Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: mentaltom on January 17, 2019, 08:32:47 PM

Title: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on January 17, 2019, 08:32:47 PM
Hey All.  May remember me from my previous post "Before & After the DSLAM Linecard FTTC".  I am so happy to confirm that soon I will no longer be in the 3% of the population without access to fibre based DSL services!  BTO (Morrisons) begun work on my DSLAM (at a cost of £4780 to myself) yesterday.  In actual fact, although it looks like they're making a good job of it, the DSLAM is not in the location that I expected it to be.  I am going to attach some pictures I have taken this evening for my and others' interest.  My main question is that with the DSLAM potentially being another 60m away from the PCP (and the copper potentially doubling back on itself), is this another 60m whacked onto my line length over if the DSLAM had been placed right next to the cabinet? Hopefully will be able to use this thread as a bit of a "journey to FTTC" for those who're interested!

EDIT: Sorry, I have given up trying to add the images inline, link is below:

https://imgur.com/a/QvLUGjN (https://imgur.com/a/QvLUGjN)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on January 17, 2019, 10:23:55 PM
Yes it will make your line 60 meters longer, the copper doubling back makes no difference as the VDSL signal travels from the fibre cab to PCP then to your home.

Whether it makes any difference to your potential speeds depends how far you are away and the quality of your line.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on January 18, 2019, 12:22:57 AM
Thank you. Oh, not very good placement then, I wonder why it was decided that this would be the most suitable location!? My line quality is very good - at the moment I receive 15mb down / 1 up on ADSL when my line length is 3km from the exchange - most ISPs estimate I will only receive between 6-8mb. So I expect that the whole line is of good quality - the line between the PCP and the house is less than 4 years old. 
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on January 18, 2019, 12:35:44 AM
100m is apparently the max distance, but the closer the better really.

60m is quite long.

It shouldn't make a huge difference to your speeds.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on January 18, 2019, 01:06:48 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190118/e32602f7fd79984f497d8493df4863e4.jpg)

Stood today!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on January 18, 2019, 01:08:14 PM
Thanks John.

Also just been informed that the PCP needs a reshell, I could have told them that in 2016 and not 20 days before the deadline!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on January 18, 2019, 04:11:48 PM
Also just been informed that the PCP needs a reshell, I could have told them that in 2016 and not 20 days before the deadline!

Having just taken a look, with the aid of Google's Street View, I see a twin-door, cast-iron, PCP. There certainly will not be enough space inside for the deployment of the tie-cables!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on January 18, 2019, 04:13:22 PM
Having just taken a look, with the aid of Google's Street View, I see a twin-door, cast-iron, PCP. There certainly will not be enough space inside for the deployment of the tie-cables!

Thank you - I knew it, you knew it. God knows why OR didnít think of it until now!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on January 18, 2019, 04:26:02 PM
It will need to be done before the tie-cables can be pulled through the ducts. The actual re-shelling process does not take that long . . . the problem will come if it isn't documented on the work-sheet.  ::)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 21, 2019, 11:44:31 PM
Hey All.  Thought it would be useful to give you an update on this situation. It goes without saying that the deadline of 13 February came and went, the cabinet still has no tie cables installed and no power source. In addition, the cabinet has still not been reshelled.  I got a message from Openreach today to say that this has been booked in for the first week in April. In other words, the delivery will be well over 2 months late. Not only that but it will have been over 3 years since I originally enquired about FTTC in my new build home.  Those opposite me who are on a newer phase are laughing as they had FTTP installed by default. I feel quite frankly sick that Openreach have wasted so much of my time and money and donít have any sense of urgency delivering what I contributed towards.  I would be interested to know if anyone else has had experience with OR so miserably failing to meet their deadlines, they had 12 months to deploy one cabinet.  Not only that, but they only offered me FTTC. It was only after I signed the contract that they then offered me another quotation for FTTP. I appreciate that it is a first world problem, but I am so frustrated with the whole situation - thank you for your patience with me!!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on February 22, 2019, 12:14:19 AM
Your frustration with the events, both those which have happened and those which have not, is understandable.  :(

Please keep us updated, as appropriate.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on February 22, 2019, 12:52:19 AM
Your anger is justified, but it is pointed in the wrong direction.

Your developer ordered a copper only service when they built your home, and that's what OpenReach installed.
They ordered FTTP for the new phase and that's what OpenReach installed.

OpenReach are no more obligated to provide you with SuperFast broadband than Virgin or CityFibre are.
Why are you not mad at them for not providing you this?

I'd be grateful OpenReach are covering me when nobody else will.
I'd be annoyed my developer was so short sighted and wouldn't contribute to FTTC or FTTP.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 22, 2019, 02:02:16 AM
Your anger is justified, but it is pointed in the wrong direction.

Your developer ordered a copper only service when they built your home, and that's what OpenReach installed.
They ordered FTTP for the new phase and that's what OpenReach installed.

OpenReach are no more obligated to provide you with SuperFast broadband than Virgin or CityFibre are.
Why are you not mad at them for not providing you this?

I'd be grateful OpenReach are covering me when nobody else will.
I'd be annoyed my developer was so short sighted and wouldn't contribute to FTTC or FTTP.

Thanks both of you. I can assure you that I am equally as exasperated with the developer. However at this moment in time I have formally contracted with Openreach. I do feel guilty that I am holding them solely responsible for the situation when a number of timing factors are involved - e.g BDUK plans drawn up pre my development, FTTP not being a default offering in 2014, FTTP then being a default offering in 2016 and so on. One thing I can tell you truthfully is that it is certainly a situation I have done my best to overcome and is not of my doing. The cabinet serving my property was the only one not to be upgraded in 2014 by BDUK, as at this time there were only 25 properties on the PCP. Doubly ironically, It was thought best for BDUK to provide these old (not new build) homes with FTTP, as this would be cheaper than installing a DSLAM to just serve 25 people. That was prior to the 375 homes built in 2015 with copper. And then came Fibre First for the second phase of new build. Iím on a copper island!

My developer have claimed that in 2014 when they were ordering telephony provision for the site, Openreach still only installed copper by default. FTTP was available but at many many more times the cost, and wasnít considered by any developer at the time. However the new homes I allude to opposite me were planned in 2016, when Openreachís focus shifted to their Fibre first programme and hence subsidised the cost of FTTP to bring it in line with Copper.

So - 3 stories from 3 different organisations - Developer, BDUK, Openreach. Who do you fancy believing today?
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: gt94sss2 on February 22, 2019, 02:28:21 AM
My developer have claimed that in 2014 when they were ordering telephony provision for the site, Openreach still only installed copper by default. FTTP was available but at many many more times the cost, and wasnít considered by any developer at the time.

While its true, Openreach wasn't providing FTTP as standard (i.e. free) on new builds until 2016, one might suggest the developer is being economical with the truth - a quick google shows estates being built prior to 2015 with FTTP - here (https://community.bt.com/t5/BT-Fibre-broadband/New-build-house-in-FTTP-development-getting-phone-amp-Infinity/td-p/999506) is one example from 2013.

It would be down to the choice of the developer to choose what service Openreach installed - some were definitely opting for FTTP even back then.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on February 22, 2019, 06:20:16 AM
Your anger is justified, but it is pointed in the wrong direction.

His anger is pointed in the correct direction, he contributed nearly £5k towards the cabinet and was not offered fftp. If I'd done that and felt it had taken far too long I'd complain to the CEO.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 22, 2019, 09:51:47 AM
His anger is pointed in the correct direction, he contributed nearly £5k towards the cabinet and was not offered fftp. If I'd done that and felt it had taken far too long I'd complain to the CEO.

Oh believe me I have. They say ďletís get the cabinet in then we will discuss the complaintĒ.

