Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: Alex Atkin UK on March 14, 2019, 07:50:41 PM

Title: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 14, 2019, 07:50:41 PM
Just thought I would leave this here.

Quote
We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: £12,000.00 ex VAT   

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 18

Please note that this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.

Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 1000 - 1499m. The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.

The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build. Customers at these premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs.

I'm now wondering where on the earth the node is, cabinet is about 200-250m away.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 14, 2019, 09:01:18 PM
How do you go about getting a quote?
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: re0 on March 15, 2019, 12:32:16 AM
Just thought I would leave this here.

I'm now wondering where on the earth the node is, cabinet is about 200-250m away.
The node is somewhere...  ;D But it can be much, much further away than your cabinet is. Funnily enough, distance and cost don't seem to correlate that well. My estimate I had was a bit more than yours, but there was no mention of distance on mine (in hindsight, I should have asked to satisfy any future curiosity).

How do you go about getting a quote?
I do not know who Alex used to get a quote, but there are three that I know of:
I have a feeling that FluidOne is or was for businesses only. Not sure anymore.

Bear in mind, the estimated build cost really is just an estimate that feels like it has been picked out of a hat sometimes. In order to get an accurate figure, you need to pay what I believe to be £250 exc. VAT for a survey (unless you choose to go ahead, then the survey charge will be deducted from the Excess Construction Charges).

I believe the information I have provided to be correct, unless something has changed since I last checked FTTPoD.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 15, 2019, 06:41:19 AM
I've requested a quote from Cerberus so we will see what happens with that.
@Alex, There is a thread (Possibly not on here) that has a list of estimates vs desktop quotes. The vast majority of these quotes come in a lot lower than the estimate but as Reo states will cost £250+ to go to the desktop quote.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 15, 2019, 10:14:08 AM
It is here http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4612934-fttpod-desktop-quotes-and-final-prices-part-3.html

Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 15, 2019, 11:08:38 AM
That's the one.
Thanks Ronski for linking it.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 15, 2019, 12:45:18 PM
I spoke with Rob at Amvia earlier who was a very helpful person.
He talked about the desktop quotes which progresses to desktop then on with the monthly costs.
I didn't realise that once it was installed you also had to pay approx £150 per month for service for the first year then you are free to go down to FTTP native prices.
I told him not to continue after this was explained as I didn't want to waste his time further for the sake of it.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Bowdon on March 15, 2019, 12:56:37 PM
I'll add my desktop quote I got back in early February as a comparison. I'm waiting for the full survey to be done.

Quote
We have now received the estimate of the charges from BT. These are detailed below.

Estimated Build Cost: £11,800.00 ex VAT   

The build charge includes the estimate for the work and materials required to deliver the service. It also includes the connection charge.

Number of premises passed for FTTP: 18

Please note that this is an estimated price based on network records. Openreach are not always able to provide an estimate in this way and a full survey may be required. Installation charges are only confirmed by a full survey once you place an order for the service.

Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 400 - 599m. The distance to the aggregation node will have an effect on the installation price.

The build estimate includes a reduction for the number of premises passed as these would be able to obtain FTTP as a consequence of your build. Customers at these premises may submit a linked FTTPoD order to share the construction costs.

It's interesting the price is around the same but they are estimating the node is 400 - 599m away from me, which is about the distance to my cabinet.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 15, 2019, 01:05:49 PM
There must be a fair amount of enquiries for FTTP as Amvia said I was the 8th requesting a quote from them in the space of a couple of hours.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Bowdon on March 15, 2019, 03:20:28 PM
There must be a fair amount of enquiries for FTTP as Amvia said I was the 8th requesting a quote from them in the space of a couple of hours.

I think at the moment OR are only carrying out 20 orders across all ISP's per month.

In April its expected to increase to 100 orders across all ISP's per month.

I think OR under estimated how many people want FTTP and how much they are willing to pay for it.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 15, 2019, 03:30:03 PM
Yes, I seem to recall reading something along the lines of only so many lines across all ISP's.
I agree, If it were cheaper, I think there would be a huge interest for people funding the install themselves.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on March 16, 2019, 09:16:12 PM
I'll add my desktop quote I got back in early February as a comparison. I'm waiting for the full survey to be done.

It's interesting the price is around the same but they are estimating the node is 400 - 599m away from me, which is about the distance to my cabinet.

I have a rough idea of where the ducting is, short of blocked ducts there should be very little if any digging required.  My house is fed from a pole which also should make things easier I believe.

