Kitz Forum
Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: Weaver on April 22, 2019, 04:49:18 PM
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Bus stuck in the ditch at the extreme northern tip of Skye (approx near Tobhta Sgòir). My wife tells me that the yellow bus would not reverse into the passing place, preferring to get stuck instead. The other, large bus is just a local timetabled bus, who came along later.
(https://i.ibb.co/pfb6d9T/D5277-CB6-AAB9-4-ADC-B479-BC9-B7-ACDD5-FB.jpg")
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I have seen various stories over the years, where bus drivers have gotten themselves into a pickle because they genuinely believe “it is illegal to reverse a bus carrying passengers”.
That is, to the best of my knowledge, a complete and utter myth, with no foundation in law. A bus is allowed to reverse when necessary, like any other vehicle, with or without passengers. But it seems to be a myth that is propagated at bus driver training schools; one Possible explanation?
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I've never heard of that one before so googled it, one result said it was illegal without a another member of staff as the driver couldn't see out the rear window :no: There are a multitude of vehicles from small vans up to 44t artics that don't have rear windows. I also really cannot see PSV training schools spreading this myth, it is just ridiculous and probably a myth generated by the general public.
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If you google for “bus driver refused to reverse” (without the quotes) you’ll find lots of instances where bus drivers have blocked traffic, citing some kind of blanket illegality of reversing as the reason.
I’m sure it would not be easy to reverse a bus and I suppose, in the absence of a helper or reversing aid camera, it could be regarded as dangerous or careless driving, and illegal for that reason? But no more so than any other large vehicle. I often see artic drivers demonstrating incredible feats of reversing.
We have no local buses here any more. But before they were withdrawn, 5 years or so ago, the route terminated at the railway station, with an assigned bus stop outside. Getting there involved overshooting by a few hundred feet, then reversing into a side street to turn around.
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I've been reversing HGV's for almost 30 years, including artics, and full size car transporters, luckily it's mainly in our workshop/yard not on the public highway where our drivers have to contend with the public. A bus will be a lot easier to reverse than an artic, or if you want something really difficult try reversing a drawbar trailer which has a front axle on the a frame so that steers as well, they are that hard we normally move it backwards with forklift.
Perhaps some bus drivers spout this myth as they aren't up to the job and it makes things easier for them.
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To be fair, whilst I raised it as a possibility, we do not know for sure whether it explains the photo Weaver posted.
I do know, it isn’t just buses that prefer to “carry on regardless” instead of reversing. On a single track road through woodland on Isle of Mull in my own car a few years ago, I drove around a bend to find myself confronted by an oncoming car. He had only a short way to reverse, in a straight line to a passing place, whereas I had a lot longer to reverse, and the bend. I waited for him to reverse but he insisted on squeezing past, on the verge. I refused to cooperate, so began to reverse around the bend and all the way back to the last passing place. He wanted to prove how right he was, so pulled right over onto the verge to make room for me, and quickly sunk to his axles in the soft mud. ::)
By the time he got himself out again, wheels spinning furiously whilst deeply embedded in the mud, his alloy wheel must have been well trashed. And I suspect, some bumper damage. He showed no interest in stopping to discuss, I assume I had encountered a hire car.
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He was probably too embarrassed, and so he should be, unfortunately no matter what people are driving there will always be those who are inconsiderate or just lacking the ability/confidence.
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Must say, I do enjoy the single track roads in Scottish highland, and Island regions. Mostly national speed limit, and it’s surprising how often you find yourdelf doing that speed, and wanting to do more if only the law permitted - you just need to be prepared to slow at times, and slow a by a lot. If you meet oncoming traffic, passing places are well signed, so just not a problem. It is very rare that there is a need for anybody to reverse, except of course when tourists have used the passing places as car parks.
