Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: rico_45 on February 13, 2019, 10:12:50 AM

Title: intermittent fibre
Post by: rico_45 on February 13, 2019, 10:12:50 AM
any ideas on this one fibre max no telephone issues D-side was changed also work done on the DP this will the 8th engineer out always FTTC1 as the line test always fails "upstream and downstream exceeded the threshold please continue submitting trouble report" this is on the BT network (non svbn) previous engineer found no fault nte was replaced and lead in new router but still internet goes amber then of constantly for maybe an hour or more then good for a few but then starts again several times a day not weather related going on from December asked for multi skilled engineer which they said they already sent no hives or smart meters in the home  can see the drop outs on yokon on open reach site using the OGEA number no pattern to the drop outs ....
any thoughts ?
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: snadge on February 13, 2019, 02:45:19 PM
some of the more 'experienced' members will probably reply soon, while you wait it may help if you post your router stats..? (Sync speed, Line Attenuation, SNR margin, error rates etc), also it may help if we know how your internal network is setup.

also, when the line test fails is that all it says? just similar reports I've seen usually say what has exceeded the threshold, such as "upstream and downstream ES and SES have exceeded the threshold, please continue submitting trouble report", is this an online 'line-test' for customers?, or is it what the Sky rep is reporting back to you from the line-test..?

sounds like a tricky one, if I had to guess I would say possibly an intermittent REIN/PEIN/SHINE in the home or external, or a faulty modem (I know you say 'new router' so shouldn't be). when the problem arises you could try locating possible noise sources using this information from our pages (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/rein.htm#REIN_SHINE_PEIN) on Interference.

You mention that Openreach has sent 8 engineers, we know an FFTC1 engineer has been (and very likely LL1/LL14 engineers have been out also), have they sent an SFI2 engineer? (Special Faults Investigation).
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: rico_45 on February 13, 2019, 05:11:17 PM
your correct the line test was "upstream and downstream ES and SES have exceeded the threshold, please continue submitting trouble report" this was a result from cp  we can only book FTTC1 when it fails booking an FTTC3 will reject as line not proven right when tested the nte was replaced for a 5c tried with the telephone disconnected for 24 hours but still the same no star wiring only the 1 socket  maybe wondering was it the span from the dp also no other neighbours reporting the same issue but had the same issue with talk talk even thought of reverting back to adsl to see if the cps NOC would fix cant get the router stats  just yet the router is sky 3.0 (not a power line version)  thought of  REIN/PEIN/SHINE but would this have not been picked up on jdsu exfo
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: snadge on February 13, 2019, 07:47:45 PM
shame you didnt have a router/modem with an accessible 'busy box', these are usually found in (but not limited too) modems with 'unlocked' Broadcom chipsets (unlocked meaning the ISP or Manufacturer's firmware does not deny telnet access to the modem), you get way more information about your connection and can be used to help resolve problems, the preferred modems of regular kitz users usually tend to be one of the various Zyxel models or the Huawei HG612 3B, you can run monitoring software such as DSL-stats, HG612 Graphing Scripts or RouterStats etc...very handy.

Regarding the JDSU picking up noise, when the engineer arrived for testing was the connection down then? as you say the engineer couldn't find a fault .. if the fault wasn't 'active' when the engineers testing then it probably won't pick it up no. I'm sure one of the engineers on this forum will be able to elaborate on that some more.

Is the NTE5C the only phone socket in the property? I'm guessing so otherwise you would have said. I will say that the NTE5C is carp, it's very well documented as a poor design and a few people (myself included) have had negative effects from using it. I know you had the problem before it was installed...but if it were me...I would be putting the 5A back at least until the problem is resolved, then I would be using DSL-stats with before and after readings (over time too) too see what (if any) impact it has. If I had left mine on it's quite likely that DLM would have kicked in and applied Interleaving and INP, this is because my errors went up 10 fold on the NTE5C (and that wasn't the only issue).

when you say "line not proven right" do you mean the type of fault the Line-Test is picking up won't allow for anything other than an FFTC1 visit? maybe you need to ask the Sky rep to 'over-ride' it, then they can send out any engineer

next time it happens grab an old AM/MW radio and follow the instructions below

Quote
~ Is there anything I can do to try track down & identify the source of REIN?

If you suspect there is something interfering with your broadband, get an AM/MW radio and tune it to 612KHz.

If you hold the radio next to an LCD screen for your PC as an example you would hear a distinct noise. This should fade away if you move the radio a quarter to half a meter away. Hold it by your modem/router and you'll hear the DSL signal.

If you get a distinct noise enveloping a larger area, then this may be picked up by your router causing an SNR problem (or even drop of sync). By using the radio you may be able to get an idea of where the noise is coming from. Switch the suspect appliance off & retest your DSL broadband connection. By distinct noise you're looking for a clear buzz, whistle, clicking etc. White noise or a general shhhhh noise is less likely to be the cause of the problem, same as any radio broadcast. (In the south of the UK you may hear a French radio station from around 612KHz.)

Be aware that any noise heard on the radio is not always affecting your DSL connection, and you may still have REIN issues in the area which will not be picked up @ 612Khz as REIN is often notoriously difficult to pin-point. This method can be a bit hazy so donít rely on it completely by any means.

Xmas lights are a classic cause, as are noisy electrical appliance with a long length of wire which acts as an antennae. Sometimes you can cure it with a ferrite sleeve (that small cylindrical thing you normally see along your monitor cable which doesn'tít seem to do anything) which you can get from electrical suppliers such as Maplin.
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: rico_45 on February 14, 2019, 11:28:09 AM
Thanks some good food for thought especially replacing the NTE might also ask BTOR to put the line on a munitioning Que over 24 hours to see  if they pick up anything next engineer is due tomorrow so well see if he can find anything then ill post the outcome :fingers: quick question , does fiber be set at fast path or interleaving on activation or does it adjust on DLM reset ? :baby:
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: j0hn on February 14, 2019, 11:34:30 AM
Interleaving is the default for both new provisions and DLM resets.

Fastpath is only applied if the errors are low enough.
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: snadge on February 14, 2019, 11:52:17 AM
Thanks some good food for thought especially replacing the NTE might also ask BTOR to put the line on a munitioning Que over 24 hours to see  if they pick up anything next engineer is due tomorrow so well see if he can find anything then ill post the outcome :fingers: quick question , does fiber be set at fast path or interleaving on activation or does it adjust on DLM reset ? :baby:

j0hn beat me to it - yeah what usually happens on VDSL is that you always start off with INP/Interleaving applied, then if after X days/weeks your connection shows that the error rate is reasonably low then DLM will turn them off, if you regularly get errored seconds in excess of 120 an hour then it will turn it back on.

good luck with the OR visit
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: rico_45 on February 17, 2019, 01:56:27 PM
BTOR turned up with assist on the day with a hoist and replaced the full cable from the DP to the house and issue finally resolved cant blame the engineers as they explained they work with TRC bands  :)
Title: Re: intermittent fibre
Post by: snadge on February 17, 2019, 07:29:24 PM
result  ;D