Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: Alucidnation on March 14, 2019, 08:10:38 PM
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Hi Guys, as some may be aware, i have been and am having issues with various speed issues, and had the usual OR bull that everything is fine.
Anyway, I am currently running a ZyXel vmg1312 B10A on my ECI cab and it is picking up quite a few errors.
Could one of you take a look and give me your thoughts?
Is the amount of ES & CRC errors due to the lack of being corrected by FEC?
Thanks
Last Retrain Reason: 8000
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 15436 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59685 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 15348 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59673 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.1 6.1
Attn(dB): 18.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 6.9 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 17
B: 239 238
M: 1 1
T: 64 64
R: 0 16
S: 0.1280 0.4956
L: 15000 4116
D: 1 1
I: 240 255
N: 240 255
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 16201847 2085824
OHFErr: 110 0
RS: 0 2581468
RSCorr: 0 3
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 0
HEC: 176 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 3822638706 0
Data Cells: 204713310 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0
ES: 294 0
SES: 47 0
UAS: 1836 1792
AS: 33317
Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 2.05 7.96
OR: 93.38 23.11
AgR: 59766.53 15370.92
Bitswap: 282/284 107/107
Total time = 1 days 9 hours 38 min 42 sec
FEC: 0 11
CRC: 22441 0
ES: 294 0
SES: 47 0
UAS: 1836 1792
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 27 0
LOM: 26 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 42 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 9 hours 38 min 42 sec
FEC: 0 3
CRC: 8108 0
ES: 75 0
SES: 18 0
UAS: 1394 1379
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 6 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 8
CRC: 14333 0
ES: 219 0
SES: 29 0
UAS: 442 413
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 21 0
LOM: 26 0
Since Link time = 9 hours 15 min 17 sec
FEC: 0 3
CRC: 110 0
ES: 57 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
>
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The daily limit for ES is 2880 for the Speed profile, and you've got about 10% of that, so I can't really see how anyone could say about 200 to 300 ES per day is high.
If the stats had a count of all the CRCs that were OK, I'm guessing the number of CRC errors wouldn't look in any way high in comparison.
Yes I am aware you've had numerous Openreach visits over the last couple of months. Fortunately I deleted the other things I was going to write before posting.
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Turns out that i might be connected to a faulty port in the cabinet.
Apparently, it should be outputting at 120Mb, but is only putting out 113Mb.
After various requests from my ISP for them to perform a Lift and shift, and them finding any excuse to not do t (plus tell me they had done it, which were blatant lies) it turns out the cabinet is full, so there are no spare ports.
Why they couldn't just say that to start with, god knows.
About 3 meters away, an additional cabinet was installed a year or so ago, so i might get moved to that one instead.
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Apparently, it should be outputting at 120Mb, but is only putting out 113Mb.
No idea who told you that but they are talking nonsense
Engineers test the ports over tie cables, which are effected by crosstalk.
Every port tested will giving a different reading/attainable and the difference between 113 and 120 does not point to a faulty port.
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No idea who told you that....
Another bloody Openreach engineer!
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So what makes you think there is an issue?
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Random disconnections, speed drops etc.
Openreach have admitted there is a problem.
One guy came to do a lift and shift, but didn’t as he had apparently sorted the problem with their DCoE.
Had sync back at nearly 70 with no errors at all and was running fine.
Got up the next morning and I had a resync, back down to high 40’s.
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Now that is odd!
Not too sure what to suggest as there doesn't appear to be anything glaringly obvious.
When you sync at a higher speed again, can you get some stats from that?
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Now that is odd!
Not too sure what to suggest as there doesn't appear to be anything glaringly obvious.
When you sync at a higher speed again, can you get some stats from that?
I'll try but they haven't managed to get anywhere near that speed since.
Having said that, since then, all they have done is frantically dig up various joints and repair them, with no real improvement and not bothered to go back to the cabinet and do what the 'successful' engineer did.
I mentioned to the last engineer, that there was a chamber at the corner of our road, that hasn't had the cover off for years, but he didn't bother even lifting it to check to see what the condition of it was internally.
It may be empty but still.
I must admit, when i thought we were all sorted, i didn't bother getting any stats as i wrongly assumed that was the end of it and was all sorted!
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I think that would be the way forward so that we have something to compare to.
