Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: spaace on March 05, 2019, 03:49:19 PM
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Hi, sorry for the stupid questions but i seem to have been stuck at around 25mbps on a second line i have had installed at my house.
the other line via sky syncs around 65mb. this one is on an entirely different wire (they had to install a new socket in the house and dig my drive up and connect this line where it comes from the pavement as my backup pair in the main line was faulty). there was a week or so delay in them putting the line in/doing the exchange work and actually digging and physically connecting the line - if that would have an impact?
is anyone able to advise from the stats attached what my line should theoretically be capable of? and is it in any close danger to having interleaving applied? pings times are more important to me that max speed (although both would be nice!)
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Can you go to https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/ and share the results of what it says for your second line?
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sure, thanks for the reply. info below
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Assuming your modem is plugged into the master socket and there is no extension wiring, I would say your new line has a fault or was installed incorrectly.
It would be worth putting a telephone on it to see if you can hear any noise - if so raise a voice fault. If not, contact your ISP as the line is performing well under expectations (the hardback threshold).
Of course, the lower the sync speed, the less chance of interleaving.. but it's really performing badly.
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thanks. yes it is in the master socket (Master Socket 5C) with a filter attached. i have plugged a phone in and called 17070 option 2 (quiet line test) and hear nothing. i should have mentioned the line was provisioned to 40/10 speed rather than 80/20 - if that makes a difference at all?
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According to the DSLChecker your line should be getting the full 40/10 quite easily which means I think getting interleaving at those speeds is unlikely.
You might want to unclip the cover of the 5C and try the test socket just to confirm its not a faulty filter but I would speak to your ISP to raise a slow speed fault.
If you are with BT Retail, I would suggest asking for a "Boost" visit - I am not sure other ISPs actively offer this - but I suspect you need an engineer to come out and inspect the install.
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According to the DSLChecker your line should be getting the full 40/10 quite easily which means I think getting interleaving at those speeds is unlikely.
You might want to unclip the cover of the 5C and try the test socket just to confirm its not a faulty filter but I would speak to your ISP to raise a slow speed fault.
If you are with BT Retail, I would suggest asking for a "Boost" visit - I am not sure other ISPs actively offer this - but I suspect you need an engineer to come out and inspect the install.
thanks, have sent the stats/bt links to my ISP. Will see what they come back with. i have tried a different filter on the rj11 cable, no difference. I took the cover of the 5C - couldnt see any rj11 type port in there, just the port where the faceplate plugs in which doesnt look to be either a phone socket or rj11! thanks
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The bottom of page 2 at https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/helpandsupport/how-toguides/howtoguides/downloads/NTE5C_Instructions_CP.pdf shows the test socket which you can plug the modem lead directly into.
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Hi
There are 2 different types of rj11, square and flat
I think he has the square so would need to either use filter or change dsl cable to flat plug type
Many thanks
John
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I have hesitated to intrude with what may seem stupidity. My town has a mixture of ages of its housing stock, most prior to the early seventies, when ali seemed to be used. Most of my estate is pre-70s, but my house is part of the estate built in the ali reign, so materials are probably different.
Can OP be confident that both lines are of like construction and follow same route from the same DSLAM?
I'm not sure that the checker covers oddities or differences arising from being on ECI or Huawai equipment either.
In short is OP victim of weird chance?
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I have hesitated to intrude with what may seem stupidity. My town has a mixture of ages of its housing stock, most prior to the early seventies, when ali seemed to be used. Most of my estate is pre-70s, but my house is part of the estate built in the ali reign, so materials are probably different.
Can OP be confident that both lines are of like construction and follow same route from the same DSLAM?
I'm not sure that the checker covers oddities or differences arising from being on ECI or Huawai equipment either.
In short is OP victim of weird chance?
