Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: tiffy on May 11, 2019, 08:19:53 PM
-
Next door neighbour is with Talk Talk, ADSL2 (likely +), LLU service, getting rubbish speeds, approx. 2 Mbps DS data speed, would like to try and find out exactly what's going on, suspect internal wiring is very much suspect.
I was achieving very close to 15 Mbps DS data speed (quite a long line) when on ADSL2+ with Plusnet before I migrated to VDSL2, we live in a low density area, mostly pensioners, no known external noise or contention issues.
They use the standard supplied TT modem/router which seems to be locked down, can't get DSLStats or RouterStats running, not sure exactly which router model TT supply, they did get a replacement about a year ago from TT..
I have a spare ZyXEL VMG1312-B10D and a Billion 8800NLr2 which are both DSLStats friendly, would like to temporarily deploy one of these and run DSLStats to get a better idea of what's going on, question being, will it just be a matter of setting up for ADSL2(+) service and entering ID & PW ?
-
Depends how your going to setup the network with your equipment as a bridged modem or not.
If your not then yes it's a simple case of setting it up for an ADSL2+ LLU connection with the correct username and password. If your going bridge it's just a case of setting up the talk talk router to use pppoe ATM through wan.
But as I said it depends on how your going to set it up.
-
@hacktrix2006:
Thanks for the reply.
Would propose to temporarily replace the TT modem/router with one of my devices as a "one box" modem/router setup, would probably add a Raspberry Pi Zero W as I have a spare running DSLStats, I already run 2 remotely on my son and daughters lines, could then remotely monitor via VNC..
Was really just wondering if there were any pecularities regarding ID's and PW's on the TT system or restrictions on replacement modems/routers, will I be able to add ID & PW via the router CLI as per normal ?
-
As far as I know you just put in username and password. Settings should be
MTU 1432
VPI 0
VCI 38
PPPOA VC-MUX
Then your username and password.
Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk
-
Things have moved on a bit . . .
The username/password credentials can be anything/anything (that is anything other than null) and the MTU can be left at 1500. Everything else as hacktrix2006 has listed, above.
-
Things have moved on a bit . . .
The username/password credentials can be anything/anything (that is anything other than null) and the MTU can be left at 1500. Everything else as hacktrix2006 has listed, above.
It's been awhile since I was on a LLU service with talk talk. Only knew the old settings.
But thanks for info.
Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk
-
@hacktrix2006:
Thanks for the information, will set up my spare Billion & RPi ZW tomorrow and give it a try on Monday presuming my neighbours have a record of their ID & PW or I can get into the TT router CLI to find.
Would be nice to get a few days of stats. before I start to have a look at their internal wiring & sockets, I know they don't have a modern, filtered master socket as their original install was "self", goodness knows what extension wiring has been added, Sky box etc., with or without filters ?
They would like to ditch Sky and try one of the web based services which would struggle at their present data rate, FTTC is available, I get DS synch. of 40 Mbps., however, they would like to avoid the additional expense involved if possible.
-
Things have moved on a bit . . .
The username/password credentials can be anything/anything (that is anything other than null) and the MTU can be left at 1500. Everything else as hacktrix2006 has listed, above.
Thanks b*cat for the additional information, modem/router should be easily configured then, they did mention that the replacement unit from TT about a year ago was just plug & play, I assumed that the ID & PW may have been pre-configured by TT..
-
Got around to fitting my spare Billion 8800NL r2 modem/router & RPi ZW running DSLStats to my neighbours ADSL2+ line today to temporarily replace the supplied TalkTalk modem/router.
As advised in this post, no specific ID & PW required, connected without any issues, synch. speed better than expected @ 7162/1019 kbps but should be a lot better, I was synch'ing @ close to 15000 kbps DS (next door) when on ADSL2+.
Can now monitor the line stat's from home via VNC to get a longer term idea of performance.
Have attached (hopefully) QLN & HLog snapshots and would appreciate any comments from some of the better informed forum members.
As previously mentioned, the house wiring is very likely the biggest suspect, still has the very old style master socket and many extensions with currently unknown connection methods.
-
There is certainly something wrong with the local, internal, wiring. The Hlog plot does not show the classic shape for a bridging tap but does scream "wiring problems".
The QLN plot shows broad-based RF ingress which should reduce one the wiring problem is resolved.
My starting point would be to understand where the EU would like to have telephone(s) located and where they would like to have the CPE connected. Once the above has been established, see if there is any obvious way that the CPE could be connected to the incoming line as the first logical item. Fit a new NTE5/A with a Mk 3 SSFP at that location (whilst wearing your "Openreach" hat ;) ) and scrap the old Line Jack Unit (LJU), the old style master socket. Then all other wiring just becomes an internal extension to feed the telephone(s).
-
Many thanks b*cat, was hoping you would spot this and advise as the undoubted QLN/HLog analysis expert.
Yes, the NTE5A/Mk.3 SSFP combination would be my preference also as opposed to the current NTE5C/Mk.4 VDSL combination, I utilised the former myself when I migrated to VDSL2 service, have never liked the build quality of the later Mk.4 VDSL box, a view shared by many of the forum patrons as you know.
The Mk.3 SSFP is now quite difficult to source and expensive, "run-iT-direct" list it at £28.99 (with VAT) and they no longer supply the OR branded NTE5A master socket but can still supply an unbranded (equivalent) item.
The line is underground and the house entry point which would be the logical location for the master socket is not where the modem/router is currently situated, obviously there are a number of ways around this but until I work out the actual cable runs won't know the best options.
It's a bungalow, timber framed with easy roof space access and partially floored so should not be too difficult.
If any additional cable runs are required I will use Cat5e cable.
-
A further thought before getting too involved with house wiring and as process of elimination.
