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Computers & Hardware => Networking => Topic started by: michty_me on December 13, 2018, 08:50:05 PM

Title: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 13, 2018, 08:50:05 PM
Evening all,

I'm in the need of buying a new router.
You've maybe seen in other threads I've been looking at the Synology RT2600AC unit to handle the routing and WiFi but as chenks pointed out, They are fairly new to the market so may not be the best option.
I've looked at several Netgears, Asus, TP-Link, Linksys etc but after previous experiences with a couple of the manufacturers, I don't really feel like spending the sort of money they demand for a half hearted unit.

I've asked in quite a few places but pretty much every where suggests to get a Ubiquiti unit either the USG or Edgerouter X. Price wise, It appears you get a bigger bang for your buck compared to the big names.
It seems a little daunting to me actually as I probably wouldn't use 80% of the features and I would say possibly at the lower end of networking knowledge really, Although I'm always willing to learn.

My concern of going this route is that it may be too much for me in configuring etc but in terms of reliability, It is something I would like but simpler the better.
Is one easier to configure than the other?
I believe the ER-X uses a web interface for setting up rather than the cloud controller. I would probably prefer that.
I've noticed some saying to avoid the USG also as it it a couple years old in the hardware department and beefier hardware in the ER-X units.

Whats your thoughts on my concerns? What's your experiences with the devices?

Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 13, 2018, 09:33:18 PM
for a home user it's probably better to go with the ER-X, as you get a router and a 4 port switch combined
with the USB it's just a router and nothing else.

the USG is part of the Unifi product line, wheras the ER-X is part of the EdgeOS line.
the EdgeOS line has been around much longer.

the USG is the more modern appliance as part of the Unifi line. for a home user you if you compare the USG and ER-X you're not going to see a lot of difference. the EdgeOS devices are more mature, but not necessarily more reliable or beefier than the Unifi line.

i went from knowing nothing about the ER-X to having one that does my routing, firewall, VPN, VLANs, DynDNS and pretty much everything else apart from controlling the AP configuration.

the Ubiquiti forums are very good no matter which product line you go down.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 13, 2018, 10:34:08 PM
Thanks once again checks for taking the time to explain a bit of it all to me in this thread and my previous one.

Are you using one of the unifi access points too?

I've been having a look through the demo GUI for both devices but not sure how recent these demos are. To be honest, the USG does look more glitzy in the demos but as you say, yes a switch and router combo would be ideal.

I gather you have good knowledge of networking and manage to get around the system easily enough?

Do you know of anyone that uses the ER-X and a more mainstream AP or mesh system connected to it?
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 14, 2018, 08:30:00 AM
I use an ER-X and a unifi ap ac-lite.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 09:12:16 AM
I use an ER-X and a unifi ap ac-lite.

I know many say that if you have a USG, all the config is setup in one window.
How is it done when using the edgerouter?
Do you just use the unifi controller?
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 14, 2018, 09:27:57 AM
unifi controller is just for the unifi line of products.
the ER-X has it's own web UI on the device (just like you would with any other router).

this my current setup

(https://i.ibb.co/stgdSps/Drawing1.jpg)
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
Sorry, perhaps I confused you. I meant do you use the controller for the AP but seeing as you say it's only for the unifi line of products I'll assume that as a yes.

Setup looks good, my setup would be even simpler
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: shambly on December 14, 2018, 10:01:43 AM
I use an EdgeRouter PoE and two UniFi AC AP Lite.

I had to delve into the command line via telnet to set the ER up as I wanted. You can do a lot in the GUI web interface but not everything. (I run a zone-based firewall with a lot of inter internal network rules, and a number of different VLANs to keep trusted and untrusted devices separated. (I don't trust my (Chinese original) CCTV cameras, for example, so only allow them access to a time server on the internet and to the server that stores their video; nothing else; VOIP is separate, as are untrusted IoT devices (heating controller, solar panel monitor, ...)

The nice thing about the USG is that it is fully integrated with the UniFi controller so you can manage everything in a single GUI screen. But the USG GUI allows you to do less complex things than the ER GUI. However, If you've got straight-forward requirements, i'd go with the USG.

