Kitz Forum
Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: sevenlayermuddle on November 07, 2018, 11:29:20 PM
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I tried to use the iPlayer App on my Panasonic Firefox OS TV tonight. Last night it worked fine, but seems it now requires sign in. :(
I cannot sign in as I do not have an account, and I don’t want to create an account as it requires me to think up a new password, and my brain is full. It will also undoubtably require me to provide BBC with copious personal data, which carries the risk/certainty that their database will one day be breached. :no:
Curiously, the iPlayer App on my Apple TV continues to work without signing in, so that is what I shall use for time being. :)
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/latest-news/account-signin
Can't remember what info I had to enter when I signed up but when I look at my personal details there is my display name, password, email address, postcode, gender and year of birth.
You'll either have to sign up or stop using iPlayer ;)
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You'll either have to sign up or stop using iPlayer ;)
Or, for the time being, use the iPlayer App on my Apple TV. :P
I might weaken for iPlayer, but I don’t use ITV or Channel 4 catch up for the same reason - they both require signin, and I’ve always refused to register. It’s not that hard to remember to record stuff off air on PVR (/MythTV), and you get the benefit of much better picture quality as well 5.1 sound if they can be bothered to broadcast it (iPlayer is just stereo).
Channel 5 app on my TV still works without sign in and amazingly, seems to skip all advert breaks. :)
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SLM, you seen to have a double canopy paranoidchute! :D
Going a bit OT, IPlayer IMHO is by far the best of the bunch with its library, and it has subtitles.
The rest are creaky and without subtitles. Annoying! >:(
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Obviously, they want sign in to make life hard for license dodgers. That annoys me as I am not a license dodger. It annoys me in the same way that "traffic calming" chicanes annoy me, as they are in general aimed at speed reduction, whereas I have always tried not to break speed limits.
I love some of the excuse they have come up with....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/how-to-guides/sign-in/account-signin
We need to understand more on what people are watching to ensure we are providing something for everyone. Up until now we could only tell how many people used BBC iPlayer, but having more data like age, gender and location will ensure we’re better serving all our audience.
So, after I finish watching a "boy's" programme, such as building a rocket engine or going somewhere on a train, BBC think I'm going to sign out so that other half can sign in again before watching a "girl's" programme, such as costume dramas? If we had kids in the house, we'd both have to sign out, so the kids could sign in before watching Andy Pandy or whatever? :D
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This is the one I found odd, especially the odd wording, why would they check with TV licensing if I'm using iPlayer???
We share some of your personal information with TV Licensing to check if you are using BBC iPlayer and to keep their database up to date.
They don't have my full address, so how can they check if we have a licence unless relying on matching the email address to one used for the TV licence.
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This is the one I found odd, especially the odd wording, why would they check with TV licensing if I'm using iPlayer???
They don't have my full address, so how can they check if we have a licence unless relying on matching the email address to one used for the TV licence.
well that one is quite simple.
most people pay for TVL online now, and they'll have an email address of that person and the address of that person
they can rule out most people by matching on that email address.
now that iplayer requires a TVL, the login requirement was always going to be the first stage of it.
they already prompt to ask that you have one before playback of anything.
the next stage will be address matching via login where they require you to enter your full details and/or require you to enter your TVL number.
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As Chenks says. And I would imagine they’re probably empowered to demand your ISP disclose the address when they think you might be a dodger, based on some sort of big-brother database or maybe some heuristic algorithm. The email would then be useful for sending you harassment letters, demanding that you prove your innocence.
But I’m just guessing. :-\
It’s already a sore point as I have in the past been targetted by their (paper) harassment letters, basically when I buy new TVs, and the retailer tells BBC. Problem for me is that for historic reasons, other half has always paid tv licence. Their database seems a bit sexist, and to flag that scenario... male buys a new TV whereas licence holder is female, as “suspicious”. I guess they probably think it’ must be a shared house. It can be surprisingly hard to ignore the harassment letters or make them stop. >:(
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Load of nonsense. They don't do ANY checks at the moment .
