Kitz Forum
Computers & Hardware => Networking => Topic started by: kitz on November 09, 2006, 11:49:15 AM
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Got a weird problem on my Network thats starting to bug me and I wonder if anyone has any suggestions.
Network consists of a few PCs which are wired and a wireless laptop via a Voyager 2100.
All IP addresses are hardcoded and I dont use DHCP.
For the past few days Ive noticed that from the lappy I have difficulties reaching the PCs.
I also work from the lappy using files that are stored on main PC via dreamweaver, which also has problems finding \\kitz4\d
When using the lappy - mshome only shows up the laptop and none of the other PCs
When usings the PCs - mshome shows all PCs but not the laptop.
Even expanding from workgroup pcs
or from Entire Network windows network > mshome
shows nothing.
Ive even tried remapping the network that doesnt work
Any shortcuts that I try create using a path returns \\kitz4\d returns the error message
not accessessible - The network path was not found
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Now the weird bit
I can ping the other machine and I can tracert to it using the IP address
Watch what happens here
C:\Documents and Settings\kitz>tracert kitz4
Unable to resolve target system name kitz4.
C:\Documents and Settings\kitz>tracert 192.168.7.2
Tracing route to 192.168.7.2 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.7.2
Trace complete.
C:\Documents and Settings\kitz>tracert kitz4
Tracing route to kitz4 [192.168.7.2]
over a maximum of 30 hops:
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.7.2
Trace complete.
Once Ive pinged or traced to the other machine via the IP addresses I can then access it as normal through any shortcuts or mshome.
But .....
10 mins or so later it "forgets" everything and I have to perform another ping using the IP address to get everything working again.
Note also how in the trace above there is a 3ms delay the first time I do it..
It always takes a couple of ms longer the first time I trace... subsequent traces will revert back to 1ms
Its almost as if DNS somewhere is forgetting this machine, but usage of the IP address kick starts everything back to life for about 10 mins - then it forgets again. :/
But its not a DHCP lease since all machines are manually assigned.
I know a solution could perhaps be to use the hosts file on all PCS and on the lappy to list all the IP addresses on my network, but you shouldnt have to... and its bugging me why this has happened.
Should add that that laptop appears to have no problems acessing the net.
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Hi Kitz,
First thing that came to my mind was a DNS problem, Have you tried on each machine ipconfig/flushdns and ipconfig/registerdns .
Have you tried rebooting all machines ?.
Good luck. Michael.
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The problem persists across reboots (all machines have been rebooted).
ipconfig /flushdns tried that - again weird..
if I get things working using the IP address
flushdns makes it forget everything again.
Must admit I hadnt tried registerdns though - just given that a whirl
get the same error - "network path not found"
will see if theres anything in the event viewer log in 15 mins
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AV, Firewall or check to make sure the computer name has not changed.
Or possibly de-select folder/file sharing then re-run the MS network wizard again.
Sorry if this advice is not much help, but it may just be something simple that may get overlooked looking for a more complicated solution.
???
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I would agree that the obvious solution would be any third party firewall applications/services which often tend to interupt network traffic acceptable to Windows.
I wouldn't personally use the Network Setup Wizard, but would make sure all the necessary protocols/services/clients are installed e.g:
Client for MS Networks, File Printer Sharing, Internet Protocol (TCP/IP)
I would also check out the manual TCP/IP configurations again and quite importantly see what DNS server entries you have. Try setting the DNS server to be the router you connect your devices through.
Again, a DNS flush after such a change might help sort it out. It does seem that whilst DNS isn't strictly necessary, it is something whilst might be causing you problems. Because I dont care much for how networked devices communicate, I just think of it as being similar to the world wide web where DNS servers are used to locate devices.
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DNS isn't used in a windows workgroup for name resolution, instead resolution is done by broadcast only. I know kitz has always specified the ISP DNS servers on all her PCs and never had this problem before.
Even if you use your router for DNS, windows won't register the names of the clients with the router's DNS since routers normally aren't MS-compliant dynamically updatable DNS servers.
So the suggestions are:
1. Reboot all PCs. (probably been done)
2. Reboot the router, just to eliminate that from the equation.
3. It's a pain in the neck, but if you can't get it working, and I had a problem like this once that I couldn't solve, the only way I could sort it was to stick the addresses in my hosts file like this:
192.168.7.2 kitz4
I'd try totally cold-rebooting the router first to see if that helps. Shut ALL PCs down beforehand and then start them up one by one so they agree on computer browser elections without fighting over it :)
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Tried all suggestions and still the rest of the network wont see the lappy.
