Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: adslmax on July 30, 2018, 11:47:26 PM

Title: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on July 30, 2018, 11:47:26 PM
Is it true that Openreach FTTC no longer get 96.69% from IP Profile if the sync rate sit at 79999K from Target SNR 3dB as the IP Profile sit at 74.1Mb rather than 77.35Mb with G.INP enabled.

Before:

Max Rate 80021K
Sync Rate 79999K
SNR 5.9dB
G.INP Enabled
Bras IP Profile 77.35Mb (96.69%)

Now:

Max Rate 81069K
Sync Rate 79999K
SNR 3.1dB
G.INP Enabled
Bras IP Profile 74.1Mb (92.64%)
 
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on July 31, 2018, 01:09:57 AM
Depends if your DLM profile is Re-tx high  - See NGA for VDSL / FTTC  Profiles (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/IPprofile.htm#IP_and_bRAS_profiles)

Quote
Figure is 91-92% for lines which have High Re-tx DLM profiles

I think most/all lines on 3dB have re-tx high.


Whats your INP REIN figure from your line stats?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on July 31, 2018, 01:49:28 PM
From my experience all Broadcom modems use retx high on 3, 4, and 5dB SNRM targets.

I've only ever once seen a line with a 3dB (or 4/5dB) SNRM target with retx low and that was Blacksheep using his
BT HH5A.
Usually we can't see the stats of this modem in detail but he posted his line profile which confirmed it.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20102.msg352352.html#msg352352

This was fairly early on in the XdB rollout so things may have changed but I'm pretty convinced the Broadcoms default to retx high.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on July 31, 2018, 02:02:35 PM
@kitz how do I find out of INP REIN figure in my router stats?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on July 31, 2018, 03:02:52 PM
@kitz how do I find out of INP REIN figure in my router stats?

adsl info --stats

You're looking for

Bearer 0
INPRein = 1
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Black Sheep on July 31, 2018, 07:08:11 PM
From my experience all Broadcom modems use retx high on 3, 4, and 5dB SNRM targets.

I've only ever once seen a line with a 3dB (or 4/5dB) SNRM target with retx low and that was Blacksheep using his
BT HH5A.
Usually we can't see the stats of this modem in detail but he posted his line profile which confirmed it.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20102.msg352352.html#msg352352

This was fairly early on in the XdB rollout so things may have changed but I'm pretty convinced the Broadcoms default to retx high.

Had another recently on a Hub 6.  :)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on July 31, 2018, 07:32:42 PM
 ??? How can you access to BT with all these service tools BS?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 01, 2018, 12:36:53 PM
He's an OpenReach engineer max ...

Thanks BS! Impossible to tell from the stats of said modem.

It's probably a Broadcom thing.
When MDWS was still up I checked every single user with a sub 6dB SNRM target* and every single 1 had Bearer 0 INPRein 1 which we understand to be retx high.

* it was easy to tell on mdws between snrm's with a lower target and those that had dropped from the 6dB target.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 01, 2018, 12:39:56 PM
Ah that's explain cos he work for openreach but I do think that's every customers should have that feature tools via the ISP.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Black Sheep on August 01, 2018, 03:45:37 PM
Thanks BS! Impossible to tell from the stats of said modem.



Not a problem, pal.  :)

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Archetype486 on August 01, 2018, 11:33:58 PM
I am currently on 3db and my line is re-tx low. It was on high after my line was un-banded and this was confirmed by my ISP.

Sync rate is: 68680
BRAS rate is: 66410 (96.74%)

How I got it changed was to manually limit my connection speed, thus reducing errors. The DLM then kicked in after just under a week and removed re-tx high.

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 18741 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68643 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 18741 Kbps, Downstream rate = 68680 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.3             6.1
Attn(dB):        18.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.3            7.4

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              22
B:              243             239
M:              1               1
T:              0               64
R:              10              14
S:              0.0000          0.4075
L:              17962           4987
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                56              0
TxQueue:                14              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         14              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               1477377
OHFErr:         7               718
RS:             1485793448              670977
RSCorr:         10471195                3948
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            116504466               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             1165044046              0
RSCorr:         203             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         3051208         0
rtx_c:          9323            0
rtx_uc:         32              0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         67              0
minEFTR:        68681           0
errFreeBits:    1960233053              0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2350277003              0
Data Cells:     868773811               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             5               676
SES:            0               0
UAS:            29              29
AS:             1871898

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.54
OR:             0.01            34.22
AgR:            68750.78        18775.16

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        282856/282856           16941/16943

Total time = 21 days 15 hours 58 min 47 sec
FEC:            10471195                3948
CRC:            7               718
ES:             5               676
SES:            0               0
UAS:            29              29
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 47 sec
FEC:            4640            3
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            5484            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 15 hours 58 min 47 sec
FEC:            299507          221
CRC:            0               33
ES:             0               29
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            412877          191
CRC:            0               32
ES:             0               32
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 21 days 15 hours 58 min 17 sec
FEC:            10471195                3948
CRC:            7               718
ES:             5               676
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 >
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 03, 2018, 09:34:21 PM
I am currently on 3db and my line is re-tx low. It was on high after my line was un-banded and this was confirmed by my ISP.

Sync rate is: 68680
BRAS rate is: 66410 (96.74%)

How I got it changed was to manually limit my connection speed, thus reducing errors. The DLM then kicked in after just under a week and removed re-tx high.

I can see your stats confirm this with Bearer 0 INPRein 0.
I'm now 110% confident this tells us with certainty if a line is retx low/high.

I just capped my own line from 46Mb to 32Mb in the hope of nudging DLM to retx low.

edit: to cap your line the necessary commands is

xdslcmd configure --maxDataRate 60000 20000 100000
or
adsl configure --maxDataRate 60000 20000 100000

This would cap the line at 60/20. The 3rd figure can be left at 100000. Adjust to suit your own line.

If you are unsure if you need to use adsl or xdslcmd feel free to ask and dungeons will be happy to advise.

Would anyone who is taking advantage of this advice to lower retransmission level and who runs DslStats spend a couple minutes of your time to contribute to the pool of knowledge.

I'm interested in seeing the following figures before capping your line and during the cap.

ES and FEC
and from the G.INP tab
rtx_tx, rtx_uc and LEFTERS

Snapshots/Screenshots of these graphs would be very much appreciated.
We would like to get some idea what parameters DLM is monitoring when deciding on retx high/low.

DslStats does not routinely gather snapshots of G.INP graphs but clicking the camera icon in the bottom left of DslStats while viewing each graph will take a snapshot of that particular graph.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on August 03, 2018, 10:23:18 PM
I just capped my own line from 46Mb to 32Mb in the hope of nudging DLM to retx low.

What CLI command did you enter mate?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on August 04, 2018, 12:51:06 AM
I can see your stats confirm this with Bearer 0 INPRein 0.
I'm now 110% confident this tells us with certainty if a line is retx low/high.

I think that INP Rein 0 = Off. 
Like you, I'm pretty sure that this is the indicator for re-tx low/high, which is why I asked Max to provide that info from his stats.

Quote
I just capped my own line from 46Mb to 32Mb in the hope of nudging DLM to retx low.

Interesting experiment.  Good luck :)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Archetype486 on August 04, 2018, 12:53:59 AM
What CLI command did you enter mate?

I used the information in this thread https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16427.0.html to cap my line.

adsl configure --maxDataRate 30000 15000 100000 is what I used on my Zyxel VMG8924-B10A
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Archetype486 on August 04, 2018, 01:04:58 AM
I can see your stats confirm this with Bearer 0 INPRein 0.
I'm now 110% confident this tells us with certainty if a line is retx low/high.

I just capped my own line from 46Mb to 32Mb in the hope of nudging DLM to retx low.

Hopefully it works for your line. Iím sure I capped my line at 30Mb and took a few days for the DLM to kick in if I can remember correctly, I done it a few months back and has been on re-tx low ever since.

My last modem reboot was 24 days ago and my line is pretty stable.

Iím glad that I could help confirm this.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: iwish on August 09, 2018, 04:37:39 PM
Going to stick in my own stats.. Have never played with the line so it is as it is.
Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 17943 Kbps, Downstream rate = 70940 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 17999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 72393 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 3.0 5.8
Attn(dB): 16.6 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.9 7.2
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 23
B: 243 239
M: 1 1
T: 0 64
R: 10 14
S: 0.1073 0.4242
L: 18933 4790
D: 8 1
I: 254 127
N: 254 254
Q: 8 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 56 0
TxQueue: 14 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 14 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 1170225
OHFErr: 0 194
RS: 191186664 829914
RSCorr: 368828 1528
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 57940793 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 579407315 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 16430834 0
rtx_c: 8548 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 38 0
minEFTR: 72378 0
errFreeBits: 1027465184 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 716779047 0
Data Cells: 2166399884 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 155
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
AS: 930687

Bearer 0
INP: 47.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 6.81
OR: 0.01 34.04
AgR: 72467.34 18033.49

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 410480/410480 24640/24643

Total time = 1 days 18 hours 31 min 54 sec
FEC: 368828 1528
CRC: 0 194
ES: 0 155
SES: 0 0
UAS: 27 27
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 54 sec
FEC: 46 3
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 893 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 18 hours 31 min 54 sec
FEC: 16489 66
CRC: 0 17
ES: 0 16
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 45895 61
CRC: 0 19
ES: 0 18
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 10 days 18 hours 31 min 27 sec
FEC: 368828 1528
CRC: 0 194
ES: 0 155
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on August 09, 2018, 05:43:06 PM
Nice! 3dB profile and NOT re-transmission high.

Bearer 0
INP:      47.00      0.00
INPRein:   0.00      0.00
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on August 11, 2018, 06:16:29 PM
So it worked!  :yay:
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 13, 2018, 01:47:19 AM
So it worked!  :yay:

That was just another user (but only the 2nd I've seen) showing retx low @ 3dB.

Then about 15 mins ago...

Quote
13 Aug 2018 01:21:57   Email alert sent: "Alert: Modem/router re-sync"

And we have a winner!

Code: [Select]
adsl info --stats

adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 6762 Kbps, Downstream rate = 46016 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6762 Kbps, Downstream rate = 45560 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps

Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime

                Down            Up

SNR (dB):        3.4             6.0
Attn(dB):        24.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.5           -0.6

                        VDSL2 framing

                        Bearer 0

MSGc:           -6              26
B:              235             207
M:              1               1
T:              0               37
R:              12              10
S:              0.0000          0.9765
L:              12035           1786
D:              8               1
I:              248             109
N:              248             218
Q:              8               0
V:              1               0

RxQueue:                36              0
TxQueue:                12              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         12              0
RRC bits:               0               24

                        Bearer 1

MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0

RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters

                        Bearer 0

OHF:            0               23154
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             5051464         856543
RSCorr:         18653           0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Bearer 1

OHF:            13073           0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             78070           0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters

rtx_tx:         96680573                0
rtx_c:          3019            0
rtx_uc:         71524           0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         11              0
minEFTR:        45553           0
errFreeBits:    145196597               0

                        Bearer 0

HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    18398873                0
Data Cells:     3792543         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1

HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             11              36
SES:            11              0
UAS:            890             879
AS:             210

                        Bearer 0

INP:            46.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.06
OR:             0.01            28.23
AgR:            45632.39        6789.77

                        Bearer 1

INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        67/67           3/3

Total time = 1 days 5 hours 46 min 20 sec

FEC:            53584           46
CRC:            581             39
ES:             11              36
SES:            11              0
UAS:            890             879
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0

Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 20 sec

FEC:            3907            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec

FEC:            14789           0
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

Latest 1 day time = 5 hours 46 min 20 sec

FEC:            26653           5
CRC:            581             7
ES:             11              7
SES:            11              0
UAS:            67              56
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0

Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec

FEC:            26931           41
CRC:            0               32
ES:             0               29
SES:            0               0
UAS:            823             823
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

Since Link time = 3 min 29 sec

FEC:            18653           0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0

NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

 >

It took a few hours over 9 days for DLM to drop from retx high to low.
I had anticipated 8-11 days.

IP Profile is 96.69%.
Hopefully it holds retx low. It's a nice little boost in throughput.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: banger on August 13, 2018, 02:19:04 AM
Good news John.  :cool:
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 13, 2018, 02:21:37 AM
That's good news John.