I haven't ever had a TV license, and I had to register with iPlayer on my TV about a year ago. They don't run any checks, registering with a valid email is enough.
I've no doubt this is being done with a future TV licence/iPlayer clamp down in mind. No idea how this would be verified though.
Curiously, the iPlayer App on my Apple TV continues to work without signing in, so that is what I shall use for time being. :)
Last I checked you couldn't sign in on iPlayer on Apple TV, which is a huge deal to me.
IPlayer saves all my favourites across all my devices, even allowing me to resume watching a programme from the same point on a different device.
I use iPlayer beta which also has multiple users per account, so individual lists for me and my partner.
This may be the route they go down with verifying TV licenses, with a single login per TV license/household with the ability to add multiple users.
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It can be surprisingly hard to ignore the harassment letters or make them stop.
This is still a sore point for me. After my sister died I notified TV Licensing, and told them that her home was empty and would remain so until it was sold. They acknowledged this notification. Two months later I received what amounted to a final demand for payment of the licence fee - it was edged in red and written in highly threatening terms. They said that if the fee was not paid they would visit the home to investigate, and they would break in if there was nobody present to let them in.
I'm sure you can imagine how I felt about this. :mad:
TV Licensing is a vile organisation with far too much power.
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No idea how this would be verified though.
very easily,
enter your valid current licence number when you log in.
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They said that if the fee was not paid they would visit the home to investigate, and they would break in if there was nobody present to let them in.
you should have told them to go ahead and investigate.
however i'd be surprised that the wording was "break in if there was nobody present to let them in". they have no legal powers of entry unless with a court order, so i'd assume you're either para-phrasing or mis-read the wording.
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i also fully expect that paytv providers will soon be required to pass on details to TVL.
if you're paying for TV then you should have a TVL. that'll be a quick way of catching those that don't have a TVL (similar to how it used to be a requirement to gather details at the point of buying a TV).
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I had to sign in a couple of weeks ago.
We share some of your personal information with TV Licensing to check if you are using BBC iPlayer and to keep their database up to date.
I don't see how they can do that with the amount of info that I supplied. NTVRLO don't even have an email address for me.
The info I supplied was minimal. email address, create a username, post code and confirm I was over 18. The code came up on my Galaxy tab (not via email) and I then entered the code into my TV.
The signing in thing is a bit of a PITA - I should imagine more so for those with multiple users... but in the grand scheme of things I don't really mind because I get an awful lot of enjoyment out of i player.
The content is ad free which compared to the likes of 4OD etc I find annoying how when trying to FF or rewind you are still forced to stop & watch the ads at certain intervals. i-player is one of my main sources of watching tv as I'm a big fan of their Science and Nature section and things like Blue Planet all have to be paid for somehow. I don't watch the Soaps but I do also watch a lot of documentaries such as panorama and love the access to Horizon's archives which occasionally throw up some classic gems. Oh and I also watch the sci-fi stuff such as Dr Who and I'm currently going through the Dr Who archives for some episodes which I missed years ago :D
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It is debatable, whether BBC conteht is free of ads.
When iPlayer was last working for me, a couple of days ago, I selected some show only to find they had introduced 30 secs of promotional garbage for other rubbish, before start of the show. I was allowed to skip, but my threshold of irritation had already been breached.
Also, after watching some other show, it got “collapsed” into a small window during rollout of credits, filling the screen with adverts for other shows. Live TV BBC is even worse, when an announcer starts yapping during the credits, advertising other programmes, when I might actually be enjoying the fade-out music. :(
I do agree though that 4od is worse. I remember trying it briefly a while ago, before sign in was required, and instantly dismissing it as useless, as it was litered with huge long advert breaks that I couldn’t skip. :(
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On our 'Amazon Fire stick' we have the option to Sign in or press the 'Back' button on the controller to watch without signing in . ;D
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It is debatable, whether BBC conteht is free of ads.
i think it's fair to say it has "promotional content", but it's not "paid advertisement" and general consensus would be that an advert would involve payment of some kind in return for showing the advert.