Thanks to all again for their input.

Yes - some parties may well be being economical with the truth, but I have no recourse. Iím just totally burnt out Iím afraid I can barely think about it without becoming frustrated at the whole situation and all parties.

Tom
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on February 22, 2019, 10:21:05 AM
Hopefully the works will go ahead in April as now planned  :fingers:
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on February 22, 2019, 10:25:21 AM
His anger is pointed in the correct direction, he contributed nearly £5k towards the cabinet and was not offered fftp. If I'd done that and felt it had taken far too long I'd complain to the CEO.

I can understand blaming OpenReach for the 2 month delay in his FTTC.

What makes you think he should have been offered FTTP though?
He originally wasn't on an FTTC cabinet so FTTPoD wasn't available.
If he wanted to pay twice then when FTTC is active FTTPoD will become available.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 22, 2019, 10:28:43 AM
I can understand blaming OpenReach for the 2 month delay in his FTTC.

What makes you think he should have been offered FTTP though?
He originally wasn't on an FTTC cabinet so FTTPoD wasn't available.
If he wanted to pay twice then when FTTC is active FTTPoD will become available.

Thank John. So it will definitely be the case that as soon as the cabinet is live I will be able to order FTTPoD? I have had another quotation from Openreach for FTTP (joined to the node serving the second phase properties - £8000 - they must think Iím on Mr Selleyís salary!)

I just wish Iíd been offered the FTTP for £8000 in the first place and then I could have used another Government grant for it.

Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on February 22, 2019, 10:53:41 AM
Yes FTTPoD is only available to those connected to an FTTC cabinet.

When FTTC is live you can get a free desktop (rough) quote and it's £250+vat for a full survey that will give a fixed price.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on February 22, 2019, 01:17:53 PM
I can understand blaming OpenReach for the 2 month delay in his FTTC.

What makes you think he should have been offered FTTP though?

From what he has said in the past, he implied that when he started looking into better broadband he was only offered the option of paying towards FTTC, only later being offered FTTP under the community fibre partnership when it was too late as he'd committed to FTTC. I believe that the FTTC was negotiated after newer houses on the same estate had FTTP installed but mentaltom was unaware of this at the time. Don't most companies have a duty of care to at least make someone aware there are better options?

Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 22, 2019, 04:36:01 PM
Yes FTTPoD is only available to those connected to an FTTC cabinet.

When FTTC is live you can get a free desktop (rough) quote and it's £250+vat for a full survey that will give a fixed price.

Thanks John. For some reason I thought that by default FTTPoD wouldnít show as available on the wholesale checker unless OR has actually changed such a flag. But if it is as soon as the FTTC is live I may as well get a quote. Not that I am going to hold you to a recommendation, but what ISP would you recommend I go through to get a desktop quotation started ? On FTTP Iíd be looking for a 150 or 300 down service. Unlimited usage.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 22, 2019, 04:40:22 PM
From what he has said in the past, he implied that when he started looking into better broadband he was only offered the option of paying towards FTTC, only later being offered FTTP under the community fibre partnership when it was too late as he'd committed to FTTC. I believe that the FTTC was negotiated after newer houses on the same estate had FTTP installed but mentaltom was unaware of this at the time. Don't most companies have a duty of care to at least make someone aware there are better options?


Thatís right Ronski. The FTTP quote through CFP was £8000. The FTTC was £5000. I got £800 of the £5000 back through government. However if I had had the option of FTTP at the time, I would have used the governments ultrafast voucher scheme of £3000, effectively making it only £800 more to go for FTTP. While the FTTC is benefiting other residents, quite frankly when I am paying for it, I have the right to be selfish and have had FTTP for me only with maybe a few other residents benefiting as a result of passthrough.

Thank you for both you inputs - both equally as valuable to me :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on February 22, 2019, 05:57:04 PM
There are several big threads following on from one another on Think Broadband forums regarding FTTP (link to latest (http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4612934-fttpod-desktop-quotes-and-final-prices-part-3.html?vc=1)), most seem to have gone through www.cerberusnetworks.co.uk but there are a few other options which I'm sure someone will mention.

PS. It used to be the case that FTTPod was only avaiable on a few exchanges, now I think it's pretty much all exhanges, but only ever if connected by an FTTC enabled cabinet.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 27, 2019, 02:24:09 PM
Thanks - I am keeping an eye on that thread. I'd have hoped my quotation would be at the lower end of the scale, and ironically I would have expected that running fibre from the node in existence for my neighbours who have FTTP by default (fed from the same manhole as where my copper DP resides!) would be easier than running fibre from the new cabinet through FTTPoD.  I dread to think what timescales will be though, if it's taken 15 months to install one cabinet.

 The latest from Openreach is that they expect the FTTC cabinet will be ready for service by 5 April 2019, and that compensation will be discussed after that date.  I don't really want financial compensation, I would prefer that FTTP is installed and was originally offered to me.  I think I will be combining a primary and a secondary FTTC connection in order to create an "Ultrafast" style service - well, that's what I have set up for, anyway.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 27, 2019, 02:25:43 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/19f7464608391a9a241704dd2857e372.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 27, 2019, 02:28:34 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190227/299a1835c64bef4fdad1076e24a529d8.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on February 27, 2019, 07:51:56 PM
and ironically I would have expected that running fibre from the node in existence for my neighbours who have FTTP by default (fed from the same manhole as where my copper DP resides!) would be easier than running fibre from the new cabinet through FTTPoD.

They don't run the fibre from the cabinet, they run it from the nearest aggregation node (quite possibly the one supplying your neighbours), which is why having to be supplied by an FTTC cabinet doesn't make sense and must stop some ordering FTTPod when its close by but not on an FTTC cab just like you.

Nice setup with the networking equipment, it's got a satifying symetry.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on February 27, 2019, 08:30:25 PM
Thanks Ronski. Yes symmetry is my thing. Just a shame that neither modem are connected at the other end , and that clunky Sky all-in-one is serving my ADSL!

Ah, thatís exactly what I thought, I didnít think theyíd run Fibre from the cab. But just has no idea otherwise why FTTC was a prerequisite!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on February 28, 2019, 06:35:33 AM
There's no physical need for FTTC at all to supply FTTPoD.

They simply make it a requirement as it (usually) suggests there is an aggregation node within a suitable distance.

It was probably the easiest way they could make FTTPoD available on a wide scale without accidentally making it show available to those who it wouldn't be suitable.

Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on February 28, 2019, 08:09:39 AM
That's my thoughts to John, but with more fftp and of course wide spread fttc cabinet's that method is failing. Surely they know the location of their aggregation nodes and they could cross reference with addresses and therefore show FTTPod as available when a node is within a given radius.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on March 11, 2019, 11:25:35 PM
I was just reading this article:

https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/03/persimmon-sues-bt-over-unpaid-bill-for-new-homes-infrastructure.html#comment-201924 (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2019/03/persimmon-sues-bt-over-unpaid-bill-for-new-homes-infrastructure.html#comment-201924)

and it really reminded me of my situation.  I'm about to post a little diagram I marked up in about 5 seconds in Paint, which shows the infrastructure layout of my house, with the house 3 doors down having FTTP.  With this in mind, should I still take my £8,000 quotation for FTTP seriously, or do you think OR would actually just run a bit of fibre from the nearest DP to my door?  I know that interconnecting ducts are already present.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on March 11, 2019, 11:27:24 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190311/f2eee8214205fa62e41c76ab9640f1cb.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: gt94sss2 on March 12, 2019, 07:12:43 PM
I'm about to post a little diagram I marked up in about 5 seconds in Paint, which shows the infrastructure layout of my house, with the house 3 doors down having FTTP.  With this in mind, should I still take my £8,000 quotation for FTTP seriously, or do you think OR would actually just run a bit of fibre from the nearest DP to my door?  I know that interconnecting ducts are already present.

