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Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: kitz on August 13, 2018, 12:31:30 AM

Title: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: kitz on August 13, 2018, 12:31:30 AM
Would be interesting to hear male and tech opinions on the following.

Whilst out with the girls the other night, one of them showed a video a neighbour had captured from their CCTV system of some local youths up to no good and it triggered a debate on security cameras.  I was quite surprised that 6/9 said they'd be afraid to answer the door if they lived alone!  So move on to topic about doorbells which include cameras which can be linked to your mobile phone and installation of cheap IoT cams. 

Funny enough I'd _almost_ been tempted in a system myself 2-3 weeks ago when it was on a really good offer on Prime day *

Anyhow, whilst all of us agreed that home security cameras are a good thing ,  what the jury was out on is whether it was a good idea to have a sign on your property saying that you had a camera system in place.
Some said it signs were a deterrent, whilst others said advertising the fact you had a system showed that you felt you had something worth taking/were vulnerable/made those up to no good be more covert.

So over to you... 



*I so nearly bit at the offer and read all the reviews on the product...  if it wasn't for the fact they had a phone package on offer at a fantastic price, so was spent up, and was thinking just atm it would be difficult for me to install it myself because of my hand/finger co-ordination .   But I have someone who would do it for me as long as I gave him the instructions on what to do where. 
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: kitz on August 13, 2018, 12:33:08 AM
Just to clarify the debate which we as a group could not come to agreement on, is the use of a CCTV sign.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: Ronski on August 13, 2018, 06:14:02 AM
I wouldn't display a sign, why advertise the fact you have CCTV they'll just be more covert, keep their face down etc.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: roseway on August 13, 2018, 07:09:36 AM
I think I'm with Ronski on that. If you feel threatened, perhaps a panic button which you can use to summon help would be a good idea (but only use it in really serious circumstances).
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: johnson on August 13, 2018, 07:26:50 AM
I cant imagine having cctv for my home at the moment... but I guess all it would take is one break-in and I'd have HD night vision covering every aspect.

But your question is about signage related to it? Do people really put "BEWARE CCTV" signs on their houses? Might as well glue one of those hilariously oversized fake cameras to the wall.

I imagine the only result of either would be angry/uncomfortable neighbours.
Title: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: d2d4j on August 13, 2018, 08:52:09 AM
Hi

We have cctv both around our property and in car cctv (front and rear)

We do not display any signage and my experience is those who put signs up, mostly do not have proper cameras, and most bad people easily recognize dummy from real cameras, so signage I think does nothing

A point though if you do have cctv, particularly if it covers road side, the police may call to ask to review footage if they are trying to trace an event that may have happened but not directly involving your property.

Lastly, most bad people intent on breaking into your property, would have already determined if your cctv is real or fake, even if you do not display signs, and will cover their faces but also attempt to find the recorder, to take with them

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: g3uiss on August 13, 2018, 09:17:58 AM
You may know my neighbor has CCTV but no sign. Itís not the only one on the estate. I donít, I have a noisy dog 🐕 ias my backup to the normal alarm system.

Interestingly my daughter is very nervous about opening the door, not a major problem as she only home a few months a year. 

A colleague has them all over the inside of his house using old mobiles, a useful use !
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: johnson on August 13, 2018, 09:20:10 AM
This all feels a bit daily mail, unless you live in a high foot traffic high crime area no one is trying to break into your house, much less scour the place for the the "master tapes", live and be happy. If you want a convenience camera on your door to see whos calling go for it, signs alerting people to this will just make you seem like a nutter though :D
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: broadstairs on August 13, 2018, 09:20:49 AM
We dont have CCTV at home or in the car but we do have a burglar alarm which of course is obvious as there are boxes front and back of the property. We first installed on years ago on the previous house after an unsuccessful attempt to break in. The current alarm has panic buttons in each bedroom and by the front door (which is part of the control panel). Since that attempt some 40 years ago we have never had any subsequent attempt.

I would advocate an alarm (with a service contract) as always a good idea and suggest it should be the first thing before CCTV. I have considered CCTV but so far not done anything, my reason would be primarily to capture anti-social behaviour in the street which we do get although rarely the most likely time each year is during the Broadstairs Folk week where all the local youth arrive to get drunk when the pubs open late for the week.

As for signage I would NOT have one and would try to place the camera somewhere where it would be difficult to spot.

Stuart
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: kitz on August 13, 2018, 09:46:24 AM
I wouldn't display a sign, why advertise the fact you have CCTV they'll just be more covert, keep their face down etc.

That was my argument, in that they'd put hoodies up etc, making them more difficult to identify.

.... but also attempt to find the recorder, to take with them

wish I'd have thought of that one at the time, because that is true!   

I had suspected that it the signage was a 'woman' thing...  and why I asked on here because personally I don't think it is a good idea.

Quote
If you feel threatened, perhaps a panic button which you can use to summon help would be a good idea
I wasn't one of them..   interestingly those that said they would be, don't live alone anyhow.   

I'd been looking at the doorbell cameras only because it was one of the things offer on Prime Day - usually they can usually be quite expensive..   and I think that is more of a geeky want thing.

I have been considering a more normal cam for a while.  I already have Hive and Br Gas do offers on their kit every so often.  I like some of its features and that it will integrate with my existing system.     There are plenty of other makes though.

