Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: mpmc on September 10, 2018, 02:49:35 PM
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Hey folks,
I asked for a GEA test for our line since moving to plusnet a few days ago (went live on the 8th), and from the result - from what I can gather - it doesn't look good!
The results are here (https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/GEA-test-request-and-static-IP-questions/m-p/1569169/highlight/false#M82173), I'm basically here to ask you guys for your expert opinions on the results, should a fault be raised or is the line basically a lost cause?
TIA
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Welcome to the forums.
You answered your own question by producing the test results. See the bit that says .... 'Potential HR Joint detected on GEA service. Please continue to submit a trouble report' ..... that means you have a fault somewhere and PlusNet should get an engineer out.
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To add ...... silly test systems mention that an appointment isn't required, (indicating the test system thinks the fault is outside your premises), yet also mentions you have a 'Bridged Tap' on your circuit .... which in 99% of cases are inside the premises.
I would humbly suggest you make an appointment for an engineer to come to your house to rectify the issue.
I haven't got the time to go into depth about how to self-help regarding 'bridged taps' .... but I'm sure one of our retired members will be along shortly. ;) ;D ;D ;D
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Downstream Speed 24.1 Mbps
Estimated Line Length In Metres 57.5
What does the BTWholesale checker (https://www.dslchecker.bt.com/) return re speed estimates that you should be getting for your line?
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To add ...... silly test systems mention that an appointment isn't required, (indicating the test system thinks the fault is outside your premises), yet also mentions you have a 'Bridged Tap' on your circuit .... which in 99% of cases are inside the premises.
I would humbly suggest you make an appointment for an engineer to come to your house to rectify the issue.
I haven't got the time to go into depth about how to self-help regarding 'bridged taps' .... but I'm sure one of our retired members will be along shortly. ;) ;D ;D ;D
My god that was fast, thanks :)
That was exactly what was confusing me, fault but no engineer required ???, thanks for clearing that one up.
The bridge tap thing is interesting, how would we go about locating this? We only have one line going into the premises, and there is no other socket or termination we can see! However there is a small manhole cover right outside our path that I've seen BT OR pull out a crap ton of cables many times over the years. We've had our line lifted-and-shifted once too.
:D
@kitz: I took this a few days ago.
(https://i.imgur.com/LeykQAi.png)
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Just out of interest, do you know roughly how far away your PCP/FTTC cabinet is from your home?
Estimated Line Length In Metres 57.5
Seems a bit off doesn't it?
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Just out of interest, do you know roughly how far away your PCP/FTTC cabinet is from your home?
Seems a bit off doesn't it?
Yes! Using https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm says the distance is 1,740m (exchange?) and google says it is about 0.5 miles using postcode. :-\
oh, I forgot to mention, the csw "faster broadband" site lists our postcode as being under contract 3 for FTTP by the end of 2019, but who knows!
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Just out of interest, do you know roughly how far away your PCP/FTTC cabinet is from your home?
Seems a bit off doesn't it?
It does rather! and why I wondered what the checker said. ???
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I'm honestly, not sure what to do TBF. The plusnet staff have said I could raise it as a fault, but I'm wary of the costs of the call out.
The only master socket in the place (rented) is in the lounge/dining room, there are no other sockets just the cat5 extension the OR guy installed to upstairs, which is connected to the VDSL port on the faceplate. Even connecting directly to the master test socket we still get the same speeds. Unless there is a secret hidden second master socket we don't know about :lol:
We had such an initial farce getting VDSL in the first place as it we were originally only getting 10mbps, we ended up being without internet for 3 months, and then another few months when someone slammed us.
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Tough call. The line is syncing at 24Mbps which is within the Clean range of 20 to 31.3 Mbps.
You mention that all the internal wiring is OR installed after originally only getting 10Mbps thus it's unlikely to be on your side of things, but I see the point about worrying about a possible no fault found fee :(
Apols if I missed it, what was the reason for asking for a GEA test. Is there something which is affecting the line?
Does your modem monitor such things as CRC and Errored seconds? Does it frequently disconnect?
>> Potential HR Joint detected on GEA service.
If there was a HR fault it usually displays first in the upstream.
I'd also try a Quiet Line test to see if you can hear any noise on the physical line (17070 Option 2).
Other symptoms could be the dsl connection dropping when the telephone rings or when the phone is in use.
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With the little information I have been able to glean from the various posts in this thread, I believe that CMCHP_P10 is located in Castle Road, Hartshill (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5480137,-1.5210681,3a,15y,186.13h,83.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFpeoJmh3cSWjrgnOqUnk7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en). The exchange building, CMCHP, can be seen in Camp Hill Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5369684,-1.5151864,3a,37.5y,162.14h,87.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdgRBGyrJT_PIa3tJnkPv6A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en).
I wonder if my learned friend in such matters, j0hn, has been able to find any other pieces of the jigsaw? :-\
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Tough call. The line is syncing at 24Mbps which is within the Clean range of 20 to 31.3 Mbps.
* You mention that all the internal wiring is OR installed after originally only getting 10Mbps thus it's unlikely to be on your side of things, but I see the point about worrying about a possible no fault found fee :(
** Apols if I missed it, what was the reason for asking for a GEA test. Is there something which is affecting the line?
Does your modem monitor such things as CRC and Errored seconds? Does it frequently disconnect?
>> Potential HR Joint detected on GEA service.
*** If there was a HR fault it usually displays first in the upstream.
I'd also try a Quiet Line test to see if you can hear any noise on the physical line (17070 Option 2).
Other symptoms could be the dsl connection dropping when the telephone rings or when the phone is in use.
*: Yes, all OR installed, even replaced the faceplate, and then the complete unit when lightning struck our line & blew it not long ago.
**: There was no reason, I was never able to get one from BT, just wanted to see how our line was performing.
**: I've done a quiet line test previously, and again now, no crackling, but there is a very slight sound of fuzz. I'll have to record a sample and upload it.
When we were with BT the line was stable but would drop in bad weather, lightning, heavy rain etc. We are actually getting higher sync on plusnet compared to BT too, so I'm not sure what that is about as it should just be the same service. :P
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With the little information I have been able to glean from the various posts in this thread, I believe that CMCHP_P10 is located in Castle Road, Hartshill (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5480137,-1.5210681,3a,15y,186.13h,83.58t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sFpeoJmh3cSWjrgnOqUnk7g!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en). The exchange building, CMCHP, can be seen in Camp Hill Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@52.5369684,-1.5151864,3a,37.5y,162.14h,87.67t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sdgRBGyrJT_PIa3tJnkPv6A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en).
I wonder if my learned friend in such matters, j0hn, has been able to find any other pieces of the jigsaw? :-\
You Sir/Madam/Cat/Dog (pick one :)) are correct, and if you go to the bottom of Trentham Rd, I am on one of those streets that follow, I won't be any more specific than that, for privacy reasons you understand.
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You Sir/Madam/Cat/Dog (pick one :)) are correct, and if you go to the bottom of Trentham Rd, I am on one of those streets that follow, I won't be any more specific than that, for privacy reasons you understand.
Of course. ;)
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so I'm not sure what that is about as it should just be the same service.
In theory yes. Its possible that the move could have caused some adjustments to the DLM profile. Current profile is
0.128M-55M Downstream 6dB, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-10M Upstream, Retransmission High
Retransmission = High for the upstream :hmm:
@j0hn or others. With not being on re-tx I cant recall - Re the upstream is the default still off or has that changed recently when they amended downstream?
