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Computers & Hardware => Networking => Topic started by: chenks on October 14, 2018, 09:37:26 PM

Title: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 14, 2018, 09:37:26 PM
i've moved and my new flat is an old 1920's tenement building with thick stone walls external and internal (they don't build them like this any more).
as such the planned location of my Unifi AP isn't suitable. it does manage cover all areas but the furthest point away the signal can be a little week (2.4 and 5).

so i'm going to move the AP to the middle point of the flat.
this means i'll need approx 40m-50m  (probably somewhere around 30m be going longer to be on safe side).
the AP is powered via POE from the edgerouter which is staying in the original location (aloong with all the other comms kit).

routing the cable will be fine as it'll be following the same route as the virgin coax cable.
the AP will be placed about the front door, which is the where the entry point for Virgin is. and the route back to the edgerouter will be the same route as the virgin coax takes to get the termination point.

the only snag i have it trying to find suitable cat5e/cat6 WHITE cable to do the job.
i'm happy to buy a 50m patch cable and just cut an end off and re-terminate it again myself, but most of the 50m patch cables appear to be a dubious quality at best, or are mis-advertised as white but are actually grey when to drill into the actual listing.

so can anyone point me in the direction of a suitable length of cable?
it'll need to be white, be able to do POE and supply gigabit with no degradation.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: burakkucat on October 14, 2018, 10:23:57 PM
Would the Cat5e (https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/telephone-network-cable/cat5e-ethernet-cable/) cable from Run-IT-Direct (https://www.run-it-direct.co.uk/) be suitable?
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 07:48:39 AM
possibly, but at 75p per meter it ain't cheap!
£37.50 for 50m.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: andyfitter on October 15, 2018, 09:36:27 AM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/50m-Networkcable-patchkabel-flooring-laminate/dp/B0167KR4UU
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 09:45:24 AM
https://www.amazon.co.uk/50m-Networkcable-patchkabel-flooring-laminate/dp/B0167KR4UU

i've always been dubious about the "flat" style cable. surely this interferes with the "twisted pair" model.
also, as i'd be needing to cut the plug off one end and re-terminate it, having never done it with a flat cable, i'd not be confident in getting a good reconnection.

it also gets very bad reviews, i'd avoid the "flat" style cable at all costs.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: Ronski on October 15, 2018, 10:25:46 AM
Found this on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/100m-Reel-White-Excel-BRAND-Cat5e-Pure-Solid-Copper-4-Pair-UTP-PVC-Cable-24awg/1907625234?iid=263421641178&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fp%25252F100m-Reel-White-Excel-BRAND-Cat5e-Pure-Solid-Copper-4-Pair-UTP-PVC-Cable-24awg%25252F1907625234%25253Fiid%25253D263421641178%252526chn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D263421641178%2526targetid%253D520070965893%2526device%253Dt%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D1007049%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1485471542%2526adgroupid%253D56467544614%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-520070965893%2526abcId%253D1139366%2526merchantid%253D110863831%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQjw9ZDeBRD9ARIsAMbAmobWY5EuUndXjX8OBJrzv9mgLw7xsJyVrt9Q913rDUfrE9wkDbvPwIMaAtSaEALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1704644834151%2526rvr_ts%253D7701bf3a1660ada631e68d5bfff98a7a)

Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 10:41:32 AM
Found this on ebay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/100m-Reel-White-Excel-BRAND-Cat5e-Pure-Solid-Copper-4-Pair-UTP-PVC-Cable-24awg/1907625234?iid=263421641178&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%253A%252F%252Frover.ebay.com%252Frover%252F1%252F710-134428-41853-0%252F2%253Fmpre%253Dhttps%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.ebay.co.uk%25252Fp%25252F100m-Reel-White-Excel-BRAND-Cat5e-Pure-Solid-Copper-4-Pair-UTP-PVC-Cable-24awg%25252F1907625234%25253Fiid%25253D263421641178%252526chn%25253Dps%2526itemid%253D263421641178%2526targetid%253D520070965893%2526device%253Dt%2526adtype%253Dpla%2526googleloc%253D1007049%2526poi%253D%2526campaignid%253D1485471542%2526adgroupid%253D56467544614%2526rlsatarget%253Dpla-520070965893%2526abcId%253D1139366%2526merchantid%253D110863831%2526gclid%253DCj0KCQjw9ZDeBRD9ARIsAMbAmobWY5EuUndXjX8OBJrzv9mgLw7xsJyVrt9Q913rDUfrE9wkDbvPwIMaAtSaEALw_wcB%2526srcrot%253D710-134428-41853-0%2526rvr_id%253D1704644834151%2526rvr_ts%253D7701bf3a1660ada631e68d5bfff98a7a)