I am 99% certain they follow the same route to the same DSLAM. They are underground not via a pole. The new connection was put in new ducting from house>pavement (as my second pair was faulty) but connected to the "main" pipe that runs under the pavement, same as my main/sky connection as i had a look when he was connecting them up.. I live in a Cul De Sac so the "mains" comes up one side of it, loops round at the end and comes back down the other, basically following the pavement - if that makes sense? find it hard to believe there is any other possible route to the DSLAM (which is about 200 paces away, following the pavement to it which i assume is the way the cables run). luckily if there is a fault, when they dug up the pavement they put it in a chamber with a man hole cover, rather than just filling it back in and tar maccing the pavement like it was before. PS i live in a small ish village rather than a town, so i think the routes are all pretty basic, we have 5 (Huawei) cabinets in the village.
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reply from my isp
I have had a response regarding your sync speed issues on the new line. This has been submitted for a DLM reset as it is below expected levels. Please allow 24 - 48 hours and then retest. I should know more within this period so will inform you when I am updated also.
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Funny things can happen though. one side of my cul-de-sac, quite by chance gets 10 Mb/sec more than my side, because even though the route from the cabinent is the same over 90% or more of its path is identical, the last 10% is not.
I understand your redacting your phone number, but it would have been interesting to know the exchange. :)
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reply from my isp
I have had a response regarding your sync speed issues on the new line. This has been submitted for a DLM reset as it is below expected levels. Please allow 24 - 48 hours and then retest. I should know more within this period so will inform you when I am updated also.
It will be interesting to see what happens - though your line stats don't show it as having spare SNR - so not sure a DLM reset will help at this stage
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Funny things can happen though. one side of my cul-de-sac, quite by chance gets 10 Mb/sec more than my side, because even though the route from the cabinent is the same over 90% or more of its path is identical, the last 10% is not.
I understand your redacting your phone number, but it would have been interesting to know the exchange. :)
CLI is 01162xxxxxxx :)
there are numerous cul-de-sacs here, i beleive it loops down, around and back up, up to the next etc all the way. Luckily i am on the cabinet side of second cul-de-sac so could be worse
[Moderator edited to redact the subscriber part of the telephone number.]
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not sure if at all relevant but this is my sky router stats. goes into the same big cable in the pavement. the only difference is how it gets to the pavement (new line is in a new duct, the sky one is the original underground one that appears from my garage floor). almost certain both lines follow the same path to the same cab (as it is sky the dslchecker does not work)
how do you read sky stats when there are 3 of them?
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CLI is 0116****** :)
there are numerous cul-de-sacs here, i beleive it loops down, around and back up, up to the next etc all the way. Luckily i am on the cabinet side of second cul-de-sac so could be worse
I would suggest editing your phone number, as forum is publically viewable and you may well end up some spam/scam list.
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I would suggest editing your phone number, as forum is publically viewable and you may well end up some spam/scam list.
One push of a paw on the right button and the deed is done. ;)
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One push of a paw on the right button and the deed is done. ;)
thanks :) it is a data only line but understand
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I see FTTC is by BDUK. Where is cab 4 located, do you know?
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That downstream sync rate then is miles below the 49 Mbps hand-back threshold listed so the ISP really has to fix it. So give the ISP some stick - pointing out that you are aware of this.
If you should find that you are getting any trouble with the ISP and it’s all becoming a hassle, then remember that there are good ISPs out there, including aa.net.uk, who will fix your line or your money back (https://aaisp.net.uk/broadband-trial.html). Don’t expect it will come to that.
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I see FTTC is by BDUK. Where is cab 4 located, do you know?
Yep i know where cab4 is, do you need to know? (if you were looking at a map it is where Saddington Road meets Western Avenue on the corner)
what is BDUK?
That downstream sync rate then is miles below the 49 Mbps hand-back threshold listed so the ISP really has to fix it. So give the ISP some stick - pointing out that you are aware of this.
If you should find that you are getting any trouble with the ISP and it’s all becoming a hassle, then remember that there are good ISPs out there, including aa.net.uk, who will fix your line or your money back (https://aaisp.net.uk/broadband-trial.html). Don’t expect it will come to that.
thanks, i am aware of other providers just this one is costing me nothing so would like to give it a good chance to get up to speed!