AV/Firewalls make no diference
Long ago did all the reboot stuff at stage 1 of troubleshooting
Tried remapping the network.
DNS flushes and reconfigs
Nor can the lappy see the rest of the network unless I ping a particular machine first.
and why it only works for about 10 mins and then forgets again Ive no idea.
The other mystery is the first ping will take 3ms... then later ones 1ms
Something Ive just realised that I have changed within the past month is Im using freedns rather than ISP.
Although I really cant see how that makes a difference - off to try and see if changing it does.
Although this is no big deal I find that it could perhaps be in some way related pure and simply because the 3ms pings only occur when the network cant be found by name.
This can be repeated again and again and happens without fail.
Tracing route to 192.168.7.2 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 3 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.7.2
Trace complete.
C:\Documents and Settings\kitz>tracert 192.168.7.2
Tracing route to 192.168.7.2 over a maximum of 30 hops
1 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 192.168.7.2
Trace complete.
It is beginning to be a real PITA, the only thing I havent actually tried yet is updating my network card drivers, but the version I have on seems to be about the most stable with this lappy... nor does that explain why this should have happened out of the blue when its worked fine for the past 10 months or so.
Its looking like hosts file is going to be the solution, which isnt really ideal either since I'll have to list them on all PCs.. and its not unknown on occasions for me to swap routers, which means PITA config changes since they use different IP addresses.
I'll not do the host file yet though cause the lappy is going in for repair next week (un-related monitor and possible graphics card fault).
So Im gonna have to spend some time tidying up the lappy and taking a pile of stuff off it. :(
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Something I have just remembered which I changed in the past month is I now use freeDNS rather than my ISPDNS
Although I cant see how it can make a difference
/off to see if it does
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Hi .
You said ..."Network consists of a few PCs which are wired and a wireless laptop via a Voyager 2100."
What happens if you use it on a RJ45 lead ?.
Michael.
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Hi .
You said ..."Network consists of a few PCs which are wired and a wireless laptop via a Voyager 2100."
What happens if you use it on a RJ45 lead ?.
Michael.
I can see the rest of the network fine and the rest of the network can see the laptop without any problems.
(currently connected via the LAN).
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Rather grasping at straws here, but if the problems are present only when you use the wireless connection, is it possible that a neighbour has a wireless connection which is interfering? Try a different channel? And make sure that you've got encryption properly set up of course.
Eric
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Just for anyone whose interested me and chris had a convo about this yesterday - but I had to go give someone some PC lessons before we had chance to talk about it properly :(
Anyhow our conversation involved ARP and TCP/IP and I spent a LOT of time researching this problem last night, and I think I know what the problem is, I just havent had time or been able to resolve it properly yet.
Some of the things further things I have tried so far which havent worked.
~ I looked at the wireless problem - yes there is an open Netgear router very close, but it is on a different channel and it also uses a different IP range.
~ Tried Nbtstat -RR {sends name release packets to the WINS server and starts a refresh, thus re-registering all names with the name server }
Ive been doing a lot of reading on MS sites and how NT networking works.
I also had a convo last night with a networking bod who is strictly a non-Windows person at all but he also mentioned something called a PDC (primary domain controller) - yeah I had to ask too
Thanks Ross - who'd just got back from the pub and thought it was hilarious - you really had me going for about 5 seconds when you said I needed to re-install the OS - Funny! ::)
Anyhow putting all the info I had together (and something that chris had mentioned) it was back to more research.
This problem can affect Networks which have a multi-homed PC (computer with more than 1 IP address) which would be the lappy since it has 2 IP addresses - One for the Network card and one for the Wireless adapter.
The fact that the network reverts back again after 10 mins or so (in actual fact according to MS it will be 12 mins) is even further confirmation that I have a problem with something called the Microsoft Computer Browser Service.
Im still doing a bit more research - but the more I read the more Im 100% certain that this is my problem.
Ive downloaded the "Windows XP Service Pack 2 Support Tools for Advanced Users" and having run "browstat" this would seem to confirm it.