Has Openreach changed on retx low @ 3dB for everyones now to get IP Profile at the maximum rate 96.69%? I hope so :)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 13, 2018, 03:18:54 AM
No max I had to "trick" DLM in to thinking my line is more stable than it really is by capping my sync.

I always had 0 ES and 0 LEFTERS everyday.
rtx_tx only lowered a very small amount with my line capped.
The main change was my FEC numbers. They reduced from between 1,000 - 10,000/min to under 1,000/hour with the cap on.
This again makes me think DLM takes FEC into account.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 13, 2018, 03:23:22 AM
How to do this? This is very clever way to trick DLM. :)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: banger on August 13, 2018, 04:20:20 AM
Max see this sticky post.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,16427.0.html
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on August 13, 2018, 09:09:16 AM
My line is now in the 3dB with INP=48 (no INPREIN=1) club too:

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 28910 Kbps, Downstream rate = 82879 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.3             15.5
Attn(dB):        16.7            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.3            7.2

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              130             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              8               16
S:              0.0000          0.3781
L:              21468           5374
D:              16              1
I:              139             127
N:              139             254
Q:              16              0
V:              14              0
RxQueue:                60              0
TxQueue:                20              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         20              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              5.3333          0.0000
L:              48              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               197297
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             60230352                3987849
RSCorr:         2867            0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            48809           0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             584965          0
RSCorr:         0               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         43403           0
rtx_c:          0               0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        79982           0
errFreeBits:    956596          0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    120614397               0
Data Cells:     7403226         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
AS:             784

                        Bearer 0
INP:            48.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            80614.82        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        239/239         0/0

Total time = 13 min 34 sec
FEC:            2867            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 34 sec
FEC:            2867            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 13 min 34 sec
FEC:            2867            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            30              30
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 13 min 3 sec
FEC:            2867            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 >

I capped my line at 71M and DLM acted after 4 days. Lets just hope the reduced INP levels remain...  :fingers:
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on August 13, 2018, 10:02:12 AM
Then about 15 mins ago...

And we have a winner!

IP Profile is 96.69%.
Hopefully it holds retx low. It's a nice little boost in throughput.

Excellent news  :yay:

Quote
I always had 0 ES and 0 LEFTERS everyday.
rtx_tx only lowered a very small amount with my line capped.
The main change was my FEC numbers. They reduced from between 1,000 - 10,000/min to under 1,000/hour with the cap on.
This again makes me think DLM takes FEC into account.

That is interesting as previously Openreach said they didn't from a few sources. 
However since G.INP I've suspected they used other params and when I asked, they wouldn't be drawn.  When I mentioned LEFTRS it was glossed over, but I should/would have thought that would be the most likely one to watch.

--------------

PS did your rtx_uc figures change?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Ixel on August 13, 2018, 10:16:14 AM
I've always suspected that Openreach's DLM takes FEC errors into consideration, as to whether it's worth removing traditional interleaving or not for example. It's interesting to read someone else's experience and the possibility that it may do so.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 13, 2018, 11:09:16 AM
My stats below and please tell me what are the best to limit my line cap before 3dB with low rx kick in to get back to 79999K?

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 27064 Kbps, Downstream rate = 81035 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78171 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.5             15.1
Attn(dB):        12.0            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.4            0.9

Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78250.80        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        0/0             0/0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 13, 2018, 11:10:51 AM
My line is now in the 3dB with INP=48 (no INPREIN=1) club too:

I capped my line at 71M and DLM acted after 4 days. Lets just hope the reduced INP levels remain...  :fingers:

What was your stats before DLM act?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 13, 2018, 02:00:38 PM
Max your line is already Retransmission Low.
I don't think you can trick DLM in to lowering the SNRM target.

If DLM lowers your SNRM to 5dB and increases your sync to 79,999 it will move you to Retransmission High and you will get slower throughput than you do now.

If that happens post here and I will happily recommend a cap to try lower the line to Retransmission Low.
Until then you shouldn't worry about it or obsess over a couple Mb. You sync considerably higher than most already.

I've always suspected that Openreach's DLM takes FEC errors into consideration, as to whether it's worth removing traditional interleaving or not for example.

That's exactly my thoughts. My experience is it only uses FEC figures when deciding to remove interleaving or lower retx from high to low.
i don't believe DLM takes negative action for high FEC, but it may not make positive changes if FEC is working hard.


Quote from: kitz
PS did your rtx_uc figures change?

No change there either. The only noticeable change to any my figures while the line was capped was the FEC's which dropped significantly.
I had the exact same with sticky interleaving on my ECI cabinet. ES were under 100/day for months, well below ILQ green but interleaving would not budge.
Capping the line lowered FEC from circa 10,000/min to just under 1,000/hour and the line returned to fastpath.

I'm not convinced my line will hold retx low unfortunately.
Every single day I have 0 ES/LEFTERS with retx high but so far I've had 33 LEFTERS in the last 12 hours on retx low so it certainly seems makes a difference.
It's no doubt pushing my line which over achieves considerably.
24.6dB attenuation and 1022m long from my last GEA test I do not bad getting 45Mb.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on August 13, 2018, 05:56:44 PM
What was your stats before DLM act?

Sync 79999 on 3dB with INP=52 and INPREIN=1
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 13, 2018, 06:17:47 PM
Max your line is already Retransmission Low.
I don't think you can trick DLM in to lowering the SNRM target.

If DLM lowers your SNRM to 5dB and increases your sync to 79,999 it will move you to Retransmission High and you will get slower throughput than you do now.

If that happens post here and I will happily recommend a cap to try lower the line to Retransmission Low.
Until then you shouldn't worry about it or obsess over a couple Mb. You sync considerably higher than most already.


Thanks j0hn. Will let u know if my retransmission get higher, I doubt it will be for a while.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 13, 2018, 07:14:00 PM
A small curiosity...
The other 3 lines posted with retx low all have something similar

Quote
   Bearer 0
INP:      47.00      0.00
INPRein:   0.00      0.00
delay:      0      0
PER:      0.00      6.81
OR:      0.01      34.04
AgR:      72467.34   18033.49

         Bearer 1
INP:      4.50      0.00
INPRein:   4.50      0.00
delay:      3      0
PER:      16.06      0.01
OR:      79.68      0.01
AgR:      79.68   0.01

Note the delay on Bearer 1

My line has...

Quote
Bearer 0

INP:            46.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.06
OR:             0.01            28.23
AgR:            45632.39        6789.77

                        Bearer 1

INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Does anyone know the significance?
I understood Bearer 1 to only carry Retransmission messages.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: ejs on August 13, 2018, 08:11:37 PM
I understood Bearer 1 to only carry Retransmission messages.

No, it carries all the overhead messages, many of which will be unrelated to retransmission functions.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on August 14, 2018, 04:55:57 PM
Been synced a tad under 80MBit for months with a 4dB SNR target but RETX high (so coming from RETX Low at 6dB to a sub 6dB target hasn't really done anything for me overall)so just decided to cap my line at 65MBit today to see if I can get Re Tx low back again.

Already I can see that I've gone from about 5000 FEC/hour to about 15 so curious how long this takes.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 15, 2018, 01:25:02 PM
What were your ES/LEFTERS like before?
Have any other figures dropped? (particularly rtx figures).
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Archetype486 on August 15, 2018, 01:59:44 PM
I now wish I had posted my stats and finding when I got mine to work as it seems to be helping others.

Well at least the information is out there now.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on August 15, 2018, 05:18:04 PM
What were your ES/LEFTERS like before?
Have any other figures dropped? (particularly rtx figures).

Like 0-1ES per day on the downstream but quite a few on the upstream (~300 a day).
My stats with the cap;
Quote
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.063 Mbps       64.996 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     19.999 Mbps       64.997 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:       15.2 dB            6.8 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:      - 2.1 dBm          13.2 dBm
           Receive Power:      -17.3 dBm           1.2 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      51.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          12.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     23.581 Mbps       80.337 Mbps
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Hitman on August 16, 2018, 06:10:49 PM
Just got my result from doing this procedure on my DGA4132 5 days ago - capped at 15000/60000 and got my DSLstat email saying resync this morning, now InpRein is 0 from 1, results below.

Question: How are you guy's removing your cap, best via command line or a reboot? I don't want to upset the applecart.

Results
Before
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 23537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73653 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 72240 Kbps
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.1             14.9
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            3.9

Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         454             0
rtx_c:          435             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

After
Code: [Select]
Max:    Upstream rate = 23223 Kbps, Downstream rate = 74270 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             18.8
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            3.7

Bearer 0
INP:            48.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         32              0
rtx_c:          32              0
rtx_uc:         0               0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 16, 2018, 06:21:07 PM
Did any of you who successfully forced retx low notice a considerable drop in any of the below figures?

ES or FEC
rtx_tx, rtx_uc or LEFTERS (from the G.INP tab on DslStats)

It would be good to try collaborate and try narrow down which parameters DLM is interested in for changing retx high/low.

Makes me really miss MDWS  :no:

edit:

Quote from: Hitman
Question: How are you guy's removing your cap, best via command line or a reboot? I don't want to upset the applecart.

I just applied a cap slightly higher than what I can sync at.

For me I set 48000 10000 100000
I usually sync about 45-46Mb but the 48Mb cap ensures I won't sync any higher if the DSLAM reboots and I reconnect before crosstalkers.

Having only a 3dB SNRM means less headroom for such events. If I connect higher than that my ES/LEFTERS increase considerably and DLM drops me to 4dB very quickly.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 16, 2018, 06:24:21 PM
Bring back MDWS please
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Hitman on August 16, 2018, 06:52:12 PM
Did any of you who successfully forced retx low notice a considerable drop in any of the below figures?

ES or FEC
rtx_tx, rtx_uc or LEFTERS (from the G.INP tab on DslStats)

It would be good to try collaborate and try narrow down which parameters DLM is interested in for changing retx high/low.

Makes me really miss MDWS  :no:

edit:

I just applied a cap slightly higher than what I can sync at.

For me I set 48000 10000 100000
I usually sync about 45-46Mb but the 48Mb cap ensures I won't sync any higher if the DSLAM reboots and I reconnect before crosstalkers.

Having only a 3dB SNRM means less headroom for such events. If I connect higher than that my ES/LEFTERS increase considerably and DLM drops me to 4dB very quickly.

Thanks John,

So would you say 20000/73000 would be ok for my line, although I would prefer just to remove any cap in place (thus a power down/remove VDSL cable/wait 30mins reconnect and power up would be the safest thing to do for this?).

I'll have a better indication of differences once I get the full sync back up, although LEFTERs/ES were 0 before and I doubt this will change, 0 now on current sync, some small amount on U/L.

Anyway my full stats before capping the line, i'll post my new stats after a good data population...

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 23537 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73653 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 72240 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        3.1             14.9
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              10              16
S:              0.1076          0.3781
L:              18893           5374
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                80              0
TxQueue:                16              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         16              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               89486540
OHFErr:         0               176
RS:             272290056               3756773600
RSCorr:         116188          386
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            22110941                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             221108794               0
RSCorr:         635             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         454             0
rtx_c:          435             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        72243           0
errFreeBits:    391382839               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2094954691              0
Data Cells:     1032067411              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               161
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
AS:             355150

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            72314.24        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        57249/58428             280/280

Total time = 4 days 2 hours 39 min 38 sec
FEC:            116188          386
CRC:            0               176
ES:             0               161
SES:            0               0
UAS:            28              28
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 38 sec
FEC:            112             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            228             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 39 min 38 sec
FEC:            2520            24
CRC:            0               3
ES:             0               3
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            31565           51
CRC:            0               48
ES:             0               46
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 4 days 2 hours 39 min 9 sec
FEC:            116188          386
CRC:            0               176
ES:             0               161
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 16, 2018, 07:06:16 PM
80000 20000 100000 would effectively remove the cap.
Rebooting would also be fine though.

I'm interested in the changes in figures from before the cap and during the cap.
I want to try identify what figures DLM notices are lower that makes it try retx low.

Figures after the line has gone retx low won't help with that but will still add to the overall pool of data and would be appreciated.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Hitman on August 16, 2018, 07:17:37 PM
80000 20000 100000 would effectively remove the cap.
Rebooting would also be fine though.

I'm interested in the changes in figures from before the cap and during the cap.
I want to try identify what figures DLM notices are lower that makes it try retx low.

Figures after the line has gone retx low won't help with that but will still add to the overall pool of data and would be appreciated.

Ok sure and thanks again, here's my capped data from a day ago /before the resync at 7.42am this morning, the rest /after resync will follow later.....

