Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: Wirezfree on October 24, 2018, 10:13:52 PM
-
Hi All,
Live on a largish new build development. (Initially had an issue getting FTTC)
Over the summer it was like a BT-OR Party... Van after Van.. Big Vans, Little Vans.
A Truck with a Big roll on it.. and assorted other vans... I spoke to one BT-OR chap, turns out he was a planner.
Fibre to the premises is being rolled out... Woopy Dooo... He said basically watch this space...
Then 2 weeks ago a Big Sign went up "500Mbps now available on this Development"
So go to Sales Office to enquire... Yes it is available... But only in the "New.. New Houses" What...!!!
Needless to say... I'm not going to let this go...
Even if it's taking them to Advertising Standards Agency... It's only on selected parts...
-
I can see the reason for your frustration. :(
-
In fairness the advertising banner that you posted reads “up to 500Mbps”. In terms of English
language that conveys the fact that 500Mbps may be available to some people under some circumstances, but not everybody, and emphasising “may be”.
ADSL speeds of (say) 2Mbps meet the description of “up to 500Mbps”, as do dial up speeds of 56kbps. :)
-
In fairness the advertising banner that you posted reads “up to 500Mbps”. In terms of English
language that conveys the fact that 500Mbps may be available to some people under some circumstances, but not everybody, and emphasising “may be”.
ADSL speeds of (say) 2Mbps meet the description of “up to 500Mbps”, as do dial up speeds of 56kbps. :)
I understand that part... Sorry I should have qualified further...
It turns out that they have not put, or planning to put any fibre in to the corner of the development I'm on.
-
I once bought a home on a new build estate.
Long predated broadband, but ISTR there was a clause in the contract whereby the developer, if they failed to complete infrastructure such as completion of roads, street lighting etc to standards demanded by local authorities within a certain number of years, they would have to compensate purchasers so they themselves could pay to bring it all up to scratch.
If you feel FTTP was a reasonable expectation, might be worth checking the contract?
-
I once bought a home on a new build estate.
Long predated broadband, but ISTR there was a clause in the contract whereby the developer, if they failed to complete infrastructure such as completion of roads, street lighting etc to standards demanded by local authorities within a certain number of years, they would have to compensate purchasers so they themselves could pay to bring it all up to scratch.
If you feel FTTP was a reasonable expectation, might be worth checking the contract?
There was no expectation... Originally there was only VMB on offer, and I eventually got FTTC
-
In fairness the advertising banner that you posted reads “up to 500Mbps”. In terms of English
language that conveys the fact that 500Mbps may be available to some people under some circumstances, but not everybody, and emphasising “may be”.
ADSL speeds of (say) 2Mbps meet the description of “up to 500Mbps”, as do dial up speeds of 56kbps. :)
It also clearly states "totally unlimited full fibre optic internet access directly into your home" rather than only as far as the cabinet.
-
When FTTPod becomes available again you might want to see how much that costs, as having full fttp close by could have substantially reduced the installation cost. If you run a business from home then you could also get a £3k voucher towards the cost. You'll almost certainly need to pay £250 to get a realistic price, as the free desktop quotes can be widely out.
-
I understand that part... Sorry I should have qualified further...
It turns out that they have not put, or planning to put any fibre in to the corner of the development I'm on.
I'm not completely au-fait with the 'why's and wherefore's' of FTTP roll-out ..... but I'm sure if one performs a search, it will lead to documentation surrounding provision to new-build dwellings ??.
The rules have changed in recent months, regarding the amount of new-build properties before free FTTP will be installed. This may have been the reason your own new-build (how old is it ??) missed the cut ??.
But in defence of OR, they can't just start laying FTTP just because there are other older 'new builds' around the corner. That would set a precedent for the whole of the UK, not just your locality.
-
edit: chopped my first line off by mistake.
It's because OpenReach will install FTTP for FREE for NEW developments only.
The developer would have to pay (a quite considerable amount) to retrospectively fit FTTP for the existing properties.
Needless to say... I'm not going to let this go...
Even if it's taking them to Advertising Standards Agency... It's only on selected parts...