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You get most of that rubbish on BBC Terrestrial TV anyway so there's not much difference.
Stuart
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On our 'Amazon Fire stick' we have the option to Sign in or press the 'Back' button on the controller to watch without signing in . ;D
Enjoy it while it lasts. That was how my Panasonic TV App behaved too, until yesterday. :P
I would not be surprised to find that the iPlayer App on the TV had silently updated itself, to a version that needs sign in. The Panasonic Firefox OS pretty much forces you to let it update Apps on its own whim. :(
I don't know if you have any control over updates on a Fire Stick but if you can, it may be worth making sure the iPlayer App does not get updated...
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Maybe I am not remembering correctly but I had a feeling I was asked to update the iPlayer recently on one of my devices because the current one was not supported so if I do remember that correctly you may well find you have no choice.
Stuart
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Thought I’d sussed it.
After selecting Sign In, the App gave me a code, instructing me go to a computer and register that code.
But underneath, there was another option... “No mobile or Computer”. Looked promising. :fingers:
A phone number was then presented, that would issue me a “guest” sign in code. Better still, the Guest sign in would be stripped of all the “personalised features”, that I’m sure will just annoy me. :yay:
So I phoned the number and yeah, there’s a catch, the guest code is only valid for one day! I’m guessing that this interface probably pays lip-service to some clause in the BBC charter that prevents them from restricting iPlayer to those with computers, without actually having any intentions of being useful. :(
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On our 'Amazon Fire stick' we have the option to Sign in or press the 'Back' button on the controller to watch without signing in . ;D
I could do that that until just over a week ago. I held out as long as I could.
Within the past couple of weeks, both my Smart TV and the firesticks will no longer allow you to bypass the login.
the guest code is only valid for one day!
:(
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Signed for it myself last week ..... I need my fix of 'Only Connect' (The hardest quiz show on TV). :)
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(The hardest quiz show on TV). :)
That doesn’t sell it to me, BS. I need easy quizes. :D
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:lol:
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I need easy quizes. :D
ditto :lol:
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Tonight, I’ve been playing some more with the Apple TV App. I’d never given it any attention as the Panasonic TV already had an App. But actually, I think I really like the Apple TV version. Not only does it not require sign in, or even (apparently) support sign in, but the UI is infinitely better than the UI on my TV ever was. :)
With the Panasonic App, I never did figure out how to just stop playing a programme, exiting back to the previous page, so I could select something similar. It always went all the way out to effectively, the entry page, requiring me to reselect from the menu then wade through several screens of unwanted icons, just to get back where I’d been.
Apple TV App on the other hand does the intuitive thing, gracefully unwinding back through the selections I have made. So it is easy to just go back one level and choose (say) a different archive ‘Horizon’.
Long may it last, but I should probably prepare myself for disappointment. :(
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I could do that that until just over a week ago. I held out as long as I could.
Within the past couple of weeks, both my Smart TV and the firesticks will no longer allow you to bypass the login.
:(
Watched 'Countryfile' and had to sign in on Firestick >:(
Edit, just tried iplayer on my iphone4, the app has not worked for some time but now can still use Safari without any sign in ;)
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Good news is, I have kind of adapted to using iPlayer on the Apple TV App. It works, at least my current version. And still no need to register, or to sign in. :yay:
Less good news, I found the old “Blackadder Goes Forth”, we watched it tonight. Very funny it was too. And at just over 29 minutes duration, no room for advertisements you might think, at least by the standards of its day, clearly targetting a precise 30 minute slot. Nope. As the credits unrolled, and as I enjoyed the classic music, suddenly a yapping voice butted in and dominated, encouraging me to watch something else. I have blotted out the details.
Why would the BBC thing that such an interruption, “yap yap yap”, just when I am enjoying such a classic, would inspire me to ever watch iPlayer again let alone register my details and comprmise my privacy? >:(
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interesting turn of events on this one.
i don't have a tv licence at my new property - no requirement for one under the current terms of the licence.
i registered the fact on the TVL website that none was required and it was processed as normal. this was some 3-4 months ago.
yesterday i receive an email saying "our records show you've been using BBC iPlayer. but your address is registered as no licence required"
You need to be covered by a TV Licence to watch BBC programmes on iPlayer, or to watch or record live TV on any channel, no matter what device you use.