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 23987 Kbps, Downstream rate = 71350 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.6             18.6
Attn(dB):        13.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.4            4.1

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              122             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               35
R:              8               16
S:              0.0647          0.5038
L:              16186           4033
D:              8               1
I:              131             127
N:              131             254
Q:              8               0
V:              7               0
RxQueue:                135             0
TxQueue:                27              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         27              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           122             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              8.0000          0.0000
L:              32              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               31185554
OHFErr:         0               88
RS:             4161248720              1090771296
RSCorr:         1916            25
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            8555019         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             68439657                0
RSCorr:         89              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         307             0
rtx_c:          307             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        60005           0
errFreeBits:    402187887               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2970613809              0
Data Cells:     353045901               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               223
SES:            0               0
UAS:            65              65
AS:             137413

                        Bearer 0
INP:            55.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            4.42
OR:             0.01            57.84
AgR:            60553.63        15056.99

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.00            0.00
INPRein:        2.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             63.75           0.01
AgR:            63.75   0.01

Bitswap:        1080/1138               6/6

Total time = 4 days 12 hours 36 min 10 sec
FEC:            29742           2112
CRC:            0               233
ES:             0               223
SES:            0               0
UAS:            65              65
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           1
HostInitRetr:   1
FailedRetr:     0
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 10 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            1511            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           N/A
HostInitRetr:   N/A
FailedRetr:     N/A
Latest 1 day time = 12 hours 36 min 10 sec
FEC:            1718            8
CRC:            0               33
ES:             0               33
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            193             17
CRC:            0               54
ES:             0               54
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
Since Link time = 1 days 14 hours 10 min 11 sec
FEC:            1916            25
CRC:            0               88
ES:             0               88
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Retr:           0
HostInitRetr:   0
FailedRetr:     0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 16, 2018, 11:28:17 PM
Are I getting high retx now on my line?

Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: iwish on August 16, 2018, 11:31:48 PM
you need the stats from Bearer 0 not one
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 16, 2018, 11:35:36 PM
Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78468.97        20063.54
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: johnson on August 17, 2018, 12:33:12 AM
For me I set 48000 10000 100000
I usually sync about 45-46Mb but the 48Mb cap ensures I won't sync any higher if the DSLAM reboots and I reconnect before crosstalkers.

So the settings passed to "xdslctl configure" persist even after a resync? So all that need to be done to make any settings like maxDataRate or snr for those that use it persistent across reboots is to have the xdslctl configure command issued at some point during the boot?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on August 17, 2018, 03:45:12 AM
Quote
I'm interested in the changes in figures from before the cap and during the cap.

I've been thinking about this.  Previously they denied using FEC.  I tried asking about LEFTRS but it was completely glossed over.
The most obvious is probably LEFTRS or rtx_uc yet you have seen no difference in either of those.. nor Err/Secs

I'm still not totally dismissing FEC, but what about the SNRMargin...  eg:   
if (Profile == 3dB) && (SNRM > 5dB) && (Errors < 'x') then reduce retx

I just made up 5dB.  Errors could be LEFTRS/ErrSecs as usual

If it is SNRM, it could explain why capping works not just for retx, but was also able to remove Interleaving.   Openreach doesn't expect people to be able to tweak the Target SNRM anymore... but when we cap we are artificially increasing the SNRM.

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on August 17, 2018, 09:49:02 AM
So in the early hours of this morning, approx just 36 hours after imposing my cap DLM intervention caused a resync which removed Re Tx High and I'm now back on low. It also appears to have moved me from a 4dB target to a 3dB target SNR finally.
Stats after resync.
Quote
===================================================================================
       VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.063 Mbps       64.998 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     19.999 Mbps       64.999 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        7.1 dB            6.6 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:      - 2.1 dBm          13.2 dBm
           Receive Power:      -17.1 dBm           1.2 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      46.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          12.0 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     22.653 Mbps       78.462 Mbps


After removing cap;
Quote
        VDSL Port Details       Upstream         Downstream
               Line Rate:     20.063 Mbps       76.736 Mbps
    Actual Net Data Rate:     19.999 Mbps       76.737 Mbps
          Trellis Coding:         ON                ON
              SNR Margin:        7.2 dB            3.4 dB
            Actual Delay:          0 ms              0 ms
          Transmit Power:      - 2.1 dBm          13.2 dBm
           Receive Power:      -17.1 dBm           1.1 dBm
              Actual INP:        0.0 symbols      47.0 symbols
       Total Attenuation:        0.0 dB          12.1 dB
Attainable Net Data Rate:     22.641 Mbps       77.313 Mbps


Note I do have an occasional source of interference that reduces my SNR by approx 1dB and sometimes lasts for a day, sometimes for a few weeks so I'm not sure if this is the reason that my attainable (and thus new actual sync speed) is lower than 80MBit or if the reason is because of ReTx low and no INP REIN being switched on. I used to use MDWS but since its demise I've sadly lacked closer scrutiny of my connection.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on August 17, 2018, 09:59:45 AM
Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78468.97        20063.54

ReTx LOW
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 17, 2018, 10:20:23 AM
I wish my line get ReTx HIGH and change to ReTx LOW with SNR 3dB to get my line back to 79999K on it own by DLM but maybe I should wait longer. :(
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: johnson on August 17, 2018, 02:20:09 PM
Sorry for this second OT post, but I was playing with "xdslctl configure" options last night with a view to placing one in the start up of a zyxel modem.

"xdslctl configure --maxDataRate" clears a lot of other options from the configuration of the modem when issued. To the extent that VDSL as a modulation type becomes disabled, obviously this cant really be the case as the way it has been used by people in this thread would not work. It also clears phyre, but I guess this in an ADSL thing, but also bitswap, sra and trellis.. at least as reported after the command.

So the VDSL lines people have tried this on behave exactly as before after creating the cap? Makes me think very little of the modems chosen settings have any effect at all.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 17, 2018, 02:50:32 PM
bitswap always continues to work as normal.
never had a problem setting maxdatarate it's a command I've played with for a few years.

I dont use "xdslctl configure --maxDataRate" but rather "adsl configure --maxDataRate" but i would expect identical results from both.

It survives all resyncs wether DSLAM rebooting, DLM initiated or user initiated. It only clears after a reboot of the modem.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on August 17, 2018, 03:12:32 PM
I have now settled on capping my line at 74000 to keep FEC errors nice and low - just 20,000 in the last 24hrs. My BRAS IP profile is now 73.7Mbps.

It does seem daft that BT lower your SNR margin to 3dB to increase line speed, however they then add INPREIN=1 which reduces your IP profile and data throughput massively.

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 17, 2018, 03:36:32 PM
As long don't let openreach see this thread post otherwise openreach could adjusted DLM to stop people's mess around with cap the line and trying to get low rxt
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on August 17, 2018, 03:53:10 PM
I don't think they'd care so much about us using this method.   What they did not like is people adjusting their Target SNR margin to say 2/3db and then some numpties complaining because their line became unstable at such low rates.   BT made specific mention of people playing with Target SNRM to have an adverse effect on the line.   

This method is in effect increasing the Target SNRm (rather than reducing) to give DLM a nudge.    DLM is now clever enough to know that if the line is unstable to take back what it giveth.

The old method was permanently able to over-ride DLM parameters.  This method just gives the DLM a tap on the shoulder to say "hey I think this line is ok and stable enough to have a better profile...  but you still have full control over it." 
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: kitz on August 17, 2018, 03:55:26 PM
It does seem daft that BT lower your SNR margin to 3dB to increase line speed, however they then add INPREIN=1 which reduces your IP profile and data throughput massively.

It does rather  ???
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: NewtronStar on August 17, 2018, 06:46:37 PM
The capping method worked as Archetytype486 suggested RTX is now low after 2 days with cap in place, INP: has been stuck at 52.00 and also interleaving Depth of 4 for 5 months.
INP: now at 45.00 and interleaved depth 16.

Before capping the sync to 26000 Kbps the FECS per day were 3-4 million, Errored seconds 4 - 7 SNRM 4.8dB, after capping the SNRM rose to 12dB FECS went down to 5000 per day and just 1 errored second in 2 days.

Code: [Select]
adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 6469 Kbps, Downstream rate = 44903 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6469 Kbps, Downstream rate = 40000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        4.7             6.0
Attn(dB):        25.0            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        11.2            0.3

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              138             191
M:              1               1
T:              0               41
R:              8               10
S:              0.1101          0.9423
L:              10684           1715
D:              16              1
I:              147             101
N:              147             202
Q:              16              0
V:              12              0
RxQueue:                27              0
TxQueue:                9               0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         9               0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               729254
OHFErr:         2               0
RS:             862036672               2327746
RSCorr:         115685          5
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            1482645         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             8895502         0
RSCorr:         16              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         28220423                0
rtx_c:          937             0
rtx_uc:         5               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         25              0
minEFTR:        39989           0
errFreeBits:    14526711                0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1831866277              0
Data Cells:     12971644                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             2               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            19              19
AS:             23819

                        Bearer 0
INP:            45.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.69
OR:             0.01            26.40
AgR:            40252.99        6495.02

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        6760/6760               5/5

Total time = 6 hours 37 min 18 sec
FEC:            115685          5
CRC:            2               0
ES:             2               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            19              19
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 18 sec
FEC:            5092            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            6086            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 6 hours 37 min 18 sec
FEC:            115685          5
CRC:            2               0
ES:             2               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            19              19
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 6 hours 36 min 59 sec
FEC:            115685          5
CRC:            2               0
ES:             2               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Thanks Kitizens
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 19, 2018, 11:57:38 AM
Hi,

Noticed my IP Profile is now 74.1 instead of 77.35 even though my Sync is at 79999/19999 and my max Attainable is 82492 and 249595

I have an unlocked Openreach modem, if I cap my line to 64999 and 14999 would this cause the DLM ?

Cheers
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Hitman on August 19, 2018, 12:45:05 PM
Hi,

Noticed my IP Profile is now 74.1 instead of 77.35 even though my Sync is at 79999/19999 and my max Attainable is 82492 and 249595

I have an unlocked Openreach modem, if I cap my line to 64999 and 14999 would this cause the DLM ?

Cheers

If you are on Rtx high then yes, can you post your --stats with the included INP: and INPRein: for Bearer 0 details to see if you have a high/low Rtx...

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 19, 2018, 12:57:47 PM
If you are on Rtx high then yes, can you post your --stats with the included INP: and INPRein: for Bearer 0 details to see if you have a high/low Rtx...

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 25699 Kbps, Downstream rate = 82828 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14992 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64989 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 8.9 18.7
Attn(dB): 13.9 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.3 4.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 130 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 35
R: 8 16
S: 0.0638 0.5041
L: 17440 4031
D: 8 1
I: 139 127
N: 139 254
Q: 8 0
V: 6 0
RxQueue: 136 0
TxQueue: 34 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 31 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 834244
OHFErr: 0 3
RS: 229837160 3424251
RSCorr: 113 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 229042 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 2289805 0
RSCorr: 3 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 1813066 0
rtx_c: 643 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 64991 0
errFreeBits: 1009654230 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 459767709 0
Data Cells: 8860303 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 168
SES: 0 0
UAS: 106 106
AS: 3679

Bearer 0
INP: 51.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 4.42
OR: 0.01 57.81
AgR: 65489.21 15049.52

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 1352/1352 2/2

Total time = 1 days 19 hours 9 min 53 sec
FEC: 3074405 991
CRC: 0 185
ES: 0 168
SES: 0 0
UAS: 106 106
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 53 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 30 0
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 9 min 53 sec
FEC: 2004 164
CRC: 0 40
ES: 0 36
SES: 0 0
UAS: 83 83
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 972475 355
CRC: 0 69
ES: 0 66
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 1 min 19 sec
FEC: 113 0
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0

Okay, I have applied the cap but also posted the stats for you mate
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 19, 2018, 01:19:56 PM
Why would you cap the upstream at 14999K? Should be cap at 64000/20000/100000
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 19, 2018, 01:29:53 PM
Why would you cap the upstream at 14999K? Should be cap at 64000/20000/100000

Ahhh okay, wasn't totally sure
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 19, 2018, 02:23:08 PM
You would only need to cap the upstream if that also had retx high. That may result in DLM removing G.INP from the upstream completely for anyone who is fortunate enough to have it.
I'm not too sure about the effect of retx high on upstream throughput though?