@mpmc. If default is still off, then re-tx high could be an indication that there has been a lot of upstream errors which may fit with a HR type fault.
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I won't be any more specific than that, for privacy reasons you understand.
Very wise. The only reason I asked about the checker results is that the 57m reading looked odd when compared to your sync speed. If your line was only 57m then you have a big problem which is why I needed to check what the BTw checker estimated you should be getting.
It's obviously an error , from where from I have no idea. It's possible that it uses the attenuation reading from the modem to estimate line length.
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I'm honestly, not sure what to do TBF. The plusnet staff have said I could raise it as a fault, but I'm wary of the costs of the call out.
The only master socket in the place (rented) is in the lounge/dining room, there are no other sockets just the cat5 extension the OR guy installed to upstairs, which is connected to the VDSL port on the faceplate. Even connecting directly to the master test socket we still get the same speeds. Unless there is a secret hidden second master socket we don't know about :lol:
We had such an initial farce getting VDSL in the first place as it we were originally only getting 10mbps, we ended up being without internet for 3 months, and then another few months when someone slammed us.
The chances are your line is banded (capped), so using the router connected in the test socket wouldn't bear any fruit unless you had left it plugged in there for a decent period of time for the DLM to reverse whatever stabilisation factors it has applied. Or, an engineer DLM reset is performed which cuts out the above waiting period and is basically akin to having your circuit newly provided.
EDIT: whilst I was typing this, kitz posted up TWO replies of which I only saw the last one stating the DLM profile is up to 55M, so ignore my bit above. :)
I really wouldn't be concerned about a call-out fee, or whatever terminology they use, there are TWO potential fault conditions affecting your circuit using Plusnets own test request facilty.
1) Bridged Tap
2) Potential HR
You appear quite certain the issue does not lie within your premises, so I wouldn't hesitate on raising a fault ticket. :)
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Thanks ever so much for all the info folks, I really appreciate it! :)
Silly question time, what causes a HR fault?
I honestly wish I still had the old HG612 modem, so I could at least see all the line stats, but the engineer who came to fix the line before swapped it for an ECI one when I showed him the line stats after previously unlocking it! :( The ECI wasn't as good as the HG612 on our line, nor was the TP-W9980, the linksys x6200 in modem only mode, in use now is much better!
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There's a few scenarios can cause a HR (High Resistance) fault.
For example, dry/poorly soldered joints on PCB boards (such as routers/line cards in the fibre cabinet), poorly terminated wiring at any point from the fibre cabinet through to your data extension socket, overhead wires rubbing on tree branches or the like, damp or corrosion on the D-side cables (again, from the Cabinet to your premises).
It depends on the severity of the HR as to the severity of the action DLM takes against your circuits connection, by applying stabilisation/correction factors.
Kitz has outlined above a method for ascertaining how severe the HR is ...... a well-developed HR fault manifests itself as a crackling noise on the landline phone, and causing umpteen transmission errors on your router, and more often than not a subsequent loss of connection altogether. It doesn't sound like you have that particular level of HR ??
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There's a few scenarios can cause a HR (High Resistance) fault.
For example, dry/poorly soldered joints on PCB boards (such as routers/line cards in the fibre cabinet), poorly terminated wiring at any point from the fibre cabinet through to your data extension socket, overhead wires rubbing on tree branches or the like, damp or corrosion on the D-side cables (again, from the Cabinet to your premises).
It depends on the severity of the HR as to the severity of the action DLM takes against your circuits connection, by applying stabilisation/correction factors.
Kitz has outlined above a method for ascertaining how severe the HR is ...... a well-developed HR fault manifests itself as a crackling noise on the landline phone, and causing umpteen transmission errors on your router, and more often than not a subsequent loss of connection altogether. It doesn't sound like you have that particular level of HR ??
Thanks for the detailed explanation all! I think I'll first wait for the "line to settle" (I know it doesn't actually do this but PN will insist I wait), then I'll check the extension cable and ask for a DLM reset.
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Well, PN have raised it as an external fault, not sure if any of you guys on here had anything to do with that! :)
I decided to do a little bit of investigation myself, I recorded 17070 via my obi110 and asterisk.
I know this is very unlikely to show anything as the NTE filters the signals - the obi is directly connected to the NTE at the bottom, VDSL at the top - and there could be some noise from the obi in the recording, but interestingly I can hear a faint clicking noise, interference or the obi's power brick?
I've attempted to attach it to this post for your listening pleasure, any input welcome! :)
Too large, have a link (http://markclarkstone.co.uk/kitz/qlt.wav) instead.
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Link brings up nothing. :(
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Link brings up nothing. :(
Really, Anyone else having issues accessing?
mark@mark-desktop2:~$ wget --spider http://markclarkstone.co.uk/kitz/qlt.wav
Spider mode enabled. Check if remote file exists.
--2018-09-11 18:59:05-- http://markclarkstone.co.uk/kitz/qlt.wav
Resolving markclarkstone.co.uk (markclarkstone.co.uk)... 104.28.16.71, 104.28.17.71, 2400:cb00:2048:1::681c:1147, ...
Connecting to markclarkstone.co.uk (markclarkstone.co.uk)|104.28.16.71|:80... connected.
HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 200 OK
Length: 958444 (936K) [application/octet-stream]
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Really, Anyone else having issues accessing?
I can download the file without any problem.
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Same here.
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Able to access fine thanks.
Im not sure if it may be compression (or my ears), but even when I turn the volume right up I can't particularly hear anything that causes me concern. I can hear a slight digital type ticking but its actually clearer than my own line. :/
>> not sure if any of you guys on here had anything to do with that!
I don't think so... but one interesting point I noticed the other day when looking at your post on the the PN forums, the ISP rep (from memory - cant recall exact wording) suggested you go through the fault process. If by any chance it does come back as a 'no fault' and a charge... then I would be quoting back at them and disputing any charge due to what the rep said ;)
Good luck :)
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Re the link, I must be stupid or something, but all that happens, when I click on it, is that I arrive at same page, or a blank page, if I open in a new tab.
Weird: not me! ;)
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Im not sure if it may be compression (or my ears), but even when I turn the volume right up I can't particularly hear anything that causes me concern. I can hear a slight digital type ticking but its actually clearer than my own line. :/
I really coudn't hear anything that concerned me. I must admit that the recording appears to have been made at a very low level and increasing the gain at this end could cause distortion.
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Re the link, I must be stupid or something, but all that happens, when I click on it, is that I arrive at same page, or a blank page, if I open in a new tab.
Weird: not me! ;)
Right click and save-as.
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I had several faults including at least one high resistance fault on my new line and at one point my wife could hear distinct crackles when plugging an old-fashioned conventional phone into the test socket and dialling the quiet line number. (We have no phone service on the line, it is DSL-only.)
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@j0hn or others. With not being on re-tx I cant recall - Re the upstream is the default still off or has that changed recently when they amended downstream?
Still off by default on the upstream.
Retx High on the upstream shows there has likely been or still an issue with high upstream errors.
Remember line profile in Plusnet GEA tests (doubt it's just Plusnets though) are 13 days old.
I just listened to that audio clip.
Can that very fast repetitive clicking be heard on a wired telephone? wow if so.
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Right click and save-as.
Doh! Thank you! :-[
FWIW I hear a very rapid clicking. It seems faster than a sewing machine and very regular.
