Kitz Forum
Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: tickmike on August 21, 2019, 02:44:12 PM
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Do I remember that VirginMedia has had/got problems with there internet networks in parts of the country ?, I am trying to help someone who has just moved in to a flat in Colchester area, a speed test with 'Ookla' last night was max 2.5 Mbps Down 0 up :(, just now was 27 Mbps down 21 up. at about 2pm
A file down load varied between 7Kbps to 1200Kbps at around 20.30 last night. :o
The landlord supplies the internet connection and believes it to be very good. :'(
What can this person do ?.
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who is the account holder? the tenant or the landlord?
if it's the landlord then the tenant can't do anything really as virgin won't speak to them.
the local cab/area might be conjested which would explain the varying speeds. or there might be a fault on the line.
the hub3 will will give you the connection stats, which will tell you if there is a line fault or not (these can be posted on the virgin forum for someone to look at).
also, i'm sure you know, but don't do speed tests whilst connect to WIFI, as the hub3 has notoriously bad WIFI.
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21Mb up suggests at least the 200Mb package.
Virgin have heavily invested in their network over the last couple years and there's A LOT less congestion on their network now.
I find it hard to believe it's that congested that 200/20 crawls to 2.5/0 at peak.
It sounds to me like there's a specific issue on the line/area or EU equipment.
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posting the router stats on the virgin forum will confirm is there is a line issue or not.
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who is the account holder? the tenant or the landlord?
Landlord , House is an HMO with six Professional tenants.
Yes test had to be over WiFi (as Ethernet not set up in this flat yet due to missing patch cable), But I got the tenant to send me some photo's, the VM box is under the stairs, next to that is a TPLink Archer C5 looks to be set up as a router with 2.4Ghz and 5GHz, four antenna .
Also there is a TPLink WiFi extender base unit with the Second part in the communal living room, There is also an unidentified box I can not see properly in the photo, There must be a Network switch in the property somewhere as there are Six Flats and I would think each has a CAT6 Ethernet socket, Also evident it is like a Rats nest of wires / cables all around the Router aerials, Not good :o
I will try and post the photo later.
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testing via WIFI is totally unreliable.
you won't be able to know for sure whether the issue is simply WIFI related or virgin related.
as the person is not the account holder they won't be able to do anything if it's a virgin issue, as virgin will only speak to the account holder.
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I wonder if its possible to connect to the network via a smartphone? If so, then you could stand near the router and do a speed test, and if its vastly higher than the speeds you were getting then its probably a wifi issue.
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testing via WIFI is totally unreliable.
you won't be able to know for sure whether the issue is simply WIFI related or virgin related.
Yes I know, But when that is the only way.
as the person is not the account holder they won't be able to do anything if it's a virgin issue, as virgin will only speak to the account holder.
I am going down to see the person next week so can do more in-depth tests and also take Ethernet patch cables with me, I think the landlord who I have met is very approachable about any problems with the property.
I wonder if its possible to connect to the network via a smartphone? If so, then you could stand near the router and do a speed test, and if its vastly higher than the speeds you were getting then its probably a wifi issue.
Yes I do have an app on my phone and yes I did that and at 16.03 on 13.8.19 it was 17Mbps Down and 17up, ping 18ms, jitter 26ms,0 packet loss.that was on 2.4GHz
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Is it worth trying to re-boot the VM box ?.
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I find it hard to believe it's that congested that 200/20 crawls to 2.5/0 at peak.
6-7 years ago, my Virgin Media in the Bristol area was congested to the point where I was barely seeing better than dial up speeds. There was a long running thread on the VM Forums about it and it was very noticeable that things improved dramatically when the students were on holiday. So I could believe that tickmike is having congestion issues.
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How do you know what the other 5 tenants are doing with the connection? Even testing via network cable is going to be meaningless unless you're the only one using the connection.
One of the other users could easily be downloading torrents for instance.
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Or indeed saturating the upload, which can make your download speeds seem poor (no bandwidth to send the ack packets).
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Yes good points but I think there was no one in when the tests where done, but it is somethink I will look at when I do other tests.
While on a 'Teamviewer' session the other night I tried to access the 'TPLink Archer C5 router' and got straight in ;) so when I go down next week I will have a better look what is going off.
To access the VM box (which should be on a different IP address) Should I look for the above routers gateway IP address ?.
Asking the tenant last night to send me a screen shot of there phone WiFi connection page, 1 in there flat, 2 in the living area.
There seem to be Five Different SSID's . :-\
Looks like two from the VM box 2.4GHz and 5GHz
Two from the TPLink Archer C5 router 2.4GHz and 5 GHz
and last the TPLink WiFi extender in the living area 2.4GHz
The tenant has only a password for I think to be the Archer C5 router WiFi .