I edited a previous post and added this text below but will post it here again for the benefit of anyone who's been following the thread and wishing to try this.

Would anyone who is taking advantage of this advice to lower retransmission level and who runs DslStats spend a couple minutes of your time to contribute to the pool of knowledge.

I'm interested in seeing the following figures before capping your line and during the cap.

ES and FEC
and from the G.INP tab
rtx_tx, rtx_uc and LEFTERS

Snapshots/Screenshots of these graphs would be very much appreciated.
We would like to get some idea what parameters DLM is monitoring when deciding on retx high/low.

DslStats does not routinely gather snapshots of G.INP graphs but clicking the camera icon in the bottom left of DslStats while viewing each graph will take a snapshot of that particular graph.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 19, 2018, 02:42:50 PM
Mine still on retx low on bearer 0 and snr stay at 6.4dB with sync rate 78389k for nearly three days now no DLM act yet on target Snr 3dB
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 19, 2018, 03:10:36 PM
Max DLM will likely take weeks/months before it tries lowering your SNRM.
Your line has been running at full sync on 6dB for months.

I've no idea why you are getting so worked up over 1.6Mb  :no:
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: pooclah on August 19, 2018, 06:27:50 PM
I donít need the re-tx low but in the interest of the experiment Iím happy to give it a go and will be capping my line shortly.

My current stats are:

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 25164 Kbps, Downstream rate = 81488 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.4 15.3
Attn(dB): 11.8 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.7 -0.9
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 162 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 8 16
S: 0.0647 0.3781
L: 21128 5374
D: 8 1
I: 171 127
N: 171 254
Q: 8 0
V: 2 0
RxQueue: 136 0
TxQueue: 34 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 31 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 5.3333 0.0000
L: 48 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 2383145
OHFErr: 6 1282
RS: 2727330880 4082190
RSCorr: 114770 76517
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 54901416 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 658816249 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 401992 0
rtx_c: 12107 0
rtx_uc: 29 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 9 0
minEFTR: 79980 0
errFreeBits: 1075859857 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 2523117061 0
Data Cells: 4050885085 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 3 1133
SES: 0 0
UAS: 20 20
AS: 881875

Bearer 0
INP: 52.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 80244.76 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Bitswap: 473433/473433 4217/4217

Total time = 1 days 4 hours 58 min 15 sec
FEC: 114770 76517
CRC: 6 1282
ES: 3 1133
SES: 0 0
UAS: 20 20
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 15 sec
FEC: 31 8
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 9 13
CRC: 0 9
ES: 0 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 4 hours 58 min 15 sec
FEC: 720 170
CRC: 0 39
ES: 0 31
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 3547 19606
CRC: 0 142
ES: 0 126
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 10 days 4 hours 57 min 53 sec
FEC: 114770 76517
CRC: 6 1282
ES: 3 1133
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0

My stats are viewable at https://www.pooclah.net/dslstats (https://www.pooclah.net/dslstats)

Unfortunately I donít keep history, donít have time to set it up this evening, and working away Monday to Friday so it wonít happen any time soon.

If anyone is interested they can keep an eye on my stats from the link above.

Kevin
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 19, 2018, 09:15:10 PM
It's very much appreciated unfortunately none of the G.INP stats are snapshot automatically or in the Webserver.

Could you possibly click the camera in the bottom left of each of the G.INP tabs on DslStats?

Once now with a graph full of pre cap stats, then a further once during the cap should suffice.  :hat:
a graph of half and half would be alright too.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 19, 2018, 10:07:20 PM
https://www.pooclah.net/dslstats/

I like this setup how to do this?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Archetype486 on August 19, 2018, 10:44:53 PM
Would anyone who is taking advantage of this advice to lower retransmission level and who runs DslStats spend a couple minutes of your time to contribute to the pool of knowledge.

I am happy about sharing anything I have. I don't think I have anything before capping my line but I will look through my archives and backups.

I am away from home for the next couple of days but I will see what I have access to remotely.

I have not got around to setting consistent saving of data since MDWS closed down
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: burakkucat on August 19, 2018, 11:03:35 PM
https://www.pooclah.net/dslstats/

I like this setup how to do this?

Make a start by reading through this thread (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21237.0.html), Max. There should be enough there to get you going with your own customised version.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 20, 2018, 12:15:14 AM
Make a start by reading through this thread (https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21237.0.html), Max. There should be enough there to get you going with your own customised version.

Sorry I am thick, don't know how to setup etc..can anyones please explain how to do this step by step in windows 10. I have posted this thread as above.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 20, 2018, 12:08:49 PM
Max DLM will likely take weeks/months before it tries lowering your SNRM.
Your line has been running at full sync on 6dB for months.

I've no idea why you are getting so worked up over 1.6Mb  :no:

My router has been resync just confirmed by dslstats alert email at 11:34am and it changed from the upstream to reduced 19999K to 17745K and downstream reduced from 78389K to 74022K and reduced upstream SNR from 15.1dB to 7.6dB but the downstream SNR went up from 6.4dB to 7.3dB. Interleave Depth annd INP are unchanged.

Code: [Select]
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xa48c (164.140) / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode:                VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                  Showtime
Uptime:                  0 hour 31 min 36 sec
Resyncs:                1 (since 20 Aug 2018 01:08:14)

Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  12.0 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 74022 17745
SNR margin (dB):        7.3 7.6
Power (dBm):            12.5 1.3
Interleave depth:        8 1
INP:                    49.00 0
G.INP:                  Enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status:        5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)

RSCorr/RS (%):          0.7344 0.0000
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        0.0000 0.0000
ES/hour:                1.62 4.13

Code: [Select]
Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            6.91
OR:             0.01            28.92
AgR:            74097.89        17774.56

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        1432/1433               469/471

My throughput are very poor via ethernet don't know why it capped at 50/16 from 74/19

http://www.speedtest.net/result/7566551392.png

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 20, 2018, 02:16:43 PM
I managed to force DLM to removed banded on my line via telnet to force it to removed it off. It's has successfully removed it off.

Cheesy (leave my line alone DLM)

Mode    VDSL2
Traffic Type    PTM
Status    Up
Link Power State    L0
 
     Downstream    Upstream
Line Coding (Trellis)    On    On
SNR Margin (dB)    6.4    15.1
Attenuation (dB)    12.0    0.0
Output Power (dBm)    12.5    0.9
Attainable Rate (Kbps)    79145    26598
Rate (Kbps)            78343    19999
Throughput speed:       73Mbps  18Mbps

 http://www.speedtest.net/result/7566780518.png

For your connection, the acceptable range of speedsis 40 Mbps-75.75 Mbps .
 Additional Information:
 IP Profile for your line is - 75.75 Mbps

Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78423.04        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        0/0             0/0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: ejs on August 20, 2018, 06:43:48 PM
It wasn't banded, nothing you did removed any banding. All you did was resync the modem and got back to some more usual stats.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 20, 2018, 06:47:15 PM
Plusnet found a fault on the line and sent off to BT Wholesale. As GEA Test still come back test fail.

Code: [Select]
Test Outcome Fail
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_1625
Description Impairment in copper joint detected most likely in local network. Please continue to submit a trouble report
Main Fault Location CE
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: ejs on August 20, 2018, 06:56:33 PM
Yes, I saw, congratulations, I assume you wanted to have a fault.

That still doesn't mean that every single change to your dsl stats is the DLM's doing.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 20, 2018, 06:58:55 PM
Oh dear me! Retrain 200000  :'( DLM more likely to banded the line overnight  :'( :'(
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 21, 2018, 01:49:36 AM
DLM has resync my line. Both now enabled on interleave depth at 8/8 INP 47/47 but Bearer 0 are now re-tx high on downstream

 
 Additional Information:
 IP Profile for your line is - 71.67 Mbps (91.96% to the sync rate 77941Kbps due to re-tx high on downstream)


Code: [Select]
Connection stats

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 29216 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78721 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77941 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             11.9
Attn(dB):        11.9            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5            0.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              243             97
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              10              8
S:              0.0997          0.1554
L:              20384           5457
D:              8               8
I:              254             106
N:              254             106
Q:              8               8
V:              0               2
RxQueue:                80              39
TxQueue:                20              13
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         20              13
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              5.3333          16.0000
L:              48              16
D:              3               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             43047528                1957504
RSCorr:         5               5
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            67112           67325
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             804607          269301
RSCorr:         1               2
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         129368          4
rtx_c:          9               1577
rtx_uc:         0               79134

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               24
minEFTR:        77931           19997
errFreeBits:    1281555         391302483

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    161577627               0
Data Cells:     1094583         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
AS:             1079

                        Bearer 0
INP:            47.00           47.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            78021.15        20102.08

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            4.00
INPRein:        4.00            4.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             95.62           31.87
AgR:            95.62   31.87

Bitswap:        1/1             1/1

Total time = 18 min 25 sec
FEC:            5               5
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 min 25 sec
FEC:            1               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            4               5
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 18 min 25 sec
FEC:            5               5
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 17 min 57 sec
FEC:            5               5
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: twinkletoes on August 23, 2018, 03:15:05 PM
After banding my line to 60000/15000 for a few days, here's my latest stats with a cap of 75000 on DS...

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 27792 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78555 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 74997 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        5.5             15.5
Attn(dB):        15.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.0            6.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              162             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              8               16
S:              0.0691          0.3781
L:              19807           5374
D:              8               1
I:              171             127
N:              171             254
Q:              8               0
V:              2               0
RxQueue:                128             0
TxQueue:                32              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         31              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              6.4000          0.0000
L:              40              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               4136659
OHFErr:         0               214
RS:             3850163136              1696433
RSCorr:         4428            15067
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            4154957         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             41549572                0
RSCorr:         73              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         7370            0
rtx_c:          434             0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        74988           0
errFreeBits:    76349339                0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1035463588              0
Data Cells:     7800535         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               180
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
AS:             66749

                        Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            75227.56        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            0.00
INPRein:        4.50            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             79.68           0.01
AgR:            79.68   0.01

Bitswap:        2740/2740               491/491

Total time = 18 hours 32 min 29 sec
FEC:            4428            15067
CRC:            0               214
ES:             0               180
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 29 sec
FEC:            1               0
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            31              3
CRC:            0               2
ES:             0               2
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 18 hours 32 min 29 sec
FEC:            4428            15067
CRC:            0               214
ES:             0               180
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 18 hours 32 min 29 sec
FEC:            4428            15067
CRC:            0               214
ES:             0               180
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Seems to have nudged the DLM to try a lower SNRm while increasing the max attainable :)

Steve
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on August 23, 2018, 03:47:24 PM
Steve

Your line still on high retx

Code: [Select]
Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            75227.56        20063.54
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 23, 2018, 04:05:45 PM
Steve

Your line still on high retx

Code: [Select]
Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            75227.56        20063.54

Indeed it is, but I think he's pointing out that it nudged DLM in to lowering the SNRM target from 6dB to 5dB or from 5dB to 4dB (I can't work out which from the attainable and actual SNRM shown).

I believe (could be wrong) DLM will try retx high first when lowering the target SNRM. If not always it does most of the time.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: pooclah on August 25, 2018, 01:11:16 PM
Success

Code: [Select]
Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 60083.56 20063.54

Apologies j0hn I didnít see your request until after Iíd applied the cap.  I did grab a set of images a few hours after the cap & another set this morning after re-tx high was removed.

If they are of any use you can view them here

https://www.pooclah.net/ginp/ (https://www.pooclah.net/ginp/)

Kevin
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 25, 2018, 03:41:05 PM
You caught the change from before cap to during cap.

There was a decent drop in rtx_tx and LEFTERS with the cap on.
rtx_uc was pretty much nil pre-cap.

Cheers Kevin, much appreciated!



Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: pooclah on August 25, 2018, 04:06:35 PM

No problem.

I've just removed the cap and I'll do another set in a couple of days for comparison.

Kevin
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: pooclah on August 27, 2018, 04:10:18 PM

Iíve added todays G.inp data while on retx low in case itís of use to anyone.

https://www.pooclah.net/ginp/27-08-18.htm (https://www.pooclah.net/ginp/27-08-18.htm)

Now to see if it holds.

Kevin
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 29, 2018, 04:30:11 PM
How long roughly does the DLM take after applying the cap, been about 8 days now
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 29, 2018, 04:50:59 PM
In my experience it can be 8-11 days.
If you were overly cautious your cap may not be enough.

