Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => Apple Related => Topic started by: tickmike on February 20, 2019, 02:52:22 PM
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When you are away from your own ISP WiFi connection and its SMTP server what (Edit) Free SMTP Email Server do you use for iPhone or iPad ? say when on holiday or working away . :-\
1.. Say you had a WiFi connection only.
2..You had No WiFi could you use 'Data' if there was a signal.
3 .. You had both available .
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As long as your ISP uses authentication, which I suspect most if not all do, you still use their SMTP server. You don't need to be connected to the ISP to use it.
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But most ISP's block there SMTP server away from your address to stop it be used for 'Spam' by others.
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I had this issue years ago so simply used Gmail to send and set the appropriate email return address. Since using a proper hosted email service its not an issue.
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Try port 587 instead of port 25!
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But most ISP's block there SMTP server away from your address to stop it be used for 'Spam' by others.
No they don't, that's why they use authentication. How do you think people use their mobiles for email?
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Try port 587 instead of port 25!
Port doesn't usually matter, that is just for encryption or not, it is authentication that matters, i.e you have to log in with username (email address) and password.
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What licquorice said. And if you do get problems with your isp then there are separate mail providers that you can use. I used to use ukservers until unfortunately they were sold and got swallowed up last by someone else year. Consult your isp about the problem of access to smtp when off their network.
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In fact, andrews and Arnold do email services and if you are stuck you could ask them about buying an email service from them.
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@licquorice
Port 587 is nothing to do with encryption (it can be used with or without). 587 is the mail submission port which should be used for sending (submitting) mail. Port 25 is the mail relay port primarily intended for passing mail between mail servers. I've not come across a mail server that doesn't handle port 587.
Many places (e.g. mobile networks or hotel WiFi) block port 25 and say you must use their server but do not block port 587.
There's no reason not to configure your mail client to use 587 all the time.
You are correct in saying authentication matters. No properly configured ISP server will accept mail (port 25 or 587) from outside the ISP's network without authentication (if it did it would quickly be blacklisted as being an open relay). I've not come across a server that didn't support authentication when connected internally even if not needed, so again that should be your default configuration.
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Good idea to avoid port 25 because some evil networks redirect it to their servers, and that means you will be revealing your password to people that you don’t trust. I personally caught one isp doing this and complained bitterly to them about it.
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@jelv Yes, I was thinking of port 465 which is encrypted.
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@Mike,
As others are saying, most ISPs do allow remote access via mobile data etc, it’s just a case of configuring it cortectly. It seems unlikely that an ISP would restrict email to their own network; In this age of mobile devices, they’d lose too many customers.
If you care to name your ISP, and the mobile device you want to use (iOS I assume?), more specific advice might be forthcoming, :)
@Ronski...
I had this issue years ago so simply used Gmail to send and set the appropriate email return address. Since using a proper hosted email service its not an issue.
... I used to do likewise, in days of old. But I’d not recommend it these days, as mail sent with a spoofed or unexpected return address may be flagged as spam, hence might never reach the recipient, and the sender may never know it failed. Note the “mays” and “mights” meaning, in effect, “sometimes and sometimes not”. :)
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Well the last time I asked my ISP Eclipse (Business) they said it would not work away from home but I have not tried it recently.
mail.eclipse.co.uk port 110 for receiving mail.
smtp.eclipse.co.uk port 25 for sending it.
My self, My wife and our Daughter use iPhones we are all on EE (but they do not have any SMTP servers.)
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Hmm, I am failing to find anything obvious. Eclipse seem to be pitched as primarily business-oriented, I wonder if there is an assumption that users will have their own domain for mail?
That said, from KCom’s home page, following a “webmail” link on an iPad, invites me to download an iOS profile, to “configure email, contacts and calendaring”...
https://webmail.eclipse.net.uk
No idea if that is useful or even relevant, and I don’t know what would happen if you clicked the link. I do agree it is not as clear cut as I expected.
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Port 587 seems to be open on smtp.eclipse.co.uk
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Are you setting your mail clients up as IMAP rather than POP?
Thinking about it I'm sure the problems I used to experience went away long before I changed to hosted email. I used plus nets email servers from around 2003 to early last year, and when I first got a tablet had problems. It may have been when I changed to IMAP that the issue went away, sorry but can't remember the details.
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Well the last time I asked my ISP Eclipse (Business) they said it would not work away from home but I have not tried it recently.
mail.eclipse.co.uk port 110 for receiving mail.
smtp.eclipse.co.uk port 25 for sending it.