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Still off by default on the upstream.
Retx High on the upstream shows there has likely been or still an issue with high upstream errors.
Remember line profile in Plusnet GEA tests (doubt it's just Plusnets though) are 13 days old.
I just listened to that audio clip.
Can that very fast repetitive clicking be heard on a wired telephone? wow if so.
I honestly can't remember, but I can hear it with the dial-tone.
The engineer turned up unexpectedly while I was still in bed, and we weren't quite ready for him, everything all over the place as we're clearing out clutter! :blush: :-[
Thankfully he's given us - well, I say us but my brother/mother - time to tidy up a little :) and gone to check the line, will update when I know more!
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Update:
Just had a phone call from OR - The engineer couldn't complete the work as his shift had ended, someone's coming back on the 17th! Not sure what he did though as the PPP connection dropped and came back. Line sounds the same too. :shrug2:
He said he'd be back, but I guess not, so I have no idea what's going on!
Any insights are most welcome! ;D
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With no further detail, there's nothing to go on I'm afraid ....... one thing I don't understand is, 'Someone's coming back on the 17th' ... if an engineer has a task and is 'out of time', he either retains the same task for the next day or it goes back in the work-stacks for someone else to pick up.
Giving a definite date of the 17th (5 days from now), means the task has been re-appointed. Why ... is the bit we don't know ??
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With no further detail, there's nothing to go on I'm afraid ....... one thing I don't understand is, 'Someone's coming back on the 17th' ... if an engineer has a task and is 'out of time', he either retains the same task for the next day or it goes back in the work-stacks for someone else to pick up.
Giving a definite date of the 17th (5 days from now), means the task has been re-appointed. Why ... is the bit we don't know ??
I honestly have no idea, all that was asked was that he could give us a minute to move the dog (she's old), he said ok he'll check the line outside and come back, PPP then went dead not long after, I assume line too but didn't check. Then 2 hours went by and we get a call from OR on the mobile saying he was "from OR and calling on behalf of our ISP Plusnet."
Something strange is going on now though as the line checker now shows the bridge tap as U - see attached. The last test date seems a bit off too!
:shrug2:
Edit: Having used the line to talk to my brother on a mobile, i can indeed still hear that clicking, especially when there's voice. :-\
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Hmmmm .... tis' a strange one indeed. Or, at least to us on the outside looking in it appears strange .... there usually a very good reason why things are what they are.
Please keep us posted on how it goes though, if you will ?? :)
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Hmmmm .... tis' a strange one indeed. Or, at least to us on the outside looking in it appears strange .... there usually a very good reason why things are what they are.
Please keep us posted on how it goes though, if you will ?? :)
I will do.
In the meantime, (if it's possible) are you able to connect the router to the test socket with a normal DSL cable (not extended) just so we can rule out that wiring?
I very much doubt it's that CAT5 cable, it's one the OR guy installed when we first had VDSL. I remember the guy showing me the line tester - directly connected to the faceplate - It was showing as a fail then too. I'll eat my hat if it is that cable, but I'll get my brother to connect to the test socket as requested tomorrow to rule it out. :rain:
Well we shall see..
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Another update: I've connected the PN directly to the test socket using the filter/cables provided by plusnet
The PNH1 reports.
6. Data rate: 3440 / 26475
7. Maximum data rate: 3440 / 28110
8. Noise margin: 6.1 / 4.1
9. Line attenuation: 32.5 / 26.9
10. Signal attenuation: 32.6 / 23.5
11. Data sent/received: 0.8 MB / 3.2 MB
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Something still smells fishy, that upload seems rather low..
I seek the wisdom of the OR engineers who haunt this forum ;D
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With the very limited stats the Plusnet Hub One provides and without connecting any test equipment to the line I don't see any more info being at hand.
Your connected to the test socket still? If so you can ask Plusnet to run another GEA test and see if there's a bridge tap reported.
The upload is below the clean range but not anything way below what we regularly see.
A pair swap or any existing fault on the D-Side being fixed would be your only hope of the upstream increasing.
edit: auto correct embarrassment again.
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With the very limited stats the Plusnet Hub One provides and without connecting any test equipment to the line I don't see any more info being at hand.
Your connected to the test socket still? If so you can ask Planet to run another GEA test and see if there's a bridge tap reported.
The upload is below the clean range but not anything way below what we regularly see.
A pair swap or any existing fault on the D-Side being fixed would be your only hope of the upstream increasing.
Thanks for your reply j0hn!
I did ask but apparently they can"t "Thanks @mpmc, I'm afraid as you have an engineer booked it won't actually allow me to run a GEA test, I know you weren't really having many issues before anyway, but can you see any difference your side at all?"
:shrug2:
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. . . you can ask Planet to run another GEA test . . .
"Planet"? Hmm . . . "Plusnet" methinks. ;)
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I suspect the fault may be due to the thunder/lightning we had - due to the hot weather not long ago - that took out our complete NTE.
From my experience OR engineers have it rough, the 6 we had (3 that were called out too but went to the wrong address) were constantly being called for other jobs to the point where they had to keep stopping to answer the phone! :whip: One poor bugger was called out to us at 7am to fix our line after a few others couldn't, he REALLY wasn't happy.
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I suspect the fault may be due to the thunder/lightning we had - due to the hot weather not long ago - that took out our complete NTE.
There is also a possibility that a degree of damage was caused to the cabling and joints. Not enough to be present as a "hard" fault but sufficient to give intermittent problems.
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Wow! I'm impressed! Notes from the engineer states that we denied access? Complete lies!
As already stated, we needed time to sort the dog out, he said he would check the line outside and come back!
It doesn't help that he turns up out of the blue! Now I'm sure we'll get a charge! Anyone have a clue what a Virtual solution is?
TIA
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Wow! I'm impressed! Notes from the engineer states that we denied access? Complete lies!
As already stated, we needed time to sort the dog out, he said he would check the line outside and come back!
It doesn't help that he turns up out of the blue! Now I'm sure we'll get a charge! Anyone have a clue what a Virtual solution is?
TIA
That answers the question why it has been reappointed then.
Wearing my OR business hat for a minute .... appointments are made between 0800-1300 and 1300-1800 ..... we can and will. turn up at any point between the appointment times .... ie: someone will be first at 0800, and someone will be last at nearly 1300. I still get gob-smacked when folk open the door after I've damn near smashed it down, saying they didn't think we'd be there so early !! #thicksods
Also, the service provider will have requested that any pets are locked away somewhere (backyard, different room etc), and that they haven't smoked in the house for the past 2hrs.
Again, the amount of thick you-know-what's we come across, that have a fag hanging out of their gob upon our arrival saying that their pet lion-killing dog is, "Friendly most of the time" ... is unbelievable.
Taking my business hat off now and I will say that if I arrange an appointment for any kind of service, I will ensure I am available between the required times and will have met the 'required-of-me' expectations.
I do feel you have been kinda hard done to mpmc, in as much as if I do have contact with the EU and the 'wait time' is acceptable (10mins tops), then I would wait ...... anything other than that and it's adios amigos. :)
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I have to say, I had an engineer appointment on the 7th, AM. 750am I had a call from Jessica to say she would be here in 10 minutes, and she was lovely. Talked me through everything and did a great job. It was a pleasure.
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That answers the question why it has been reappointed then.