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Thanks, I had been looking, based om what CodeLook suggested, but that is not always accurate, and Google Streetview for your village is not that recent.
I had no ulterior motive. For BDUK see here (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/broadband-delivery-uk).
Your cab seems very well provided with 80Mb/sec connections, and the locality with FTTP too.
Hope you get it sorted soon. :fingers: :)
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Thanks, I had been looking, based om what CodeLook suggested, but that is not always accurate, and Google Streetview for your village is not that recent.
I had no ulterior motive. For BDUK see here (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/broadband-delivery-uk).
Your cab seems very well provided with 80Mb/sec connections, and the locality with FTTP too.
Hope you get it sorted soon. :fingers: :)
thanks for taking the time to look.
presumably with FTTP available at the cab, if i ever wanted that i would need to pay for the installation from cab to house? Fortunately OR engineer said as i needed the digging/ducting work done for this second line install, if/when fibre ever came down my road i could just have it chucked up the duct immediately
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No doubt others will advise how FTTP is deployed, and why BT elects to install it in chosen locations.
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assume the DLM reset just happened, line went down, resynced at 22mb with interleaving on (from past experience interleaving is applied on a reset - it usually turns off around 6am the following day)
informed ISP, hopefully they will send somebody out as it looks like you were right and there is a fault somewhere :(
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presumably with FTTP available at the cab, if i ever wanted that i would need to pay for the installation from cab to house? Fortunately OR engineer said as i needed the digging/ducting work done for this second line install, if/when fibre ever came down my road i could just have it chucked up the duct immediately
FTTP on Demand isn't supplied from cabs - it comes from the nearest fibre aggregation node (they each serve 3-5 FTTC cabinets). However, the fact that you've got ducting in place should help reduce the costs if you wanted to pay for FTTP.
assume the DLM reset just happened, line went down, resynced at 22mb with interleaving on (from past experience interleaving is applied on a reset - it usually turns off around 6am the following day)
informed ISP, hopefully they will send somebody out as it looks like you were right and there is a fault somewhere
Yes, I didn't think it would help. Who is the ISP out of interest?
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FTTP would be wonderful. The costs might be terrifying and the annoying thing, in some cases, is that by waiting one would be able to get it free, but wait how long?
It might be interesting to at least ask about the cost.
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FTTP on Demand isn't supplied from cabs - it comes from the nearest fibre aggregation node (they each serve 3-5 FTTC cabinets). However, the fact that you've got ducting in place should help reduce the costs if you wanted to pay for FTTP.
Yes, I didn't think it would help. Who is the ISP out of interest?
thanks!
ISP is a company called Voicehost, we use them for VOIP solutions/leased lines/FTTC on some other sites, typically this is the first one i have had problems with (guess it is better to have problems at my own home than at a clients workplace)
Could you point me in the direction of what you read to see there is a fault? guessing something to do with the SNR margin the draytek displays? this morning i plugged the router into my sky line, just to see the difference. it is attached below.
FTTP would be wonderful. The costs might be terrifying and the annoying thing, in some cases, is that by waiting one would be able to get it free, but wait how long?
It might be interesting to at least ask about the cost.
i was reading into it and i work/run my business from home so may get some sort of voucher towards it from the government. I live in a remote village though so i can't imagine much infrastructure being in place so it being very costly (also unlikely to come here for free within many years).
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Exactly the same here then but zero FTTP. I fear there could be some sort of a catch with government vouchers, there usually is something restrictive with govt handouts to make them an unpleasant or infeasible option so that few will be able to go for it.
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Could you point me in the direction of what you read to see there is a fault? guessing something to do with the SNR margin the draytek displays? this morning i plugged the router into my sky line, just to see the difference. it is attached below.
The speed on your second line is much lower than the handback threshold stated on the DSLChecker. This could indicate a line problem, poor Openreach records or poor internal wiring. You confirmed that there is no extension wiring thus ruling that out and its unlikely to be poor OR records especially as you have another line performing much better from the same cabinet.