What cap did you set?
Sorry if already mentioned in the thread I'm on my phone atm.

I would advise waiting another 3 days before changing anything anyway.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 29, 2018, 05:23:28 PM
In my experience it can be 8-11 days.
If you were overly cautious your cap may not be enough.

What cap did you set?
Sorry if already mentioned in the thread I'm on my phone atm.

I would advise waiting another 3 days before changing anything anyway.

Set my cap to 64999 19999 from 79999 19999
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 29, 2018, 07:08:24 PM
Sounds sufficient. Good luck keep us posted.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 29, 2018, 07:09:10 PM
Sounds sufficient. Good luck keep us posted.

Yeah I will:) cheers
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on August 29, 2018, 07:50:32 PM
It took less than 48 hours for me and I think another person here too. Maybe still too many errors?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: JordanBlack68 on August 30, 2018, 11:14:09 AM
Update:

It worked after 9 days !

Old Stats:

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 25699 Kbps, Downstream rate = 82828 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14992 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64989 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 8.9 18.7
Attn(dB): 13.9 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.3 4.3
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 130 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 35
R: 8 16
S: 0.0638 0.5041
L: 17440 4031
D: 8 1
I: 139 127
N: 139 254
Q: 8 0
V: 6 0
RxQueue: 136 0
TxQueue: 34 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 31 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 154 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 6.4000 0.0000
L: 40 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 834244
OHFErr: 0 3
RS: 229837160 3424251
RSCorr: 113 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 229042 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 2289805 0
RSCorr: 3 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 1813066 0
rtx_c: 643 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 64991 0
errFreeBits: 1009654230 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 459767709 0
Data Cells: 8860303 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 168
SES: 0 0
UAS: 106 106
AS: 3679

Bearer 0
INP: 51.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 4.42
OR: 0.01 57.81
AgR: 65489.21 15049.52

Bearer 1
INP: 4.50 0.00
INPRein: 4.50 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 79.68 0.01
AgR: 79.68 0.01

Bitswap: 1352/1352 2/2

Total time = 1 days 19 hours 9 min 53 sec
FEC: 3074405 991
CRC: 0 185
ES: 0 168
SES: 0 0
UAS: 106 106
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 53 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 30 0
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 19 hours 9 min 53 sec
FEC: 2004 164
CRC: 0 40
ES: 0 36
SES: 0 0
UAS: 83 83
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 972475 355
CRC: 0 69
ES: 0 66
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 1 hours 1 min 19 sec
FEC: 113 0
CRC: 0 3
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0


New Stats:

Code: [Select]
# xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 26025 Kbps, Downstream rate = 85976 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.5 15.0
Attn(dB): 13.9 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 13.1 4.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 130 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 8 16
S: 0.0518 0.3781
L: 21468 5374
D: 16 1
I: 139 127
N: 139 254
Q: 16 0
V: 14 0
RxQueue: 60 0
TxQueue: 20 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 20 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 5.3333 0.0000
L: 48 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 424588
OHFErr: 0 2
RS: 129537552 644959
RSCorr: 73 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 104902 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 1258086 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 1814529 0
rtx_c: 1 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 0 0
minEFTR: 79982 0
errFreeBits: 2056083 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 259175229 0
Data Cells: 14623119 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 23 23
AS: 1686

Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 80614.82 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Bitswap: 327/327 0/0

Total time = 28 min 29 sec
FEC: 73 0
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 23 23
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 29 sec
FEC: 41 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 32 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 23 23
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 28 min 29 sec
FEC: 73 0
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 23 23
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC: 0 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 28 min 5 sec
FEC: 73 0
CRC: 0 2
ES: 0 2
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on August 30, 2018, 12:28:12 PM
It took less than 48 hours for me and I think another person here too. Maybe still too many errors?

48 hours definitely isn't the norm and I would advise anyone else to wait 11 days before increasing any cap to lower errors further.

The 1st time DLM takes negative action on a line (say applying interleaving) it may remove that action in 48 hours (return the line to fastpath in that case).

The next time DLM takes that action (interleaving) it would take longer to remove this as they use the "doubler" method.
Though in my experience it's double double as it jumps from 2 days to remove DLM actions to around 8 days (8-11 days in my experience).

If a line doesn't drop to retx low within a few days my advice would be don't increase the cap to lower errors but wait the full 11 days first.

Update:

It worked after 9 days !

Excellent news!
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: johnson on September 01, 2018, 05:53:06 AM
I can maybe be a control for high FEC errors. I am on my second go of capping to initially get from 4db to 3db target, having had 3db for ~6 months+ and losing it after a several prolonged noise problems, but no harm in seeing how long retx low would stick, if I ever get there. Initially capped too high and although single digit CRCs and LEFTRS had the line drop, so now with lower cap:

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 1181 Kbps, Downstream rate = 27612 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1181 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19496 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.3            6.7
Attn(dB):        34.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        9.3             10.4

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              163             31
M:              1               1
T:              0               54
R:              8               0
S:              0.0000          0.8477
L:              5179            302
D:              2               1
I:              172             32
N:              172             32
Q:              2               0
V:              1               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               824589
OHFErr:         0               206
RS:             2908285704              387708
RSCorr:         256547          0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            12073463                0
OHFErr:         1               0
RS:             72440405                0
RSCorr:         332             0
RSUnCorr:       1               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         94656525                0
rtx_c:          30624           0
rtx_uc:         1               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         3               0
minEFTR:        19495           0
errFreeBits:    57733410                0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2975636696              0
Data Cells:     665464915               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               154
SES:            0               0
UAS:            297             297
AS:             193984

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            11.48
OR:             0.01            22.28
AgR:            19675.60        1203.29

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        45340/51908             1/1

Total time = 2 days 6 hours 56 sec
FEC:            279081          0
CRC:            0               206
ES:             0               154
SES:            0               0
UAS:            297             297
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 56 sec
FEC:            2               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            1637            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 6 hours 56 sec
FEC:            46870           0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            84447           0
CRC:            0               161
ES:             0               120
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 days 5 hours 53 min 3 sec
FEC:            256547          0
CRC:            0               206
ES:             0               154
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
General
rtx_tx          94656525        0               
rtx_c            30624            0               
rtx_uc          1                0               
LEFTRS          3                0               
minEFTR          19495            0               
errFreeBits      57733410        0               
Bearer 0
RxQueue          130              0               
TxQueue          26              0               
G.INP Framing    18              0               
G.INP Lookback  26              0               
RRC Bits        0                24             
Interleave depth 2                1               
INP              54.00            0.00           
INPRein          1.00            0.00           
Delay            0                0               
Bearer 1
Interleave depth 1                0               
INP              2.50            0.00           
INPRein          2.50            0.00           
Delay            0                0               

Am I correct in assuming that my upstream CRCs will not count to the DLMs view of my downstream stability?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: johnson on September 10, 2018, 02:28:03 AM
About ready to throw in the towel, 11 days now and no resync:

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 1181 Kbps, Downstream rate = 26833 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 1181 Kbps, Downstream rate = 19496 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        9.6             6.7
Attn(dB):        34.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        9.3             10.4

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              163             31
M:              1               1
T:              0               54
R:              8               0
S:              0.0000          0.8477
L:              5179            302
D:              2               1
I:              172             32
N:              172             32
Q:              2               0
V:              1               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               275289
OHFErr:         17              563
RS:             1499631660              4089321
RSCorr:         2335431         0
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            59715735                0
OHFErr:         2               0
RS:             358294039               0
RSCorr:         1657            0
RSUnCorr:       2               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         94770499                0
rtx_c:          130382          0
rtx_uc:         99              0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         36              0
minEFTR:        19495           0
errFreeBits:    285010918               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1600911433              0
Data Cells:     3390935407              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             7               437
SES:            0               0
UAS:            297             297
AS:             959452

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            11.48
OR:             0.01            22.28
AgR:            19675.60        1203.29

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        222371/254367           1/1

Total time = 11 days 2 hours 38 min 44 sec
FEC:            2357965         0
CRC:            17              563
ES:             7               437
SES:            0               0
UAS:            297             297
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 44 sec
FEC:            1625            0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            68              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 38 min 44 sec
FEC:            17980           0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            284088          0
CRC:            4               14
ES:             1               13
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 11 days 2 hours 30 min 51 sec
FEC:            2335431         0
CRC:            17              563
ES:             7               437
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
 

Code: [Select]
Downstream Upstream
General
rtx_tx          94770532        0               
rtx_c            130415          0               
rtx_uc          99              0               
LEFTRS          36              0               
minEFTR          19495            0               
errFreeBits      285037647        0               
Bearer 0
RxQueue          130              0               
TxQueue          26              0               
G.INP Framing    18              0               
G.INP Lookback  26              0               
RRC Bits        0                24             
Interleave depth 2                1               
INP              54.00            0.00           
INPRein          1.00            0.00           
Delay            0                0               
Bearer 1
Interleave depth 1                0               
INP              2.50            0.00           
INPRein          2.50            0.00           
Delay            0                0               

So 7 ES after 11 days seem the best I can hope for, so I either FECs matter or the 99 rtx_uc & 36 LEFTRS are too high still.

Hmm.. cant hurt to leave it a few more days I guess.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: twinkletoes on September 13, 2018, 01:43:36 PM
ReTX Low and G.INP on DS and US :) Let's see how long it lasts...

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 30256 Kbps, Downstream rate = 77213 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 14999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 60000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.5            17.0
Attn(dB):        15.6            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.0            6.8

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              178             211
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              10              16
S:              0.0950          0.4489
L:              15922           4063
D:              16              4
I:              189             228
N:              189             228
Q:              16              4
V:              2               1
RxQueue:                33              27
TxQueue:                11              9
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         11              9
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           122             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              8.0000          16.0000
L:              32              16
D:              1               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             370067744               1273091
RSCorr:         338             184
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            549105          551224
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             4392840         2204896
RSCorr:         1               2
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         26771           54
rtx_c:          48              236
rtx_uc:         0               13964

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               5
minEFTR:        59987           14992
errFreeBits:    8070287         9905964

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1017684008              0
Data Cells:     2011607         0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
AS:             8821

                        Bearer 0
INP:            48.00           46.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            60083.56        15052.70

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.00            4.00
INPRein:        2.00            4.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             63.75           31.87
AgR:            63.75   31.87

Bitswap:        503/503         0/0

Total time = 2 hours 27 min 1 sec
FEC:            338             184
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 1 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 2 hours 27 min 1 sec
FEC:            338             184
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 hours 26 min 59 sec
FEC:            338             184
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Steve
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on September 13, 2018, 05:22:34 PM
Any reason you have both upstream/downstream heavily capped if both are already on the optimum profile?

With Retx High I had 1 single LEFTERS per day (caused by a uvb bulb/ballast for my reptile light turning on at 7:59am everyday, so I discount this usually and say 0).

Since going Retx Low this increased to about 100 per day. In the last couple weeks I've been getting nearer 400-500 LEFTERS per day and the line is holding great at 3dB retx Low.

Seems it might need a kick (the cap) you get the line down to ReTx Low for many, but it holds there pretty good.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on September 13, 2018, 09:14:14 PM
@ jOhn

Shall I applied the cap to 64999 19999 from 78044 19999 eg: adsl configure --maxDataRate 64999 19999 100000 because I want my line back to 79999 19999 with snr 3dB with retx low. (will it work if I applied the cap to force DLM to get target 3dB snr?)

Here is my latest stats:

Code: [Select]
adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 28054 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78605 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 78044 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.4             15.8
Attn(dB):        12.0            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5            1.3

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              243             237
M:              1               1
T:              0               42
R:              10              16
S:              0.0996          0.3781
L:              20411           5374
D:              8               1
I:              254             127
N:              254             254
Q:              8               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                63              0
TxQueue:                21              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         21              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           186             -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              5.3333          0.0000
L:              48              0
D:              3               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               1625482
OHFErr:         0               1677
RS:             2436168552              3278715
RSCorr:         45578           11088
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            117366038               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             1408391720              0
RSCorr:         2027            0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         140060          0
rtx_c:          10542           0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         29              0
minEFTR:        78041           0
errFreeBits:    2283327245              0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3766740091              0
Data Cells:     1570918703              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             10              1482
SES:            10              0
UAS:            36              26
AS:             1885500

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           0.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            3.98
OR:             0.01            64.22
AgR:            78124.49        20063.54

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.00            0.00
INPRein:        4.00            0.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             95.62           0.01
AgR:            95.62   0.01

Bitswap:        1264/1264               271/271

Total time = 23 days 9 hours 54 min 9 sec
FEC:            208130          11962
CRC:            5925            1831
ES:             10              1482
SES:            10              0
UAS:            36              26
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            6               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 9 sec
FEC:            9               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            34              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 9 hours 54 min 9 sec
FEC:            524             95
CRC:            0               19
ES:             0               18
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            1695            380
CRC:            0               57
ES:             0               51
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 21 days 19 hours 44 min 59 sec
FEC:            45578           11088
CRC:            0               1677
ES:             0               1353
SES:            0               0

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: j0hn on September 14, 2018, 12:27:02 AM
You're already on retx low.
DLM may be programmed to not lower the SNRM if you are that close to 80Mb.