I assume the £8,000 is based on FTTC being live on your cab and is just a desktop survey.

Experience of others has shown than when Openreach carry out a proper survey (which they charge for under FTToD), then costs usually tend to drop quite a bit.

Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on March 12, 2019, 08:19:13 PM
The £8000 quote was a CFP quote for FTTP that was received after a CFP order of an FTTC cabinet was placed.

FTTPoD would likely be much much cheaper than the CFP quote if the infrastructure is actually as laid out above.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on March 12, 2019, 10:39:15 PM
The £8000 quote was a CFP quote for FTTP that was received after a CFP order if an FTTC cabinet was ordered.

FTTPoD would likely be much much cheaper than the CFP quote if the infrastructure is actually as laid out above.

Thanks John - although the node/Fibre DP was present at the time the quote was produced.  It has been present for over 2 years now.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 09, 2019, 11:41:58 AM
April 2019 Update: after being told by a Openreach of further delays beyond March, I think I should finally be able to order FTTC on 15th April. Openreach have pulled it out of the bag this week having back to back works for power, PCP reshell and tie cable jointing. On speaking with the contractors they will be reshelling the PCP and adding a ďpodĒ to the side of it to house the tie cable blocks. ISPs can also see an availability date of 13 April. The image below is of the old PCP with its doors blown off in preparation for it being removed and reshelled (yesterday):

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/24fdae743cfb82580c52eeaf9462882d.jpg)

While I wait patiently for one more week, I have been using BT Wholesale checker and CodeLook to try to predict my distance from the DSLAM and therefore speed. Are there any other online checkers available that can provide me with technical details or a distance calculator for my line? I have a feeling I will receive about 65MB/18MB and so if ordering two services Iíll be able to bond them to 130/36.  This is using the BTW Checker address search:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/53161a7f359fad9b8c79abc0e383f0bc.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: PhilipD on April 09, 2019, 03:36:46 PM
Hi


While I wait patiently for one more week, I have been using BT Wholesale checker and CodeLook to try to predict my distance from the DSLAM and therefore speed. Are there any other online checkers available that can provide me with technical details or a distance calculator for my line? I have a feeling I will receive about 65MB/18MB and so if ordering two services Iíll be able to bond them to 130/36.  This is using the BTW Checker address search:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/53161a7f359fad9b8c79abc0e383f0bc.jpg)

There is nothing that will predict the speeds any more accurately than the checker you have used, and there are so many variables it is why they give that wide range.

Some things to keep in mind.  We assume you'll be one of the first people on that cabinet, so no cross talk and you'll likely get something close to the maximum 80/20.  If you have two lines, they will cross talk with each other, and then as each new person takes up a service, you'll speeds will likely take a drop due to additional cross-talk.  VDSL like ADSL is a poor technology, it's a kludge to get data over old infrastructure and you may start of good, but things will likely slow down over time as others take the service.  This is why you have a at best figure and a lower figure, it's not unusual to start of the top extreme and over time trickle down to the lower :-(

Regards

Phil

Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 09, 2019, 03:39:28 PM
You can use Google maps to measure the most likely route using what information you know. There are no tools available that I know of regarding premises to cab distance.  If you know an engineer they can look up the distance for you, but it's not a good guide for what speed you'll get, that depends on many variables.
Title: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 09, 2019, 04:48:44 PM
The new PCP, just finished:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/2943059d73dee7dc6220070771436e76.jpg)

Before:

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190409/c4340a9746d49659805ec66458ecdb1f.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 09, 2019, 05:05:21 PM
Hi

There is nothing that will predict the speeds any more accurately than the checker you have used, and there are so many variables it is why they give that wide range.

Some things to keep in mind.  We assume you'll be one of the first people on that cabinet, so no cross talk and you'll likely get something close to the maximum 80/20.  If you have two lines, they will cross talk with each other, and then as each new person takes up a service, you'll speeds will likely take a drop due to additional cross-talk.  VDSL like ADSL is a poor technology, it's a kludge to get data over old infrastructure and you may start of good, but things will likely slow down over time as others take the service.  This is why you have a at best figure and a lower figure, it's not unusual to start of the top extreme and over time trickle down to the lower :-(

Regards

Phil

Thanks Both. Having used google maps measurer along a number of potential routes, even a worse case scenario route would equate to about 296m line length, a logical route would be 196m, and a crow flies route would be 103m.  I know VDSL is old technology, and I am sure I have ranted about that in a couple of posts above, but that's what they sold me! Just posted some photos from the reshell. 
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 09, 2019, 06:32:55 PM
It's a bit odd that your estimate is what it is, given those distances and that the estate is only a few years old so safe to assume you actually do have copper phone lines, you also will have g.inp and dB X I would have thought you'd easily get 80/20.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 09, 2019, 09:13:41 PM
It's a bit odd that your estimate is what it is, given those distances and that the estate is only a few years old so safe to assume you actually do have copper phone lines, you also will have g.inp and dB X I would have thought you'd easily get 80/20.

Thanks Ronski. When the service is actually live and I can post router stats, I will probably have to ask you more about g.inp and dB X , as I am actually not sure I how much control I have on that and what it does. I infer you mean that as the cabinet is just installed these technologies will be live on the DSLAM from the outset ? Tom
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 09, 2019, 10:24:57 PM
They are not live at the outset of a new connection, new connections have interleaving applied, then after a few days/weeks g.inp normally kicks in, then if not at full sync and the line can support it the target SNR is gradually dropped from 6 to 3 in stages of 1dB so long as the line can support it and is below the maximum  package speed.

ECI cabinets don't support g.inp or dB X, luckily for you they stopped installing ECI years ago and now only install Huawei cabinets.

There's not much you can do to control it, you can force a lower sync, but others know far more about that than I do.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 10, 2019, 11:03:35 AM
BREAKING NEWS: Delay Again.  Openreach informed that the proposed cable route for power would not be suitable.  This is the 3rd time that this has been the reason for the delay. All other work is complete. :'(
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 10, 2019, 01:16:25 PM
That's frustrating,  power supply issues can cause long delays  :no:
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 10, 2019, 01:37:52 PM
That's frustrating,  power supply issues can cause long delays  :no:

I know. Itís getting to the stable now where I feel like just cancelling my order and looking at alternative solutions such as a 4G antenna. But of course I am committed to paying Openreach unless I were to take legal action to recover my funds.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 10, 2019, 03:48:04 PM
Power supply issues/cost has been known to cause cabinets to be removed as its proved too expensive to get power to them. Worse case the new cab could be cancelled, but that could mean FTTP becomes an option I suppose.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 10, 2019, 03:56:28 PM
That would almost be heartbreaking considering I placed the order for the cab 14 months ago and all other work has been completed. As you say the small blessing would be that they may reconsider my pleas to run FTTP which would not require all of these prerequisites. But itís the sheer lead time involved. Iíll have been in this house for 4 years in November and I am potentially facing redundancy if I cannot commit to being able to access all the systems I require for work effectively.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: ktz392837 on April 10, 2019, 05:06:36 PM
BREAKING NEWS: Delay Again.  Openreach informed that the proposed cable route for power would not be suitable.  This is the 3rd time that this has been the reason for the delay. All other work is complete. :'(
Don't lose hope they should sort it.  I watched my none working cabinet for a good 24 months whilst they sorted out power but they got it sorted in the end.  Extremely frustrating though.  I would hope with their experience now, sorting out power issues would be much quicker than what was several years ago.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 11, 2019, 10:17:28 AM
Do you get decent reception on Three mobile? If so might be worth giving that a go for the short term.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 11, 2019, 11:31:53 AM
Do you get decent reception on Three mobile? If so might be worth giving that a go for the short term.

