full Powers of The Black Paw.
New merged into the old whilst retaining the old subject line, with a little edit. :)
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We've found really poor performance with USB dongles, maybe OK if you only get 3G but rotten on 4G. Does your firewall have an Ethernet port available? A better solution would be a standalone 4G router, configured to pass through it's IP address. However if you're using A&A L2TP then maybe double NAT wouldn't be an issue as you'd be routing to/from your A&A issued addressing. Double NAT makes it easier as most 4G routers want to issue DHCP addressing on their LAN ports, and you'd also be able to access the router for management.
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I definitely would like to go the 4G router route, no pun intended at all. I just need to be well enough to handle the config and talk my wife through the business of plugging the kit in. I’ve been too ill for several years and have kept on putting off the whole subject of 4G. Our Kitizens understandably think I’m just being awkward about the subject but after I got my Solwise 4G wireless NATin disaster/crisis/emergency standalone router set up and tested, Janet went and ‘filed’ it after it went down to England to see her mum in Staffordshire, and then I never did any further 4G developments. I know the Solwise router got back here because it was never unpacked down there, as it turned out not to be needed on that occasion, so it must be here.
After that, I got the AA 3G dongle and failover up and running, with a permanent IP MTU of 1500 in IPv4, and a 3G device IP MTU of 1440, an IPv6 permanent MTU choice of 1408, and in a 6in4 tunnel when in failover. (1408 = n * 48 - 32; 32 bytes is my ADSL2 protocols’<=PPP total byte overhead and this is ADSL2 with ATM hence the multiples of 48 bytes payload per cell.)
But I have been wanting to go further and get something that ideally is a straight bridge/modem, or failing that I can go L2TP, but it’s a bit of a shame about the MTU. At the moment 3G speed is a bit rubbish, but it works at the moment and it’s only for failover. That can be either dongle or ethernet router.
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Its perfectly understandable in your position.
As you pointed out, you have 4G on other devices and your current setup works without yet another external device and having to fiddle with the Firebrick configuration.
Combined with the one time you need it (lightening strikes) you saying the local mast goes down, its understandable not to want to put the effort in to change things that already work, when your "good days" are limited and better served to other things.
I haven't had the energy to tidy my room in 2 years. I mean I do bits, but its such a mess nobody who doesn't see it every day would notice its improved.
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I would set up a standalone basic 4G solution to start with and see how it goes in terms of speed and usability. Once content that it is a viable solution then I'd look at integrating it into the rest of the system.
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Perhaps I can also add some thoughts to this thread, especially as I am looking to upgrade my fail over system which uses a USB mobile dongle.
I have a TP-Link W9970 which has fail over capabilities via USB connection.
I currently have a Huawei E367 dongle (3G).
The major bug with this set up is that when the fibre connection to the W9970 drops the USB dongle does not automatically switch over. I have to unplug the phone line to the W9970.
I think that the W9970 is repeatedly trying to reconnect on the fibre connection and this prevents the Huawei dongle from kicking in. The W9970 is a cheap unit and perhaps this is the issue. If I pull the phone line from the W9970, then the mobile dongle works.
The other issue is that speeds are not that good on the dongle usually 5 down and 2 up (on Three) but it's a back up so that is ok. I did try to plug an internal antenna on the Huawei 3G dongle but that was a total waste of time.
I did think of upgrading to a 4G dongle but they virtually all come with the HiLink software installed which creates a double NAT, as they behave like a router. There are some 4G dongles that are just modems and some can be flashed from HiLink to become just modems.
These 4G units also consume over 3Watts, so I could not just plug them into the W9970 as it would blow the USB 2.0 port and so there would need to be a powered USB hub installed.
I then tried the Huawei B535 since it is a CAT 7 device capable of Carrier Aggregation (CA) as a standalone unit. Tried all the mobile networks and EE was the best 50 dn 25 up and steady (but it has CGNAT which maybe an issue). Three's service with no CGNAT is clearly oversubscribed in my area as speeds where cr*p. During the day speeds all over the place, mostly 10 dn and 5 up. After 1am speeds were great 75 dn 25up !!
I was also using LTE-H Monitor to set the CA bands manually having looked then up on cellmapper.
So am now looking to get a Ubiquiti router (started a thread) to be able to get fail over that actually works. From the YouTube videos I have seen it's worth a stab and the unit is reasonably cheap. The YouTube video below says load balancing in title but discusses fail over.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYLvcr1f6Do (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYLvcr1f6Do)
If you get a 4G mobile router then be careful as most will not have bridge or IP Passthrough mode.
Good Luck and Hope you feel better
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I don’t understand why there is this difference between 4G- and 3G-only capable USB ‘dongle’ devices. And why should anyone be selling a 3G-only device even in 2015? The capability to be a simple bridge or PPP+PPPoE-speaking modem is a valuable asset surely, so why provide it in 3G-only devices and not give it in all 4G-devices?
One thought about changing router: You can rent a FB2900 from AA now, and that makes it very affordable; don’t have to find £500+ up front now. The FB2900 certainly works regarding failover. Just a thought, may not make any sense at all in your situation.
The FB also can know when the link has really ‘gone down’, in the sense of appearing ‘up’ while in fact being useless, because as well as seeing PPPoE going down, the FB2900 can employ continuous PPP LCP ping monitoring so it knows whether or not the whole link is really working or not. My FB PPP-LCP-pings the link every few seconds.