Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: Weaver on August 13, 2018, 04:14:45 PM
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I did a 'copper line test' on my line cwcc@a.3 which appeared to be acting the goat, but when I swapped two modems over between two lines the problem went away. There had been packet loss ever since yesterday evening, getting really bad today.
BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Pass Standalone sub test passed successfully.Pass Copper Line Test Successful T136:LOOP CONDITION DETECTED (UNPLUG ALL END USER EQUIP and RE-TEST)
AA users especially: do the BT test systems usually complain and want the modem removed while you do tests? I can't remember seeing that error message text. Perhaps BT has just updated their test software?
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I may be wrong but the way I'd read that is that the test detected an error and a further test is required to determine if it is before or after the master socket (demarcation point).
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Thanks to jelv - confirmed that it is all bad news. I unplugged modem and then got a clear fail so I am going to ask AA to book an engineer asap, as it says
BT Test xDSL Copper Test:Fail Line test failed report fault to OR, appointment advised.Fail Line test failed report fault to OR, appointment advised. T024:FAULT - Loop (Rectified)
So a rectifier presumably implies a bad joint?
Last wednesday, the day of cwcc@a.2 installation things started to go very wrong with line cwcc@a.3 flapping from around lunchtime onwards. It seemed a bit suspicious because this was just before the engineer was due to turn up for the new line install. The next day, I did a modem swap out, decided that the modem was bad and now it seems as if maybe both line and modem were bad.
I am wondering now if the original suspicion was correct and the 'pair divert' work might have broken something. However, I don't see why that work had to be done on the same day as the house visit, but maybe it is not a matter of 'had to'; maybe the pair divert was booked, to make the job possible, and way back when, the house visit was booked to be immediately afterwards so that is why it just happened that they were on the same day.
Last wednesday was all a cockup anyway, and the job was never finished, barely started in fact. Tuesday is supposed to be the new cwcc@a.2 installation date. A thought comes to me: today it was once again shortly before the new line install date and things go wrong once again. A pattern?
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Two quick comments --
- The ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A may not be faulty.
- A rectified fault usually indicates a bad joint.
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Indeed, my thoughts too about the modem. I labelled that B10 as 'retest needed' and it did not go into the bin, just on a shelf, for when I had more time. But the fault last week did move from line @a.3 to line @a.4 when modems were swapped at the NTE5s.
This was last week's adventure:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,22126.msg380018.html#msg380018
It seems that we now have a continuation of the problems.
Luckily a voice inside my tormented brain warned me of trouble ahead. I contacted AA and ordered BT Enhanced Care maintenance for each of the existing three lines. And a couple of days later it turns out that I should hopefully enjoy the benefits.
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Steve has got a bt engineer coming out tomorrow morning (Wednesday) to fix cwcc@a.3. Very efficient, all done before 9am aoartvfrom delays because I was not using proper email client just polling in webmail so not realising there was mail for me until I happened to check for it and fetch it. No push type email. And of course no notifications unless web browser window was permanently open.
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Just to add, as far as I'm aware the CIDT test prefers having a DSL modem connected. However I presume the specific test you ran isn't quite the same as CIDT (copper integrated demand testing) and perhaps just a basic 'copper line test', as it says?
For example:
WLR3Test WLR3_CIDT_Test xxxxx:xxxxx: Pass Line Test OK. Dial tone OK ServiceLevel:2.5, MainFaultLocation:OK, FaultReportAdvised:N, AppointmentRequired:N, LineStability:, NetworkStability:, StabilityStatement:
https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/products/productdevelopment/latestempenhancements/latestempenhancements/R1700_downloads/cidt.doc
How does it work?
... CIDT detects and samples the tones from an ADSL modem connected to the other end of the line and analyses the electrical balance between the copper wires delivering services. ...
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For CIDT it is mandatory for an active CPE be connected to the circuit. If no such device is connected (or there is a break in the metallic pathway) any attempt to perform a CIDT will drop-back to the basic copper line test.
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OH, that is weird. The first copper line test I ran (first posted in the thread) seemed inconclusive to me, but perhaps I misunderstood. Then I ran another test and got the fail error message you saw with detail about rectification. And AA asked me to remove all kit from the line, so I did, but I don't know why they asked me that. I would have put the modem back in, but I think that I had very quickly convinced AA that there was a real problem and they always want to do a CPE and filter rule-out. I decided that having the modem contributing more bandwidth was probably a dissster because of its socket loss mucking things up, so that I would be better off without it. I could have just taken it out of the bonded set while leaving it on and synced to the DSLAM if AA or BT needed to have it present.
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The first test (presumably CIDT, a double-ended test), whose result you showed in your opening post, detected an anomaly. A second test was thus requested, one that was to be run with all CPE equipment disconnected.