Quote
I would advocate an alarm (with a service contract)

I have an alarm, but no service contract thus no panic buttons.  :-\
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: d2d4j on August 13, 2018, 10:03:48 AM
Hi

@kitz, channel 5 program did a test for cams that integrate into hive etc, and alert you via mobile. I think hive cams on their test did poorly

Cctv has its place, and is not primary used as a deterrent but rather evidence after the fact and can be used in court. Even if the picture is blurred slightly, police may recognize the bad person still.

So it has its place and this thread is over signage not if users are nutters for having cctv.

As I said, I also have cctv in car, front and rear, and it serves a few purposes, one of which is as soon as the car behind notices thereís a camera, they drop back more leaving a bigger gap

Many thanks

John 
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: broadstairs on August 13, 2018, 10:26:43 AM
I have an alarm, but no service contract thus no panic buttons.  :-\

The main reason for a service contract is to get discount on home insurance, although in our case it was good because when it went wrong we had a revised system installed for free as part of the contract.

As for panic buttons assuming your system is reasonably modern it should be possible to add them. Also if you have a control panel near or next to the front door there is normally a panic button combination to act as a panic button on the panel, worth checking your manual.

Stuart
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: chenks on August 13, 2018, 11:43:40 AM
The main reason for a service contract is to get discount on home insurance

wouldn't any saving gained to insurance discount be lost due to the cost of the service contract?
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: Bowdon on August 13, 2018, 11:45:26 AM
I've got cameras outside my house covering all directions front, back and side.

The reason I got them was because I had a quad bike stolen from the back yard (I suspect I know who did it as they came back again a few months later).

The cameras also picked up someone raiding the outside fridge, someone picking up those bags of clothes people leave for charity, and a crime (that resulted in conviction) of a guy going in to an old womans house across the road trying to con her until her family walked in.

I've contemplated putting a sign up for a while. I haven't done yet.

I guess it depends what the objective is. Cameras are ok for gathering evidence, but I've found they arent much of a deterrent against an actual crime taking place. I think putting up a sign is about trying to stop the crime before it happens, showing them the odds of not getting caught is lower on a house with cameras.

I don't have a doorbell camera but I've heard they can be pretty good. You can use the mobile phone and also talk to the person via your phone to the doorbell speaker. So it will always appear that you're home. I think more people need to use that technology, especially if you have a door you can't see through.

I don't know why standard doors dont come with spy holes.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: chenks on August 13, 2018, 11:52:19 AM
So it will always appear that you're home. I think more people need to use that technology, especially if you have a door you can't see through.

i actually have the opposite view on that.
if you answer it remotely via your phone then it's suggests that you aren't actually home.
if you were in the house you're not going to pick up your phone and talk to them via the phone, you're just going to go to the door.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: broadstairs on August 13, 2018, 12:58:16 PM
wouldn't any saving gained to insurance discount be lost due to the cost of the service contract?

Well it's not just the discount but you must consider what else you get, an annual service with replacement standby batteries and any other failing parts covered, and in our case a complete new updated system when the old one failed. So in my case money well spent at around £60 per year, a new system fully installed is several £100s of pounds.

Stuart
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: Ronski on August 13, 2018, 01:19:28 PM
I've installed and maintained my own alarm system,  I've also fitted the biggest battery I could. We were burgled about ten years ago whilst on holiday (old alarm system with contract) , luckily we were only away a week. The alarm went off and we think they had a quick look around, a few days later it went off again, neighbours could not see anything either time, but the intruders turned the power off the second time obviously intending on coming back when the battery was flat. I've also fitted the loudest internal sirens I could, that will spook them if nothing else.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: j0hn on August 13, 2018, 02:33:38 PM
i actually have the opposite view on that.
if you answer it remotely via your phone then it's suggests that you aren't actually home.
if you were in the house you're not going to pick up your phone and talk to them via the phone, you're just going to go to the door.

I disagree. I'm not spending £100+ on a video doorbell to have to get up off my lazy ass to answer the door!

With regards to the OP no I wouldn't put signage up. I'd be happy to put security cameras up but wouldn't want signage to advertise the fact.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: chenks on August 13, 2018, 03:04:32 PM
I disagree. I'm not spending £100+ on a video doorbell to have to get up off my lazy ass to answer the door!

so you would never answer the door if you'd spent £100?
what if the person at the door is someone you want to let in or receive something from?

you're still going to have to get up off your lazy ass to do that.

who exactly are you trying to "put of the scent" by using one of these devices? how any burglars ring your doorbell or knock your door before attempting a break in?
at best all you'll be avoiding jehovahs witnesses.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: licquorice on August 13, 2018, 03:06:25 PM
If the camera records beyond the boundary of your property, then I believe you need signage.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: chenks on August 13, 2018, 03:32:42 PM
this explains what is and isn't needed
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property/domestic-cctv-using-cctv-systems-on-your-property
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: Ixel on August 13, 2018, 04:15:59 PM
I have Foscam's setup around parts of the inside of the house, and one monitoring the back garden. They are connected to my Synology NAS RS815+ which also keeps past recordings for up to around 1 to 2 weeks, so if necessary I can go back in time and check something if there's something unusual. I don't use a warning sign.
Title: Re: Home CCTV and displaying signs.
Post by: vic0239 on August 13, 2018, 05:29:42 PM
^^^^
Ditto that, but to a QNAP NAS, but same functionality which I can view while away from home. I don't advertise it either.

Although the only action I have captured has been the window cleaner!  ::)