* Wearing my OR business hat for a minute .... appointments are made between 0800-1300 and 1300-1800 ..... we can and will. turn up at any point between the appointment times .... ie: someone will be first at 0800, and someone will be last at nearly 1300. ** I still get gob-smacked when folk open the door after I've damn near smashed it down, saying they didn't think we'd be there so early !! #thicksods
*** Also, the service provider will have requested that any pets are locked away somewhere (backyard, different room etc), and that they haven't smoked in the house for the past 2hrs.
Again, the amount of thick you-know-what's we come across, that have a fag hanging out of their gob upon our arrival saying that their pet lion-killing dog is, "Friendly most of the time" ... is unbelievable.
Taking my business hat off now and I will say that if I arrange an appointment for any kind of service, I will ensure I am available between the required times and will have met the 'required-of-me' expectations.
**** I do feel you have been kinda hard done to mpmc, in as much as if I do have contact with the EU and the 'wait time' is acceptable (10mins tops), then I would wait ...... anything other than that and it's adios amigos. :)
*
We weren't even aware we had an appointment. PN just made one, and told us we'd hear more within ~72 hours, nothing about an appointment. And it was supposed to be an "external" fault. The OR guy didn't even ring, he just turned up (yes the phone was plugged in). We didn't stop him from entering, just needed a few mins (5 at most) to sort the dog out.
**
We're always up early as we were expecting the shopping an hour-or-so later. No problems when we're aware someone is coming. OR are usually pretty good at ringing up first to let us know they're on the way. Saying that we have had a few that never did & just turned up anyway, but that was when we had an appointment and we knew about it.
***
We always make sure the dog is out of the way, if we know someone is coming, it's just less hassle that way. We've never been told to do this by any ISP, and I've never heard that smoking rule before (horrible habit and someone here smokes, absolutely hate it).
****
This is absolutely fair during an appointment slot.
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If we'd honestly known he was coming, or he'd rang before hand none of this would've happened and we'd have been ready.
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Have you looked through all the tickets to make sure there wasn't one about an appointment? It wouldn't surprise me to find there is something there but you were not emailed/alerted to the appointment.
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Have you looked through all the tickets to make sure there wasn't one about an appointment? It wouldn't surprise me to find there is something there but you were not emailed/alerted to the appointment.
Yep, I went through all the tickets, and the only one that mentions the "appointment" is open. The one before that was 1:01pm, Saturday 8 Sep 2018, and that was for opting out of marketing.
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Fair do's, mpmc ..... and I apologise for what was as an abrupt-sounding post. You can not be held responsible in any way, shape or form if you hadn't been informed of an engineering visit.
Regarding the pre-visit phone call. We call it RARA (Ring Ahead - Ring After). Two things ... I will never ring my first 0800 visit as it is not in working hours and I think has a potential of annoying the EU. Also, I never do the 'Ring After' (nor does anybody at all I know), as it's akin to stalking and can be misconstrued as stalking in certain circumstances. It actually happened with a lad on our patch about 10yrs back (No, not me :P ).
I just get quite protective over things of this nature, regarding appointments and engineers. You really would not believe the cr5p we have to put up with sometimes, through EU confusion, ISP wrongly appointed times, EU's houses being total and utter sh1t-holes that are health hazards, junkies and drunks, irate EU's ............ luckily, these are in the minority in comparison .... but still too many for my liking.
:)
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Fair do's, mpmc ..... and I apologise for what was as an abrupt-sounding post. You can not be held responsible in any way, shape or form if you hadn't been informed of an engineering visit.
Regarding the pre-visit phone call. We call it RARA (Ring Ahead - Ring After). Two things ... I will never ring my first 0800 visit as it is not in working hours and I think has a potential of annoying the EU. Also, I never do the 'Ring After' (nor does anybody at all I know), as it's akin to stalking and can be misconstrued as stalking in certain circumstances. It actually happened with a lad on our patch about 10yrs back (No, not me :P ).
I just get quite protective over things of this nature, regarding appointments and engineers. You really would not believe the cr5p we have to put up with sometimes, through EU confusion, ISP wrongly appointed times, EU's houses being total and utter sh1t-holes that are health hazards, junkies and drunks, irate EU's ............ luckily, these are in the minority in comparison .... but still too many for my liking.
:)
No need to apologise, It wasn't abrupt-sounding at all. It was actually quite informative, as is this post. I put the blame on plusnet for not telling us a date and a time if an internal check was needed. I've complained to PN about it, not that I expect anything to come of it. :wall:
I was impressed with PN to begin with but I'm starting to regret joining them now, especially if they send out engineers without OKing it first. I will certainly be annoyed if we get a charge for this call-out. :crazy:
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Not sure if something is not working correctly with Plusnet or BTOR but I too have had an engineer call to test/check internally with no appointment. Luckily I was in as I do not see how the engineer could have done as good of a job as he did without access - if this is common practice BTOR must waste quite a bit of end users and engineering time. End result of my fault saga was really positive though but I really had to work for it.
One thing that needs to improve is communication as it was poor. It would have been much less stressful experience if BTOR and Plusnet talked to each other and kept the end user informed together with the engineers being a bit more straight with the end users.
From the posts on this forum I do get the impression that BTOR are trying to improve though and my problem was close to a year ago now.
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Not sure if something is not working correctly with Plusnet or BTOR but I too have had an engineer call to test/check internally with no appointment. Luckily I was in as I do not see how the engineer could have done as good of a job as he did without access - if this is common practice BTOR must waste quite a bit of end users and engineering time. End result of my fault saga was really positive though but I really had to work for it.
One thing that needs to improve is communication as it was poor. It would have been much less stressful experience if BTOR and Plusnet talked to each other and kept the end user informed together with the engineers being a bit more straight with the end users.
From the posts on this forum I do get the impression that BTOR are trying to improve though and my problem was close to a year ago now.
Exactly this. credit to OR though someone did ring, but why this was OR instead of PN I don't know. I thought OR weren't suppose to "deal" with end users. :hmm:
The re-do is today, let's hope it goes to plan! :fingers:
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Well, that was a waste of time. The poor guy was here from 2-6pm and now it's worse! :'(
From what he told my brother..
- Blamed our router(s), went to try his own, couldn't get a connection. *
- There's supposed to just 2 wires going into our house, he went in the manhole & found 6! "replaced the lot" (how?), no change, still a FAIL.
- Thinks the wires from the manhole to the house are duff, says we need a Local Network Engineer
* I got my brother to install the plusnet hub one directly to the test socket.
---
I don't know what he did but at one point the plusnet hub was syncing at 28400 down and 3475 up! SNRM for down was 3.3! up was 6.2!
We're now on..
5. DSL uptime: 0 days, 00:25:13
6. Data rate: 3664 / 20132
7. Maximum data rate: 3664 / 23374
8. Noise margin: 6.2 / 6.2
9. Line attenuation: 32.6 / 26.5
10. Signal attenuation: 32.6 / 23.1
What happens next? No idea..
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Again .... can't glean anything concrete from that information :no:
All I can do is guess what has happened ??. Which is, that the multi-core underground cable feeding your house has gone faulty.
We would normally have either 1pr, 2pr or 5pr cable feeding the premises, so "6 wires" doesn't fit anywhere ??? But it sounds like he might have tested the spare pairs within the cable and found them to all be faulty ???