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Random disconnections, speed drops etc.
How often do the random disconnections occur? How many typically per day? How many typically per week?
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Disconnections are normally every couple of days or so, mostly overnight.
Even the engineers have suggested that as everything else had apparently been sorted (line erros, HR joints), a lift and shift was the last thing to do to eliminate that.
And despite it being on their job notes to perform the task, each time it has not done it.
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Are you monitoring the line? Graphs of SNRM CRCs etc surrounding these disconnects might provide some insight.
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Is that only the one disconnection every couple of days? If so I wouldn't have thought that would be considered a fault.
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No i agree, but then things like this happen, like this morning..
https://thumbsnap.com/hokjeVoH
https://thumbsnap.com/tUtPFtHG?src=tsr
https://thumbsnap.com/7lAzKKCg?src=tsr
https://thumbsnap.com/9X4bjDet?src=tsr
Average error rates by day
23 Mar 2019
CRC errors per hour: 8.26 Down, 0 Up
FEC errors per hour: 0 Down, 0.15 Up
HEC errors per hour: 1.62 Down, 0 Up
ES per hour: 5.16 Down, 0 Up
SES per hour: 0 Down, 0 Up
22 Mar 2019
CRC errors per hour: 29.9 Down, 0 Up
FEC errors per hour: 0 Down, 0.29 Up
HEC errors per hour: 16.0 Down, 0 Up
ES per hour: 7.83 Down, 0 Up
SES per hour: 0 Down, 0 Up
21 Mar 2019
CRC errors per hour: 12.4 Down, 0 Up
FEC errors per hour: 0 Down, 0.11 Up
HEC errors per hour: 14.6 Down, 0 Up
ES per hour: 8.91 Down, 0 Up
SES per hour: 0 Down, 0 Up
VDSL Counters
Downstream Upstream
Since Link time = 4 min 55 sec
FEC: 1 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 10 min 16 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 40 min 16 sec
FEC: 1 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 145 0
SES: 10 0
UAS: 38 28
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 7 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 203 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Total time = 1 days 19 hours 40 min 16 sec
FEC: 1 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 672 1
SES: 10 0
UAS: 67 57
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 7 0
LOM: 0 0
====================================================================================
This is the third time it's dropped this low since problems began.
After several visits, joints and faults have (apparently) been cleared so the line is clean.
Which, surely leads to a faulty port? The last couple of times it's happened, it's only been like this for 24 hours, and then resyncs back.
Even the stats don't warrant DLM action in my non expert opinion.
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Couldn't you simply command your modem to resync (or reboot it) and restore the speed right now?
So that's the third time it's dropped this low in what, three months?
Couldn't it be due to some short burst of noise from something external that will be difficult to track down and wouldn't even be Openreach's responsibility to do anything about?
Have you considered the possibility that the reason you're having such great difficulty getting this fixed is because there's nothing that anyone would consider an actual problem? Rather than the usual reasoning that it's not getting fixed because every single person at Openreach is lazy incompetent useless etc.?
Edit: I missed that the stats look rate capped.
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Just in case you struggle to read properly...
Openreach and even the engineers themselves have admitted there is a problem.
And each one, i have had to explain form the start what has been done before - not one of them had any previous notes from previous visits.
One would assume that with the amount of technology they use, a simple update to the engineer tasked with job would be easy to do.
Just for you here is what has happened so far.
First engineer, didn't even test the socket, said he was going back to the cabinet to reset - nothing happened
next - asked why faceplate wasn't changed - did a joint in chamber - marginal improvement
Next - replaced other joints - mild improvement
Next - traced a fault in a chamber - repaired.
Next - went to perform L&S, didn't do it.
Next - specifically tasked with L&S - also confirmed last L&S wasn't done - was at the cabinet for around three hours - told me lift and shift was done - resync back at 65. Ran fine for the day with no errors. - next morning resyned back down again.
Next engineer turned up - confirmed lift and shift wasn't done as they thought they had sorted the fault without doing it.
Next - tested - confirmed bad joint in pavement - applied for dig.
Engineer came with dig team - repaired joint - still the same.
Next - confirmed problem with cable from there to my house - put in for a new cable to be installed.
Next - come to measure up and mark out - he said not convinced - found fault half way between first repair and the chamber - order previous joint to be dug up - to test between my house and the chamber each way.