However, you’ve previously told us that you don’t need a TV Licence at 0/1, with postcode ending 9AD.
Our records show you've used BBC iPlayer on a number of occasions over recent weeks.
now, i'm curious as to why and how they think this is the case.
i do have a BBC "account", but the only identifiable information it has for me is email address and postcode (which is the postcode of my previous address).
i assume they have seen that account being logged on and used (still at the previous property, which is my parents house), and come to a conclusion that it must be getting used at the new property, which is incorrect.
of course, i simply binned the email that TVL received, and if they wish to pursue i'll happily let them provide the evidence of it being used in this non-licenced property. as they are keen to remind everyone, the licence belongs to the property not the person.
(https://i.ibb.co/smKcQZx/Capture1.jpg)
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So how did these nazis make the like to Chenks? - through an email address, or IP address plus isp? Are ISPs colluding with these people? Or perhaps the TV nazis are buying data from say google ? I have no idea.
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i can only assume they saw the email address as using the server, and put 2 and 2 together and came up with 7.
clearly they didn't have the intelligence to look at the post code linked to the bbc account and notice it was a different post code (which is licenced).
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He's logged in to his Iplayer account on a device at his parents.
He's registered no tv license required with the same email address that is being used to view iPlayer at another address.
Perfectly legal.
Nothing stopping anyone registering no tv license required and using the same email address to watch iPlayer in a house with a license.
No ISP snooping or conspiracy here.
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indeed, but it's a flawed process they are using, as they are no restrictions on how many people can use one bbc account, or where they can use it.
a licence is linked to an address, but a BBC account isn't.
the problem is that they automatically remove the "no licence required" flag on the property registered. so you then have to re-register it again as none required.
the fact that the bbc account asks for post_code, but then they ignore it when running "checks".
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Sympathies, Chenks.
It can be very hard to get the TV licencing harassment mob off your scent after they get the slightest whiff there’s anything amiss, even when they are quite obviously wrong.
As mentioned in a different thread, Apple TV iPlayer continues to work without sign in, but only in SD. We have therefore signed in on the smart TV using other half’s long standing BBC account, which may be a better idea anyway as the licence is in her name, not mine. Otherwise, as you say, 2+2 might = 7.
One irritation since signing in, when starting a new playback, we now often get a 30 second advertisement for some other program. I suppose by being signed in, BBC are now ‘profiling’ the user’s tastes, and feel able to show ads that they think are relevant. The adverts can be easily skipped, but still very annoying, to me at least.
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One irritation since signing in, when starting a new playback, we now often get a 30 second advertisement for some other program.
I've not seen this, and atm I'm using iplayer a lot, both via the firestick(s) and the JVC TV inbuilt interface. I do get recommendations, but they are in a static row that I can scroll through for more info just underneath the main programs in that section. Note that 99% of the time I view via the 'category tab' so not sure if that makes any difference.
I have absolutely no objection to the recommends how they are presented to me - as mentioned previously I've discovered some good documentaries this way that I may have otherwise missed. Last night it recommended me a BBC film and considering at the time it was about 3am and I could not sleep due to pain, but feeling far too ill to get out of bed, it provided a slight distraction for about 110 mins. I actually like this feature because it has realised that I like documentaries/science/sci-fi and they are usually appropriate.
OTOH, the firestick main menu does give me ads which will autoplay. I don't think Prime has quite got my tastes quite correct yet - but that may more be down to the fact I'll put one of their movies on that friends may also want to watch too.
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I've not seen this
Lucky you. The advertising seems to be no secret....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/how-to-guides/getting-started/trailers_iplayer
Doesn’t always happen (maybe 50/50) so I can’t be certain that the advertisements are a result of signing in, but I never had any ads on the Panasonic TV before signing in, and never seen any advertisements on the Apple TV version, which still does not need sign in.