If it lowers the SNRM target to 5dB for you it would go to retx high and your throughput would be even less than it is now.

If you really want to try "nudge" DLM then try a 69999 19999 cap.
I don't know if it will work but you never know.

As you have the line capped if DLM does resync the line to lower the target SNRM then you won't see the sync increase.
You should see the max attainable going up though.

IF it does lower your SNRM target to 5dB it will almost certainly put the line on ReTx High.
Post here if you see any changes. It can take 8-11 days if it does actually work.

Don't worry about it if it doesn't work max as you already have a very high sync compared to many other members. You're only a tiny bit under full sync but it doesn't hurt to try  :)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: dee.jay on September 14, 2018, 08:08:36 AM
Yeah, even though 78000+ is a great rate, knowing I had 3dB to play with, I'd want to try and bump it to 79999 as well :D
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on September 14, 2018, 10:46:38 AM
Thanks @ jOhn but I think it best to leave it alone. Too risky for high retx and lower ip profile, don't want that.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: twinkletoes on September 14, 2018, 10:08:57 PM
Any reason you have both upstream/downstream heavily capped if both are already on the optimum profile?

The reason for that was to try and keep FEC's low, but then my 8800AXL V1 went funny and refused to give out IP addresses. But after a reboot, all is well.

Here's 24hr stats with no cap applied, FEC's are not too bad...

Code: [Select]
xdslctl info --stats
xdslctl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 28397 Kbps, Downstream rate = 75184 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 74091 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        6.3             11.8
Attn(dB):        15.5            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        13.0            6.8

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              243             97
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              10              8
S:              0.1049          0.1554
L:              19377           5457
D:              8               8
I:              254             106
N:              254             106
Q:              8               8
V:              0               2
RxQueue:                60              39
TxQueue:                20              13
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         20              13
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              6.4000          16.0000
L:              40              16
D:              3               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             3349626040              1780326
RSCorr:         5547            17390
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            5488498         267811
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             54884980                567928
RSCorr:         169             131
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         27543           731
rtx_c:          604             1090
rtx_uc:         0               23826

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         2               17
minEFTR:        74094           20003
errFreeBits:    99619504                43779315

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3971142867              0
Data Cells:     82874626                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
AS:             88173

                        Bearer 0
INP:            49.00           47.00
INPRein:        0.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            74166.78        20102.08

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            4.00
INPRein:        4.50            4.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             79.68           31.87
AgR:            79.68   31.87

Bitswap:        5069/5069               519/519

Total time = 1 days 29 min 33 sec
FEC:            5547            17390
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 33 sec
FEC:            41              11
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            12              28
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 29 min 33 sec
FEC:            53              39
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            5494            17351
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 1 days 29 min 31 sec
FEC:            5547            17390
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Steve
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: michty_me on January 29, 2019, 10:07:11 AM
Morning everyone,

I'm looking to do this to my line to see if I can get it to switch to Retx low.
Would a 60Mbps cap be sufficient on a line synching at 70.5Mbps or would you cap a little lower?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: michty_me on February 09, 2019, 06:41:37 PM
I limited the line to 50mbps and Retx low was in place on day 3.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 26, 2019, 12:35:25 PM
Hi,


Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 8299 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59172 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8299 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59419 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.4 6.3
Attn(dB): 23.3 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.1 4.6
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 244 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 10 16
S: 0.1308 0.9112
L: 15601 2230
D: 4 1
I: 255 127
N: 255 254
Q: 4 0
V: 3 0
RxQueue: 135 0
TxQueue: 27 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 27 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 301435
OHFErr: 593 357
RS: 3972348140 1113632
RSCorr: 54986662 4290
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 16891330 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 135130147 0
RSCorr: 2613 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0


Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 7553524 0
rtx_c: 355366 0
rtx_uc: 217876 0


G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 206 0
minEFTR: 59423 0
errFreeBits: 560662209 0


Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 375510518 0
Data Cells: 830646517 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0


Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0


ES: 72 275
SES: 42 7
UAS: 426 393
AS: 271320


Bearer 0
INP: 55.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 9.60
OR: 0.01 26.65
AgR: 59723.48 8325.58


Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01


Bitswap: 171210/175429 1017/1028


Total time = 1 days 58 min 22 sec
FEC: 81082363 4522
CRC: 2164 468
ES: 72 275
SES: 42 7
UAS: 426 393
LOS: 2 0
LOF: 6 0
LOM: 14 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 22 sec
FEC: 49530 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 29206 2
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 58 min 22 sec
FEC: 101419 7
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 29896047 3729
CRC: 24 118
ES: 8 60
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 3 days 3 hours 21 min 59 sec
FEC: 54986662 4290
CRC: 593 357
ES: 26 223
SES: 8 4
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 1 0
 



Not sure if I will see any benefit from doing this - but hoping even though I'm not at 3dB I can increase the BRAS profile by capping the sync, all the same?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: michty_me on December 26, 2019, 02:48:31 PM
Hi,


Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 8299 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59172 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8299 Kbps, Downstream rate = 59419 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 4.4 6.3
Attn(dB): 23.3 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.1 4.6
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 244 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 10 16
S: 0.1308 0.9112
L: 15601 2230
D: 4 1
I: 255 127
N: 255 254
Q: 4 0
V: 3 0
RxQueue: 135 0
TxQueue: 27 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 27 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 122 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 8.0000 0.0000
L: 32 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 301435
OHFErr: 593 357
RS: 3972348140 1113632
RSCorr: 54986662 4290
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 16891330 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 135130147 0
RSCorr: 2613 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0


Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 7553524 0
rtx_c: 355366 0
rtx_uc: 217876 0


G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 206 0
minEFTR: 59423 0
errFreeBits: 560662209 0


Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 375510518 0
Data Cells: 830646517 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0


Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0


ES: 72 275
SES: 42 7
UAS: 426 393
AS: 271320


Bearer 0
INP: 55.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 9.60
OR: 0.01 26.65
AgR: 59723.48 8325.58


Bearer 1
INP: 2.00 0.00
INPRein: 2.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 63.75 0.01
AgR: 63.75 0.01


Bitswap: 171210/175429 1017/1028


Total time = 1 days 58 min 22 sec
FEC: 81082363 4522
CRC: 2164 468
ES: 72 275
SES: 42 7
UAS: 426 393
LOS: 2 0
LOF: 6 0
LOM: 14 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 13 min 22 sec
FEC: 49530 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 29206 2
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 58 min 22 sec
FEC: 101419 7
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 29896047 3729
CRC: 24 118
ES: 8 60
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 3 days 3 hours 21 min 59 sec
FEC: 54986662 4290
CRC: 593 357
ES: 26 223
SES: 8 4
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 1 0
 



Not sure if I will see any benefit from doing this - but hoping even though I'm not at 3dB I can increase the BRAS profile by capping the sync, all the same?

I would say you are already at your maximum speed. It doesn't look capped.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 26, 2019, 03:09:23 PM
I would say you are already at your maximum speed. It doesn't look capped.

I didn't say my speed was capped, I meant putting a cap on myself and dropping the speed might mean I can go down to retx low and then effectively end up with a higher speed because the BRAS profile will be higher?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on December 26, 2019, 06:58:00 PM
Yes, this has worked for me in the past.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 26, 2019, 07:25:26 PM
Does anyone have a recommendation for what I should cap my sync speed to, based on my stats posted above?

Can I do it on the HG612?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on December 26, 2019, 08:09:14 PM
use dslstats: config, advanced, to send a custom command. This:


adsl configure --maxDataRate 50000 20000 100000
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: michty_me on December 26, 2019, 08:15:33 PM
I didn't say my speed was capped, I meant putting a cap on myself and dropping the speed might mean I can go down to retx low and then effectively end up with a higher speed because the BRAS profile will be higher?
Apologies, misinterpreted what you meant. I blame the Christmas fuzz.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 26, 2019, 10:20:08 PM
Will choosing "When DSL connection is down" ensure the command gets run if the modem gets rebooted?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on December 26, 2019, 10:27:26 PM
I imagine if you cap it the first thing it'll do is change you to a 3dB target, and then once you're sure its done that you'll cap it again to get it onto ReTx Low..that was how I got to 3dB retx low in my old house.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 26, 2019, 10:42:33 PM
Apologies, misinterpreted what you meant. I blame the Christmas fuzz.

Do not worry.

I imagine if you cap it the first thing it'll do is change you to a 3dB target, and then once you're sure its done that you'll cap it again to get it onto ReTx Low..that was how I got to 3dB retx low in my old house.

Will I see the maximum go up even if the SNRM doesn't drop, as I assume the cap will remain in place even if the target SNRM drops?

The VMG1312 syncs I think around 3000Kbps faster, so I might be able to get to around 60Mbps throughput with that modem if I am lucky.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: bkehoe on December 27, 2019, 10:04:52 AM
Yeah the maximum will go up after the target SNR is changed and the modem resyncs. Cap will stay in place until you reboot the router.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tommy45 on December 27, 2019, 06:57:24 PM
My circuit is still underperforming on downstream throughput thanks to a incorrectly configured Bras IP profile (which a have no visibility of, ) btw tester will no longer show IP profile , always times out or gives so error, and the other method returns a BT refused to return a result , My circuit had been put on a RETX high profile, but DLM later removed that and reverted it back to Low, but the IP profile seems to be stuck as the lower percentile , Zen have calculated the IP profile from the cvlan rate, and had that manually set to 77.35mbps but throughput is still just under 72mbps
Code: [Select]
xdslcmd info --stats
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 0
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 26845 Kbps, Downstream rate = 81736 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 3.4 15.1
Attn(dB): 13.7 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.4 4.1
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 26
B: 130 237
M: 1 1
T: 0 42
R: 8 16
S: 0.0518 0.3781
L: 21468 5374
D: 16 1
I: 139 127
N: 139 254
Q: 16 0
V: 14 0
RxQueue: 60 0
TxQueue: 20 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 20 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 186 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 5.3333 0.0000
L: 48 0
D: 3 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 811865
OHFErr: 0 513
RS: 4282578016 2240133
RSCorr: 1638355 4687
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 86892700 0
OHFErr: 0 0
RS: 1042711658 0
RSCorr: 0 0
RSUnCorr: 0 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 5260 0
rtx_c: 3360 0
rtx_uc: 0 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 19 0
minEFTR: 79999 0
errFreeBits: 1703085472 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 4270174176 0
Data Cells: 3512346556 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 0 485
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
AS: 1395732

Bearer 0
INP: 48.00 0.00
INPRein: 0.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 3.98
OR: 0.01 64.22
AgR: 80614.82 20063.54

Bearer 1
INP: 4.00 0.00
INPRein: 4.00 0.00
delay: 3 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 95.62 0.01
AgR: 95.62 0.01

Bitswap: 360320/360320 78/78

Total time = 1 days 3 hours 42 min 36 sec
FEC: 1638355 4687
CRC: 0 513
ES: 0 485
SES: 0 0
UAS: 24 24
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 12 min 36 sec
FEC: 751 2
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 953 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 3 hours 42 min 36 sec
FEC: 13927 42
CRC: 0 4
ES: 0 4
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 83963 192
CRC: 0 27
ES: 0 27
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 16 days 3 hours 42 min 11 sec
FEC: 1638355 4687
CRC: 0 513
ES: 0 485
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
#


Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on January 22, 2020, 03:45:04 PM
So I have been connected for 12 days and no resync.