Another confusing bit is the, "Local Network Engineer" ......... if the original engineer has 'UG (Underground) skills' with which to work in the manholes, then he should be eligible to input an A55 document to provide a new UG cable from manhole to premises ???
As always, there may be different geographical working practices to my area, and of course how 'we' are interpreting what has been said and done may easily be off-target ??
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Again .... can't glean anything concrete from that information :no:
All I can do is guess what has happened ??. Which is, that the multi-core underground cable feeding your house has gone faulty.
We would normally have either 1pr, 2pr or 5pr cable feeding the premises, so "6 wires" doesn't fit anywhere ??? But it sounds like he might have tested the spare pairs within the cable and found them to all be faulty ???
Another confusing bit is the, "Local Network Engineer" ......... if the original engineer has 'UG (Underground) skills' with which to work in the manholes, then he should be eligible to input an A55 document to provide a new UG cable from manhole to premises ???
As always, there may be different geographical working practices to my area, and of course how 'we' are interpreting what has been said and done may easily be off-target ??
There was a bit of a language issue, as the guy was Chinese or Korean and he spoke very fast! I couldn't even make out what he was saying and I was upstairs listening in! I heard the guy before him fine. Bare in mind we're midlanders here and we speak fast too, but this guy was on another level :giggle: Maybe he meant six pairs? Who knows.
There appears to be no response from PN yet. Honestly I wish I could PM you our number so you could take a quick look (if you wanted :)) to see if you can find anything your end without getting in trouble. :angel:
No one here seems to have a clue! And it's not like they haven't tried! :comp:
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Asked PN for an update, engineer had this to say.
Engineer Notes / e-chat
17/09/2018 16:55
I cannot complete this task because I do not have the skills required to complete the task and could not obtain assistance on the day. I am passing to an engineer with track and locate equipment because the fault has been proven underground but I have been unable to locate the exact position of the fault. The line has been proven good to the DP, Pse see notes. No fault conditions were detected towards the end customer. Please see additional information PQT and VDSL tests are passed in NTE5A however when the customer router connected amber broadband light on. Connected my spare router still same issue. Spoke to DCOE and checked authentication and all ok. Did lift & shift to new fibre ports E & D 790 still same. Replaced spare pair from DP130 to NTE5A still same. The AC balance is little bit low which is 50. Couldn't locate the joint between the DP130 to the customer premises so that track & locate engineer require to investigate.
I understood some of that, can anyone (BS maybe?) translate the engineer speak please? ;D
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Asked PN for an update, engineer had this to say.
I understood some of that, can anyone (BS maybe?) translate the engineer speak please? ;D
Now then, that's better .... :)
I suppose it's pretty much easy to follow, but as I see it the engineer is obviously wanting the underground joint between the DP and your premises found by using a 'Cat and Genny'.
I've no idea why, but as the years roll by this seems to have become a separate skill these days, hence the request for another engineer to perform said task.
It appears all is well and good at the DP, but the AC Balance figure from there to your premises is very low at 50dB, digital circuits like a higher value than that, some quote 60dB as an absolute minimum ... others 65dB.
Aprrox 1/3 of that statement is auto-generated by our job-closure template and can be confusing when compared to the engineers notes ..... for example the bit that says 'No fault conditions were detected towards the end customer' .... ignore that.
I do have a slight niggle in that the engineer appears to be chasing an 'authentication issue', (he's the man on site and will know far better than I, sat on my settee), I thought you were reporting a different fault condition ??
Anyhow's ... at least something's happening and hopefully the issue will be put to bed soon ??. :)
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Now then, that's better .... :)
I suppose it's pretty much easy to follow, but as I see it the engineer is obviously wanting the underground joint between the DP and your premises found by using a 'Cat and Genny'.
I've no idea why, but as the years roll by this seems to have become a separate skill these days, hence the request for another engineer to perform said task.
It appears all is well and good at the DP, but the AC Balance figure from there to your premises is very low at 50dB, digital circuits like a higher value than that, some quote 60dB as an absolute minimum ... others 65dB.
Aprrox 1/3 of that statement is auto-generated by our job-closure template and can be confusing when compared to the engineers notes ..... for example the bit that says 'No fault conditions were detected towards the end customer' .... ignore that.
I do have a slight niggle in that the engineer appears to be chasing an 'authentication issue', (he's the man on site and will know far better than I, sat on my settee), I thought you were reporting a different fault condition ??
Anyhow's ... at least something's happening and hopefully the issue will be put to bed soon ??. :)
Thank you ever so much for translating :)
I was a bit confused by that too. Our router(s) connect fine! As I said, I merely asked for a GEA test, which failed (and is still failing) as our upload didn't make sense compared to the download, that and the weird clicking noise. And as you know a potential HR was shown.
I still think those extra wires he found were our neighbours, hence why he couldn't auth?
Poking your engineers crystal ball here.. What happens if the UG engineer, can't find the fault?
TIA
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Hmmm ?? The $64,000 question ??
Trying to get a handle on your job, and I would say (again, guesswork from my sofa), that you have had a decent engineer thus far. He appears to have spent a decent amount of time and effort on the task.
So, it is very hopeful that this last UG joint is where the problem lies ?? There is no reason why it can't be found using a 'Cat & Genny' and a metal lid detector .... done it literally hundreds of times in the past. :)
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Hmmm ?? The $64,000 question ??
Trying to get a handle on your job, and I would say (again, guesswork from my sofa), that you have had a decent engineer thus far. ** He appears to have spent a decent amount of time and effort on the task.
** So, it is very hopeful that this last UG joint is where the problem lies ?? There is no reason why it can't be found using a 'Cat & Genny' and a metal lid detector .... done it literally hundreds of times in the past. :)
*
Not the first time we've had an engineer that long trying to fix a fault, but yes he did his best :)
IIRC, That engineer was baffled as to why the line was OK but his tools said Fail. More than likely the same problem.
**
I really hope so! I had to Google what a Cat & Genny was (https://www.3btraining.com/utilities/cat-genny/) :lol:
----
I'm going to assume the "DP" is under that manhole near the house, and the problem is the wire from that to the socket inside. I expect they'll patch it up? Why not just replace the lot? Then again, I doubt they'll bother seeing as our area is due for FTTP or cable by the end of 2019.
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I'm going to assume the "DP" is under that manhole near the house, and the problem is the wire from that to the socket inside. I expect they'll patch it up? Why not just replace the lot? Then again, I doubt they'll bother seeing as our area is due for FTTP or cable by the end of 2019.
Without being there on-site, I couldn't even guess where the DP is on a UG-fed estate. I think the best course of action is to just wait and see what happens next ... we can speculate our lives away. ;D ;D
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Another engineer turned up unexpectedly without a call or anything (all phones are working) - even though PN put a note on the task for OR. And once again he was asked to give us a few mins to sort things out, said he'd look outside. Took the manhole cover up, took a look and went round the side..
My brother went outside to tell him he could come in, he waved and drove off.. :shrug2: I wonder what the notes will say this time? :sob:
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Keep us updated please, be interesting to see where this goes ??
He may have been looking at where to provide a new UG feed to your premises ?? Again, pure speculation.
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Keep us updated please, be interesting to see where this goes ??
He may have been looking at where to provide a new UG feed to your premises ?? Again, pure speculation.
I bet you're right!
I had to explain everything all over again, I was on the loo at the time so had to yell downstairs ** :blush: :-[
** Readers note: I have CP so need help getting around, including getting on/off the loo :blush: :-[
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Ha ha ...... don't worry about that .... I spend most of my time conversing with my missus in the same manner !!