You really shouldn't be using insecure ports for email these days. Try using ports 995 for receiving POP3 (or 993 if you prefer IMAP) and 465 for SMTP both with SSL/TLS encryption ticked. You may find that those ports also require authentication and will work away from home.
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Hi
I am sorry, standard ports 25 and 110 can be insecure or secure using StartTLS (see below for standard SMTP test using port 25)
If anyone is using our platforms, you will be on haveworx.co.uk and to avoid any SSL error on email, we always advise to use mail.haveworx.co.uk for incoming/outgoing servers for all services, and leave as default ports in client software (port 465 is usually not used any longer and SMTP ports are 25 and 587 - some may still allow 465 though) We use SMTP 25 and 587 only on this platform.
If anyone is wondering why I have left/quoted full domain/IP, it is a live platform and has been scrapped many times, so no need to hide.
@tickmike, I would email your ISP support for full clarification, as most allow connections from any networks as we do and you would be advised not to use any mail relay services.
Many thanks
John
Confidence Factor for "haveworx.co.uk": 100
MX Server Pref Answer Connect HELO TLS Cert Secure From
mail.haveworx.co.uk
[5.153.90.157:25] 10 OK
(75ms) OK
(2,095ms) OK
(74ms) OK
(75ms) OK
(419ms) OK
(75ms) OK
(379ms)
Average 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Checking haveworx.co.uk:
Looking up MX hosts on domain "haveworx.co.uk"
•mail.haveworx.co.uk (preference:10)
Trying TLS on mail.haveworx.co.uk[5.153.90.157:25] (10):
seconds
test stage and result
[000.075] Connected to server
[002.170] <-- 220 ns1.haveworx.co.uk InterWorx-CP SMTP Server Ready ESMTP
[002.170] We are allowed to connect
[002.171] --> EHLO www6.testing
[002.244] <-- 250-ns1.haveworx.co.uk InterWorx-CP SMTP Server Ready
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-AUTH=LOGIN PLAIN
250-STARTTLS
250-SIZE 52428800
250-PIPELINING
250 8BITMIME
[002.245] We can use this server
[002.245] TLS is an option on this server
[002.245] --> STARTTLS
[002.320] <-- 220 ready for tls
[002.320] STARTTLS command works on this server
[002.484] Connection converted to SSL
SSLVersion in use: TLSv1_2
Cipher in use: AES256-GCM-SHA384
Certificate 1 of 3 in chain: Cert VALIDATED: ok
Cert Hostname VERIFIED (mail.haveworx.co.uk = haveworx.co.uk | DNS:ftp.haveworx.co.uk | DNS:haveworx.co.uk | DNS:mail.haveworx.co.uk | DNS:www.haveworx.co.uk)
cert not revoked by CRL
cert not revoked by OCSP
serialNumber=04:50:31:a6:d3:17:2d:54:f1:08:a5:48:db:3c:87:50:7d:7f
subject= /CN=haveworx.co.uk
issuer= /C=US/O=Let's Encrypt/CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3
Certificate 2 of 3 in chain: Cert VALIDATED: ok
cert not revoked by CRL
cert not revoked by OCSP
serialNumber=0a:01:41:42:00:00:01:53:85:73:6a:0b:85:ec:a7:08
subject= /C=US/O=Let's Encrypt/CN=Let's Encrypt Authority X3
issuer= /O=Digital Signature Trust Co./CN=DST Root CA X3
Certificate 3 of 3 in chain: Cert VALIDATED: ok
cert not revoked by CRL
cert not revoked by OCSP
serialNumber=44:af:b0:80:d6:a3:27:ba:89:30:39:86:2e:f8:40:6b
subject= /O=Digital Signature Trust Co./CN=DST Root CA X3
issuer= /O=Digital Signature Trust Co./CN=DST Root CA X3
[002.739] ~~> EHLO www6.testing
[002.814] <~~ 250-ns1.haveworx.co.uk InterWorx-CP SMTP Server Ready
250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN
250-AUTH=LOGIN PLAIN
250-SIZE 52428800
250-PIPELINING
250 8BITMIME
[002.814] TLS successfully started on this server
[002.814] ~~> MAIL FROM:<test@testing>
[003.193] <~~ 250 ok
[003.193] Sender is OK
[003.193] ~~> QUIT
[003.267] <~~ 221 ns1.haveworx.co.uk InterWorx-CP SMTP Server Ready
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Hi
I am sorry, standard ports 25 and 110 can be insecure or secure using StartTLS (see below for standard SMTP test using port 25)
Yes, can be, but not all servers support StartTLS whereas if ports 465 and 995 are accessible they will be secure as far as I'm aware.