I have been looking into that. I left three a couple of years ago in favour of Vodafone, because the signal isnít great in my property. In an effort to appease me Openreach also offered me a 4G solution on EE which I also donít find very reliable in my area. However my mobile which is currently on Vodafone is Superfast!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190411/a6f6763203074ed9793d7c1845feb951.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 11, 2019, 03:44:07 PM
It's a shame Vodafone don't do  decent data Sim, otherwise that would tide you over.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 14, 2019, 12:46:47 PM
Just been speaking to a company called phonemasters who are local and have been on site today finishing off the cables. They have informed me that they have had to highlight on their job notes that the length of the tie cables between the PCP and the DSLAM is 105m.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 14, 2019, 02:42:53 PM
Seems odd they didn't just put it next to the PCP, unless there's something underground there, or issues getting power there.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 14, 2019, 02:51:58 PM
There would have been absolutely no issues getting power there - in fact there is a power supply there.  The reason they didn't was allegedly owing to planning, because the height of the DSLAM is significantly higher than the boundary wall of properties behind it.  However, these properties were built after mine - so if they're installed along with the rest of the town, this would have been a non-issue.  Proper, Prior, Planning, Prevents...... ::)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 16, 2019, 04:20:05 PM
New live date provided of 8 May 2019.

Power work is to commence this Thursday 18 April and run right through the bank holiday weekend or until finished. As soon as this is done final checks can be completed and the cabinet can be marked as live.


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Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on April 16, 2019, 10:45:22 PM
There would have been absolutely no issues getting power there - in fact there is a power supply there.

I had to go back to the Google street-view image of the old, cast-iron, PCP 25 (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2393074,-3.1143856,3a,15y,220.36h,81.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sERvuWw747k-7wVKBUZ4WnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in which a lamppost can be seen close-by, to the right.  :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 16, 2019, 10:48:12 PM
I had to go back to the Google street-view image of the old, cast-iron, PCP 25 (https://www.google.com/maps/@53.2393074,-3.1143856,3a,15y,220.36h,81.07t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sERvuWw747k-7wVKBUZ4WnA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656) in which a lamppost can be seen close-by, to the right.  :)

Yes exactly ! Real pain! Aww it makes me sad to see the now deceased cast iron cabinet on your link. But onwards and upwards :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 17, 2019, 06:09:58 AM
That's excellent news, let's hope it goes to plan  :fingers:
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 26, 2019, 10:57:26 AM
The power work has commenced and is a big job due to finish on 30 April!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/187bf04bb2d9f92dae40f8efc00af25e.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190426/b337b253d9959c14ae49d5c9fa9e5fd1.jpg)


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Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 26, 2019, 01:29:46 PM
That's great news, at least you can see they are actually doing the work
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 26, 2019, 04:23:15 PM
That's great news, at least you can see they are actually doing the work

Thanks. Hope my posts arenít becoming boring ! Thought it may be useful for people to see in the future hence trying to document everything , and all the delays and set backs that can happen!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on April 26, 2019, 05:56:31 PM
Hope my posts arenít becoming boring !

No, not at all. It is interesting to see how the progress is made . . . be it slowly or ever more slower.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on April 27, 2019, 09:09:04 AM
Certainly not boring, keep the updates coming please.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on April 30, 2019, 05:29:31 PM
The silver lock of hope has been fitted!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190430/29dc9a9e4745a4abed5a5fc3a91719af.jpg)

OR telling me I can place my order on Thursday what can possibly go wrong this time?
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 01, 2019, 09:25:38 PM
Itís alive !!!!

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190501/c1ff53676f93def7f3da5b898bd61404.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 01, 2019, 10:15:24 PM
Do you have a date for when your service will be activated?  :)

Or does the computer still say "no"?  :-X
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 01, 2019, 10:17:21 PM
Do you have a date for when your service will be activated?  :)

Or does the computer still say "no"?  :-X

Hehe. Well I ordered the minute Openreach advised me that the batch job had updated to tell SPs they could order. So I am hoping itíll be working 7-10 working days! I may be on fibre before the the end of next week! I must warn you I will then have loads of questions about line stabilisation etc ;)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 01, 2019, 10:23:14 PM
That's good news.  :thumbs:
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 02, 2019, 06:15:03 AM
That's great news  :yay:
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Chrysalis on May 02, 2019, 02:57:24 PM
100m is apparently the max distance, but the closer the better really.

60m is quite long.

It shouldn't make a huge difference to your speeds.

Not quite sure I would agree with that, I agree with ronski where it depends on the overall line length.

if the line is short enough it will make potentially zero affect to speeds, whilst if the line is long enough it can make a large effect (10s of mbits) as at certain distance points the tail off is more rapid.

It also will likely increase the impact of crosstalk as every tie pair between the cabinets on a full cabinet is carrying vdsl signal, vs in a typical pair bundle many will be voice/adsl only and no source of crosstalk.  The longer that distance between the two cabinets, the more chance of crosstalk.

With that said tho, its probably not worth fussing over as in the grand scheme of things this will be a massive improvement over legacy ADSL services.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 02, 2019, 03:18:12 PM
Not quite sure I would agree with that, I agree with ronski where it depends on the overall line length.

if the line is short enough it will make potentially zero affect to speeds, whilst if the line is long enough it can make a large effect (10s of mbits) as at certain distance points the tail off is more rapid.

It also will likely increase the impact of crosstalk as every tie pair between the cabinets on a full cabinet is carrying vdsl signal, vs in a typical pair bundle many will be voice/adsl only and no source of crosstalk.  The longer that distance between the two cabinets, the more chance of crosstalk.

With that said tho, its probably not worth fussing over as in the grand scheme of things this will be a massive improvement over legacy ADSL services.


Absolutely - very much looking forward to it. The screenshot of the wholesale checker is particular to my line and apparently includes the confirmed tie cable length of ...105m!

Having such a stable and fast ADSL service well in excess of any estimates shown on the checker - I received 14 and the checker estimates ďup to 6Ē would hopefully suggest that my copper is nice and shiny and new , so hoping for the higher end of that clean VDSL range!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Chrysalis on May 02, 2019, 03:21:20 PM
Personally I think its plausible you will early on exceed the upper estimate, taking into account x DB (3db target) and you been the first install.

However i also expect your lines to crosstalk with each other :(.

But we will see, keep us updated please.  Thanks for the photos etc. :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 02, 2019, 03:25:34 PM
Personally I think its plausible you will early on exceed the upper estimate, taking into account x DB (3db target) and you been the first install.

However i also expect your lines to crosstalk with each other :(.

But we will see, keep us updated please.  Thanks for the photos etc. :)

No problem I am pleased you have found my photos interesting - after all itís one cabinet of about 600,000 now!

When you say my lines, is this on the basis I am ordering 2 VDSLs? If so, that idea is on hold for the moment for that reason (and also because I am sure I will see such an increase in speed on VDSL that I may be blown away too much to even care about taking myself over the 100mb barrier. If I was to do it, Iíd probably just do it with a little 40/10 service as opposed to 2 x 80/20s. Decisions decisions...
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 02, 2019, 03:55:24 PM
Are you still tempted to get an FTTPod quote?
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 02, 2019, 04:51:22 PM
Are you still tempted to get an FTTPod quote?

Yes. However Cerberusís systems havenít updated yet . In fact I mentioned to Openreach that it appears that only the big six ISP groups took the updated availability in real-time.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Chrysalis on May 02, 2019, 05:13:27 PM
Well you have spent 5k to get to this stage, going 100mbit plus via 2 lines is nothing to feel bad about, you may lose some to crosstalk but two lines will still be faster than one.