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Doesn’t always happen (maybe 50/50) so I can’t be certain that the advertisements are a result of signing in, but I never had any ads on the Panasonic TV before signing in, and never seen any advertisements on the Apple TV version, which still does not need sign in.
I'm always signed in now. Mostly watch through one of the firesticks, but sometimes will quickly skip to the JVC inbuilt app which allows to watch a live prog from start.
Out of curiosity do you have personalised recommendations (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/personal_recs) selected?
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I'm always signed in now. Mostly watch through one of the firesticks, but sometimes will quickly skip to the JVC inbuilt app which allows to watch a live prog from start.
Out of curiosity do you have personalised recommendations (https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/personal_recs) selected?
Hmm, so rather than a setting up on the TV App, that is set on the account, from a logged in browser on a PC?
I can’t personally confirm as it is not my login, and I don’t kmow password. I will request other half to confirm. :)
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I think all devices have the same login system for iPlayer now.
When you try login it gives you a short code, you then visit http://bbc.com/account/tv and enter this code. It links that device to your account and it remains logged in permanently.
Might be different on some legacy devices but it's identical on any device I've tried recently
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you then visit http://bbc.com/account/tv
That link simply takes me a page that invites me to login or register. I cannot log in as I have not registered and, in common hundreds of other sites that would like me to register, I am unwilling to do so.
But presumably, if a personal who has registered logs in at that link, he/she will be presented with an opportunity to tweak settings, including the option suggested by Kitz?
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Just enter bogus values, there is no email verification. I usually pick a postcode as close to W1A as I can find, and do so on every new device and every time the login cookie gets cleared.
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Just enter bogus values, there is no email verification. I usually pick a postcode as close to W1A as I can find, and do so on every new PC and every time the login cookie gets cleared.
I am unwilling to register my details. It’s not that there’s anything to hide, or any specific privacy concern, simply that I am unwilling to do so. There are literally hundreds of websites that invite me to register, and that I decline, BBC is just one more. I’d be even more unwilling to register using bogus details. :o
Repeat again, this does not prevent us from using iPlayer as other half has registered, logged in, and activated the TV. But since we did so, when we start to play a programme, we have been getting presented with advertisements for other programmes. I would like to find a way to stop these advertisements...
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Apologies, had not read the full thread. Try logging in with the account you made to watch on your TV and setting preferences.
You realise the irony in wishing to set persistent preferences across devices and not being willing to make an account?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of them requiring accounts, but sharing settings across devices with old/inadequate implementations to do so is a main reason.
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You realise the irony in wishing to set persistent preferences across devices and not being willing to make an account?
It also seems slightly bonkers that they will try to deduce “personal recommendations” on a TV that gets logged in simply by associating it with an account on some PC elsewhere, and then remains logged in forever (or is it two years?).
In a typical household with several persons sharing a TV, how can they hope to identify the “person” that is viewing, in order to provide these supposedly “personal” recommendations? ::)
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the iplayer app now supports multiple profiles (just like netflix does), so the idea is that each person has their own BBC profile, and thus each person gets their own tailored content.
it also lets you log in a a guest.
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the iplayer app now supports multiple profiles (just like netflix does), so the idea is that each person has their own BBC profile, and thus each person gets their own tailored content.
it also lets you log in a a guest.
Are you sure about the ‘Netflix-like’ profiles? I cannot see it as a setting on my iPlayer App, panasonic TV running FirefoxOS. Maybe just me being dumb? :-\
Re guest login I did explore that, but it seems to involve a convuluted process by telephone that needs to repeated every single day, not really a viable strategy. ::)
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yes 100% sure, maybe your version of the app doesn't support it yet.
mine is on Android TV.
and my experience of the guest login doesn't match yours, i'm guessing your versions of the app are quite old and aren't being actively developed/updated.
see https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/how-to-guides/sign-in/connected_tv_who_is_signed_in
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Yep profiles on all mine too.