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Hi
Yes your correct
However, for client software/servers not to support StartTLS means they would be old (years old)
However, as you correctly state, ports 465 (if still in use), 587, 993 and 995 would be set to SSL/TLS only (note SSL is still shown but should not be available and only TLS is used - this no doubt would be updated to reflect TLS only in time as software is updated)
I think I read a few years ago that mail ports were trying to just use 2 standard ports, but I do not believe that would happen
Many thanks
John
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Hi
I am not sure of this will help, but I came accross this
Many thanks
John
https://www.teamknowhow.com/kit-guide/guide-to-email-server-settings
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Are you setting your mail clients up as IMAP rather than POP?
The OP is asking about SMTP (i.e. outgoing mail). IMAP/POP3 is therefore irrelevant as that is only how mail is collected!
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Warning - while you were typing 2 new replies have been posted. You may wish to review your post.
Thanks for trying to help. :)
While waiting for the post man to come I have set up on an old spare laptop that has never had mail set up before.
ThunderBird is the email client.
setting mail.eclipse.co.uk port 995 SSL/TLS Normal password, This works ok and downloaded mail.
But.
using smtp.eclipse.co.uk port 25 works ok, port 587 SSL/TLS Normal password Does Not work (times out)
and the same with port 465 .
I have opened ports on my hardware firewall for the above.
Edit... Pop
Ok I will check out that screen shot later.
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Hi
@Tickmike - to be honest, I would not bother looking/checking the picture.
I have just tested using smtp.eclipse.co.uk and smtp.karoo.co.uk on port 25, and both confirm 554 not allowed - you can quickly test this yourself from a command prompt
telnet smtp.eclispe.co.uk 25
if a 220 response shown type
rset
quit
You should receive a 220 response whereas not been on Kcom network, our response was 554 not allowed disconnected
Interestingly, running a test on eclipse.co.uk shows the following (note no secure ports) see below
So I am thinking you are correct and it is locked to Kcom network only but sorry if I am wrong, and I would email Kcom support for full clarification
Many thanks
John
Confidence Factor for "eclipse.co.uk": 17
MX Server Pref Answer Connect HELO TLS Cert Secure From
mx1.eclipse.kcom.com
[213.249.242.206:25] 10 FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL
mx1.eclipse.kcom.com
[213.249.242.210:25] 10 OK
(81ms) OK
(83ms) OK
(82ms) FAIL FAIL FAIL OK
(329ms)
mx1.eclipse.kcom.com
[213.249.140.103:25] 10 OK
(81ms) OK
(83ms) OK
(82ms) FAIL FAIL FAIL OK
(327ms)
mx2.eclipse.kcom.com
[213.249.140.103:25] 10 OK
(81ms) OK
(82ms) OK
(82ms) FAIL FAIL FAIL OK
(327ms)
mx2.eclipse.kcom.com
[213.249.242.210:25] 10 OK
(81ms) OK
(82ms) OK
(82ms) FAIL FAIL FAIL OK
(327ms)
mx2.eclipse.kcom.com
[213.249.242.206:25] 10 FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL FAIL
Average 67% 67% 67% 0% 0% 0% 67%
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How bizarre, presumably they don't expect their customers to want to access email from their mobiles other than via webmail!
PS @tickmike There is no need to open any ports on your firewall, you are originating the connection.
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The OP is asking about SMTP (i.e. outgoing mail). IMAP/POP3 is therefore irrelevant as that is only how mail is collected!
So sorry for trying to help!
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So sorry for trying to help!
I thank you for trying to help :), I did change my incoming server from 110 to 995 ..
I have sent Eclipse an email to ask them about the subject.
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Thanks Tickmike :cool:
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I had a reply from Eclipse .
Legacy E-mail
Incoming POP3 server: mail.eclipse.co.uk Port:110
Incoming IMAP server: mail.eclipse.co.uk Port:143
Outgoing SMTP server: smtp.eclipse.co.uk Port: 25
Incoming SSL: No
Outgoing SSL: No
Login or Username: Your full ECLIPSE email address
Password: Your ECLIPSE password
Webmail: http://webmail.eclipse.net.uk
If you're using a different connection, change SMT outgoing server into what the ISP you're using has.