Contrast with single track lanes in South of England, which I hate. Usually no designated passing places at all, just local knowledge as to parts where “squeezing by” might work, and no particular “plan B” if squeezing doesn’t work. And many drivers seem unable to comprehend that, regardless of the speed limit, they need to modulate speed as the conditions change. Very often I find even the slightest bends in English single track roads have their own form of hazard markings... in the form of black skid marks, form recent near-misses. :(
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Before service cuts a year or so back, I used to ride several routes in Dorset and Wiltshire, and there several that involved more than one reverse manoeuvre, sometimes just to get round a narrow corner. On route, I cannot recall drivers having assistance, and in https://www.safedrivingforlife.info/controlling-your-bus is: "If you do not have a clear view when reversing, ask someone to help guide you from outside the vehicle". The routes being OMO and rural. I don't imagine an employed assistant.
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I grew up on a farm near the edge of the Staffordshire Moorlands, near the Alton Towers entertainment park in fact. Access to the farm was via a narrow lane with high hedges and in some places the lane was far below the level of the surrounding fields. In one place I would guess that the total height of the sides of the lane plus hedge was around fifteen feet. Visibility was atrocious and if you met a car there was absolutely nowhere to go and a head-on collision was likely. So you just had to go very slowly in places, be very alert and be ready to jump on the brakes and stand on them. Knowing where there was the odd gateway, which would allow passing, was essential. Strangers however would have no clue where such gateways were and there were no other passing places. I soon discovered a lot of ‘drivers’ simply cannot reverse and their embarrassment has to be covered up at all costs. I always reversed, never doing the silly standoff thing, because at least I could reverse, fairly swiftly too, and knew where I was reversing to, which was invariably a long long way.
In contrast at least here in the Highlands visibility is often excellent, and the high banks thing is not so prevalent. On the high moorland road into Heasta where I am, you can in most places get off the road in an emergency. There is one atrocious blind bend on a rise with a drop off on the one side and a bank on the other, so head on collision it is. A young doctor went straight on at this bend and ended up marooned right off the road, with his car’s belly rocking on a mound of peat. I towed him off with our landrover.
So for me, driving on the single track roads up here is a pleasure whereas in England, lanes that are not on high moorland can just be a pain and dangerous. I was very much accustomed to driving on shocking rural roads in England all the time, as well as driving in central London traffic, so was well prepared for the more pleasant roads of Skye.
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>> near the Alton Towers entertainment park in fact
On topic with buses/coaches and country routes. Does my memory serve correct?
Back in the very early days of Alton Towers when it only had the corkscrew, the cable car ride and nothing much else aside from the grounds... a few of us took a coach trip to Alton Towers as a day out. I seem to recall the coach struggling to navigate up a narrow and fairly steep road as it approached a zig zaggy bend which took some slow manoeuvring backwards and forwards a few times.
Not sure what year that would have been as the corkscrew had gained notoriety as being the best theme park ride in the UK.
We've been countless times since but do not recall having to navigate that route that was such a struggle for the coach, when driving there ourselves. Probably had to build a new road - either that or the coach driver took a wrong turn :D
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The buses were banned from driving to the park from the south which took them down a very steep windy road through the viallagr of Alton, below an incredible house that looks just like Dracula’s second home on the south side of the valley, crossing, the river heading northwards up the steep bank on the north side where there is an appealing bend with adverse camber on it, which I knew how to negotiate having done it hundreds of times in powerful cars and then up to the park’s gate. Now they have to come down from the north from the fast moorland high quality A-roads, which is just common sense. The A 52 and A 523 run west-southeast and northwest - southeast just above the Towers so provide no hassle fast access.
I was visiting the towers in the 60s, long before the corkscrew opened in the mid or late 1970s, I forget which. And I absolutely loved it back then, the gorgeous gardens, the cable car ride and best of all motor boats for hire on the lake. There was a shop that sold wobble rubber spiders which you could use to try and frighten your sister (fail) and your elderly relations (success).
I have always absolutely loved it. When I was at school quite a few kids had small jobs there.