Yes I meant two vdsl's for clarification, the existing adsl shouldnt have an impact.

Also for reference, your earlier grievances referencing FTTP, I totally understand and agree with ronski on as well.  I sort of agree with john as well tho, ultimately your developer is the one who will have ordered the copper cabling, but at the same time, for openreach to not offer you a FTTP quote until FTTC installation is paid for and under way I feel is wrong.  Especially given the close proximity of existing FTTP.  But think about the positive and FTTC is still a big boost from ADSL.  Be tempted to not let your neighbours know about the cabinet upgrade so they less likely to crosstalk your lines. :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 02, 2019, 05:39:25 PM
Well you have spent 5k to get to this stage, going 100mbit plus via 2 lines is nothing to feel bad about, you may lose some to crosstalk but two lines will still be faster than one.

Yes I meant two vdsl's for clarification, the existing adsl shouldnt have an impact.

Also for reference, your earlier grievances referencing FTTP, I totally understand and agree with ronski on as well.  I sort of agree with john as well tho, ultimately your developer is the one who will have ordered the copper cabling, but at the same time, for openreach to not offer you a FTTP quote until FTTC installation is paid for and under way I feel is wrong.  Especially given the close proximity of existing FTTP.  But think about the positive and FTTC is still a big boost from ADSL.  Be tempted to not let your neighbours know about the cabinet upgrade so they less likely to crosstalk your lines. :)

Thanks Chrysalis.  I know, it's turned out OK in the end - I am seen as a local hero in the community and I have spent most of last night and today receiving messages of appreciation.  I am also now aware (after a lot of back and forth) that it was indeed the developer who made the initial mistake almost five years ago of ordering copper without considering that the PCP was the only one in the town not to have a related FTTC cabinet.  This was the only cabinet not upgraded by the government in 2014 because at the time, it only had about 48 copper connections to it, and most of them were farmhouses 1m+ away (20) (anyone would think I'd researched these stats :graduate:).  Therefore, these farmhouses ended up getting FTTP from pole manifolds, and phase 2+ of my development got native FTTP also.  It was very frustrating - while FTTC is a great advancement, the fact of the matter is that apart from my initial phase of new builds, all other properties, new and old, have native FTTP.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Chrysalis on May 02, 2019, 05:43:20 PM
Yeah the situation is ridiculous, really openreach shouldnt even be deploying FTTC in 2019, especially non vectored VDSL.  But its still a thing due to ofcom and them needing to support copper as well as high cost pressures on openreach.  I expect in a unregulated market in 2015 your developer wouldnt have even had a option for copper from openreach, it would have been considered obsolete.

Hopefully the aggregation point is really close by so the FTTPoD quote is low.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 02, 2019, 06:08:18 PM
I know where the agg. node is, it's 4 doors down from me - M. J Quinn showed it to me when they were running fibre BACK PAST MY HOUSE to the Cabinet...!  :-X
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: tubaman on May 03, 2019, 09:14:46 AM
I know where the agg. node is, it's 4 doors down from me - M. J Quinn showed it to me when they were running fibre BACK PAST MY HOUSE to the Cabinet...!  :-X

So close yet so far!
I understand your frustration as I'd be pretty annoyed too.
 :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: max360 on May 04, 2019, 12:53:23 AM
Congrats. I self funded my local cabinet back in 2018 @ cost of £4684. Months later OR announced the fibre first program. Then couple of months later OR contractors started installing the CBT's on the poles, now the native FTTP is available and so is the FTTC.


Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 04, 2019, 12:56:18 AM
Congrats. I self funded my local cabinet back in 2018 @ cost of £4684. Months later OR announced the fibre first program. Then couple of months later OR contractors started installing the CBT's on the poles, now the native FTTP is available and so is the FTTC.


Hey Max. Oh  that is an interesting one - very similar price to me too. It seems illogical that they then went back to install FTTP as itís unlikely they would have had ROI on the cabinet yet ? I have actually asked for an FTTP quotation through CFP too. They quoted £8000 for me alone , so assuming itíll be out of my reach to pay again for the whole development . Just wish they had offered it first and told me that so much FTTP was deployed around me !
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 08, 2019, 07:10:11 PM
Hey All. Well the time has come, and I am due to be live tomorrow. Iíll be out at work when the service goes live, and at the moment I am using the sky hub as my modem.  However, I will want to migrate away from this as quickly as possible and begin to use a huawei hg612. This means that over the course of the next couple of days, there are likely to be a few disconnections as I install, configure and test the modem with my existing infrastructure.  I wonder if you would recommend against doing this if this will make various systems believe my line is unstable and drop my speed? In this event, would it be easy for me to call my ISP and ask them to reset the line training once setup is complete ?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 08, 2019, 07:37:19 PM
There is no configuration necessary on the HG612. It just plugs in and works.
It is a modem only and only handles the DSL link, thus working across all FTTC ISP's without any setup.

Multiple resyncs/reboots either on your Sky Hub or the HG612 are indeed seen as instability by the DLM.
Rebooting any router connected to the HG612 has no impact on the DLM.
DLM action for too many resyncs is capping the line (known as banding).
DLM can take a very long time to remove this banding.

My advice is either make any changes offline or keep the HG612 synced at all times when making config changes/reboots on the router.

If you plan to unlock the HG612 with modified firmware to access the stats then this should be done when the device isn't connected to the phone line.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 08, 2019, 08:05:10 PM
Thank you.

The modem is flashed to the webgui. I havenít made any configuration changes to it, with the exception of assigning it a LAN static IP to remote into the webgui, as I believe by default itíll get one from my DHCP server and this could change. Additionally I will change the modem IP address as this is currently 192.168.1.1 and this is my routers address and clients default gateway. Ideally, Iíd want the webgui interface to be accessible only on my management VLAN. Hence there being a couple of potential reboots. To keep this to a minimum Iíll ensure all configuration is done prior to switching from the sky hub to the modem.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 08, 2019, 09:39:54 PM
Everything j0hn has said, above, and one suggestion from me . . .

Whilst you are logged into the HG612's GUI, make a point of deleting the VLAN tagged 301. That is the "back channel" which was used by the BTagent and the means by which Opereach and/or BT Group would monitor the circuit's behaviour.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 09, 2019, 02:07:47 PM
Thank you both. Iíll leave the sky hub in place until next week as I am away for work from thus evening anyway until Tuesday. I am live!!!

Sorry for the basic stats.....went live at about midday exactly and of course I caught the engineer at the PCP for a chat! Rock solid so far, although I do hope over time Iíll be able to creep up over the 70mb barrier ;)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190509/1e6ff293892fb4b69ee29a5f450ed71d.jpg)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 09, 2019, 03:47:33 PM
Finally connected, great news, you'll easily get over 70 with dBx, just depends how hard cross talk affects you as overs sign up.

I never used to worry about a few disconnections and never had any issues, I think you need quite a few to upset the DLM. The advise used to be to power off the modem and not to power it back up for a least 30 minutes.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 09, 2019, 05:09:02 PM
The line shouldn't be far off 80Mb in 2 days after interleaving is removed and G.INP applied.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 09, 2019, 07:40:38 PM
The line shouldn't be far off 80Mb in 2 days after interleaving is removed and G.INP applied.


Thanks both. All happens automatically I take it ? Will just leave everything connected as is?
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 09, 2019, 08:01:40 PM
Yes all happens automatically, but not always in two days, sometimes it's longer. Once G.INP is applied the target dB will be reduced if the line is considered stable enough, you should easily get 80Mbps.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 14, 2019, 05:55:05 PM
Hey All.

Decided to migrate over to the HG612 this morning. The rx sync speed actually went down from 68 to 62Mb between the sky hub and the hg612 respectively, but I have not dared attempted a reboot. I kept the modem off for about 40 minutes after disconnecting the sky hub. However this means that I have now been able to take full line stats which I show below.