You can switch between profiles and then using a code you can add your (personal) profile to whichever device you want.
If say you were part of a largish family, then you could set up a 'family' profile and leave that as default, but its still easy enough to switch to a personal profile within the app.
The thing that possibly takes the longest is adding your profile to the device, but even that only takes a couple of mins.
You start to sign in on the device, then iplayer will send you a code (I usually get these sent to the iplayer app on my phone*). You then enter that code into the device and your profile is now added to that device. You can delete/swap/rename profiles whenever you want.
*I use my phone for convenience so I don't have to wander off to another room, but it can be anything you already have the iplayer app on. Just wanted to make it clear that its linked to the iplayer app rather than my phone number which it doesnt know.
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Definitely has profiles, I've been using them on iPlayer beta for a couple years.
IPlayer beta can be enabled in the settings on the iPlayer app if you wish to try new features.
I can resume a programme I have been watching on iPlayer on any other device.
I have my own watch lists/favourites.
I don't see the crap my partner watches, it's great.
I understand you don't wish to login but like with any service you're not gonna get the full benefit and all the features if you don't.
The guest login being mentioned is that on an account that is logged in.
You can create profiles or be a guest and not have your watching history saved to a profile.
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Profiles, that’s odd. ???
Beta use? Yes, and I have it enabled, and Beeb quite genourously include my TV in UHD tests.
Re Guest login, I think we are at cross purposes, BBC may be using the term to mean multiple things.
My own reference was also in relation to signing in without any account at all, which is what I’d expect of “guest” access. The process is initiated as described at the following link. When I followed it through, and persevered with the phone IVR, it eventually offered just a single day’s access. I assume it is paying lip service to some aspect of the BBC access rules, whilst deliberately failing to be useful....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/help/how-to-guides/sign-in/connected_tv_sign_in
What if I don't have a mobile, tablet or computer?
If you are required to sign in to BBC iPlayer on your TV and you don't have a second device, it is still possible to use BBC iPlayer on your TV. You'll need to have access to a telephone (this doesn't need to be a smartphone - a regular telephone will do). Minicom facilities are also available if you have a speech or hearing impairment.
Follow these steps:
Open the BBC iPlayer application on your TV.
Press the Sign In button.
You should see a screen asking you to use a second device to sign in. At the bottom of the screen it should say, "Don't have a mobile, tablet or computer? Press down." Press down on your remote control.
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by guest access i mean using iplayer whilst not using a "profile", as you can see in the screenshot in the link i provided.
it's clear that your version of iplayer doesn't have the newer features that are being pushed out to other devices, most likely due to it being firefox OS.
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I noticed on the iplayer I use (on the PS4) the guest login as disappeared.
When loading up iplayer I used to be able to select guest, my account name, and new user. Now its just my account name and new user.
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I noticed on the iplayer I use (on the PS4) the guest login as disappeared.
When loading up iplayer I used to be able to select guest, my account name, and new user. Now its just my account name and new user.
I have this too, both on a Samsung and a PS4
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Can’t speak for the other platforms but one of the annoying features of FirefoxOS is, it is quite hard to withhold updates. So sudden behavioural changes, and new bugs that were not there before, are commonly encountered.
That said, I suspect iPlayer is basically a Web based App, taking its behaviour and GUI from remote server based configuration controls, rather than depending upon updates to the binary of an installed App itself. May be wrong, would be interested to know? :-\
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With no internet connection and clearing the entire data from the app the GUI fully loads.
minus the actual programme tiles/guide of course.
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That’s interesting J0hn. I don’t think FirefoxOS provides configuration controls for me to repeat the experiment, but I shall assume that if I could, I’d see the same outcome.
It just seems to me likely that BBC would have wanted an architecture that allowed themselves to tweak the GUI without having to build, test, and release new binaries for multiple versions of Android, FirefoxOS, AppleTV, games consoles, various historic Smart TVs, etc. ???
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"The television licence fee is going up from £150.50 to £154.50 on 1 April 2019, the government has announced."