would be ideal if they did it in smaller lengths.
it would be waste to get 100m and only use less than half of it.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: Ronski on October 15, 2018, 01:08:07 PM
You could always put what's left back on ebay.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 02:44:54 PM
You could always put what's left back on ebay.

i refuse to sell anything on ebay after they started taking a percentage of your postage costs, on top of a percentage of the selling price and a percentage from the paypal fee.

not worth selling anything on there any more.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: jelv on October 15, 2018, 03:01:13 PM
https://www.gumtree.com/
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 03:03:06 PM
i'd rather not have to buy more than i need on the off chance i'd be able to sell on the off cut i didn't use.
the chances of selling it would be slim at best.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: Ronski on October 15, 2018, 03:53:40 PM
i refuse to sell anything on ebay after they started taking a percentage of your postage costs, on top of a percentage of the selling price and a percentage from the paypal fee.

not worth selling anything on there any more.

I always take those fees into account when working out prices, ie pass them on to the purchaser.

PS. I suspect they started taking a percentage of postal costs as some users used whack up the postage to save on fees, but I do agree the fees are to expensive.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 04:18:09 PM
PS. I suspect they started taking a percentage of postal costs as some users used whack up the postage to save on fees, but I do agree the fees are to expensive.

indeed they did. but that then punishes honest sellers that charge what postage (and packaging) actually costs, which means you end up out of pocket on the P&P.

if you sell something at £20-£30 it almost ends up hardly worth it, once you take into account
sell price percentage
posting price percentage
paypal fee
and (if applicable) listing fee

add on to that the amount of people that complain about what they've bought, ebay can go "f" themselves.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: re0 on October 15, 2018, 04:19:48 PM
I always take those fees into account when working out prices, ie pass them on to the purchaser.
I am pretty sure it goes against eBay's terms, though I could be wrong. But I can't blame anyone for doing that since I think it is unreasonable to take a slice of postal fees!

eBay is a terrible marketplace anyway, at least for the sellers... even more so in regards to the little, occasional sellers.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: Ronski on October 15, 2018, 08:58:46 PM
Hmmm, I've never seen anywhere that I'm aware that states you have to charge what the postage physically costs, there is materials, and time to pack as well, they all have a cost, and that cost should be taken into account in the postage costs. I don't sell much, just mainly old stuff that's no longer required, mostly with free delivery (which of course is built into the price). My biggest problem is actually getting around to listing it.

Actually having just Googled this I came across a page on MSE (https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/news/2013/09/ebay-sellers-beware-its-fees-now-eat-into-postage-costs/), which states user can't increase postage costs to cover fee's, but I've often charged more that the physical cost and I've used the Ebay postage system to buy and print the labels and have never been challenged, but then I do only charge reasonable prices.

If there is another easy way to sell something, such as forum classifieds then I'll use that instead, but other wise I use eBay. If it's left sitting in a cupboard then I get nothing, at least selling on eBay I get something back. In one recent sale I sold £150 worth of wheels/tyres for a £1 maximum fee, and the guy paid cash so no Paypal fee's  ;D
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on October 15, 2018, 09:07:59 PM
anyway, back to the original subject....
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on November 05, 2018, 09:02:57 PM
so i was experimenting with new placement of AP with an old long cat5e patch cable i had (about 10 meters or so).
and wow was a surprised in the drop off of speed cause by that cable.

with the AP connected with a 1m cable to router i can max out my ISP downstream (218Mbps down) over WIFI on my phone.
switch it over to that long temporary cable and was lucky to break 100Mbps down on a test using the same device standing next to the AP.
the cable is UTP 24AWG 4 pair, but guessing it must be unshielded.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on November 05, 2018, 09:27:46 PM
Unshielded Cat 5e will easilly provide gigabit ethernet over these distances, in any normal (or even extreme) domestic environment.

