Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: MaximusPrime on November 02, 2018, 12:03:32 AM

Title: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 02, 2018, 12:03:32 AM
Guys,

I got my FTTP installed thankfully, eventually got it in after 2.5 months

71Mb down, 21Mb up,

cheers
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: burakkucat on November 02, 2018, 12:46:16 AM
Native FTTP. Congratulations.  :)

Now you will need to update your signature block.  ;)
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 02, 2018, 12:49:09 AM
@burakkucat,

cheers, signature changed lol  :)
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: burakkucat on November 02, 2018, 01:00:52 AM
If you feel up to telling us about the details of the installation, etc, I'm sure we would all be interesting in reading it.

Have you remained with BT as your CP/ISP?
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: Weaver on November 02, 2018, 06:40:24 AM
Yes, would be pleased to read about it, while salivating.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: dee.jay on November 02, 2018, 08:13:06 AM
Curious to understand why the speed is only 71Mb on native FTTP?

Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 02, 2018, 08:30:26 AM
When I finally got my VDSL fixed about 2 years ago I was told FTTP would be coming to my house soon

During this Summer I seen BT installing cables along my road & added a new box to the top of the pole on the road

3 months ago the BT availability checker said FTTP was available to my house

I had stayed with BT during the Summer due to the FTTP & organised a 2 year contract getting 30 off each year & they said they would upgrade me to FTTP if it became available

I rang BT & asked them to upgrade me, we agreed a continuation of our existing contract & they would upgrade me for free

The 1st engineer they sent out didn't turn up, cut off my broadband & didn't install the FTTP, I had to ring up & it took 2 days to get my VDSL working again. BT gave me a personal contact to get things sorted.

The next engineer turned up but didn't install the FTTP because work needed to be done to 1 of the poles

Then BT said no work needed to be done to the pole & they sent out 2 engineers & they installed the FTTP; Fibre cable into the house & Fibre modem attached to the wall. BT sent me out the wrong Home Hub 6 - I needed 1 with a ethernet-WAN port so I had to ask them for 1 & send the other 1 back.

I have attached a pic of my NTE

I use my Billion router instead of the BT 1 because I don't want people parking outside my house using BT-Wifi



Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: j0hn on November 02, 2018, 09:21:03 AM
Quote
I use my Billion router instead of the BT 1 because I don't want people parking outside my house using BT-Wifi

You don't need to stop using the hub for that. It can easily be disabled while still using the BT hubs but it would prevent you from using the FON network (part of what the BT WiFi hotspots make up).

https://www.bt.com/wifi/secure/index.do?s_cid=con_FURL_btfon

Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: chenks on November 02, 2018, 09:28:28 AM
Curious to understand why the speed is only 71Mb on native FTTP?

yes why only 71Mbps down?
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: j0hn on November 02, 2018, 09:53:36 AM
There's no access to any detailed stats on the FTTP ONT's.

71/21Mb sounds like a random speed test.

I'm more surprised 2 people queried the slightly slow downstream and not the impossibly high upstream.

Probably just a test over WiFi and not significant.

WiFi coverage/throughput would be much better on the BT HH6 than the Billion 8800NL R1.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: johnson on November 02, 2018, 09:57:24 AM
I was reading it as 71MBps & 21MBps, so  ~500mbps 160mbps.

From here https://home.bt.com/tech-gadgets/future-tech/openreach-makes-gigabit-speeds-available-across-the-uks-largest-wholesale-fttp-network-11364111344562:

Quote
Openreach will launch two additional wholesale products over FTTP on December 6 2016, including a new up to 500Mbps product with an upload speed of up to 165 Mbps
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: j0hn on November 02, 2018, 10:00:11 AM
Yea... you read that wrong.

They don't do free upgrades from FTTC to 500/165 FTTP with a reduction in price.

More important BT don't sell such a product

edit: to add

550/165 and 1000/220 FTTP from OpenReach is only available on specific exchanges and requires XG-PON and comes with a hefty 500 install.

https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/pricing/loadProductPriceDetails.do?data=SjLGnN8O1mzybN7g39pZiNKvrleClYZjBLZ4w%2FibaalZ6rNZujnCs99NbIKJZPD9hXYmiijxH6wrCQm97GZMyQ%3D%3D
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 02, 2018, 10:05:55 AM
Those speeds were from an on-line tester on a wired ethernet connection

Tested this morning: 74Mb down 18Mb up

I'd say some of the bandwidth is used for transport data & error checking data & factoring in errors

John, I want to be able to use BT-wifi if im out & we live out of the town so I don't like cars parking outside on the road for security reasons
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: johnson on November 02, 2018, 10:06:51 AM
So the link is wrong?

Why would BT run a fibre to an actual house and not at least give the 330/30 that is offered for FTTPoD?
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: chenks on November 02, 2018, 10:08:50 AM
I'm more surprised 2 people queried the slightly slow downstream and not the impossibly high upstream.

21Mbps up is fairly normal on a clean line.
i was getting 19Mbps up on the FTTC before i moved.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 02, 2018, 10:09:40 AM
@johnson,

my line can handle 330Mb but it is more expensive, 80Mb is more than I'll ever need & it's cheaper
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: chenks on November 02, 2018, 10:10:22 AM
So the link is wrong?