Code: [Select]
xdslcmd: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 8399 Kbps, Downstream rate = 55888 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 6999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 39999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State: L0
Mode: VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a
TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis: U:ON /D:ON
Line Status: No Defect
Training Status: Showtime
Down Up
SNR (dB): 11.2 8.8
Attn(dB): 23.0 0.0
Pwr(dBm): 12.1 4.4
VDSL2 framing
Bearer 0
MSGc: -6 122
B: 162 206
M: 1 1
T: 0 18
R: 8 16
S: 0.1295 0.9392
L: 10564 1908
D: 4 1
I: 171 112
N: 171 224
Q: 4 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 135 0
TxQueue: 27 0
G.INP Framing: 18 0
G.INP lookback: 27 0
RRC bits: 0 24
Bearer 1
MSGc: 90 -6
B: 0 0
M: 2 0
T: 2 0
R: 16 0
S: 10.6667 0.0000
L: 24 0
D: 1 0
I: 32 0
N: 32 0
Q: 0 0
V: 0 0
RxQueue: 0 0
TxQueue: 0 0
G.INP Framing: 0 0
G.INP lookback: 0 0
RRC bits: 0 0
Counters
Bearer 0
OHF: 0 141220
OHFErr: 557 291
RS: 4078423076 567103
RSCorr: 1819438 3669
RSUnCorr: 0 0
Bearer 1
OHF: 69084762 0
OHFErr: 1 0
RS: 414508203 0
RSCorr: 657 0
RSUnCorr: 1 0

Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx: 8174205 0
rtx_c: 813601 0
rtx_uc: 653806 0

G.INP Counters
LEFTRS: 367 0
minEFTR: 40000 0
errFreeBits: 1422206680 0

Bearer 0
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 1607819251 0
Data Cells: 3868945668 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

Bearer 1
HEC: 0 0
OCD: 0 0
LCD: 0 0
Total Cells: 0 0
Data Cells: 0 0
Drop Cells: 0
Bit Errors: 0 0

ES: 214 947
SES: 120 22
UAS: 1587 1523
AS: 1109683

Bearer 0
INP: 55.00 0.00
INPRein: 1.00 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 0.00 16.97
OR: 0.01 60.33
AgR: 40122.38 7059.28

Bearer 1
INP: 2.50 0.00
INPRein: 2.50 0.00
delay: 0 0
PER: 16.06 0.01
OR: 47.81 0.01
AgR: 47.81 0.01

Bitswap: 766035/783320 549/554

Total time = 1 days 4 hours 11 min 0 sec
FEC: 144283297 36953
CRC: 6247 1458
ES: 214 947
SES: 120 22
UAS: 1587 1523
LOS: 6 0
LOF: 10 0
LOM: 17 0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 0 sec
FEC: 176 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC: 626 0
CRC: 0 0
ES: 0 0
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Latest 1 day time = 4 hours 11 min 0 sec
FEC: 22966 0
CRC: 0 1
ES: 0 1
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC: 222782 51
CRC: 0 17
ES: 0 14
SES: 0 0
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0
Since Link time = 12 days 20 hours 14 min 43 sec
FEC: 1819438 3669
CRC: 557 291
ES: 17 220
SES: 11 2
UAS: 0 0
LOS: 0 0
LOF: 0 0
LOM: 0 0

Is a further cap needed?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on January 22, 2020, 04:42:04 PM
No that is plenty, just wait.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: mrk26 on January 23, 2020, 05:41:44 PM
Well, it looks like you getting a lot of FEC errors, which may be considered by DLM that is why may not taking positive action, especially that you run for 12 days now.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on January 26, 2020, 12:15:01 AM
Here is my FTTC stats between 2014 and 2020 (80/20 with Plusnet)

Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on January 26, 2020, 11:10:48 AM
Yeah maybe set 40000 then. 12+ days is too long. Mine takes 4 days every time to get INPRein=0 (lots of recent ISP changes and DLM resets)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on January 27, 2020, 10:19:09 AM
Yeah maybe set 40000 then. 12+ days is too long. Mine takes 4 days every time to get INPRein=0 (lots of recent ISP changes and DLM resets)

Was this referring to me?

I'm already at 40,000.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on February 16, 2020, 04:19:38 PM
Unfortunately still no change on my line, I obviously have not capped the line enough.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: chuffer on September 07, 2020, 10:56:40 AM
For any of you here who might have been following the later posts re high sync and low download speed.

It has been moved here.

https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25098.15.html
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 20, 2020, 11:40:33 AM
I've given this another go.

Capped line to 35000Kbps, before I think the issue was I was still clocking up a fairly high number of FECs which I think prevents DLM from taking positive action?

Does anyone have ideas about what level they would need to get down to, to ensure DLM takes the action and puts me on retransmission low?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 20, 2020, 01:13:50 PM
I've given this another go.

Capped line to 35000Kbps, before I think the issue was I was still clocking up a fairly high number of FECs which I think prevents DLM from taking positive action?

Does anyone have ideas about what level they would need to get down to, to ensure DLM takes the action and puts me on retransmission low?

You may find my experiencies as related in this recent post relevant:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,25214.msg423411.html#msg423411

I have managed to retain DS G.Inp low re-tx profile to date with an average FEC error/hr daily rate of approx 12000 as reported by DSLStats which I run 24/7, odd days are much higher/lower and my modem DS 40 Mbps clamp is still applied.

Quote
Yeah maybe set 40000 then. 12+ days is too long. Mine takes 4 days every time to get INPRein=0 (lots of recent ISP changes and DLM resets)

My line took 14 days with a fairly severe DS modem clamp applied before DLM action intervened and changed to re-tx low profile. 
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 20, 2020, 01:28:45 PM
Thanks @tiffy, with 35000 applied I am running just under 10,000 FECs per hour (only been applied for 12 hours or so).

We will see if this has any impact.

Am I right in saying if I get re-tx low, I will not need to keep the FECs low as DLM only applies positive action, not negative in regards to FECs?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 20, 2020, 02:31:30 PM
Quote
Am I right in saying if I get re-tx low, I will not need to keep the FECs low as DLM only applies positive action, not negative in regards to FECs?

Have not seen a definitive forum answer to that question, lots of different opinions, my interpretation is that DLM is probably more tolerant to higher FEC rates when re-tx low profile has been achieved with respect to consequential re-application of re-tx high profile.

I still do my best to maintain the lowest possible DS FEC rates and as outlined in the previously referenced thread have kept a DS 40 Mbps modem clamp applied even though by provisioned service is only 40/10 and my line will only ever be capable of marginally over 40 Mbps DS synch. under any provision, appears to help, can't really explain why.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 20, 2020, 04:04:04 PM
Thanks again @tiffy, I will run the 35000 cap for as long as possible as it takes for DLM to act.

Current stats:

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 65577 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        18.7            6.1
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               854979
OHFErr:         0               63
RS:             3508958752              226632
RSCorr:         153502          285
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            3651424         0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             21908171                0
RSCorr:         7               0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13324416                0
rtx_c:          1568            0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    31312492                0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3947631486              0
Data Cells:     75927408                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               46
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             58661

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        35302/36981             67/67

Total time = 16 hours 21 min 9 sec
FEC:            153502          285
CRC:            0               63
ES:             0               46
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 6 min 9 sec
FEC:            123             7
CRC:            0               5
ES:             0               4
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            245             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 16 hours 21 min 9 sec
FEC:            153502          285
CRC:            0               63
ES:             0               46
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 16 hours 17 min 41 sec
FEC:            153502          285
CRC:            0               63
ES:             0               46
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

I have - somewhat rarely - vectoring on my line, so will be interesting to see if this makes any difference to the results.

I don't know if my line is just very noisy but without a cap I get millions and millions of FECs, never seemed to cause any harm to the usage of the connection (as they are corrected) but I wonder if this is why I have always been stuck on re-tx high. At one stage I was able to achieve 10Mb up on the upstream (when I first had the circuit provisioned, I had 55/10 and that is exactly what I got) but over time my upstream seems to have dropped. But it can't be crosstalk as I believed vectoring would stop that from having an impact.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 20, 2020, 05:42:38 PM
Quote
I have - somewhat rarely - vectoring on my line, so will be interesting to see if this makes any difference to the results.
Indeed, one of the very few.
My perhaps simplistic understanding of vectoring technology is that it should certainly help if not completely eliminate the effects of crosstalk on the line from FTTC cabinet to user.
Why you DS synch has dropped to 35,000 Kbps with 55/10 provision and vectoring in service, don't know.
Very round figure, could your line be banded ?

Quote
FECs, never seemed to cause any harm to the usage of the connection (as they are corrected)
This was my initial thinking also, errors that the technology has pre-corrected, however, the FEC error rate does seem to be at least one of the factors which DLM considers with respect to G.Inp re-tx profile control, as previously stated, how much this effects low to high re-tx migration via DLM is not clear.
However, quite a few forum patrons have positively established that once on DS re-tx high profile, reducing the FEC error rate by modem DS synch speed clamping will eventually produce DLM action to change re-tx profile to low.

Of course, the modem DS speed clamp will also have the effect of reducing other factors such as G.Inp LEFTRS and  rtx_uc rates which some believe are in the DLM control equasion as well ?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 20, 2020, 06:12:27 PM
Sorry @tiffy, I have merged two issues - and have confused you and me in the process!

What I mean is: I have purposefully capped my line to 35Mb on the downstream, in order to try and achieve Re-TX low as you have advised above. That is what you see in the stats I posted.

My other - separate - issue is that over time I have seen that my upstream sync has reduced. Initially I was able to achieve sync of over 10Mb and that has dropped to around 8 over the last year or two. This is not due to my capping of the line. When I originally went live back in 2015, I was able to achieve the full 55/10 and that was what I was provisioned on. I was later "uncapped" and I at one stage achieved 10.5Mb on the upstream.

Sorry for any confusion.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 20, 2020, 07:42:56 PM
Quote
What I mean is: I have purposefully capped my line to 35Mb on the downstream, in order to try and achieve Re-TX low as you have advised above. That is what you see in the stats I posted.

Of course, had read and registered that earlier, apologies, senior moment on my part !

Not sure on vectoring technology, is it aplicable to both DS and US or is that a silly question ?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 20, 2020, 11:30:32 PM
Of course, had read and registered that earlier, apologies, senior moment on my part !

Not sure on vectoring technology, is it aplicable to both DS and US or is that a silly question ?

Seems to work on both the upstream and the downstream.

I am convinced it's something to do with the power on the upstream but I've been told before it's not that.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 21, 2020, 11:14:24 AM
Hi again @tiffy,

If the line resyncs with Re-Tx low and I remove the cap, won't DLM just reapply Re-Tx high when the FEC count increases again or have I misunderstood how it works?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 21, 2020, 11:34:06 AM
Hi again @tiffy,

If the line resyncs with Re-Tx low and I remove the cap, won't DLM just reapply Re-Tx high when the FEC count increases again or have I misunderstood how it works?

From my personal experience no, certainly not immediatly, however, I have had high re-tx re-applied by DLM at a later date when my line FEC error rate (and whatever else DLM monitors with respect to re-tx profile) increases again.

As to the time scale for re-tx profile changing either way, lots of different opinions on that but not aware of any conclusive proof on this particular aspect of DLM logistics.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 21, 2020, 02:17:51 PM
Hi again @tiffy, don't suppose I can do anything on the upstream to get the SNRM to drop there can I?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 21, 2020, 06:15:07 PM
Hi again @tiffy, don't suppose I can do anything on the upstream to get the SNRM to drop there can I?

Upstream is strictly 6dB.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 21, 2020, 06:32:58 PM
Upstream is strictly 6dB.

Ah, that's a shame. I remain bemused why my upstream has dropped over the last few years then :no:
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 21, 2020, 09:11:40 PM
Hi again @tiffy, don't suppose I can do anything on the upstream to get the SNRM to drop there can I?

Purely from long term observation and stats recording of my line and the 2 family VDSL FTTC lines I monitor, don't think there is much you can do to encourage DLM to increase your US synch speed provided there are not excessive error rates present.

Have never seen US BRAS IP profile indicate anything other than max contractual speed on the 3 lines I monitor.
Have seen US G.Inp very infrequently applied to all 3 lines, in all cases appeared to be as a result of substantial and prolonged increase of US ES rates which the US G.Inp application of course immediately mitigated resulting in US G.Inp removal again by DLM usually within 2 to 3 days.
In all cases, the US "noise " source had by that time abated and US G.Inp remained off.
If the US noise had continued I would imagine the cycle would have continued as US G.Inp is not applied by DLM by default.

No idea if there is a high/low US G.Inp profile as such as the US BRAS profile never seems to change from max contractual speed.