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:rain: :wall: OR rang again, another appointment :scare: I bet he'll "say/tick" he couldn't gain access (again). He sat in his van on a phone/device for 10 minutes, he looked up waved at my brother and drove off.
I give up..
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:rain: :wall: OR rang again, another appointment :scare: I bet he'll "say/tick" he couldn't gain access (again). He sat in his van on a phone/device for 10 minutes, he looked up waved at my brother and drove off.
I give up..
Strange indeed ??
Do you mean your ISP rang again ... as OR won't ring you to arrange an appointment ??
I'm hoping that this has been a 'work allocation' cock-up, and that the only issue left to resolve via a new appointment, is for you to sign a 'permission to dig' form for the laying of new duct work on your premises ???
Other than that, I haven't a clue ??
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Strange indeed ??
Do you mean your ISP rang again ... as OR won't ring you to arrange an appointment ??
I'm hoping that this has been a 'work allocation' cock-up, and that the only issue left to resolve via a new appointment, is for you to sign a 'permission to dig' form for the laying of new duct work on your premises ???
Other than that, I haven't a clue ??
It was OR.. well someone from OR overseas based in India going by the guys accent.. Still waiting for Plusnet to give us an update. Will hopefully know more then.
The guy today wanted to come in and check the line again :shrug2:, which was fine, if he waited a few mins, didn't think the OR guys are on such a tight clock :(
This is turning into a nightmare :/
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I bet you're right!
I had to explain everything all over again, I was on the loo at the time so had to yell downstairs ** :blush: :-[
** Readers note: I have CP so need help getting around, including getting on/off the loo :blush: :-[
No need for :blush:. Life has not dealt you good cards.
But butting in, does BT/BTOR make special allowance for folk such as you, who may be unable to give immediate admittance; have a scheme? BS?
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There used to be what we called 'Community engineers' years ago ..... they were trained to deal with people with various disabilities .... but like I say, this was years ago !!
I would imagine the ISP's will be the ones to 'own' the situation. I wonder if, as part of their plethora of scripted questions, whether disability crops up ?? I would like to think so.
I can say for certain that if the EU has requested that certain notes go on the task for when we pick the job up, then it usually happens.
For example .... there could be a certain private 'password' the EU want us to say before the EU opens the door, or the job notes will state to 'Knock VERY loudly and wait, as the EU is hard of hearing and struggles moving' .....
So I suppose to answer your question Ren ... yes, OR are very accommodating when we are made aware of special circumstances.
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Did you notice if it was an OpenReach van, or a Kelly Communications van? The Kelly vans have something like "working on behalf on OpenReach" or some such.
I've only ever had such treatment once, and it was a Kelly's engineer.
They are paid per job I believe.
OpenReach employees will have time targets, but they aren't paid per job in the same manner.
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No need for :blush:. Life has not dealt you good cards.
But butting in, does BT/BTOR make special allowance for folk such as you, who may be unable to give immediate admittance; have a scheme? BS?
It is what it is, no use complaining about it. I hate using the "disability card" (horrible name) for anything, in this case it isn't a factor anyway as my brother able's to deal with it.
Did you notice if it was an OpenReach van, or a Kelly Communications van? The Kelly vans have something like "working on behalf on OpenReach" or some such.
I've only ever had such treatment once, and it was a Kelly's engineer.
They are paid per job I believe.
OpenReach employees will have time targets, but they aren't paid per job in the same manner.
I asked my brother this, he says he wasn't sure but using Google I showed him some Kelly Coms vans & he thinks he saw their logo on the side, so this might be the case. :sob:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WD73a1trdJ0[/youtube]
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....I hate using the "disability card" (horrible name) for anything...
Congratulations!:) Disability warriors would want trains with an out of order taken out of service, or the right to climb Everest on someone's back.
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Another update.. A BT line engineer rang :congrats: and wanted to come look at our socket. From what my brother said, the guy was a bit vague, he replaced a few wires (again), said he told off the Asian guy for not noticing the problem something about a bunch of wires that should've been removed :shrug2:
Hopefully will know more when Plusnet update us! Not sure if that appointment for Thursday still stands or not. :shrug2:
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This is developing into quite a saga. On the positive side, you are getting some attention . . . How good is the attention remains to be seen.
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This is developing into quite a saga. On the positive side, you are getting some attention . . . How good is the attention remains to be seen.
Indeed, Plusnet must really be poking OR. I did another line test and there's still that faint clicking though. I guess this is as good as it gets for this line..
Line stats from my x6200 don't look much different.
Status: SHOWTIME.
Downstream Rate: 25497 Kbps
Upstream Rate: 4523 Kbps
I'd like a lot more stats but Linksys only provide the basics. I would connect one of the home hubs but they don't have modem only mode. :( There are very few vdsl openwrt supported about, ones that don't need a soldering iron!
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This is getting silly!
Plusnet (https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/GEA-test-request-and-static-IP-questions/m-p/1574460#M83011)I've tried to run a GEA test on your line but unfortunately it's saying "Data not available from OR Test" which implies that there may still be an issue. Please can you keep an eye on your connection over the next day or so and let us know how you get on? If you experience any further problems with your connection we can escalate this back to our suppliers for further investigation - I've cancelled the appointment that was booked in for tomorrow afternoon for now.
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If an Openreach technician was to write out an A1024 for that section of underground cable and submit it, ultimately, that cable section would be replaced. I can only assume that the relevant criteria have not been matched. :-\
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If an Openreach technician was to write out an A1024 for that section of underground cable and submit it, ultimately, that cable section would be replaced. I can only assume that the relevant criteria have not been matched. :-\
Thanks for your reply :) I have no clue what an A1024 is :p.
There appears to be no notes from the engineer this time, he was a different kind of engineer though, one that does the phone lines, from what my brother said he'd replaced some wires and "improved our broadband as best he could, from 45% to 55%", percent of what, I have no clue!
As I previously mentioned, the line doesn't seem to be any different, the upload has improved slightly but it is still pretty poor and that clicking is still present on the line, the engineer didn't mention anything about that.
I also requested that the appointment is cancelled, if it's no longer required, as I suspect we would've been charged for the visit and the engineer turning up and saying "I don't know what they've sent me out for!" I left it up to Plusnet though as they have more info than we do.
So, I suspect we're basically stuck with a dodgy line, at least until FTTP! I really really hope we don't get any lightning, heavy rain or someone else around here complains about their line as that generally means curtains for our broadband!
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Get it moved to AAISP. They will sort OR out.
Edit: not correct to blame BT, but OR.
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Get it moved to AAISP. They will sort OR out.
AAISP helped me sort out a problem on my Plusnet line long before I moved to them. That's the main reason I moved to AAISP when I called time on Plusnet. I wanted to know that the support people on the other end of the line when I called about a problem knew what they were talking about!
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I have no clue what an A1024 is :p.
It's the means by which Openreach personnel log/report defective infrastructure/plant.
There appears to be no notes from the engineer this time, he was a different kind of engineer though, one that does the phone lines, from what my brother said he'd replaced some wires and "improved our broadband as best he could, from 45% to 55%", percent of what, I have no clue!
He would have been a PSTN (network) technician, rather than a multi-skilled technician who would normally attend for an Internet access/broadband circuit problem.
