Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: xreyuk on January 15, 2019, 05:56:16 PM

Title: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: xreyuk on January 15, 2019, 05:56:16 PM
Hi All,

I am running a HG612 unlocked in bridge mode on my Plusnet broadband, with a Netgear R7800.

I have had to enable QoS on my router, and limit the download/upload speeds as I am suffering from serious bufferbloat on the upload (and a little on the download), and it is making gaming an absolute nightmare if I don't. On tests I am seeing over 900ms of bufferbloat on the upload, and 200ms on the download (wired or wireless)

I have connected using a laptop directly to the HG612 and connected that way and still see the exact same bufferbloat results.

Are there any settings I can change on the HG612 to help with the bufferbloat?

*edit*

I should add that this is a recent problem, until about 1-2 months ago I had no problems with gaming whatsoever, now it's basically unusable.
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: hacktrix2006 on January 15, 2019, 06:11:00 PM
Have you tried another modem, I am also having bufferbloat issues myself. Is it on the Downstream?

I have tried other modems but have same issues.

Your not on a BT backhual are you?
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: ejs on January 15, 2019, 06:18:42 PM
I don't think the size or management of any buffers within a HG612 will have changed in the last 1-2 months. The last firmware for the HG612 is about 5 years old, therefore the behaviour of the device should have remained constant after its last firmware. I don't think the HG612 is the problem.
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: xreyuk on January 15, 2019, 06:20:03 PM
I'm on plusnet backhaul.

Interestingly enough I was just playing around in the HG612 settings. Under the QoS menu, I enabled QoS (even though there are no settings set, just enabled it) and immediately my bufferbloat improved. My bufferbloat was medium on the downstream, but catastrophic on the upstream.

I think I unchecked this box a couple of months ago, which would tie in.

I am also going to try another modem just in case, as I do have a spare HG612.
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: hacktrix2006 on January 15, 2019, 06:31:09 PM
Plusnet = BT backhual

My network hadn't changed for a while after the Zyxel modem went into place and just after Christmas I was hit with Bufferbloat heavy on down and upstream was getting 120ms to UK gaming servers before it spikes to 999ms. ISP I am with has been slowing the connection ever since to try and get over it, issue even happens with their modem hence why I asked about backhaul as to me it behaves like congestion but it's deadly in online games.

Sent from my LLD-L31 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: j0hn on January 15, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
I'm on plusnet backhaul.

They don't have their own backhaul.

Plusnet = BT backhual

BT Wholesale backhaul.
Which is used by dozens of other ISP's.

Plusnets network isn't the same as the BT network.

On topic, I ran the HG612 with QoS disabled for a couple years without issue.
Never known it to cause the issues you describe.
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: ejs on January 15, 2019, 06:46:29 PM
If it behaves like congestion, do you think that it might be congestion rather than bufferbloat? Bufferbloat is a software design issue, it's not really something that suddenly turns up one day without any software having been changed.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if a test for bufferbloat gave a poor result (high bufferbloat) on a connection suffering from congestion.
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: d2d4j on January 15, 2019, 08:11:54 PM
Hi

We have many connections using hg612 without issue on bufferbloat

We always turn off QoS on hg612 for the additional upload speed

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: xreyuk on January 15, 2019, 08:48:56 PM
Really strange Iíve ran 5 tests at various times since this post. With QoS on and then QoS off. It doesnít really affect the download but seriously affects the upload.

Turning the QoS option off, I see sustained bufferbloat between 800-1000ms. Turn the option back on, it jumps to about 200ms immediately and then backs off to about 50ms.

All of these tests were ran by plugging a device directly into the modem, then re-ran through the router and results were consistent.

Maybe my modem is just starting to give out, Iíll try the other one.


Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: ejs on January 15, 2019, 09:07:16 PM
Are you actually using it in bridge mode?
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: j0hn on January 15, 2019, 09:13:37 PM
That's a very odd result and not at all consistent with my (and others) experience of QoS on the HG612.

The QoS on the HG612 works very different to that on routers as the HG612 isn't in control of the PPP/IP at all.
It's nowhere near as clever.
I believe it simply reserves a small amount of upload bandwidth when enabled.

I always advise users to disable QoS on the HG612 as it sees an immediate improvement in upload throughput with zero (in my experience) consequences.

Could you run a speed test on ThinkBroadband with QoS on and again with QoS off and share the results here.

https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest
Title: Re: HG612 Serious Bufferbloat
Post by: aesmith on January 17, 2019, 11:36:07 AM
When I was on Plusnet I had latency issues sometimes that were triggered by uploads of sometimes only around 100k (bits per second).  There was never any explanation or even acknowledgement of this from Plusnet.