The HG612ís IP is set to 192.168.10.1 (changed from the default of 1.1 which is the same as my router) - despite setting up a static route on my router to pass traffic for 192.168.10.0/24 to 192.168.10.1, I canít access it from my main network. Always need to plug in to LAN2 with a laptop and manually set an IP on it within the 10. range. Also tried following steps I saw on AAISP wiki to allow me to access the modem via the LAN1 port, but I canít set the WAN port on my router to a static IP because quite rightly the modem passes the WAN IP it gets from Sky to this interface using DHCP. 

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190514/06c8a797f322c68fa7f68d30b67526fe.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 14, 2019, 05:58:46 PM
1. I donít think G.INP has been applied yet

2. Do my stats look good or would any of you express a cause for concern ? Iíll need to learn to interpret these graphs I am afraid
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 14, 2019, 10:47:37 PM
The plots are quite respectable. I cannot see anything that would give me cause for concern about the state of the metallic pathway between the modem and the DSLAM. There is a little sign of some cross-talk with other circuits but there is nothing to worry about . . . especially as nothing can be done about it.

I can confirm that currently G.Inp (ITU-T G.998.4) is not active on your circuit.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 15, 2019, 06:16:33 AM
Why don't you set the modern to 192.168.1.254 and just connect LAN 2 to spare port on the router or to a switch if you have one?
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 15, 2019, 10:49:47 AM
Why don't you set the modern to 192.168.1.254 and just connect LAN 2 to spare port on the router or to a switch if you have one?

I'l try that - thank you.  Just ran out of time yesterday.  Apart from that, does everything else look OK? Roll on G.INP - I did phone sky about when it's likely to be applied but they did not understand.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 15, 2019, 11:42:53 AM
Most ISP's don't understand the FTTC DLM.
They have absolutely zero control over it.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 15, 2019, 11:57:32 AM
Most ISP's don't understand the FTTC DLM.
They have absolutely zero control over it.

Thanks John. Ok, Iíll just sit tight and be patient and hopefully over the next few weeks Iíll notice G.INP be applied.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 15, 2019, 01:23:19 PM
I'm no good at interpreting the stats, but g.inp can take a long time to be applied,  my brothers took absolutely ages, no idea why.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 15, 2019, 06:57:20 PM
. . . does everything else look OK?

Yes. As I said in reply #95, above.
Title: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 23, 2019, 12:24:05 AM
Hey All.

Not sure how well you can read the below. Iíll now have had the service installed for almost exactly 2 weeks. At exactly 11am this morning, my DS and US attainable rate dropped quite considerably - 75000 to 64228 (I am synced at 64294) and 25000 to 23183.

SNR margin dropped from 6.9 to 3.6 DS and 15.3 to 12.4 for the US.
 
G.INP still not enabled.

Got a bit of a shock when I saw the attainable rate drop off by more than 10mb, as I was hoping to creep up to that speed. Is this just DLM doing its thing or did something have an impact at 11 this morning ? (machinery or new VDSL connections being added?)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 23, 2019, 01:11:30 AM
Not sure how well you can read the below.

Sorry. I can't make out anything from that montage.  :no:
Title: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 23, 2019, 01:29:49 AM
Sorry, that was the ďfullĒ graphic produced for the last 24 hour period showing the drop in attainable but didnít realise it was such low res. Here is a before and after current line stats from 2200 on 21st and 2200 on 22nd respectively. Thank you in advance for all your advice :)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190523/a92adfceead05b123b82ba345391fb1f.jpg)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190523/85e307b517261916eb61ae51c1e6afbb.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: burakkucat on May 23, 2019, 01:55:39 AM
Having noticed the time (and I can hear my bed calling), I just did a quick visual comparison of the plots. Nothing really stands out . . . so I suspect that you have been hit by a nasty dose of cross-talk.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 23, 2019, 02:36:07 PM
Oh no! I was hoping that the target SNR was being intentionally reduced as I believe that the target is now 3 on stabilised lines (as opposed to 6). Also, it happened  bag on 11am (to the second) yesterday suggesting it was an intentional action as opposed to just random crosstalk over time.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 23, 2019, 05:04:05 PM
The fact it occurred bang on 11am means the new crosstalker went live at that exact time.

The target SNRM being reduced would increase the attainable rate.
The target can only be lowered on lines with G.INP active.

It's the current SNRM that has reduced (not the target) which suggests additional noise has lowered the line from the 6dB target.

Sounds like crosstalk to me.
Sadly from a crosstalk point of view and with it being a newly activated cabinet it is likely to only get worse as more take up the service.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 23, 2019, 05:07:20 PM
The fact it occurred bang on 11am means the new crosstalker went live at that exact time.

The target SNRM being reduced would increase the attainable rate.
The target can only be lowered on lines with G.INP active.

Sounds like crosstalk to me.
Sadly from a crosstalk point of view and with it being a newly activated cabinet it is likely to only get worse as more take up the service.

Thanks John. Letís hope that G.INP is applied sooner rather than later then, think I will be patient and wait until end of June and if itís still not active Iíll query with Openreach. Iím worried in their haste in configuring the DSLAM they havenít configured it to use g.INP!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 23, 2019, 07:54:29 PM
Shame you didn't get them to install it with vectoring  :no: (presuming of course they allowed that option)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 23, 2019, 09:24:54 PM
Shame you didn't get them to install it with vectoring  :no: (presuming of course they allowed that option)

Donít think so, or if I had asked no one would have understood what I was talking about. Interleaving is applied though from what I can tell, which from what I have read would be normal on a new line for the first few weeks.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 23, 2019, 11:56:18 PM
I'd say over 90% of the time G.INP is applied after 48 hours.
For others it can be a few weeks.
For my line it took 11 weeks to apply G.INP.

A very very small amount of lines seem to get overlooked completely.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Chrysalis on May 24, 2019, 01:42:25 AM
The good news is that usually its early crosstalkers that have the biggest impact, its not a hard fast rule, but in tests that were done prior to VDSL been a commercial product by BT and other telcos most of the time they found the first crosstalker had a massive impact but then others had smaller levels of impact.  Because the existing crosstalk kind of smothers new crosstalk.

My first crosstalker knocked off about 20mbit (110 down to 90 attainable), the second about another 10, then I had more after that but were on individual levels much smaller.  Not every activation will be a crosstalker, if they on a different cable bundle or on the far side of your cable bundle they probably wont impact your line.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: Ronski on May 24, 2019, 06:17:42 AM
Vectoring is noise cancellation, it effectively cancels out cross talk.

https://www.edpnet.be/en/support/installation-and-usage/internet/learn-about-dsl-configuration/what-is-vectoring-technology.html

It is currently rolled out on a very select few BDUK cabinets to reach targets.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 24, 2019, 07:07:01 PM
Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread over the past few months - your help and advice has been invaluable and I hope too that other forum members have or will be interested in the "journey" I have been on.  I'm disappointed that after 11 days there is no sign of G.INP, but I am also conscious that I am asking questions of you that have been discussed in other threads.  I have called both Sky & Openreach - Sky say they can no longer request DLM resets or similar, and Openreach say that this is an SP matter. 

I've spent several hours today reading large threads on the forum as people post their line stats, attempt to set their sync speeds and poke DLM into behaving a certain way.  After all this reading, I have come to the conclusion that the best thing to do is to leave everything alone, and put trust in the system. I will be back in touch on 1 July, and by this time I hope to have some positive news to share - HG612 Modem Stats is running 24/7!