Beware though, if you need/want to run Deep Packet Inspection, or traffic policies, you are likely going to want beefier hardware (if you have fast broadband). An ER-4 comes to mind (and is on my upgrade list, together with a 3rd AP).

I have 150/30 internet, and even with a simple drop-tail traffic policy (which crept into my configuration during a firmware update) I wasn't achieving full line rate.

I've found the ER and UniFi units to be extremely reliable once configured, only being rebooted for periodic firmware updates.

Simon
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 10:48:38 AM
Hi Simon, Thanks for your input.
To be fair, I highly doubt I would be venturing into anything like that. It would be a setup of the basics with an access point and leave it really so the simpler the better. I'm not a tinkerer and would probably only venture into it if something was up (For now at least anyway)

This is why I wondered if it was overkill for me but when you look at the price point of it compared to high end CPE stuff, I guess its better value even if you don't 80% of the features.

Edit to add:
I initially wanted to go with a USG but as chenks pointed out, The USG is router only where as the ER line includes a switch. Plus, If I were to run more than one PoE device without an injector I would need the extra ports for this. Are there any rumours of newer USG models appearing?

Looking toward the future, I've read that the USG struggles with faster internet connections. Is there a lot of truth in that?
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 14, 2018, 11:30:59 AM
the USG you are looking at is the basic USG which is just that, a router/gateway.
there are higher spec USG's but those are most certainly not for home environments.
eg https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-routing/unifi-security-gateway-pro-4/

in what way have you read that the USG struggles with fast internet connections?
i'd be surprised there is anything your home is being provided with that it would struggle with.

if you were going full unifi you'd be doing this (which is overkill IMO)
USG
Unifi Switch US-8 150W
Unifi AP (model depending on local requirements).
CloudKey (or local windows/linux system running unifi controller).

and ER-X and an AP will suffice, and you just add an extra any-brand switch when required.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 11:49:14 AM
the USG you are looking at is the basic USG which is just that, a router/gateway.
there are higher spec USG's but those are most certainly not for home environments.
eg https://www.ubnt.com/unifi-routing/unifi-security-gateway-pro-4/

in what way have you read that the USG struggles with fast internet connections?
i'd be surprised there is anything your home is being provided with that it would struggle with.

if you were going full unifi you'd be doing this (which is overkill IMO)
USG
Unifi Switch US-8 150W
Unifi AP (model depending on local requirements).
CloudKey (or local windows/linux system running unifi controller).

and ER-X and an AP will suffice, and you just add an extra any-brand switch when required.

Yup, It would have been the basic one I would have looked at.
I seem to remember reading a few posts from people stating the throughput would drop right down once a couple of settings were enabled (I can't remember which ones, Possibly QoS with something else).
You are quite correct that it wouldn't really effect my line just now anyway, More of a curiosity thing than anything.
I'm pretty certain I will be getting an ER-X SFP with one AC-lite unit for now and see how I fair with that.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 14, 2018, 11:56:27 AM
the issue with QOS is that people are not understanding the method that ubiquiti use for QOS.
their version of QOS siphons off a portion of your bandwidth to ensure that it never saturates out, thus it "seems" like the throughput has dropped but it's only doing that to ensure QOS works.

enabling deep packet inspection will drop the throughput a little, as the work involved to do that will push the base models a but, but for a home user i'd doubt DPI will give any benefit. those are more geared towards enterprise.

remeber with the ER-X you have power that using POE (via eth0) and the power the AP via POE via eth4). the ER-X doesn't come with a POE injector but the APs do.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 12:28:05 PM
Ah ok, that's fair enough regarding the QoS. Makes sense now!!
I wouldn't use dpi anyway as you stated.

Reason I was looking at the SFP version was for if I wanted to power other items later without having to have a local supply.

Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: shambly on December 14, 2018, 02:35:40 PM

The QoS WAS brilliant when I only had 5/1 and I used it to reserve some of the up and down stream for VOIP to prevent video streaming from disrupting phone calls. Just not needed now, and wouldn't keep up at 150/30 without something like the ER-4 instead of the ER PoE.