I wont be going ahead of course, its unlikely to be worth it even if the node was literally outside my house.  Could have 3-4 VDSL lines for the monthly cost of FTTPoD alone.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 25, 2019, 05:19:52 PM
I just got an email for my estimate which comes in at £26,000 ex VAT.
Number of premises passed is 8.
Aggregation node is 400-599M which is similar to the distance Zen said my copper run was from the cab at 501m.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 25, 2019, 08:02:52 PM
Ouch  :o Are you going to get a full survey on the off chance the estimate is widely out?
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 25, 2019, 08:11:08 PM
Na, I think I'll pass. I wouldn't go ahead with it anyway. Would rather just chuck the £250+ at some new computer components.
I'm happy with what I have, it was more of a curiosity thing for me.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 25, 2019, 10:05:07 PM
I don't blame you, I've often wondered how much it would cost for us, but likewise its not worth it gven what we have.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 25, 2019, 10:14:53 PM
Are you connected by virgin? (noticed your speeds in your signature)
There is a lot of going on with Vodafone in Aberdeen which is their first roll out with cityfibre but I don't think they will come out as far as where I live. Basically in the city boundaries of Aberdeenshire.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 26, 2019, 06:14:03 AM
Yes we're with Virgin on their top package just to get decent upload speeds. It's much more expensive than VDSL but although only being 450 meters from the cab we got around 47 & 6mbps so as soon as Virgins fibre went live we took it.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 26, 2019, 09:19:12 AM
I can see why you did.
450m isn't that much. Is there aluminium on the line?
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 26, 2019, 10:19:40 AM
An engineer measured the distance from the records, but unfortunately as he wasn't local he could not access the make up of the line, but we highly suspect there is aluminum in there. Add to that it was an ECI cabinet although it does now have a Huawei twin, so I may get better speeds from that, but it's actually a bit further away due to where they installed it.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: michty_me on March 26, 2019, 07:32:57 PM
Sounds like everything was against your BT line. I'm not surprised you jumped to Virgin. Out of interest, how do you find it compared to BT (Not including raw speed)? Things like ping, reliability etc?
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 27, 2019, 06:16:43 AM
Apart from the speed fluctuations VDSL that was very reliable. Roughly half the year I was interleaved, other half was on fast path.

Never had a problem with Virgin, going by my TBB ping monitor the ping is about the same as when I was interleaved on VDSL.

General browsing is no different, but downloads and uploads are notably quicker. Our area is brand new full fibre to the house.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Chunkers on March 27, 2019, 10:03:47 AM
I also made some enquiries into FTTPoD last year after the "price cuts" but after reading accounts online quickly realised its not a realistic proposition, it does not scale well with multiple VDSL lines either imho.  Instead I got two phone lines on FTTC so I get around 130 Mb down and 40 Mb up for around £80/month.

If the install costs came down to less than a grand and the rental was less than £80/month then maybe, plus the information on Openreach website (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=0WyIM7tTGGgucFf0dXUIWK4XSAplAmgrRZNg5Pk%2B5%2F%2BkRgB7BL4KNYn%2FlKx2YB4Qe6YShZ82RgLOGLsH2e9%2Bmw%3D%3D) seems weirdly unrelated to reality and is super-misleading - clearly not intended for Joe Normal like me.  Some of the actual install quotes I have seen online that people have received are huge, £10k plus but the actual install costs are much often lower.

I think the ISP's and suppliers are deliberately holding us back because they are making lots of money selling us an inferior service, I think having domestic customers bandwidth constrained by their phone lines suits the industry as it takes all the pressure off their infrastructure

Grumpy signing off

C
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Ronski on March 27, 2019, 10:14:41 AM
plus the information on Openreach website (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=0WyIM7tTGGgucFf0dXUIWK4XSAplAmgrRZNg5Pk%2B5%2F%2BkRgB7BL4KNYn%2FlKx2YB4Qe6YShZ82RgLOGLsH2e9%2Bmw%3D%3D) seems weirdly unrelated to reality and is super-misleading - clearly not intended for Joe Normal like me.

It's weirdly unrelated to reality because those are the rates ISPs are charged, they then add their costs and profit on top.
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Chunkers on March 27, 2019, 10:38:26 AM
It's weirdly unrelated to reality because those are the rates ISPs are charged, they then add their costs and profit on top.
Aha! that makes sense

C
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: psychopomp1 on March 30, 2019, 10:03:00 AM
Instead I got two phone lines on FTTC so I get around 130 Mb down and 40 Mb up for around £80/month.

But for someone who's willing to pay the installation costs of FTTPoD, the 330/30 FTTPoD service is only £100 or so per month. So for an extra £20 pm you're getting more than double the download speed :)
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: Chunkers on March 31, 2019, 09:13:51 PM
Sure, I think if / once the installation costs come down in a few years it will make a lot of sense, and to some people who are happy to pay up front then I am sure its great!

Its just a tiny bit out of my reach right now :)
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: aesmith on April 07, 2019, 04:52:02 PM
I just got an email for my estimate which comes in at £26,000 ex VAT.
I requested a quote more for interest that as an actual prospect.  Effectively no bid "Estimated Build Cost: Unable to offer an estimate using desk survey tools. Onsite survey required to confirm charges" and Openreach estimate that the distance to the fibre aggregation node serving your premises is 3000 - 4999m."
Title: Re: FTTPoD Quote
Post by: j0hn on April 07, 2019, 05:12:59 PM
They originally quoted £39k for properties like yours.
Now they just don't give a quote at all.

With the Agg Node being so far away (3-5km) then any final build cost would likely be huge.