Ive so far managed to confirm that the laptop is the one with the problem and its setting itself up as the Master and Backup master on each interface.. therefore it thinks its a domain on its own.
Now that I know what the problem seems to be and what Im actually looking for this seems to be a lot more common that I first thought.
I think I know what I need to do - but brat was being a meany and wouldnt let me turn off her PC whilst I try resolve the problem.
Just need to find the time to sort it now - I'll let you know.
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Gordon Bennett, Microsoft do like to make things complicated, don't they? :'(
Eric
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Yeah dont they just - Im struggling trying to resolve it atm
following the instructions here
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;188305
:'(
Im currently sick of enabling and disabling services on the different machines.
Ive finally managed to get the Master set on kitz4 - but its still struggling to find the lappy for some reason - despite the lappy now acknowleding that kitz4 is the master.
Gonna wait 12 mins on the off chance that it picks it up then, when its supposed to update.
edit
Now picked up the lappy on the network domain, but the lappy isnt being assigned as a/the backup server which it should be.
I think it needs to do that before I switch the wireless adapter back on or else Im going to be back at square 1 again as soon as I do ? ;/
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grrrrrrrrrr
/me cries :'(
As instructed turned all PCs and all other devices off - connected the Laptop via the LAN and sucessfully got Kitz4 as the master browser.
Running browstat on the main machine gave the following results
C:\Program Files\Support Tools>browstat status mshome
Status for domain mshome on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{0B524695-8A9B-433E-BC
A6-4185AF2D0FA0}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: KITZ4
Master browser is running build 2600
1 backup servers retrieved from master KITZ4
\\KITZ4
There are 2 servers in domain mshome on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{0B524
695-8A9B-433E-BCA6-4185AF2D0FA0}
There are 1 domains in domain mshome on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{0B524
695-8A9B-433E-BCA6-4185AF2D0FA0}
Network seemed to be running ok and laptop and main machine could interact with each other fine
Running browstat from the Laptop with all devices aside from the LAN enabled gave the following result
- which is good that it was picking up Kitz4 as the master browser. Browser services were enabled. But the lappy wasnt being picked up as a backup server.
C:\Program Files\Support Tools>browstat status
Status for domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{254AA2AF-5DB6-4B03-89
9B-4CE0D018111D}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: KITZ4
Could not connect to registry, error = 53 Unable to determine build of br
owser master: 53
\\\\KITZ4 . Version:05.01 Flags: 51203 NT POTENTIAL MASTER
1 backup servers retrieved from master KITZ4
\\KITZ4
There are 2 servers in domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{254AA
2AF-5DB6-4B03-899B-4CE0D018111D}
There are 1 domains in domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{254AA
2AF-5DB6-4B03-899B-4CE0D018111D}
Disabled the LAN and re-enabled the Wireless
C:\Program Files\Support Tools>browstat status
Status for domain MSHOME on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{E68117E3-A68A-4FB6-AA
7F-E55A56846D70}
Browsing is NOT active on domain.
Master browser name is held by: KITZLAPPY
Master browser is running build 2600
wahhhhhhhhhhhhhh back to the beginning again
btw browsing IS enabled as a service - so something is lying to me :( :no:
:'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
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frigging hell ... god just how annoying is this?
Ive gone back to the LAN to try and start again.. and what does even Kitz4 now tell me..
yeah that the lappy is the masterbrowser - despite me even setting in the registry that Kitz4 should take presidence.
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters\IsDomainMaster
= TRUE.
Yet Im now seeing this from Kitz4
C:\Program Files\Support Tools>browstat status mshome
Status for domain mshome on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{0B524695-8A9B-433E-BC
A6-4185AF2D0FA0}
Browsing is active on domain.
Master browser name is: KITZLAPPY
Could not connect to registry, error = 53 Unable to determine build of br
owser master: 53
\\\\KITZLAPPY . Version:05.01 Flags: 51203 NT POTENTIAL MASTER
1 backup servers retrieved from master KITZLAPPY
\\KITZLAPPY
There are 2 servers in domain mshome on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{0B524
695-8A9B-433E-BCA6-4185AF2D0FA0}
There are 1 domains in domain mshome on transport \Device\NetBT_Tcpip_{0B524
695-8A9B-433E-BCA6-4185AF2D0FA0}
I must be doing something wrong - or missing something somewhere :(
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Hello .