Next dig team arrived and opened up hole again - engineer didnt show.
Next - new dig team arrived to fill hole - told them nothing had been done - another engineer turned up and repaired cable from hole - chamber - also found previous engineer had performed a bad repair and was losing sync before he even disconnected it.
Next - came to do L&S - looked at the BRAG - confirmed there was a problem and was going to start at the cabinet and work back to my house from there. - Line went down for 20 mins. - four/five hours later had to go to work - pulled out and saw him parked at end of road. went back in drive to park up and chat to him about how it was going - he had disappeared.
Same one came back - looked sheepish - had his head down chamber - was performing 'advanced testing' - left - still the same.
Engineer due yesterday - didn't turn up.
Confirmed engineer for this morning.
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No i agree, but then things like this happen, like this morning..
Sorry if you have mentioned elsewhere, but do you have vectoring? I do, and with modems with this chipset get resyns without a router reboot at less than half speed. A modified firmware can fix it.
Just in case you struggle to read properly...
I understand these things are frustrating, but no need to be rude. From a person just coming to this thread you seem to be quite angry for someone who is getting a significant amount of work done by openreach to hunt down a fault. I have 26 down and 1.2 up... 1200kbps, I dream of being able to get openreach to start digging holes to fix it.
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Sorry if you have mentioned elsewhere, but do you have vectoring? I do, and with modems with this chipset get resyns without a router reboot at less than half speed. A modified firmware can fix it.
I understand these things are frustrating, but no need to be rude. From a person just coming to this thread you seem to be quite angry for someone who is getting a significant amount of work done by openreach to hunt down a fault. I have 26 down and 1.2 up... 1200kbps, I dream of being able to get openreach to start digging holes to fix it.
At the moment i am running a Zyxel 1312 B10A purely to use DSL stats for monitoring according to the stats its says G.Vector: disabled.
As i have said, my ISP, OR & BTW have said there is a problem.
If i was making things up, all of them would have shut this down a long time ago.
And the previous poster is known for getting upset when anyone has a problem or says anything bad about OR.
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That's not necessarily a faulty port.
That's either DLM banding or a manually applied cap.
The SNRM is way up and the sync is exactly 25Mb.
Upstream looks the same.
The line has High interleaving on the downstream and interleaving on the upstream.
As i have said, my ISP, OR & BTW have said there is a problem.
No idea what sync on FTTC has to do with BTw.
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That's not necessarily a faulty port.
That's either DLM banding or a manually applied cap.
The SNRM is way up and the sync is exactly 25Mb.
Upstream looks the same.
The line has High interleaving on the downstream and interleaving on the upstream.
No idea what sync on FTTC has to do with BTw.
Only what I have been told.
BTW supply the service and appointments are booked through them as far as I was aware.
As I said, I don’t know why dlm has intervened as the last couple of days it has been stable ish
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all of them would have shut this down a long time ago.
Plusnet did try to at one point.
https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Can-someone-check-my-stats-please/m-p/1604988#M88461
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Indeed.
Just as well they didn’t.
:D
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I'm still not convinced there was much of a problem right at the start, but later, after Openreach had done various stuff, I think there was at least one time when the total so far of whatever had been done had made things worse (unless all the stuff Openreach did was irrelevant to the issue and the issue got worse on its own). I'm not sure it would be in quite this mess had things been left well alone at the start.
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Last engineer ran a temporary cable from the chamber (getting around 70) to my house to eliminate the cable in the ground.
Measured at the other end of the temp cable by the house and got around 68.
As he measured up to get the cable replaced, checked his meter again and after 10 mins speed had dropped to just under 60.
Went to cabinet, checked there all ok.
Transpires, some joints were not checked back to the cabinet so is coming back Monday to redo these.
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Well it now seems to be all sorted.
Engineer did a lift and shift, reset dlm and sync back to 69.
Still getting a reasonable amount of errors but not enough to worry dlm.
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Surprised they done all what they have done for the sake of 8Mbps (assuming that was the low going from your stats on page 1)
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It wasn’t just that.
I Was getting random disconnections and speeds dropping to under 50 regularly.
Initially thought it was the old Openreach modem but was still happening after that was replaced.
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Hopefully it is resolved now ;D