I don't actually use the PoE in my ER as I have a toughswitch 8 for that purpose, and also an edgeswitch 24-Lite. The toughswitch switch feeds my 2 AP, my 2 CCTV cameras, and a VOIP phone. (Got rid of _alot_ of PSUs). The edgeswitch feeds everything non PoE and breaks out the trunk into the various internal networks per port.

I run a VLAN trunk from the ER to the edgeswitch and on to the toughswitch so only use two ports of the ER (WLAN, and trunk). I used to use a third to access the admin interface of my FTTC modem, but am now on FTTP and there is nothing to access.

The USG to switch ES-8 to UniFi AP would be a good configuration. I just fire up (and update) the Unifi controller software on my MAC when I want to do firmware updates; it doesn't need to be running all the time.

I went the other way - using edgeswitch OS gear - and the UniFi controller screens are unsatisfying unpopulated compared with if i'd gone USG instead. But to be honest, once it is all configured, you'd rarely look at it anyway...
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 03:34:27 PM
That's the reason I want PoE so I can do away with power supplies. I assume as chenks said, It would need to have a PoE supply rather than a wall socket to the Edgerouter to power extra items?

Maybe I would be better off getting a PoE switch and just a standard ER-X model. I have a thought in my head that I would maybe like to add some CCTV cameras to look over the house as I work away from home often, Considering putting WiFi down into the garage and possibly another AP in the house depending how one covers the house.

Oh me, So many choices!!
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 14, 2018, 04:06:43 PM
as i said though (a few times now), with ubiquiti kit you have to make sure you match the correct POE variant.
some devices are 24V poe and some are 802.3af, use the wrong one and you may blow the device.

the ER-X has POE 24v passthru, so the ER-X is powered via an POE injector and the AP is powered via POE from the ER-X.
this is fine as i only have one device needing POE power (the AP).

as a compariosn, the Unifi US-8 60W switch has 802.3af poe only, so couldn't power my AP AC-Lite via POE as it needs 24V POE.
the US-8 150W, however, would be able to power the AC-Lite via POE as it support 24v and 802.3af POE.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 04:13:11 PM
Yup, It has been registered and I've slowly been looking through the items available and what 'standard' they use!

Thanks for clearing it up though. Makes much more sense now.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: shambly on December 14, 2018, 05:39:12 PM
The 24 V passive / 48V "proper" PoE dilemma is why I have a toughswitch (8 port version) as it is configurable on a per port basis to 24V or 48V.

Good for mixing UniFi and other equipment...

My AP AC Lites are 24V only but I believe the newer versions can support 802.3af as well.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 14, 2018, 05:56:03 PM
Very handy to know. Thank you both very much for the info!
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 19, 2018, 10:00:08 AM
That's me ordered an Edgerouter X SFP along with an AC lite AP.
As much as I would like the flashing lights and pretty pictures of the full Unifi setup, I can't quite justify spending an extra 150+ to get it with a basic switch (Or add another 100 for the toughswitch which would have been the route I would have wanted)

Thank you both for your input.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 19, 2018, 10:56:59 AM
when you get it.
use the POE injector that comes with the AP to power the ER-X (via eth0), and then enable POE pass-thru on eth4 and connect the AP to eth4.
then depending on your ISP, connect the modem ethernet cable to the POE injector, run the setup wizard on the ER-X for whatever setup you want.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 19, 2018, 11:26:28 AM
I think the SFP variant is slightly different.
I've not seen any documentation to show that it can be powered via the eth0 port.
From my understanding, it comes with a 24v 2.5A wall socket for its power source.
I've still got some cable to run yet but hoping to have that done by this week then I'll get stuck in.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on December 19, 2018, 11:42:17 AM
the ER-X i have comes with an external power source too, but has the option to power it via POE.

as it looks like the ER-X SPF has 5 passive POE ports, so doesn't have the pass-thru option like the ER-X does.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 19, 2018, 11:51:30 AM
the ER-X i have comes with an external power source too, but has the option to power it via POE.

as it looks like the ER-X SPF has 5 passive POE ports, so doesn't have the pass-thru option like the ER-X does.