What I would do at this stage, First make a note of all your settings.
1..On each computer delete all network settings reboot each in turn .( delete wireless settings on laptop and the voyager.)
2..Make sure your network hub/switch is ok and working .
3.. unplug or turn off wireless Voyager 2100.
4..hard wire laptop .
5.. switch on and configure ( I would use my network place ) each computer and reboot.
6.. configure laptop last.
7.. when you have them all talking to one another then disconnect RJ45 from laptop and set up the wifi side .
8.. test via pings etc.
9. good luck.
Regards Michael.
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Update on this -
I tried all that and still no joy.
I spent hours following all the master browser combinations as I felt sure it must be something to do with that - all the symptoms where there.
Because everything worked fine if you plugged in via the LAN then it was obvious it was something to do with the wireless..
The fact that the lappy was multi-homed seemed a possibility but Id disabled the lan - and even the wireless - even stripped out the mac addresses from my router and started afresh. Id also totally removed the wireless adapters and started afresh twice.
Anyhow chris brought his lappy round - fired it up and came across exactly the same thing.... only this time now we had three separate domains - none of them seeing each other - all named MSHome and all correctly set up. - except no talk with each other.
Even chris was scratching his head at one point - the 12 mins was pointing towards windows browser and ARP.
So chris fired up Ethereal to see if we could see what was going on - at first nothing it all looked ok... then there was a lil blip from my router.
Yet the ARP tables looked ok from what chris could see.. messed around with the router settings for about 1/2 an hour, couldnt see anything specific... but something weird was going on for the router to suddenly announce itself.
So... last attempt set the router back to the manufacturers settings** and about 1/2 an hour later everything was up and running ok.
What had happened with the ARP table Ive no idea - maybe chris has had chance to understand more I dunno. But whatever it was, was continuing through a router reboots and a factory reset was the only thing that sorted it.
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** Factory reset wasnt un-eventful and I had about 15-20 mins of worry when I couldnt get any sync what so ever.
The router was rebooted that many times and failed so often to resync that I half expected to find my normally rock steady 8Mb with 7dB of attenuation this morning being on a stupidly low profile with interleaving applied.
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Thanks chris for the help - appreciated.
Bet you didnt think youd be sorting my network, when a couple of hours earlier we thought we were going to see Evanescence (http://www.roadrunnerrecords.com/blabbermouth.net/news.aspx?mode=Article&newsitemID=62490).
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> Bet you didnt think youd be sorting my network, when a couple of hours earlier we thought we were going to see Evanescence
Damn right....
To be honest, I think it was something in the router that was blocking domain broadcast traffic going over the wireless properly, for whatever reason... causing names not to resolve, thus effectively breaking NetBIOS!
Whatever it was, survived warm reboots, so must have been something a bit weird saved in the router's config.
In retrospect I wish I'd done a bit more digging to have a look at all the config files first.
Anyway, got there :) Still wish I'd been at Evanescence though :(
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Still wish I'd been at Evanescence though :(
Oh, Chris how can you say a thing like that, it's not everyday that you get to help a damsel in distress "or is it" :love:
But seriously, I'm really glad that Kitz's problem has now been cured, which will now take a lot of mental strain and fatigue from her, (and yourself) no-doubt.
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What's Evanescence? ;)
Eric
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Glad you got sorted.
These box's that we all play about with are sent to try our patients, when the 1's and 0's get in the wrong place !.
From Michael.
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Its back again...
Dont fancy doing another factory reset just yet :'(
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my idea
there's a setting in windows which determines which network connection has precedence in the event both are plugged in.
network connections > advanced > advanced settings (connections are listed in the order which they are accessed by network services)
if the primary connection isnt working properly then lots of wierdness can ensue.
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I realise that the problem has been sorted no-doubt with much jubilation.
On XP from time-to-time I also have a "similar" problem, to get around this I find that by "Un-Sharing" the Drive or Folder/s on the PC that cannot be accessed, then re-sharing the folders again, this usually solves my problem.
(Although then I usually end-up with two folders for the same drive/Folder in the network, you then need to find and remove the one that is still there that does not work). (Try hovering the mouse over them and read the path)
Like I said, I don't know if this is the same sort of problem, but with sharing Folder or Drives over a network it works for me.