It was lovely in the winter to be able to just walk around the gardens when it was quiet. With steep winding paths down into the valley.
My then new wife has never forgiven me for taking her on the ‘black hole’ a precipitous drop in total darkness. She screamed and screamed and started shouting ‘I want to get out I want to get out’ once the cars started moving before the ride proper had even really started, but was, thank god, firmly strapped or locked in. I suddenly realised that my glasses were going to fall off and regretted not having taken them off as I would have to hold them on for the duration, thus leaving me without the use of one hand to hold on. Pleased to say that my current wife is the same one as that poor victim of kinetic entertainment abuse and I seemed to be soon forgiven.
Some poor devils were trapped upside down for hours and hours on something a while back and someone else was badly injured in a different accident, so do go but forget the kinetic tortures and then you will not have to endure the crazy queues. They used to have ultra cheap tickets in winter when none of the rides were open, for some reason. Perhaps maintenance downtime? Anyway that is my tip.
I very very much regret that I will never see that part of the world again.
Quite possibly the best pub in the world bar none (seriously) is my dearly beloved YewTree at Cauldon Low a few miles away. A quirky museum and stunning-quality ale (all local breweries). I used to visit in the mid 1980s when it was run by two elderly ladies and their nephew Alan East. I have been to many hundreds of pubs in England, also Wales and Scotland too and I recognise my bias, but allowance for that has been made. You are only a couple of miles from the edge of the Peak District national park here.
Alton Towers could just about be seen from the north-facing bedroom window in my parents’ farmhouse high on a hill a few miles away. My uncle heard screams from the ‘pirate ship’ ride iirc.
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>> The buses were banned from driving to the park from the south which took them down a very steep windy road through the viallagr of Alton,
We would have come from the North and the coach went up that steep winding road.. I can't recall coming down it on the way back home, but it was a long time ago. The next time we went after that was when one of the lads had just passed his test and got his own car.. and we all piled in his (red ford escort!) for his first day trip out in it. I'm sure there would have been some cursing if he'd had to navigate that road :D
>> long before the corkscrew opened in the mid or late 1970s
Cant recall either, but that first trip by coach would have to have been after '82 but certainly before '85.
>> I absolutely loved it back then,
Yes it was mostly about the grounds and iirc parts of the home were also open to the public. Aside from the corkscrew all the other rides were a heck of a lot more tame. :D I think I recall the Blackhole opening - poor Janet :D :D
>> trapped upside down for hours and hours on something a while back
Saw that on the news. I believe it's since been dismantled.. it certainly had a place in theme park history :)
>> YewTree at Cauldon Low
We may have visited at one time, we certainly 'did' several pubs in the area, even stayed overnight at a small hotel near there off the A52. Not got a clue of any names though :/
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Well you didn’t know it but you were about four miles from my folks’ farm.
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I'm a bit late to this topic but I might be able give an opinion.
At the bus company I used to work for drivers were told never to reverse a bus without a banks-man. This was because of a number of incidents were members of the public were injured/crushed.
I know of a driver who reversed his bus on the road and was disciplined/fired for doing so.
So while it might not be illegal, it was certainly against bus company policy and could cost the driver their jobs.
Tim
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My wife and I walk along the old railway line from Oakamoor to Denstone the 'Churnet Way', (Alton station platform and buildings are an holiday lets now), in the winter time when Alton Towers are closed because of the traffic and the noise that comes from Alton Towers.
We also walk along canal and now heritage railway line in the Churnet valley which is the other side of the Oakamoor railway tunnel.
Nice area spoilt by Alton towers :(
Last time I went to Alton Towers a long time ago was when it was a large country house and gardens and not a ride anywhere :D
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Well Denstone is where my primary school is. (The old stone school right by the church and right next to the railway line. One of the teachers took us infants along the (dismantled) railway line for a nature walk, seeing how many wild flowers we could find. That would have been in the mid-late sixties.