A possible explanation might be a cable fault, open circuit on one of the cores, whereupon the comms link will often drop back to 100Mbit ethernet, using just 2 pairs?

I have personally found manufactured patch cables to be highly unreliable, with open circuit cores on some, even when brand new.   Paying more for good branded cables helps, but is no guarantee of success owing to abundance of counterfeits.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on November 05, 2018, 10:02:40 PM
on closer inspection, it may actually be cat5 (not cat 5e).
which may explain the drop off.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on November 05, 2018, 10:41:06 PM
on closer inspection, it may actually be cat5 (not cat 5e).
which may explain the drop off.

Probably not.  In most circumstances, and particularly such short distances, Gigabit ethernet will work just as well on Cat 5 as Cat 5e.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on November 06, 2018, 07:42:41 AM
well something ain't right with the cable, that's for sure.
it's not dropping back to 100Mbps though, as on some tests it's exceeding 100Mbps, but getting nowhere near 200Mbps.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on November 06, 2018, 08:17:32 AM
Didnít mean to disagree, odds on it is a bad cable - either faulty, or just border-line performance.    Assuming that is, you have complete confidence in gigabit capability of whatever it is connected to at either end?

Maybe a more scientific approach than measuring obderved speed,  which can be affected by other co-incidental factors, I would have expected there to be some way of interrogating the ethernet connection to see if gigabit had been negotiated.   Using for example the GUI, telnet & CLI, whatever, to see whether it has negotiated 100Mbit or gigabit.  Maybe some Busybox/Linux experts can suggest suitable CLI incantations...?

Alternatively, on some kit the flashing activity leds change colour when gigabit is negotiated.  Maybe worth checking whether that applies to your kit, unless you already know.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on November 06, 2018, 08:20:24 AM
oh yes, the end point is fully gigabit capable. Unifi AP connected to EdgeRouter.
of course, won't be getting gigabit over the WIFI connection, but it's capable of more than what my ISP downstream limit is.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on November 06, 2018, 09:02:51 AM
I have no experience of these brands.

I performed a quick google search.  Bearing in mind that quick google searches often produce red herrings, found this...

From
https://help.ubnt.com/hc/en-us/articles/204910134-UniFi-LED-Color-Patterns-in-UniFi-Devices

Speed/Link/Act (right LED ports other than Console):

Quote
LED Off: No Link
LED Amber: Link Established at 10/100 Mbps
LED Flashing Amber: Link Activity at 10/100 Mbps
LED Green: Link Established at 1000 Mbps
LED Flashing Green: Link Activity at 1000 Mbps


If the link is 100Mbps then obviously,  that would explain the issue.   If the link is establishing 1000 Mbps then possible reasons for low WiFi throughput might be...

1). The AP is just not happy in its new location, too much interference, or other issues.   WiFi throughtput is always susceptible to degradation as the frequencies are shared with various other applications.   Whilst I have no doubt that very fast WiFi (100s of Mbps)  is possible and demonstrable, and I find it useful when it works, I personally tend to not rely on it beyond whatís needed to stream HD or UHD movies, a few 10s of Mbps.

2).  Too many ethernet retransmissions.   This is extremely unlikely, transmissions should be very rare and usually zero, but worth checking as a last resort, though I donít know what diagnostic interface youíd use.   That would tend to imply a fairly major hardware fault, either cabling or interfaces.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: jelv on November 06, 2018, 09:14:09 AM
Could you test a wired connection direct to the router using the suspect cable.

You could also try running speed tests across the LAN https://totusoft.com/lanspeed
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on November 06, 2018, 09:14:32 AM
i think you're totally mis-interpreting the issue here.
the issue not with AP placement, or the end-point connection.
as i clearly said, the issue is the cable.

i was merely commenting on how i was surprised in the drop off of speed cause by that cable.
Title: Re: WHITE cat5e cable of 50m in length
Post by: chenks on November 06, 2018, 09:15:54 AM
Could you test a wired connection direct to the router using the suspect cable.

You could also try running speed tests across the LAN https://totusoft.com/lanspeed

the edgerouters have iperf built-in, so would be easy enough to run a network test.
but it's the cable that is the problem.