The only parameter, of which I am aware, that is quoted in terms of percentage is the circuit's AC balance. For a good, reliable, broadband based Internet access service the AC balance of the pair should preferably be 60% or higher. Perhaps Black Sheep will be able to comment, when he next passes?
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Get it moved to AAISP. They will sort OR out.
Edit: not correct to blame BT, but OR.
AAISP helped me sort out a problem on my Plusnet line long before I moved to them. That's the main reason I moved to AAISP when I called time on Plusnet. I wanted to know that the support people on the other end of the line when I called about a problem knew what they were talking about!
Sadly AAISP is a little too expensive, especially given the usage caps, we'd hit those before a month is over (3 people using Netflix,Twitch, Sky Go/On demand and online game downloads).
I actually chatted to an AAISP rep over IRC about our line as we'd been slammed and BT wouldn't tell us who the receiving ISP was, AAISP weren't allowed to tell us but they did go and check our line! I can see why they're expensive, you do get what you pay for.
It's the means by which Openreach personnel log/report defective infrastructure/plant.
He would have been a PSTN (network) technician, rather than a multi-skilled technician who would normally attend for an Internet access/broadband circuit problem.
The only parameter, of which I am aware, that is quoted in terms of percentage is the circuit's AC balance. For a good, reliable, broadband based Internet access service the AC balance of the pair should preferably be 60% or higher. Perhaps Black Sheep will be able to comment, when he next passes?
Thanks for explaining that :) much appreciated! And thank you to everyone who's posted on this thread, it's been more help than you know :)
For now though it looks like this mess is over, I don't think it's going to get any better. I will of course update if anything changes!
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Perhaps Black Sheep will be able to comment, when he next passes?
I've nothing more to add really, B*Cat ..... it would take forever to 2nd guess what may have happened and to then explain the subsequent steps for each scenario ??
It does on the surface appear to be a catastrophe though ....... :(
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Mpmc it might be worth telling them that, that it is a bit too expensive - ‘what can you do’? There was a previous post about ‘gaming the system’ to reduce costs, doing something complicated with rotating changing allowances or something.
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Sadly AAISP is a little too expensive, especially given the usage caps, we'd hit those before a month is over (3 people using Netflix,Twitch, Sky Go/On demand and online game downloads).
Is your typical monthly usage (download only) more than 800GB? If not you can definitely game the system and pay an average of only £7.50 per month over the cost of the basic Home::1 with 200GB allowance.
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Mpmc it might be worth telling them that, that it is a bit too expensive - ‘what can you do’? There was a previous post about ‘gaming the system’ to reduce costs, doing something complicated with rotating changing allowances or something.
Yep, I saw that, unfortunately, I`m really bad with numbers, and I doubt I`d remember to do the juggling correctly! :D
Is your typical monthly usage (download only) more than 800GB? If not you can definitely game the system and pay an average of only £7.50 per month over the cost of the basic Home::1 with 200GB allowance.
We use about 1.5TB a month :angel: :angel:
On a different note, another OR guy called, asked why we opened another fault. ??? Told him the guy had already been on Tues and I had already asked Plusnet to cancel the Thurs (today) appointment, obviously they didn't.. :-\ He went on to explain...
- The engineer that came removed a load of wires that had been tacked on over the years!
- Due to our line length, 800km from the cab, 25mbps is the best we can get.
- They can`t do much about low upload.
- Our line is aluminium which is crap for broadband - I knew alu was bad, but didn't know we had it
So folks, this is what we`re left with until FTTP or whatever. :'(
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That is bad news :(
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I've nothing more to add really, B*Cat .....
Thank you for looking and commenting . . . for that confirms I have not missed something obvious! :)
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Thank you for looking and commenting . . . for that confirms I have not missed something obvious! :)
:drink:
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Sigh.. I guess it wasn't the end after all.
I asked PN for a GEA test again just to see if the line had improved as the engineer said it would have, PN said they couldn't run one due to "bad records" and they'd send it back to Openreach.. Guess who turns up unannounced at our door at 4pm. :-\ My brother explained to him that someone had already been and fixed our broadband, he still wanted to come in, but couldn't as mum isn't very well & set up camp downstairs.
I only asked for a GEA test, not an OR engineer, it seems that PN can't do that so send out an OR engineer WITHOUT an appointment yet again! :lol:
At this rate I think we'll have all the local OR Engineers turning up at once.
Wow, just wow, I suppose I'm partially to blame though, I did ask for another GEA test, this isn't working so PN poke OR, who in turn possibly see a FAIL and send the broadbandulance (tm). :D
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:o :( :-X
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Haha broadbandulance.
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Haha broadbandulance.
[youtube]https://youtu.be/6vGx3TW7Gv4?t=7[/youtube]
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So they sent me a GEA test result...
Test Outcome Pass
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location OK
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 25.7 Mbps
Upstream Speed 4.6 Mbps
Appointment Required N
Fault Report Advised N
NTE Power Status PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result Pass
Bridge Tap Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise Not Detected
Cross Talk Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate 0.0
Customer Traffic Level Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology VDSL
Parameters MIN MAX AVG
Down Stream Line Rate -1 Mbps -1 Mbps -1 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate -1 Mbps -1 Mbps -1 Mbps
Up Time -1 Sec -1 Sec -1 Sec
Retrains -1 -1 -1
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2018-10-02T18:15:13Z 2018-10-02T18:30:13Z
Ingress Code Violation 0 1
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 0 0
Severely Errored Seconds 0 0
Unavailable Seconds 0 0
The response on the PN forum..
I've updated the ticket again with the GEA test you requested. For some reason while a fault is open GEA won't run on your line, I think part of that is because background records are being updated because of the aluminium issue you noted and that will take them a while. Then when we've been testing to get you that GEA because it can't run it auto fails and then auto raises issuing our an external engineer that has then been trying to gain access. Sorry about that!
:-\
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OK out of the blue we get another GEA test (see attached) on the PN ticket after I'd asked them to consider the issue resolved/closed.
followed by this..
Thanks for your patience, to progress your fault we need to arrange an engineer visit. Please reply to this message with 3 available timeslots for an engineers visit. The available timeslots are weekdays either between 8am & 1pm or between 1pm & 6pm.
Please note if an engineer visits your premises and is unable to gain access or If the fault is found to be caused by your equipment, internal wiring or as a result of damage to BT equipment a charge of £65 will apply.
Please do not hesitate to get back in touch online at http://portal.plus.net/wizard or by phone on 0800 432 0200 if we can be of further assistance.
The only thing I can see as a "fault" is the high errors, but the net/line has been fine :fingers:. I have no idea who they'd send to "fix" this, if there is ANYTHING to fix.
I chatted with my mother about all this and she remembers OR coming out when we were without internet for 3 odd months - to look for where the line enters the house. She told me it went through the front garden, enters the house where the kitchen window is (under the soil), under the kitchen and directly into the living/dining room.
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I'm honestly getting sick of this. I don't know why they constantly insist on sending engineers out, surely they should have access to all the notes from the engineers? The engineer has told me (as already mentioned here) there is nothing else they can do because we have an aluminium line, surely PN can see this?
Sigh..
My questions are..
- Do I ignore this and tell PN not to bother?
- Ask for a new line to be installed? I doubt this would fix anything anyway.
I thank each and everyone of you for your input on this, you've all been extremely helpful :).
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I see that both this current and the last test show "Bridge Tap Detected".