Thank you once again everyone.  And one final dump of my line stats:

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --stats

xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status

Status: Showtime

Retrain Reason: 0

Last initialization procedure status: 0

Max: Upstream rate = 23136 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64228 Kbps

Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64294 Kbps



Link Power State: L0

Mode: VDSL2 Annex B

VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a

TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)

Trellis: U:ON /D:ON

Line Status: No Defect

Training Status: Showtime

Down Up

SNR (dB): 3.6 12.4

Attn(dB): 16.4 0.0

Pwr(dBm): 12.4 6.8

VDSL2 framing

Bearer 0

MSGc: 18 26

B: 51 237

M: 1 1

T: 64 42

R: 12 16

S: 0.0257 0.3781

L: 19896 5374

D: 1259 1

I: 64 127

N: 64 254

Counters

Bearer 0

OHF: 169696012 3059304

OHFErr: 22 730

RS: 492352733 121844

RSCorr: 2375406 2837

RSUnCorr: 244 0



Bearer 0

HEC: 36 0

OCD: 1 0

LCD: 1 0

Total Cells: 326903516 0

Data Cells: 2078748631 0

Drop Cells: 0

Bit Errors: 0 0



ES: 6 612

SES: 0 0

UAS: 27 27

AS: 280577



Bearer 0

INP: 3.00 0.00

INPRein: 0.00 0.00

delay: 8 0

PER: 1.65 3.98

OR: 116.12 64.22

AgR: 64410.39 20063.54



Bitswap: 200848/200851 650/653



Total time = 1 days 5 hours 56 min 44 sec

FEC: 2375406 2837

CRC: 22 730

ES: 6 612

SES: 0 0

UAS: 27 27

LOS: 0 0

LOF: 0 0

LOM: 0 0

Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 44 sec

FEC: 2773 0

CRC: 0 0

ES: 0 0

SES: 0 0

UAS: 0 0

LOS: 0 0

LOF: 0 0

LOM: 0 0

Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec

FEC: 4811 111

CRC: 0 130

ES: 0 57

SES: 0 0

UAS: 0 0

LOS: 0 0

LOF: 0 0

LOM: 0 0

Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 56 min 44 sec

FEC: 114899 248

CRC: 0 179

ES: 0 101

SES: 0 0

UAS: 0 0

LOS: 0 0

LOF: 0 0

LOM: 0 0

Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec

FEC: 1127893 558

CRC: 2 196

ES: 1 176

SES: 0 0

UAS: 0 0

LOS: 0 0

LOF: 0 0

LOM: 0 0

Since Link time = 3 days 5 hours 56 min 17 sec

FEC: 2375406 2837

CRC: 22 730

ES: 6 612

SES: 0 0

UAS: 0 0

LOS: 0 0

LOF: 0 0

LOM: 0 0



HELLO HG612
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 23136 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64228 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64294 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23136 kbps     64228 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.8 dBm      12.4 dBm
====================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 5.9 21.3 30.9   N/A   N/A 11.3 25.3 38.6
Signal Attenuation(dB): 5.9 20.7 29.9   N/A   N/A 15.1 25.1 38.6
SNR Margin(dB): 12.4 12.5 12.4   N/A   N/A 3.6 3.6 3.6
TX Power(dBm): -3.9 -22.5 6.6   N/A   N/A 8.0 7.9 6.9

Good Bye HG612



xdslcmd --version
xdslcmd version 1.0
DSL PHY: AnnexA version - A2pv6C038m.d24j
******* Pass *********


equipcmd swversion display
software version: V100R001C01B030SP08

xdsl firmware version: A2pv6C038m.d24j

cpu version: BCM6368

cfe version: 1.0.37-102.6

display version success
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 29, 2019, 01:01:24 PM
Ok, I know I promised that I wouldnít post again. However I have Openreach out this morning and they have tried several things including a DLM reset. By completing these reset, interleaving was removed from the line. So I am going to just leave it alone now and see if DLM applies ReTX now that interleaving has turned off. The removal of interleaving actually reduced my attainable, but made my sync level with attainable. So I am now exactly 60000/19999
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 29, 2019, 03:36:22 PM
Can you post a set of stats?
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on May 29, 2019, 03:48:15 PM
Of course.

This is the "resync stats" from when the engineer reset DLM and the Interleaving dropped:

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 21398 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60084 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60087 Kbps

Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.2 7.0
Attn(dB): 16.3 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.3 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: 18 26
B: 239 237
M: 1 1
T: 64 42
R: 0 16
S: 0.1271 0.3781
L: 15104 5374
D: 1 1
I: 240 127
N: 240 254
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 23507 11862
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 0 498012
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 5514439 0
Data Cells: 96 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 56 1762
SES: 32 0
UAS: 2400 2368
AS: 48

Bearer 0
INP: 0.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 2.04 3.98
OR: 94.03 64.22
AgR: 60180.91 20063.54

Bitswap: 0/0 1/1

Total time = 1 days 23 hours 27 min 48 sec
FEC: 0 6
CRC: 4773 3
ES: 56 1762
SES: 32 0
UAS: 2400 2368
LOS: 3 0
LOF: 30 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 48 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 4768 0
ES: 11 0
SES: 11 0
UAS: 608 597
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 3
CRC: 4 3
ES: 3 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 27 min 48 sec
FEC: 0 6
CRC: 4773 3
ES: 36 224
SES: 32 0
UAS: 2326 2294
LOS: 3 0
LOF: 30 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 7 260
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 47 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0


HELLO HG612
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 21398 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60084 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60087 Kbps

Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:     21398 kbps     60084 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.8 dBm      12.3 dBm
 =========================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 5.9 21.3 30.8   N/A   N/A 11.3 25.2 38.6
Signal Attenuation(dB): 5.9 20.6 29.9   N/A   N/A 15.1 25.0 38.6
SNR Margin(dB): 7.2 7.0 7.0   N/A   N/A 6.1 6.2 6.2
TX Power(dBm): -4.7 -22.2 6.5   N/A   N/A 7.7 7.9 7.0

Good Bye HG612
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on May 29, 2019, 05:10:53 PM
If all goes well ReTx will be applied after 48 hours.
If every remains stable over the next week or so DLM may then lower the target SNRM.

Should hopefully give a nice increase in sync.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on June 12, 2019, 10:54:22 AM
If all goes well ReTx will be applied after 48 hours.
If every remains stable over the next week or so DLM may then lower the target SNRM.

Should hopefully give a nice increase in sync.

So, I have been on holiday for the last week.  Interestingly I was in Lithuania staying in an apartment in the old town, where the most basic service available is 100/100 FTTP - with a 2ms ping.  ::) .  It's a given there that WAN is provided over FTTP and Copper is reserved for older people with a landline phone.  Anyway, still no change.  No G.INP, no Interleaving, no resyncs now for 12 days.  Connected at 60084 with an attainable of 58716. I have suggested to Openreach that because the DSLAM is new, it could be that the firmware has not been updated to the version capable of implementing G.INP.  Sky tell me that it is a positive that none of these features have been applied as it shows that the line does not suffer from excess noise and therefore DLM has decided these technologies do not need to be applied. It seems that DLM is just not working at all - not increasing speed, decreasing it, adding or removing anything.  I am not sure where I can go from here because of course no one is taking me seriously - I've written a letter to Openreach on the formal track. 

In addition, there are discrepancies between which ISPs allow customers to order FTTC, even after 6 weeks of live.  e.g. Sky shows that FTTC can be ordered, but Vodafone receives messages from Openreach saying there is a capacity issue at the cabinet, which I know isn't the case.  This is a bummer because if I were to order a second FTTC connection, I would not want to have both lines running over the same ISP for resilience.