Would it be OK for test purposes to connect a "flying" old style, unfiltered master socket directly to the line with all the POTS gubbins disconnected (with my OR hat on of course) then connect the modem/router directly to this, with or without a "rat tail" filter ?
Think I remember J0hn saying that his 1312-B10A modem directly connected to an unfiltered master socket as the phone line was never used, could have got that wrong.
-
Would it be OK for test purposes to connect a "flying" old style, unfiltered master socket directly to the line with all the POTS gubbins disconnected (with my OR hat on of course) then connect the modem/router directly to this, with or without a "rat tail" filter ?
For testing purposes, yes. With no POTS equipment (a.k.a. telephone) connected, no "rat's tail" (nasty vermin) microfilter would be required. All CPE devices have an inbuilt high-pass filter which will block the DC and baseband frequencies.
Think I remember J0hn saying that his 1312-B10A modem directly connected to an unfiltered master socket as the phone line was never used, could have got that wrong.
You have got that quite right! :D
-
@b*cat:
Many thanks for the confirmation, will give that a go after a few days monitoring of the existing installation, quite easy now from the cumfort of my own PC via VNC/DSLStats.
Just got a mail shot this morning from e-bay for a genuine branded OR NTE5C/VDSL Mk.4 combination for £6.50 (+£2.95 P&P), against my better judgment I ordered one, the prefered option of Mk.3 SSFP/NTE5A has become so costly now and the branded NTE5A difficult to source.
Link for any interested parties.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143221858285?ul_noapp=true (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/143221858285?ul_noapp=true)
Noted that the P&P was per item, ie., 2 cost £5.90, a bit naughty I thought !
-
Another quick question:
After a very brief review of my neighbours house tele. wiring today I have concluded that the best/easiest solution would be to run a new Cat5e cable from the UG cable entry point (where there is an existing J/B) to where the router/modem & desktop PC is currently situated and fit the new filtered master socket there, a flush mounted secondary tele. socket already exists there but would not trust the current wiring or cable routing.
My question, would it be permissable/advisable to utilise another pair within the new Cat5e cable (disregarding the bell wire) to carry the filtered extension wiring from the new master socket back to source where it would be quite easy to junction to any existing extension sockets that are still required ?
Apologies to mod. as I have gone somewhat off original topic (again) and into tele./data wiring issues, please feel free to move if deemed necessary.
-
I didn't make a concerted effort but with a quick scan I found the following items --
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BT-master-socket-NTE5a-Back-box-instructions-Tool/143137893615
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Master-socket-NTE5A-Genuinely-BT/273851257562
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Genuine-BT-Openreach-VDSL-Faceplate-MK3-For-NTE5a-Master-Socket-BNIB/323806997369
Your plan of action reads to be quite sensible, to me.
Hmm . . . Back-wiring. It does occur. It is occasionally done by Openreach technicians. But is generally "frowned upon" because the EU's owned wiring is then contained within the same sheath as Openreach's owned wiring.
-
@ b*cat:
Thanks for the links, need to refine my search skills.
Certainly makes the "run-IT-direct" unit I mentioned earlier look rather expensive.
Your comments on "back-wiring" noted and taken on board.
Will proceed with the temporary, "no POTS" direct modem/router connection as suggested earlier which should give a good indication of what the line is actually capable of on ADSL2+ and whether it's worth putting a lot of effort into re-wiring.
If the neighbour was actually contemplating changing to VDSL2, FTTC service, is available then the house wiring would become a more critical issue I would imagine.
-
Yesterday tried the Billion 8800NL r2 test modem/router (complete with RPi ZW running DSLStats) directly connected to the line with all associated POTS extension wiring disconnected, attached the recorded QLN & HLog snapshots.
To my very much untrained eye, there is not really a big difference from the original QLN & HLog snapshots as posted in reply #8 of this thread taken with all original house wiring still intact, perhaps a better informed forum patron could offer a more educated opinion ?
The DS synch speed attained with the test setup was exactly the same as previous with original house wiring, did try 2 additional re-synch's allowing 30 mins. down time between each.
From the tests carried out, have come to the conclusion that any further effort on my part to tidy up the house wiring and fit a new filtered master socket will not produce any worthwhile improvement in DS synch/data speed, neighbours are reluctant to get TalkTalk involved and think that this would be a waste of time anyway.
There likely first response would be, reading from their script as usual, plug router directly into master socket with SSFP removed which of course they can't do as still have old, unfiltered master socket !
-
Unfortunately both "before" and "after" plots have been created with different X-axis scales, so direct superimposition is not possible.
If you compare the two Hlog plots, it can be seen that the latter version is now as to be expected . . . a distinct improvement. The circuit defect has been eradicated.
If you compare the two QLN plots, things are not quite so clear cut. In the latter version the RF ingress can be seen to be diminished but there now is a "roll and hump" in the baseline. As the "hump" is up at the high frequency end, towards the circuit's performance limit, I am not too concerned.
-
@ b*cat:
Many thanks for your further analysis of the graphs, much appreciated, apologies for the x axis anomaly, your comments noted.
To be honest, my neighbours have very modest data requirements and are nor really concerned, their line performance is likely annoying me more than them at present as I know from personal experience that ADSL2+ service should be a lot better at their location being only yards away and fed from the same UG DP as my premesis.
They currently don't wish to raise an issue with TalkTalk.
Will call it a day on this as there are lots of other activities I really could be attending to and they are happy with their current service.
-
All received and understood. :drink:
-
I too have all of my B10As direct into the NTE5a with no filter and no POTS gubbins. I just use AA’s straight-through front-plates for the traditional NTE5as and I have one NTE5C with the telephony front on it instead of the SSFP.