Good luck with that, you will need it.
The ASA won't take your case, I'm not even sure if they cover such adverts.
The only time I've seen developers change their mind on such things is those who have stumped up for an FTTC cab after residents either
1. got local press involved, negative publicity affects sales.
2. residents put signs in their garden stating local internet on the new development was shocking.
But you already have FTTC.
A sign saying I can only get 80Mb doesn't have the same effect as a sign saying I get 2Mb broadband.
The critical question is, are all the plots on your section of the development sold already?
-
I dunno, it's an interesting one because his house is on the development.
That advert is implying that all houses should be receiving it. I'd be annoyed too.
Very naughty that it's only in the "New New" houses though...
-
When FTTPod becomes available again you might want to see how much that costs, as having full fttp close by could have substantially reduced the installation cost. If you run a business from home then you could also get a £3k voucher towards the cost. You'll almost certainly need to pay £250 to get a realistic price, as the free desktop quotes can be widely out.
Curious as to how this would be cheaper?
It's still priced from the nearest Agg Node which will probably be the same Agg Node as before this FTTP popped up.
If my neighbour has a completed FTTPod build I still pay the same huge cost.
The fact large chunks of infrastructure is in place seems to make no difference to quotes.
As seen by quotes for neighbouring FTTPod properties on ThinkBroadband FTTPod threads.
edit: clarify that part. If my neighbour had FTTPod under the old ordering process. Under the new process those who share a DP get free native FTTP.
Still part shared infrastructure seems to make no difference to desktop quotes at least.
Surely OpenReach know where their brand new expensive FTTP infrastructure is (not sure if that's sarcasm or not).
-
Hi All,
Thanks...
To add some comments to cover your comments..
1. I was part of the first phase on the development Feb 2017, all are sold(100), they are now on phase 2.
2. This a development at the end of lane, only fields surround it,.
3. I can see that a lot of the houses took the VMB route, I can see the capping(brown) on the front walls, mine is grey.
-
I dunno, it's an interesting one because his house is on the development.
That advert is implying that all houses should be receiving it. I'd be annoyed too.
Very naughty that it's only in the "New New" houses though...
And my Tesco has a sign saying baby and child parking available here. The space I parked in didn't have it though.
That sign doesn't claim ALL homes, though it doesn't clarify NEW homes.
It's rather vague, and simply claims ULTRAFAST BROADBAND AVAILABLE ON THIS DEVELOPMENT
Which it is.
If that sign was there when YOU bought your home you would have a claim of wrongful advertising.
The fact is you're already a resident, a paid up customer.
As I stated before
The critical question is, are all the plots on your section of the development sold already?
edit:
1. I was part of the first phase on the development Feb 2017, all are sold(100), they are now on phase 2.
I can't see much hope then.
If they need to pass your home to reach this new section a big sign in the garden might get the developers attention.
If you are tucked away in a cul-de-sac you might be out of luck.
I believe it to be quite an expensive option to pay OpenReach to retrospectively fit FTTP.
-
Yes, agreed, j0hn.
Well, 2025 isn't that far away...
-
John, I did say could have, it could be that they've installed a closer aggregation node or maybe not :P
-
John, I did say could have, it could be that they've installed a closer aggregation node or maybe not :P
Not sure what that is...
But this is the new green cab that appeared on the development.
((I'm connected to CAB55 about 800/900M further down the lane from this one,
-
That's just a boggo standard PCP cabinet, is it not?
-
That's just a boggo standard PCP cabinet, is it not?
Yes, it is a Primary Cross-connection Point.
-
Hot off the press ....
We’ve slashed our prices to make it easier for ALL new-build homes to have access to Ultrafast broadband
Yesterday we announced new low pricing to encourage house builders to provide all new homes with full fibre. Fibre To The Premises (FTTP) is already offered free on residential and mixed sites over 30 plots but from 1 November we're dropping the price of full fibre broadband infrastructure to new homes by 75 per cent for those developers with fewer than 30 premises.