I cannot believe after 2 years of this I am still having to pick up snags with Openreach - beware anyone offered a CFP through Openreach - you will be a free Implementation Manager for them for a number of months, yet without any of the technical information you require to do the job well!
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on June 12, 2019, 11:08:58 AM
As pointed out previously it can in some cases take a number of weeks for G.INP to be applied (11 weeks for me).

I was the exact same as yourself being the 1st on a brand new cabinet. I thought perhaps something wasn't configured correctly and G.INP wouldn't be applied.

I would have hoped the DLM reset would have speeded up the process but looks like DLM is determined to make you wait.

Unfortunately the DLM is completely automated and there's zero the ISP can do.

The DSLAM doesn't need a firmware upgrade to do G.INP.
It just needs DLM to load that particular line profile.

If you send the command xdslcmd info --vendor with the HG612 it will return the DSLAM chipset/firmware in use.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on June 12, 2019, 11:12:03 AM
As pointed out previously it can in some cases take a number of weeks for G.INP to be applied (11 weeks for me).

I was the exact same as yourself being the 1st on a brand new cabinet. I thought perhaps something wasn't configured correctly and G.INP wouldn't be applied.

I would have hoped the DLM reset would have speeded up the process but looks like DLM is determined to make you wait.

Unfortunately the DLM is completely automated and there's zero the ISP can do.

The DSLAM doesn't need a firmware upgrade to do G.INP.
It just needs DLM to load that particular line profile.

If you send the command xdslcmd info --vendor with the HG612 it will return the DSLAM chipset/firmware in use.

I know, this is why I am trying to pursue Openreach, anyway here is the vendor output:

xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 21398 Kbps, Downstream rate = 58716 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60087 Kbps

ChipSet Vendor Id:      BDCM:0xa48c
ChipSet VersionNumber:  0xa48c
ChipSet SerialNumber:
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on June 12, 2019, 02:00:16 PM
Quote
I know, this is why I am trying to pursue Openreach

My advice would be to wait.
You've already had a DLM reset which would be about all OpenReach could do.
Another DLM reset simply restarts the clock on the wait for DLM to apply G.INP.

Your DSLAM firmware is the standard firmware/line card version in use.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: gt94sss2 on June 14, 2019, 11:07:38 PM
ChipSet Vendor Id:      BDCM:0xa48c
ChipSet VersionNumber:  0xa48c

There is what I understand different/newer version on some DSLAMS -   BDCM:0xb12d/v0xb12d - but that doesn't affect G.INP functionality

As j0hn says, I would just wait and leave the line alone.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on June 14, 2019, 11:11:00 PM
There is what I understand different/newer version on some DSLAMS -   BDCM:0xb12d/v0xb12d - but that doesn't affect G.INP functionality

As j0hn says, I would just wait and leave the line alone.

Thank you both. Yes, Iíve actually realised that fastpath is active (having read how to tell on other posts) and since Interleaving dropped ping times have dropped from 21 to 8ms, so happy to just leave the line at the moment - solid for 2 weeks now. Just worried if it drops for any other reason than DLM the speed will reduce to below attainable.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on July 01, 2019, 09:38:43 AM
!!G.INP ENABLED!! - Resync at 0139 on 1 July after an uptime of 32 days, thank you to everyone who said I need to be patient, didn't take as long as I thought, and I have gained 3MB on the line, from 60 to 63.  I suppose the last thing I need do to now is tweak down to a 3db target SNR as discussed a lot on here!

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 20891 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63256 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63870 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 6.3 6.8
Attn(dB): 16.5 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 6.8
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 243 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 10 16
S: 0.1216 0.3781
L: 16704 5374
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 51 0
TxQueue: 17 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 17 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 9846
OHFErr: 0 1
RS: 1277408 413388
RSCorr: 0 1
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 2490 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 24280 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 0 0
rtx_c: 0 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 63877 0
errFreeBits: 38961 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 4881537 0
Data Cells: 8598 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 11280 7769
SES: 45 0
UAS: 2438 2395
AS: 40

Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 63935.69 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 12/12 1/1

Total time = 1 days 12 hours 38 min 41 sec
FEC: 3441626 28381
CRC: 10662 2242
ES: 11280 7769
SES: 45 0
UAS: 2438 2395
LOS: 4 0
LOF: 35 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 41 sec
FEC: 0 1
CRC: 0 1
ES: 11 2
SES: 11 0
UAS: 38 27
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 5 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 4 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 38 min 41 sec
FEC: 0 1
CRC: 0 1
ES: 218 132
SES: 11 0
UAS: 38 27
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 5 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 359 206
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 39 sec
FEC: 0 1
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0


HELLO HG612
xdslcmd info --pbParams
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 20891 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63256 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 63870 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Discovery Phase (Initial) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
Medley Phase (Final) Band Plan
US: (7,32) (871,1205) (1972,2782)
DS: (33,859) (1216,1961) (2793,3959)
  VDSL Port Details   Upstream   Downstream
Attainable Net Data Rate:     20891 kbps     63256 kbps
Actual Aggregate Tx Power:        6.8 dBm      12.4 dBm
 =========================================================================================
  VDSL Band Status U0 U1 U2 U3 U4 D1 D2 D3
  Line Attenuation(dB): 6.0 21.6 31.2   N/A   N/A 11.4 25.6 39.1
Signal Attenuation(dB): 6.0 20.7 30.3   N/A   N/A 15.3 25.3 39.1
SNR Margin(dB): 6.9 6.8 6.8   N/A   N/A 6.3 6.3 6.3
TX Power(dBm): -4.8 -21.8 6.5   N/A   N/A 8.1 7.8 6.9

Good Bye HG612
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: RealAleMadrid on July 01, 2019, 10:00:47 AM
You don't need to do anything, DLM will reduce the SNRM down to 3dB if the line is deemed stable and has low error counts.
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: tubaman on July 01, 2019, 10:07:37 AM
You don't need to do anything, DLM will reduce the SNRM down to 3dB if the line is deemed stable and has low error counts.

Indeed, just leave it to do its thing - you should find it'll step down in 1dB steps if the line is stable enough.
 :)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on August 14, 2019, 08:29:08 PM
Hello All. Long time no speak. Since G.INP was applied on 1 July, the line was solid as a rock. In the last 3 days there has been a resync between 0200 and 0400am - this has had a positive effect on downstream as I have added another 2MB to my sync speed. Interestingly after the second resync I noticed that interleaving had been applied to the upstream too, but this only lasted 24 hours before being removed again. There was no resync this morning so I imagine DLM is now happy! Fancy taking a look and giving me a rough idea what DLM has been experimenting with?

1 July
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/102308fe4a617edad59996dbc8c75d86.jpg)

Morning 1
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/7add3e636592f815321154ec97621f79.jpg)

Morning 2
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/3d3e5b7df9a305639dc0a6bd5db9dc2c.jpg)

Morning 3
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190814/3e39bf6610e570cb2e5beaa8a03b9a70.jpg)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: gt94sss2 on August 14, 2019, 11:10:20 PM
The target SNR for a new line is around 6.3

Once g.inp is active, if the downstream sync speed is not reaching the maximum you have paid for, DLM will start lowering the downstream SNR in 1dB increments over several days to 3.x assuming your line remains stable - to boost your sync speed.

In your screenshots, itís moved from 6.3 on 1 July to 5.2 on morning one
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: mentaltom on August 14, 2019, 11:14:20 PM
Thank you. I hope it keeps dropping the target SNR then because the line isnít unstable. I was more curious as to why it whacked upstream interleaving on for one day and then reverted the change ;)
Title: Re: Cabinet 25 DSLAM Installation
Post by: j0hn on August 15, 2019, 12:40:43 AM
That's G.INP on the upstream.

It's off by default and only applied if certain error thresholds are met.
When it isn't needed any more it is removed.

I've had upstream G.INP come and go a few times, usually after lots of upstream ES.