Yes, it looks that way. Hopefully the power bricks are sturdy enough.
I'm looking forward to getting stuck in now though.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on December 21, 2018, 05:32:31 PM
Got my kit today!!
Didn't expect it to be so small!!
Just a few more cables to run and wire in a couple of sockets in the cupboard and I'll be up and running.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: burakkucat on December 21, 2018, 06:01:36 PM
  :) 
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 24, 2019, 07:57:16 PM
Back again folks. It appears I'm having a bit of an issue getting connected.

I've ran the basic setup wizard, selected pppoe and input my zen username and password. I've set the vlan to 101 (also tried 1, 2, 10 and 100) but none seem to work.

My Zyxel is in bridge mode and it appears that the IP address for this and the Edgerouter are the same (192.168.1.1) so I assume this is my problem. I'm just a little unsure on where to change it?
In the lan port drop down I changed the address in there to 192.168.1.254 but I don't believe this is 100% correct.

I've clearly missed something but I'm feeling a bit slow today.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: j0hn on January 24, 2019, 08:04:51 PM
Try tagging the vlan 101 on the zyxel bridge, not the router.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 24, 2019, 08:24:41 PM
It looks like it is already is.
Tried removing vlan from the Edgerouter but no joy.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: burakkucat on January 24, 2019, 08:47:30 PM
Tried removing vlan from the Edgerouter but no joy.

There must be some means of restoring the Edgerouter to its factory, unconfigured state.

As j0hn has already mentioned, the VLAN (tagged 101), should be configured on the modem . . . your ZyXEL VMGnnn-B10x device.

If two devices on a network are assigned the same IP address then havoc and mischief will occur. Either reconfigure the ZyXEL or the Ubiquiti device to have a 192.168.1.254 IPv4 address, leaving the other device with the default 192.168.1.1 IPv4 address.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 24, 2019, 08:59:41 PM
I have tried resetting to the factory state.
I've changed the Edgerouter to 192.168.1.2 (also tried 254)
Vlan tag 101 remains configured in my modem and have tried with and without it on the Edgerouter.
I think I'm making some head way. As I notice my IP address has appeared at the bottom pppoe info now.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 24, 2019, 09:10:12 PM
Ok, Think I have sussed it now!!
I think part of the issue was with me and plugging my extension cat5e for testing. I was using the two wire method for stats on the Zyxel and used the port which looking in the Zyxel menus was configured for LAN and not WAN.
Factory reset and setup again and away it went!!
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: burakkucat on January 24, 2019, 09:28:01 PM
Take a moment, pause and then think about the concept of a VLAN (a Virtual LAN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_LAN)).

As it is being used, it has two end-points. The first end-point is way "north" ("upstream") of you. The second end-point should be defined in your modem. No other equipment should know (or needs to know) about that VLAN, with Ethernet frames tagged 101.

Looking a little deeper, but still simplistically, the port on your ZyXEL device (the LAN1 port) is a portal for the ingress and egress of Ethernet frames. (Your local device, producing and consuming Ethernet frames, is the Ubiquiti Edgerouter.) Those frames (with a 101 tag) are then transferred over the VDSL2 (ITU-T G.993.2) link to the cabinet based DSLAM and, keeping things simple, further "north" ("upstream") to the other end-point of the VLAN, where the tags are then removed, leaving the stream of Ethernet frames to be consumed and produced by a device (logically the mirror image of your Edgerouter) in ISP/CP land.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: burakkucat on January 24, 2019, 09:33:52 PM
I was using the two wire method for stats on the Zyxel and used the port which looking in the Zyxel menus was configured for LAN and not WAN.

Ah, yes. Inadvertently muddling those two ports would cause precisely the problem you reported. Congratulations on spotting the error and resolving the problem.  :)
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 24, 2019, 09:42:50 PM
I most likely wouldn't have thought about it if it weren't for you kind people getting me to check the VLAN tag. It was then I noticed the WAN disabled on port 4 when I went through further menus. So thank you both for a shove in the right direction.