My line has always DS synch'ed at max rate achievable on the rather long (26.6 dB DS attenuation) line with a very low ES rate, in my case approx 5.40 Mbps on 40/10 provision.

Probably not directly relevant to your situation but you may find of interest.
I had a line issue in April which only effected my US synch speed, the rather long and detailed saga is here:
https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,24606.msg413899.html#msg413899

Does indicate how line noise can effect particular areas of the band spectrum and not others.
The issue was resolved no thanks to my ISP and thankfully has never returned to date.

Alex Atkin UK has already commented on DLM US SNRM philosophy.
   
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on November 21, 2020, 11:03:56 PM
I'm sure it doesn't necessarily carry across to different line lengths and technology, but when I was on ADSL2+ I used to be able to tweak downstream manually to 3dB and it was rock-solid stable as broadband wasn't nearly as popular back then.

However, if I tried to reduce the upstream SNRm from 6dB the line would drop all the time.  I think upstream inherently needs a wider margin for stability as its allowed a lot less power and being a smaller number of frequencies has less spare capacity at any given time.

I'm not really sure how SNRm is calculated, given every frequency has its own bitloading potential but I would not be surprised if upstream and downstream are simply not comparable in how much spare capacity is REALLY available.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 22, 2020, 07:54:18 PM
Going to use this thread to log any changes to my line.

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 64943 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        18.4            6.2
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            4.0

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               1065673
OHFErr:         0               128
RS:             1786314920              1537062
RSCorr:         323315          436
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            15266677                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             91599689                0
RSCorr:         61              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13330063                0
rtx_c:          6755            0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    130918139               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3620218692              0
Data Cells:     982636639               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               77
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             245263

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        156834/161847           366/368

Total time = 2 days 20 hours 11 min 11 sec
FEC:            323315          436
CRC:            0               128
ES:             0               77
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 11 min 11 sec
FEC:            30              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            39              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 20 hours 11 min 11 sec
FEC:            80242           31
CRC:            0               16
ES:             0               12
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            66349           100
CRC:            0               36
ES:             0               16
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 days 20 hours 7 min 43 sec
FEC:            323315          436
CRC:            0               128
ES:             0               77
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0

Line still capped, running just under 5000 FECs per hour.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 22, 2020, 07:56:18 PM
Thanks all for your comments, I've lived with the 8Mb upload for this long so looks like it will stay that way, just more curious as to why I've lost 2Mb since 2015. Oh well
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 22, 2020, 08:58:51 PM
Quote
Line still capped, running just under 5000 FECs per hour.

With that low level of DS FEC rate the desired effect should eventually come to pass, be patient, don't re-synch, let DLM run it's course.

From your latest stats, the other G.Inp factors which some believe may effect re-tx profile selection, G.Inp LEFTRS and rtx_uc certainly look healthy.

Sorry can't be of more help with the decreasing US synch speed situation, DLM can be a bit of a mistery!
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 22, 2020, 10:07:38 PM
Thanks @tiffy, I am leaving well alone! Thanks for all your help so far.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 23, 2020, 01:10:05 PM
I think I am right in saying that a few have seen DLM changes after four days of connection, we will see what happens tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 24, 2020, 09:13:24 AM
Still no changes yet!

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67156 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        19.6            6.2
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.8

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               1083561
OHFErr:         0               179
RS:             1235575344              3326012
RSCorr:         377652          2348
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            23632124                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             141792374               0
RSCorr:         99              0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13333530                0
rtx_c:          9948            0
rtx_uc:         0               0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    202655448               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    4074347029              0
Data Cells:     1294921677              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               116
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             379656

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        238667/246178           555/558

Total time = 4 days 9 hours 31 min 4 sec
FEC:            377652          2348
CRC:            0               179
ES:             0               116
SES:            0               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 1 min 4 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            52              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 9 hours 31 min 4 sec
FEC:            9200            5
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            32988           78
CRC:            0               47
ES:             0               35
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 4 days 9 hours 27 min 35 sec
FEC:            377652          2348
CRC:            0               179
ES:             0               116
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 25, 2020, 07:18:59 AM
5 days...

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66985 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        19.5            6.1
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               640964
OHFErr:         51              233
RS:             1700586880              3481063
RSCorr:         951350          2451
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            28585276                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             171511284               0
RSCorr:         114             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13340721                0
rtx_c:          12249           0
rtx_uc:         700             0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         1               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    245130458               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    839317433               0
Data Cells:     1506222361              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             1               155
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             459230

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        287864/297397           563/566

Total time = 5 days 7 hours 37 min 18 sec
FEC:            951350          2451
CRC:            51              233
ES:             1               155
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 18 sec
FEC:            21              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            162             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 7 hours 37 min 18 sec
FEC:            228040          0
CRC:            0               1
ES:             0               1
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            354858          108
CRC:            51              54
ES:             1               39
SES:            1               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 5 days 7 hours 33 min 49 sec
FEC:            951350          2451
CRC:            51              233
ES:             1               155
SES:            1               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 27, 2020, 11:04:37 PM
Nearly 8 days now...

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66172 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        19.2            6.3
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               95785
OHFErr:         57              308
RS:             2548188032              742685
RSCorr:         1612244         2570
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            42875081                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             257250117               0
RSCorr:         165             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13347599                0
rtx_c:          18388           0
rtx_uc:         1192            0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         2               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    367671513               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3403416683              0
Data Cells:     1849109222              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             3               211
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             688799

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        426908/442521           644/647

Total time = 7 days 23 hours 23 min 27 sec
FEC:            1612244         2570
CRC:            57              308
ES:             3               211
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 8 min 27 sec
FEC:            122             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            75              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 23 hours 23 min 27 sec
FEC:            30858           50
CRC:            5               36
ES:             1               25
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            128990          67
CRC:            0               37
ES:             0               29
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 7 days 23 hours 19 min 59 sec
FEC:            1612244         2570
CRC:            57              308
ES:             3               211
SES:            1               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: underzone on November 28, 2020, 09:51:30 PM
I don't think you will be getting retx low. Everyone else who has managed to force it (myself included), didn't have vectoring.
As you have vectoring, the DLM is likely more complex...  ???
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on November 28, 2020, 10:06:33 PM
I'll give it until 14 days and then if no change I'll give up. Thanks @underzone.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on November 29, 2020, 10:58:53 AM
Quote
I'll give it until 14 days and then if no change I'll give up.

"underzone" could well be correct, vectoring is unfortunately very rare across the OR Huawei estate (non existant on ECI DSLAM's), as such no one is quite sure of the logistical effect on DLM operation.

However, my line did take 14 days as reported earlier to revert to G.Inp re-tx low profile so wise to wait a bit longer.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 02, 2020, 09:57:14 AM
12 days and still no change, two more days and then I'm giving up :)

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 67183 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        19.4            6.4
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               1708902
OHFErr:         60              402
RS:             4092479960              3766487
RSCorr:         2087228         2720
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            66828389                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             400969961               0
RSCorr:         261             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13358142                0
rtx_c:          28087           0
rtx_uc:         1234            0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         3               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    573081240               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3530035895              0
Data Cells:     2983160716              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             4               269
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             1073615

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        665828/690995           1004/1013

Total time = 12 days 10 hours 17 min 3 sec
FEC:            2087228         2720
CRC:            60              402
ES:             4               269
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 2 min 3 sec
FEC:            17              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            105             0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 10 hours 17 min 3 sec
FEC:            137920          1
CRC:            0               2
ES:             0               2
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            80215           71
CRC:            0               47
ES:             0               31
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 12 days 10 hours 13 min 33 sec
FEC:            2087228         2720
CRC:            60              402
ES:             4               269
SES:            1               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on December 02, 2020, 03:44:32 PM
Quote
12 days and still no change, two more days and then I'm giving up

Yes, looks like you are either set to beat my 14 day record or it's not going to happen!
Could be an unknown vectoring factor as mentioned earlier, another one of the mysteries of DLM?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 04, 2020, 11:10:04 AM
I'm giving up :)

Obviously does not work with lines that have vectoring.

Code: [Select]
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 66172 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 8150 Kbps, Downstream rate = 35000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        18.6            6.5
Attn(dB):        23.3            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.1            3.9

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              26
B:              73              249
M:              1               1
T:              0               40
R:              6               4
S:              0.0000          0.9746
L:              9610            2085
D:              8               1
I:              80              127
N:              80              254
Q:              8               0
V:              5               0
RxQueue:                130             0
TxQueue:                26              0
G.INP Framing:          18              0
G.INP lookback:         26              0
RRC bits:               0               24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           90              -6
B:              0               0
M:              2               0
T:              2               0
R:              16              0
S:              10.6667         0.0000
L:              24              0
D:              1               0
I:              32              0
N:              32              0
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               952662
OHFErr:         60              432
RS:             1806189056              776777
RSCorr:         2927053         7695
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            77857120                0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             467142350               0
RSCorr:         320             0
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         13362816                0
rtx_c:          32669           0
rtx_uc:         1234            0

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         3               0
minEFTR:        34994           0
errFreeBits:    667657250               0

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    2568528983              0
Data Cells:     3589924177              0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             4               282
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
AS:             1250795

                        Bearer 0
INP:            54.00           0.00
INPRein:        1.00            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            9.78
OR:             0.01            26.16
AgR:            35418.64        8176.72

                        Bearer 1
INP:            2.50            0.00
INPRein:        2.50            0.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            16.06           0.01
OR:             47.81           0.01
AgR:            47.81   0.01

Bitswap:        773793/803526           1339/1350

Total time = 14 days 11 hours 30 min 3 sec
FEC:            2927053         7695
CRC:            60              432
ES:             4               282
SES:            1               0
UAS:            208             208
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 3 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            30              0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 11 hours 30 min 3 sec
FEC:            17636           4960
CRC:            0               21
ES:             0               5
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            286477          9
CRC:            0               6
ES:             0               5
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 14 days 11 hours 26 min 35 sec
FEC:            2927053         7695
CRC:            60              432
ES:             4               282
SES:            1               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
NTR: mipsCntAtNtr=0 ncoCntAtNtr=0
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tiffy on December 04, 2020, 01:25:24 PM
Quote
Obviously does not work with lines that have vectoring.

Indeed, in lieu of any available definitive information on the detailed working of DLM that's the most likely conclusion.

On the bright side, your line is one of the very, very few with FTTC vectoring applied which is now very unlikely to change with FTTP roll out, given the hypothetical choice of vectoring or G.Inp re-tx low profile I know which option I would choose, the minimal decrease of BRAS IP profile resulting from re-tx high profile is a small price to pay for a much reduced likelyhood of considerable loss of DS synch speed which is experienced by virtually all VDSL FTTC subscribers due to cross talk.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: burakkucat on December 04, 2020, 05:22:37 PM
Indeed, in lieu of any available definitive information on the detailed working of DLM that's the most likely conclusion.

Agreed.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: adslmax on December 06, 2020, 06:40:33 AM
I'm giving up :)

Obviously does not work with lines that have vectoring.

I thought Openreach don't have vectoring on FTTC?
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: tubaman on December 06, 2020, 09:14:12 AM
I thought Openreach don't have vectoring on FTTC?

There are a few cases of it in the wild, @GigabitEthernet's line being one of those. I don't think we know why they were chosen though.
 :)
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on December 06, 2020, 10:17:41 AM
It's a BDUK line with a lot of properties quite a long way from the cabinet, I assume it's there to try and reach the 30Mbps target as often as possible.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: Alex Atkin UK on December 06, 2020, 01:01:36 PM
There are a few cases of it in the wild, @GigabitEthernet's line being one of those. I don't think we know why they were chosen though.
 :)

Pretty sure its exclusive to BDUK funded cabinets.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on February 27, 2021, 03:19:29 PM
So I got my 92.64% IP profile back.

Switched to a BT Hub a few months ago and it's been sitting there quietly, usually being up for 14 days at a time. Just recently switched to the newer model and about a week later I'm back on the 92.64% IP profile.

I haven't capped the profile or anything - can't do that on a BT Hub - and I was never successful on any other modems in the past, so possible the BT Hub is just less error-prone on my line? I have vectoring if you will recall.
Title: Re: Openreach FTTC Target SNR 3dB reduced Bras IP Profile to 92.64%
Post by: GigabitEthernet on February 27, 2021, 03:35:12 PM
Hmm, apparently it's 92.64% for reTx high but I was definitely at about 88% before, not sure what's happened there?