I would be inclined to ask Plusnet exactly what they think another engineering visit will achieve and suggest that they review all the previous notes. :-\
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I see that both this current and the last test show "Bridge Tap Detected".
I would be inclined to ask Plusnet exactly what they think another engineering visit will achieve and suggest that they review all the previous notes. :-\
Sigh.. Our line has failed the GEA test again, no surprise, it's been raining!
I've attached what I've sent, their reply and my response so I don't have to type it out again - I've removed identifying information.
PN really want to get this sorted. It's interesting because BT themselves couldn't care less, PN appear to be like a dog with a bone :D
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That latest GEA Test now shows both a HR joint and a bridging tap. The HR joint does not surprise me, knowing that aluminium cables are present in the D-side.
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That latest GEA Test now shows both a HR joint and a bridging tap. The HR joint does not surprise me, knowing that aluminium cables are present in the D-side.
Unless OR are going to rip out all the cabling and replace it (I doubt this), there is little more they can do. Maybe Black Sheep has some ideas?
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Unless OR are going to rip out all the cabling and replace it (I doubt this), there is little more they can do. Maybe Black Sheep has some ideas?
The only idea I have is that PN escalate this as a 'Chairman's office' task .... which should require the visiting engineer to liaise with our triage team before the task is closed.
The reason being not all engineers will have access to or choose to use, the WHOOSH tool that performs the kind of in-depth GEA test you post above. The triage team obviously do, ensuring the elusive HR/Bridged Tap issue has been isolated before closure.
If the mandatory and usual method of faulting can't identify the issues (PQT, FT2 and DSL Close out test), then the engineer will have to resort to simply connecting his HHT at various points along the network and allow the triage team to perform the GEA tests, until the problem is identified.
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Thanks for your replies folks. :thumbs:
I think based on what you have said BS, I'll have to be in the room this time and let them look at the actual GEA tests PN are seeing. Why oh why did they use aluminium! :(
Will update next week when I know more.
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Why oh why did they use aluminium! :(
Copper costs over twice as much as aluminium?
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Copper costs over twice as much as aluminium?
Very true, and these places were built in the 80s.
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I don't believe the "fault" will disappear when everything dries out.
Every single test that's been done has showed a bridge tap.
I would take the offer of an engineer and make sure they advise you of the time of the appointment.
Ask Plusnet to request the engineer calls before attending to give you plenty time to be ready.
Sounds like you've had a few bad experiences with engineers recently. Don't let that put you off getting the issue resolved though.
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I don't believe the "fault" will disappear when everything dries out.
Every single test that's been done has showed a bridge tap.
I would take the offer of an engineer and make sure they advise you of the time of the appointment.
Ask Plusnet to request the engineer calls before attending to give you plenty time to be ready.
Sounds like you've had a few bad experiences with engineers recently. Don't let that put you off getting the issue resolved though.
I've requested one for next week - tues in the afternoon (a lot going on here right now). This mysterious bridge tap is the thing that's annoying me most, we have no idea where it is and I don't think OR know.
The proper OR engineers are fine they do call it's the sub contractors that don't.
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A very unusual result if the 'bridged tap' is genuinely clear of your premises ??
The only other likely places to have a 'bridged tap' fault, are ...... on IDC connectors in the cabinet, in the Cabinet box (where all the UG cables meet) if a Cab changeover has been performed and the temporary 'tee joint' still left in place, or at the DP (if it is an overhead feed).
That info is 'in general terms' and not just your case in isolation, mpmc ..... :)
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A very unusual result if the 'bridged tap' is genuinely clear of your premises ??
The only other likely places to have a 'bridged tap' fault, are ...... on IDC connectors in the cabinet, in the Cabinet box (where all the UG cables meet) if a Cab changeover has been performed and the temporary 'tee joint' still left in place, or at the DP (if it is an overhead feed).
* That info is 'in general terms' and not just your case in isolation, mpmc ..... :)
Yes, as far as we can tell we only have the one master socket. The socket when we first moved into this place was a single crusty LJU socket, that was replaced when we upgraded to VDSL. I do remember cabling that went along the skirting connected as an extension, which was removed as it went nowhere. The lady that lived here had limited sight and had a phone in the main bedroom.
* Understood :)
Update!
They've done another GEA test internal notes read: Poor sync speeds
Escalation raised... and said..
We've raised this as a escalation with our suppliers due to the length of time this has been ongoing and the multiple engineers visits. We'll update you when we know further
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Looks like the end, thank god.
29/10/2018 10:59
There is an open in progress task on the circuit at open Reach end : 1-xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
I completed the ring ahead with the end customer and progressed to their premises. End customer informed of connection issue. I have resolved the fault at the end customer's equipment. * There was a problem identified within the end customer's equipment but was not fixed as it is not owned by Open reach .Engineer has visited end customer premises.**Customer's modem / router is not plugged into the NTE- network termination equipment master socket. Final PQT performed at the NTE back plate .The test passed with amber parameters on 26/10/2018 12:29.Final xDSL test performed at the NTE / NTP- network termination point .xDSL test indicated line was OK on 26/10/2018.Final Fast Test completed .The test failed on 26/10/2018 12:29
Engineer has been out but liner is still erroring. Passing CA – customer apparatus to check again.
There is now an appointment activity ( KSU ) reflecting on the task for CP to respond to and book an engineer on the task at open Reach end :
26-10-2018 16:39:59.946 sa KSU - 4000 : New Appointment request sent to One Siebel.
Requesting CP to respond on the KSU soon , book an engineer and notify us via portal so that we get the task Escalated with open Reach on high priority . If KSU not responded soon, the task will be cancelled at open Reach end automatically .
Parking the case in open awaiting closure for 10 days awaiting CPs respond on the KSU and notification to us via portal.
Name and date: ********** 29-10-2018 09:15 hours .
*: Not as far as I'm aware, the modem connects fine. it was OR/plusnet's system that decided there was a fault and kept sending engineers.
**: If it wasn't connected to the NTE how would I get a connection? :-\ The modem is connected via a OR fitted data cable!
I had to explain to the engineer where and how the modem was connected, he thought the obi110 and a USB switch underneath was the modem. I'd shown (both) engineers - one on the day and another after - the GEA failures PN were seeing and explained the system kept sending them out!
It's a simple setup, well to me..
Downstairs:
Obi110 connected to phone port
Data cable on VDSL port -> Modem upstairs
Power-line Ethernet -> USB switch for the obi110 and Sky box
Upstairs:
Modem -> GLInet mini router (Openwrt) -> Samknows Whitebox -> Power-line (for downstairs) -> Switch + Switch -> Devices
So, to sum it up, it's a bit of everything. a crappy line and OR/PN tests throwing a wobbler.
Plusnet say..
I have closed the fault report in our suppliers systems to ensure no further engineer visits are arranged. I have also advised the escalation owner that the fault is resolved.
As these visits have been as a result on a line test failure and raised as external tasks, no charge will be applied. With regards to the line test, the fault detected are a potential fault and are not always service effecting however, if you do experience any further issues please get back in touch.
I have refunded £7.50 back to your monthly payment method for the loss of service.
Why a refund was given who knows, there was no loss of service.. Not that I'm complaining mind.
:clap:
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To be honest, I am in a completely muddled state with regards to what is/is-not working properly with your service.
But, if you are happy, . . . :)
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That makes two of us :D