Also thank you for the information on VLAN's. I think tomorrows task is to set one up on the Zyxel so that I can get my stats via one cable (I was meant to do this when I set it up initially but I subsequently forgot all about it.

Chenks and Shambly, kudos for the recommendation of equipment. Saved me a small fortune on equipment I would have bought. Turns out I do get full signal through the whole houseusing one AC-lite unit. I haven't even popped it through the ceiling, It is just laying on the plasterboard in the loft pointing down at present!!
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on January 25, 2019, 03:10:37 PM
use the unifi controller software to set up the AP just the way you want.
i have 2 main SSIDS..

1 main (5GHz and 2.4GHz combined) for main devices (192.168.1.x)
1 guest wifi (5Ghz only) with full device isolation (192.168.2.x), which is bandwidth limited on both down and up.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 25, 2019, 04:55:30 PM
That is exactly what I shall do when I get it all finalised.
I'm still to have a good play about with it but hopefully soon I shall be able to do that.

Question... I've heard of people having issues with Sonos equipment on the Unifi AP's. I believe many got round it by splitting the 2.4 and 5Ghz. Have you heard of anything like this?
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: chenks on January 25, 2019, 06:13:26 PM
don't have any sonos so wouldn't know, but it's easy enough to create multiple SSIDs and enable/disable each radio as required.

i currently have a "test" SSID that is on 2.4GHz only.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on January 25, 2019, 06:55:18 PM
Ok, no problem. I'll play about with it. I'm sure I'll pick it up quick enough!!
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on February 08, 2019, 08:06:07 PM
Evening all,

Looking for some assistance again with this Edgerouter.
All my sockets are done and master where it needs to be.

However, now it's all hooked up, I'm getting no internet access again.
The only cables I removed were the Wan (eth0) and switch (eth1).
It's giving me my IP address but no access to the internet. I've tried my pc directly into eth1 but nothing.
It feels seems like it's locked down although I've tried setting it up with no firewall and still the same issue.

I've also made a direct connection from my modem to my pc and it seems fine so it's definitely Edgerouter related.
I've been at this since 5pm and I'm starting to get a bit fed up haha.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on February 08, 2019, 08:24:15 PM
Never mind, Think that's it sorted now!!
I went through every setting and for some reason it has decided to use itself as the DNS server which was odd. I've no idea why it would change by itself!!
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: peggs on February 09, 2019, 11:50:15 AM
Hi all,

Is there a classifieds section on Kitz?
I have my whole UniFi setup for sale

USG 3P
8 port PoE
24 port non PoE
AC Pro AP
Controller
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: tiffy on February 09, 2019, 12:03:30 PM
You could try here:

Broadware Hardware Swap Shop (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/board,52.0.html)

May need to check with a mod. if classification as "Broadband Hardware" is permissable.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: peggs on February 09, 2019, 01:43:18 PM
Thanks Tiffy

I had a look and need 20+ posts and member status so will have to wait a little bit :)
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on February 09, 2019, 06:02:35 PM
Thanks Tiffy

I had a look and need 20+ posts and member status so will have to wait a little bit :)

Peggs, If you are willing to split, I may take the USG off you.
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: Westie on February 09, 2019, 10:02:50 PM
@peggs

PM sent
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: peggs on February 10, 2019, 02:45:42 PM
Hi,

Decided to hold onto it for a bit longer. Had whole Zyxel setup delivered, but performance is worst that Unifi

Thansks
@peggs

PM sent
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on February 13, 2019, 12:43:12 PM
I've got another oddity I've found on my ER.
I opened the GUI today to rename what was on each Ethernet port and noticed eth4 Poe is set to off although my ac-lite is currently powered from it and discoverable in the controller software.
Must be a bug in guessing?
Title: Re: Ubiquiti USG/ER users
Post by: michty_me on February 13, 2019, 05:08:39 PM
I thought it could have possibly been a browser issue as I remember reading posts on the forum a while ago where users reported issues with Firefox or chrome.
I renamed it anyway where it then disconnected and I could switch the PoE back on.