Why would BT run a fibre to an actual house and not at least give the 330/30 that is offered for FTTPoD?

because you get what you pay for.
FTTP doesn't automatically mean you get those faster speeds, it just means the line is now capable of them.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: johnson on November 02, 2018, 10:12:40 AM
@johnson,

my line can handle 330Mb but it is more expensive, 80Mb is more than I'll ever need & it's cheaper

Ah ok! gotcha. So you are paying for 80/20 and are waaay below what the fibre can actually do.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: j0hn on November 02, 2018, 10:22:57 AM
So the link is wrong?

Why would BT run a fibre to an actual house and not at least give the 330/30 that is offered for FTTPoD?

With FTTP you are still free to choose any product you wish, as is the ISP. They don't make you take the more expensive option.

They can offer all the same FTTC speeds
40/2
40/10
55/10
80/20
and a whole bunch of higher FTTP speeds.

Anything above 330/50 needs XG-PON and has a much higher install charge.

The link you posted shows Openreach have made it available, but I only know of Spectrum Internet who sell it.
They have their own backhaul network.

Last time I checked BT Wholesale didn't support/sell the 500/165Mb and 1000/220Mb products, but that may have since changed.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: dee.jay on November 02, 2018, 12:22:53 PM
I'm more surprised 2 people queried the slightly slow downstream and not the impossibly high upstream.

21Mb isn't that much and didn't raise any alarm bells for me.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: j0hn on November 02, 2018, 03:29:56 PM
21Mbps up is fairly normal on a clean line.
i was getting 19Mbps up on the FTTC before i moved.
You what?

The 19Mb is normal yes, but 21Mb doesn't become any more "normal on a clean line".

It remains impossible to get 21Mb throughput upstream on an OpenReach FTT(C/P) 20Mb product whatever the line conditions.

Any test suggesting a 21Mb throughput shouldn't be used.

Much more likely to get 71Mb down than 21Mb up.

1 is impossible and 1 is normal with usage on a contended network.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: shambly on November 02, 2018, 04:17:36 PM
For what it is worth, my 80/20 FTTP connection (BT retail) routinely tests at 74.1 down (bursting to 76.9) and 20.3 up (bursting to 21.3) using the think broadband test.

Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 03, 2018, 12:18:40 PM
I have attached this mornings speed test from www.speedtest.net
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: ejs on November 03, 2018, 12:34:13 PM
The test is still wrong.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: johnson on November 03, 2018, 12:40:43 PM
Do fibre ONT/modem devices even have a synchronisation speed in the same sense as an xDSL modem? Or is the bandwidth only controlled further up in the network? Maybe that could explain the difference.

Also I assume fibre equipment has at least equal or lower latency to DSL and the high 25ms ping is due to geographic location?
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: CarlT on November 03, 2018, 02:41:38 PM
Bandwidth controlled further up only - every property gets the full speed of the link if left 'uncapped'. Latency is superior to fast-path VDSL.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: c6em on November 03, 2018, 04:08:24 PM
Just tested my Gigaclear line on that speedtest.net site.
FTTP package I'm on is a nominal 50Mbps both up and down.

Results were ping 6ms, download 52.84Mbps, upload 49.55Mbps
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: burakkucat on November 03, 2018, 05:12:42 PM
The test is still wrong.

Agreed.

I would go as far as saying that all throughput speed tests are wrong, some more wrong than others . . . each one is constructed with some fiddle-function or assumption, made by its creator.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: CarlT on November 03, 2018, 05:16:49 PM
Any chance Openreach put a touch of 'fluff' on the upstream rather than capping at exactly 20,000, or that the ONT / OLT permit a burst before they start to enforce the bandwidth limit?

My cable is capped to 402,750 down, 22,000 up and has a burst that's allowed before it starts enforcing those limits.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: burakkucat on November 03, 2018, 05:23:49 PM
Most likely it is the burst effect.

If we wanted to create a ridiculously wrong throughput speed-test, it would be quite simple to note the maximum rate achieved over the testing period and then quote that peak as the throughput.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: j0hn on November 03, 2018, 06:58:12 PM
I have attached this mornings speed test from www.speedtest.net

The speedtest.net test is pretty poor to be honest.

The ThinkBroadband speet test (https://www.thinkbroadband.com/speedtest) is more detailed and more accurate imo.

Can you visit mouselike and enter your landline number.
Paste the results here (minus yor number of course).

https://windows.mouselike.org/be/index.asp?DoAction=BrasChecker

Not sure if mouselike works with FTTP lines or if you need to go to the BTw test site for FTTP.

http://www.speedtest.btwholesale.com/

The BT Wholesale test is the most inaccurate of them all with certain browsers but should give IP profile info, which is often wrong on FTTP.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 08, 2018, 03:50:12 PM
@j0hn,

mouselike didn't work & the further diagnostics on the BT wholesale tester didn't work either

I have attached speed tests from Think Boardband & BT Wholesale
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: jelv on November 08, 2018, 04:26:40 PM
You've forgotten to post the results from when you pressed the Further Diagnostics button - that's the crucial information we need.
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: MaximusPrime on November 08, 2018, 05:04:17 PM
@jelv, the further diagnostics didn't work as I said
Title: Re: FTTP Installed
Post by: shambly on November 08, 2018, 06:42:58 PM
@jelv, the further diagnostics didn't work as I said

Same for me. It reports...

No Fibre to the Premises (FTTP) services have been found at this address.

My FTTP has been live for about 10 months...