Would you agree the the WiFi on the VM box needs turning off (which is next to the Archer C5 Box !) to stop the signal fighting with the routers signal ?.
Also the TPLink WiFi extender needs to be paired with the 2.4Ghz Wifi SSID of the Archer C5 box ? and use the same password.
The landlord last week admitted he knows nothing of WiFi / Internet set up. :(
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Yes to both your questions, in my opinion at least.
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it would sound like the VM hub is still in "router" mode.
if the tp-link is also in router mode then you have double NAT - not the best situation to be in.
ideally the VM Hub should be in modem mode and simply passed the WAN IP to the to-link to then be the router.
in modem mode the VM hub is simply a modem and does nothing else (ie no WIFI, DHCP, routing etc).
VM hub in router mode 192.168.0.1
VM hub in modem mode 192.168.100.1
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Hi
I am sorry, I am getting lost here
Are all flats served by the VM connection or is the vm connection dedicated to this flat
Double or treble nat should work lovely without causing slow downs (certainly not to the stated degree and as shown range 0 - 21 up I think from memory)
If all flats using vm connection, then you cannot put vm in modem mode or you will stop other flats
Many thanks
John
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wasn't suggesting that double NAT would cause the speed issues, but it's not desirable.
it's likely there may even be 2 DHCP servers running on the network.
putting the hub into modem mode would have no affect on the other flats if they are already connecting via the tp-link router.
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Hi
Many thanks
My impression was the tp link was dedicated to that flat and not all flats but could be wrong sorry
Many thanks
John
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Sorry me not explaining enough, For all the flats there is only One VM internet connection.
The TP Link Archer C5 router and the TPLink WiFi Extender in the living room is also for all the flats.
I know the gateway address for the TP Link Archer C5 router is 192.168.0.1 as that is what I used to access it in a web browser.
Would that suggest the VM box is in modem mode as you can not have both with 192.168.0.1 !
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do you mean the IP address of the TP-Link is 192.168.0.1 or the gateway is 192.168.0.1
they are not the same thing.
if the VM hub is in modem mode then then you wouldn't be seeing VM WIFI SSIDs, unless you are seeing a neighbouring VM WIFI network.
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do you mean the IP address of the TP-Link is 192.168.0.1 or the gateway is 192.168.0.1
they are not the same thing.
Well when I was in a Teamviewer session I looked at the tenants laptop Ip address and I think it was 192.168.0.135
Gateway 192.168.0.1
DNS 192.168.0.1
so I used 192.168.0.1 to get to the Archer C5 Routers stats, I did not have time to try to look at the VM box stats (will next week)
if the VM hub is in modem mode then then you wouldn't be seeing VM WIFI SSIDs, unless you are seeing a neighbouring VM WIFI network.
Good point .
But looking at the signal strength would say not.
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Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virgin_Media
Looks like the connection could use Bandwidth throttling :(
But if the landlord has a Business package then I believe that does not use Bandwidth throttling.
Photo under the stairs equipment.
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virgin don't bandwidth throttle anything, be it home or business
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the photo doesn't tell us much really, other than that's an old virgin hub (it's not the latest version).
you need to be there to see exactly what is configured, and how.
however, the location for the WIFI AP is very poor (ie in a cupboard).
it's no wonder WIFI range is rubbish.
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Other members of the household don't need to be there, their computers will happily continue downloading or uploading without them there ;)
Not sure on the early virgin hubs, but the hub 3 has a purple light on the bottom when in modern mode. The login details should be on the bottom of it, I doubt they've been charged.
Put the hub in modem mode, and turn off WiFi on the TP and connect via cable then you can speed test safe in the knowledge no one else is connected, provided you've disconnected all other network cables.
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actually the best method is to put the hub in modem mode then connect your laptop direct to the hub, then do a speedtest.
that tests the actual line without the TP-Link being involved.
then you see if the line is fine without any other hardware getting in the way.
also worth remebering that when in modem mode only 1 of the ethernet ports will work.
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If I do the above checks and get found out then the tenant could be asked to leave, awkward :'(
I forgot to ask, in my photo what is that white box tucked at the back of the water pipes, looks like it has the USB type power lead to it, also has a green led near the floor (as seen in another photo).
Could it be an Ethernet switch ?.
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Can't see it properly but it looks not too dissimilar to my Hive Hub which controls my heating/lighting.
Mine is a v2 and needs to be attached directly to the router and has what looks like exactly the same USB power lead to plug. I doubt a landlord would go to the trouble though of fitting smart heating?
Actually I've just pulled my hub out. I turned it upside down and stood it on its end.... it does indeed look like a v2 Hive Hub that she has there.