That second test would have been the basic (single-ended) copper line test. It failed, as a "Loop (Rectified)" was detected. A&A should then have passed the fault details on to Openreach, for a technician to fix.
I think you have been "over thinking" what was involved and requested. All that was needed was for either Mrs Weaver or yourself to unplug the relevant patch lead from the NTE5. You could have left everything else alone . . . the system would cope, exactly as if the circuit was broken -- for, indeed, it was.
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I was very confused, burakkucat. I am sorry, I didn't understand the last paragraph- perhaps you could help me?
btw, q: The 'loop' is I take it just the normal copper pair? Or something else?
Was not really with it. Today and all through last night I got no sleep, record pain day, starting out with legs burning and then spreading upwards to entire body. In the end after taking every drug we had got in the house multiple times Janet went down to the doctor's and got my doctor to phone us up from Sléite in the afternoon to think it through tell us what to do. He told Janet to give me double amounts of pregabalin which (sort-of) worked; numbed it anyway, a bit.
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BT engineer here. TDR - it is 3000m away, on the moor - bad joint. prob where there was a fault a couple of years ago, described in a previous thread iirc
If my map tool estimation is correct, it is high up on the moor, below the Fireach Clach, on the slope going northwards downhill towards Harapul but still above the highest stream that goes under the road.
Location: N 57.2181, E -5.8822 - total guess, not likely to be at all accurate ???
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And apparently the AA faceplate had died. Alex our engineer said it had a capacitor in it.
Our man Alex is back, fault was roughly where I thought, near the Fireach Clach. He is now up the low pole on the far side of the road, the one with some BT66s on it. It surprised him I think when I used that term while talking with him.
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All fixed, something I could not make sense of in the wire up the pole, and battery contact too there.
I was disappointed because there was an FTB: sync rate d/s only 2.271Mbps not 2.800Mbps+ as it should be, and talked to AA on IRC. I stupidly forgot to do an SNR reset, David from AA did one for me and all fixed, back to normal sync rate. [Doh! Fool that i am.]
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And apparently the AA faceplate had died. Alex our engineer said it had a capacitor in it.
Did he leave it with you or pinch it? So he install the horrible NTE5C?
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btw, q: The 'loop' is I take it just the normal copper pair? Or something else?
Yes, the normal metallic pathway, the copper pair. I used quotation marks around the phrase, "Loop (Rectified)", which I copied directly from the system message that you showed in an earlier post. That phrase is a little ambiguous . . . it could be implying that with every item of CPE disconnected from the circuit the pair was still showing as looped (low resistance, A-wire to B-wire) and that semi-conductive tendencies were also detected.
Having now read all of your following posts, I am guessing that the semi-conductive joint was up on the moor and the low resistance, A-wire to B-wire, was an artefact of the dying face-plate or of the dying NTE5. (I don't understand the comment about the face-plate "containing a capacitor" . . . because it doesn't! The back part of the NTE5 contains a series connected 470 k Ohm resistor and 1.8 u Farad capacitor that shunt the pair.)
Hmm . . . Also found a battery contact fault. I'm beginning to think that an induced surge, from earlier atmospheric electrical discharge, had caused the damage.
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About the capacitor, no I was surprised about that, the engineer was talking rubbish? Is the capacitor in the back? And of course an SSFP has a whole load of passive components, could be he was too used to looking at SSFPs.
What a great guy, BT Alex for Breacais, had to do a lot of work and got me sorted and it was a real pleasure to talk to him A++
Was here at around 08:10 after giving Janet a phone call, and took him four hours of slog.
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What a great guy, BT Alex for Breacais, had to do a lot of work and got me sorted and it was a real pleasure to talk to him A++
Was here at around 08:10 after giving Janet a phone call, and took him four hours of slog.
Please go to this page (https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/contactus/tellussomething/tellus.do), scroll down to the "Let us know how we did" heading and then take the link "send them a thank you message (http://www.formwize.com/run/survey3.cfm?idx=505d040e0a0e0c)". The message will also be seen by the relevant manager and noted. :)
Very few people realise that facility is available. :(
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Thank you so much Burakkucat, could we publicise that url somewhere? It is so useful.
I ended up at a 'report damage' page following one url, that is good to know about. I had forgotten. I do hope the engineer Alex's manager gets a copy of my praise. I wish they were all like him. It turns out we know quite a few people in common too.
He was off to Loch Carrann after me, got a phone call and had to hurry, but the high road above the sea-lock would have been a nightmare with 'bongalies/bonglies' (tourists) on the spectacular hilly loch-side road, so not possible to get there quickly without a chopper.
Perhaps BT should hire a boat or a chopper? Could get to Loch Carrann from Broadford really quickly by sea.