You have a Huawei FTTC DSLAM. These initially target a SNR of 6 both upstream and downstream to ensure a stable connection (the downstream SNR might then reduce to as low as 3 as is the case with your Sky line)
The maximum attainable speeds estimated by your modem on the 2nd line are close to your sync speed and showing a SNR of 6 - hence showing its doing as much as it can given the current line. If DLM had artificially reduced your sync speed to ensure a stable connection than your SNR figures would be higher - this is not the case - hence not thinking a DLM reset would help.
As such, its likely to be a wiring issue/line fault of some kind - especially as its a new installation. It could be you're just unlucky re: the quality of the new line but the fact its maximum sync speed is far below OR's expectations gives you leverage to get the ISP to get an engineer to investigate.
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Openreach just been, said he can see a small fault on the line but it is unlikely to be causing the slow sync speed. He is going to fix that now and come back.
he said as i had a new line put in, it may just be an unlucky case of a bad wire that is left over in the pavement as most of them (if not all) are in use across the estate so they used whatever they could to get the new line in.
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It sounds like it has a bad fault, or it takes a considerably longer route to the cabinet.
Ask him to try another pair? or a port swap?
Your absolute minimum guaranteed rate is 50Mb but it should really be getting between 60-80Mb.
I wouldn't be accepting kind of fob off about being unlucky with damaged wires under pavements.
Stop making excuses and fix my connection!
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he does seem the fob off type... at first he said it was because i was only provisioned 40/10 and 26ish is about right for that. he didnt have an answer when i said my sky synced at 39999/9999 when it was 40/10.
almost certain it takes the same route to the cabinet as my sky line, goes into the same shielded cable at the end of my drive in the ground. it is a small ish village so would imagine there is mostly only a single route these things take.
(the reason i am on 40/10 is i really don't want interleaving, so was going to see how stable/error prone it was before upping to 80/20).
with the kickback threshold, is that where i can keep demanding they fix until that speed is achieved or i have the right to cancel because it is not achieved?
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Yes you can, but often they refuse and simply let you leave without charge, which they must do if they can't reach the handback.
You could then try another ISP who will be willing to insist OpenReach try correct this.
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to be fair to the guy he went away for a few hours and has come back and has said almost all the cables are in use that run around under the pavement but he is trying to find the best pair of ones not in use. is currently out there now in the wind/rain so keeping him stocked with biscuits and coffee to keep him on side!
he said the issue he can detect is somewhere between me and the local cabinet, hopefully he can find another pair!
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He has connected my on a different spare wire he has found in the pavement, results below.
still not as fast as the Sky one (obviously on a 40/10 provision but the attainable rate is lower?)
are those stats ok?
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A considerable improvement.
I find it a little worrying that he didn't reset the DLM after doing so many tests which I would assume involves multiple resyncs on the line.
Retx is applied so the max attainable would only increase if you upgraded to 80/20 and DLM lowered the SNRM target.
That should hopefully see the line achieve around 67Mb (maybe a Mb or 2 either side of that).
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i thought that about the DLM reset, it usually goes to interleave for 48 hours after a reset? Still on fast so can't have done it. my router hasnt been plugged in all day, we unplugged it when he arrived to do his testing and he has not plugged it back in until he was finished/asked to test it. will ensure not to turn the router off to trigger anything!
oh that is nice to know about the attainable going up, i get 69mb on the sky line downstairs so by your calculations they would be almost identical (and presume optimal for my location?)
thanks for your input, much appreciated.
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got my line regraded to 80/20 today after the 40/10 seemed rock solid and no errors, noticed a lot of FECS errors since the regrade, is this something to do with interleaving being reapplied? (seems to be applied for 48hours or so after an upgrade). are they anything to worry about? they seem to be creeping up constantly. key for me is fastpath!
guess the speed will creep up from 48mb over the coming days
stats attached.