Not very helpful :'(
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Hi tick mike
Many thanks
Yes very helpful as they confirm that the access is locked to their network only for sending email and no security is used for encryption
Do your mobile provider have smtp servers you could use
If not, you would have a few options as follows
Change providers
Use your own domain on a hosted service
Create a dial in vpn to your home network and when using mobile, connect to vpn first, so you are using your home broadband
Use webmail
Do nothing and not be able to send email
Create a free email account and put forwarders on your current email so you then use the free account (note your email address would change to the free email account). I guess this means you then are really a new email account
Upgrade your legacy account with kcom if they have a service which allows for any connection
I hope that helps a little and sorry if I have missed any more options
Many thanks
John
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I'm guessing that forwarding isn't even an option with such a poorly specified mail system, using a Gmail account to fetch the mail wouldn't work either without authentication.
I suppose webmail is the easiest option in the short term.
Time to ditch Kcom I think.
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The best answer would be to use a hosted service, John (d2d4j) has an excellent deal for forum members. I've been using it for our family for around a year now and it's been excellent. I have my own domain name which also makes my email address a lot much more professional looking and I don't feel tied to my ISP in fear of losing our email addresses.
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Echo the advantages of getting your own domain and using a hosting service. Big advantage is it’s unaffected when you switch ISP, and manageable ( small amount of hassle) if you ever want to switch hosts. Your contacts do have the pain of a transition to new addresses but as long as you choose a domain name that suits you for rest of life, the transition is a one-off.
Although zen is currently our ISP, our domain is currently hosted by Google G Suite which is pretty good in every way, as long as you don’t need privacy. Unfortunately that’s highly expensive nowadays, I got in early when it was called Google Apps had a ‘free’ version, and we still get to use it for free.
I have never investigated the details, but have no reason to doubt that John’s service will be every bit as good, or better, than G Suite. :)
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I have never investigated the details, but have no reason to doubt that John’s service will be every bit as good, or better, than G Suite. :)
I can confirm the service and assistance from John is first class. :)
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As I put earlier EE is our family's phone network provider and they do not have SMTP servers (Just contacted them).
I have got myself an icloud.com email account (and some years ago set up a gmail.com account for my daughters laptop when she was at uni.) and can use there SMTP servers to send mail through.
Both these setups change the email header to either @icloud.com or @gmail.com
Thinking about it I do have a Domain of my own (.co.uk) (free from an Kcom/Eclipse promotion they did some time ago)
I was going to have a self catering holiday let so I have a domain for that, so the Email address associated with that would they be on a different system to my 10 free emails with my internet connection.
Edit...Thanks for all the help :thumbs:
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Hi
@tickmike - hope it all goes well and at least you now know
Thank you ronski and vic for your kind words. We do try hard
Many thanks
John
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What Ronski said.
I did indeed do just that, had my own domain name and bought email service provisions separately so that it had absolutely nothing to do with any ISP just exactly for this reason, so I would not be tied in to any particular ISP, could change ISPs, and would not have any problem of not being located in the ‘right’ network when sending email.
Now my preferred email service provider no longer exists, sort-of, because they got swallowed up by someone else. I’ve just moved email, domain registration and dns server provision to my ISP, AA.net.uk.
With AA there’s no problem with sending emails when you are in the wrong network, since you just authenticate before sending. Description is at https://aa.net.uk/domains-email.html [[btw is it just me or is there some extremely confusing English in the sentence “You can normally only send email via our email gateway if you are connected via our internet service.” - seems ambiguous ?]]
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I can confirm the service and assistance from John is first class. :)
Me too. Decided to switch my domain email from Namesco to John last night and he has been incredibly helpful. Pretty much all done now with no loss of service. Can't recommend enough.
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[[btw is it just me or is there some extremely confusing English in the sentence “You can normally only send email via our email gateway if you are connected via our internet service.” - seems ambiguous ?]]
I read that as a typical A&A written sentence and have not attempted to parse it into sensible English. After reaching the fourth word in the sentence, I gave up. Words three and four are nonsensical in their current, adjacent, placements. ::)
The sentence should begin ether as --
"You can normally send . . ."
-- or as --
"You can only send . . ."
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Programmers in my experience are not allowed to be able to write english when they speak it natively.