You can't see the logo in that photo because it's wedged behind the pipe, but if you moved it slightly to the right.. there would be an upside down hive printed on the box. It threw me slightly because that hub is upside down and stood on its backend.
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If I do the above checks and get found out then the tenant could be asked to leave, awkward :'(
So why not ask the landlord and get their permission explaining the situation, you've said he's very approachable?
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Can't see it properly but it looks not too dissimilar to my Hive Hub which controls my heating/lighting. Thank you, 10 out of 10 looking at another photo from a different angle your are correct, as I can see the 'Hi' bit of the word.
I doubt a landlord would go to the trouble though of fitting smart heating?
This place is more like a Luxury apartment and yes I do believe that what it has.
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So why not ask the landlord and get their permission explaining the situation, you've said he's very approachable?
Yes will end up doing that once I have a bit more evidence.
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Reading this I'm thinking WiFi congestion is a more likely culprit. Bet at least some of the extenders are running in mesh rather than AP mode, and the signal will be pretty poor performance anyway.
That the service seems to be basically symmetrical off peak suggests that that's all the capacity available via WiFi at that time, and congestion alongside other RF conditions break things at peak.
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Yes I agree, see what I can sort out in the next few days when I go to see the tenant.
I have a spare TP Link AV600 power line Extender, I am testing it on my own network now with just using the TL-WPA4220 part of the extender kit (eg not using the base unit).
Plugging my LAN to one Ethernet port and I find it acts as a good Access point.
So what I will do for the tenant is to put it in there flat and plug in there wall Ethernet wall socket via a suitable patch cable.
Give them there own SSID network and own password, From where there flat is located this should give a good WiFi signal though out the building and will have there own personal network. ;D
This unit has a spare Ethernet port as well. :)
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well they won't have their own personal "network".
they will have their own SSID, but still sharing all the bandwidth and conjestion that is already there.
in fact, adding yet another SSID may make it worse than it already is.
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I was wondering about this ^
As she moves through various locations in the house then obviously the signal is going to be better from various network devices and APs.
There is the probability her phone could remain connected to one AP as opposed to reconnecting to the one in say in the lounge which could be giving her a better signal as most phones won't drop connection with one device until signal from the other becomes pretty low - regardless or not if one of the other network devices could be giving her a better signal.
I also pondered about the possibility that if when entering the property her phone automatically connects to the wifi on the tplink and that when she moves to her own 'personal space' then there is no guarantee that her phone will then automatically swap to using the wifi extender tickmike is thinking of installing for her if she still is getting a half decent connection from the tplink.
Separate SSIDs will make it easier to [manually] switch between devices. You may need to look at phone settings for signal tolerance before searching for a new device, or there may be an app that can give more control for automatically switching between various devices by adjusting levels to switch at and which access point to give priority to.
Thinking about this further, Mike said in an earlier post that there was already a wifi extender with a separate SSID then there is already the possibility that she could get a better wifi connection by forcing a manual switch to the other AP? Without physically being there and seeing the layout and settings from the phone it's hard to advise. There may be an app which could make things easier which iirc from previous posts was an iphone.
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the whole system appears to be quite a mess and, to be honest, personnly i wouldn't touch it with a barge pole unless the landlord/owner had given specific authorisation to try and fix it. any change you make may adversely affect someone else, and because you made the change you would be then responsible for fixing it.
my advice? leave it well alone and let the landlord pay for someone to come in and asses the requirements.
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so what was the outcome of the visit?
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Update .
not long got back.
Landlord away so Did not touch anything of the 'Mess' of the set up.
What I did do, Speed test on my phone app in the tenants flat = 0.34 Mbps Down and 16.5Mbps up :o before I started.
Then plugged into a wall mains socket a spare TPLink AV600 power line Extender, plugged in the Ethernet patch cable from the wall socket into one Ethernet port on the bottom of the above device, plugged in another patch lead into the second port and then into the laptop.
Powered it up, checked on my phone app and the download had gone up to 22.7Mbps and up 17.9Mbps ;D
also good speed check results down stairs. ;D
I told the tenant that on there phone only to have this new SSID network for the WiFi.
I will give my recommendations as what the landlord could do to improve the set up to the tenant, the other five tenants are all moaning about the Poor WiFi in some parts of the property.
Looking under the stairs where the VM box and router is located is far worse than I suspected with metal step ladder type steps, a vacuum cleaner (metal) and a lot of junk in there ,not sure how any WiFi signal gets out.
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I think you need to be advising the landlord to simplify things. It seems there’s a mess of WiFi networks going on when really you just want one network with one SSID. That should cut out interference problems.