The new pricing means UK house builders will pay just a fraction of the current costs if they ask us to build faster, more reliable FTTP technology to their new homes on small-scale developments.
It means more than 40,000 new homes across 5,000 small housing developments per year could benefit from being upgraded to the cutting edge technology which provides a faster, more stable fibre service.
-
1. I was part of the first phase on the development Feb 2017, all are sold(100), they are now on phase 2.
A few years ago when Openreach first started offering FTTP at no additional cost to developers, the threshold was a minimum of 100 homes. This threshold was lowered to 30 homes in from Nov 2016 so it may have been your developer had already requested copper from Openreach before Nov 2016. I'm sure you know well that developers will always take the cheapest option and copper was cheaper than FTTP at the time from Openreach
TBH I would just be grateful that you've at least got FTTC, there's many horror stories of new build buyers stuck with a sub 3 Mbps ADSL service even in recent times.
-
Oh my goodness, I just had to sign up to the forum to tell you that I feel your pain. I moved in to my (Persimmon) property in December 2015. At that time, there wasn't even FTTC. It was ADSL only and we all get speeds of around 8Mbps. Meanwhile, the main road off the development was FTTP as that had been planned many a year ago. This was fair enough, and Openreach lead me to part-fund the cost of upgrading the cabinet (FTTC). No sooner had I committed to paying nearly £5000 for this (and being told by residents that I had a screw loose because they already had fibre) than I realised that it was only a select number of homes still on copper ADSL, and that homes built 6 months after mine were being provisioned with FTTP from the outset. The fibre node is outside my house, and OR have quoted me another £8,500 to have FTTP. It's a big mess. Feel free to DM me if you want some empathy!! Tom
-
You say OR have quoted you £5k for FTTP, is that a desktop survey, or have you paid the £250 for a full and proper survey? Full surveys are coming far cheaper than desktop quotes. Although if you don't have FTTC then you probably couldn't order FTTPod in theory.
-
Hey, thanks for the reply. I have paid £5000 for the FTTC (Cabinet) and not FTTP - due to be live in February and will serve 407 properties. FTTP desktop quotation of £8500 was done through Openreach Community Fibre Partnership, but just for my property. It was recommended at first that I wait for the cabinet and then try for FTTPod. But to be honest, I wouldn’t know where to start in terms of ISPs offering it, and the packages available. I imagined that with FTTP being available to houses LITERALLY opposite, it would have been less than £8,500 and a lot easier for OR than running a new Fibre all the way from the cabinet.
-
Yes sorry I quoted the wrong figure there I should have said £8.5k. FTTPod is run from the nearest aggregation node, which is not necessarily near the FTTC cabinet - one node could serve a many cabinets or properties, so could be some distance away. However there have been many examples of desktop quotes coming in high because they are using inaccurate data. Best advice is to wait for the FTTC cab to go live, then request an FTTPod desktop quote, then pay the £250 for a proper survey.
You'll find these threads interesting reading, they will also give info on which ISP's can offer FTTPod.
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4586020-fttpod-unreal-pricing.html?vc=1
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/t/4595298-fttpod-desktop-quotes-and-final-prices.html?vc=1
http://forums.thinkbroadband.com/fibre/f/4604719-re-fttpod-desktop-quotes-and-final-prices.html
-
Thank you Ronski that is really helpful and hopefully helps the OP too. I suppose if it’s run from the node and not the cabinet, then I am unsure why I need to wait for the cabinet to go live first, bearing in mind the infrastructure is already there for the adjacent FTTP properties.
But, I’ll see how I get on with FTTC. Going from 8Mb to hopefully 60Mb will be a cast improvement and may pacify me for a couple of years. It’s just frustrating the way the whole thing turned out due to timing of OR and BDUK projects starting and finishing!
-
That's because the system will not allow an FTTPoD offer unless the serving PCP is enabled for Fibre.
So until the FTTC cabinet is live you can't order FTTPoD.
-
Thanks Everyone. That's something I will consider then, if I want to futureproof my house with the FTTP. But knowing me, I may just end up bonding a could of VDSLs together like I did with ADSL - it worked very well!