Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Technology => Topic started by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 10:42:42 AM

Title: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 10:42:42 AM
Hello,

This might seem like a dumb question. My village is moving from a cabinet that is about 4Km away to a new local FTTC cabinet.

When this goes live we will be able to upgrade to VDSL2 (Infinity), but my question is:

Does the new cabinet also provide ADSL services, or will customers that do not choose to upgrade still be served by the exchange, and get the same speeds as they always had.

More simply, do FTTC cabinets only provide VDSL?

Regards

FollyDude
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: Black Sheep on June 25, 2018, 11:33:19 AM
Hello,

This might seem like a dumb question. My village is moving from a cabinet that is about 4Km away to a new local FTTC cabinet.

When this goes live we will be able to upgrade to VDSL2 (Infinity), but my question is:

Does the new cabinet also provide ADSL services, or will customers that do not choose to upgrade still be served by the exchange, and get the same speeds as they always had.

More simply, do FTTC cabinets only provide VDSL?

Regards

FollyDude

Yes ..... FTTC Cabs simply provide VDSL Broadband. The existing ADSL customers (Broadband from the Tel Exchange), will still be connected through the same new Cabinet, but will in laymans terms just be connected straight in and straight back out of the Cab again.

New VDSL customers are connected straight in, then we add additional wiring to connect the VDSL broadband before it goes straight back out of the Cab.

Hope this makes sense.  :)
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: johnson on June 25, 2018, 12:07:09 PM
Do you know how far away the new cabinet will be from you?

If its anything under a km its probably well worth the extra money upgrading to a FTTC connection compared to a 4km ADSL2+ service.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 01:11:09 PM
Thanks Black Sheep. Yes that makes sense.

If I had thought it through, ADSL is over ATM, and VDSL is over IP. I assume that FTTC cabinet is IP only?

Cheers

FollyDude
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 01:13:47 PM
Yes, most properties in the village will be under 1Km, a few will be up to 1.5Km, but they are only getting around 2Mbps now on ADSL. So I think they will still benefit.


FollyDude
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: johnson on June 25, 2018, 01:27:13 PM
If I had thought it through, ADSL is over ATM, and VDSL is over IP. I assume that FTTC cabinet is IP only?

ADSL can be PPPoA or PPPoE and FTTC is either PPPoE or IPoE here.

Its more that the line cards for the FTTC connection are in the cabinet, where as the ADSL ones are at the exchange.

Edit: stupidity
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: spring on June 25, 2018, 01:33:11 PM
If your modem can only do ADSL you don't have to change it to continue using ADSL, if that's the reason you asked. At least, ATM still worked until I replaced my ADSL-only modem with my current one, called an engineer and he changed it to PTM at the cab.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 01:39:17 PM
If your modem can only do ADSL you don't have to change it to continue using ADSL, if that's the reason you asked. At least, ATM still worked until I replaced my ADSL-only modem with my current one, called an engineer and he changed it to PTM at the cab.

No, the reason for asking, was to find out if existing ADSL customers would benefit at all from the cabinet if they don't upgrade, and the answer is they will not benefit.

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 01:41:12 PM
ADSL can be PPPoA or PPPoE and FTTC is either PPPoE or IPoE here.

Its more that the line cards for the FTTC connection are in the cabinet, where as the ADSL ones are at the exchange.

Edit: stupidity

Got it. Thanks

FollyDude
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: spring on June 25, 2018, 01:42:12 PM
Yes, they would because it would shorten the line. However practical benefit is a different story.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: ktz392837 on June 25, 2018, 01:46:39 PM
This might seem like a dumb question. My village is moving from a cabinet that is about 4Km away to a new local FTTC cabinet.  When this goes live we will be able to upgrade to VDSL2....
Remember if there is a limited number of FTTC ports compared to number of properties make sure you order quickly or you run the risk of still being stuck on ADSL if FTTC is filled up.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: johnson on June 25, 2018, 01:49:11 PM
Also, I have no idea how big your village is or how many homes your cabinet serves, but it sounds like it may be remote and serving quite a few. I live in a similar place and the original cabinet in the initial roll out filled up fast, then the larger one they installed filled up in under a year, so its probably wise to keep an eye on the checkers and order early.

Edit: damn it ktz392837, beat me to it
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 01:55:13 PM
Remember if there is a limited number of FTTC ports compared to number of properties make sure you order quickly or you run the risk of still being stuck on ADSL if FTTC is filled up.

Thanks.

There are about 44 properties in the village and there is a Huawei AIO cabinet installed.

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: johnson on June 25, 2018, 02:03:24 PM
Given:
https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm#fttc_cabinet_capacity

I guess with a single 32 port line card on an AIO there still could be unhappy people, but that assumes an unlikely uptake given 44 premises.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 02:14:51 PM
Given:
https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/fttc-cabinets.htm#fttc_cabinet_capacity

I guess with a single 32 port line card on an AIO there still could be unhappy people, but that assumes an unlikely uptake given 44 premises.

Would a single line card be the default for a new cabinet install? We should get a good take up, maybe more than 32. Dare I ask how long it takes to get a second line card?  :-[

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: johnson on June 25, 2018, 02:18:49 PM
I didn't mean to concern you, I have no knowledge of the default install, just going off 4x32 = 128 being the max for an AIO cab. I'm sure Black Sheep can offer some actual info.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 02:29:01 PM
No worries. We won't get to 128 thats for sure...

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: j0hn on June 25, 2018, 03:00:49 PM
The DSLAMs (FTTC cabinets) OpenReach use for FTTC can serve ADSL/2/2+.
They are simply fitted with VDSL2 only line cards.

They chose not to run ADSL from the cabinets for a number of reasons, partly the crosstalk the 2 different technologies would cause each other if they originated from the same location. Commercial reasons also. Allowing ADSL from the cabinet would reduce the number of VDSL2 ports for no extra income.
A big take up would also mean some areas would need 4 or 5 cabinets, rather than 1 or 2.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 25, 2018, 03:05:54 PM
The DSLAMs (FTTC cabinets) OpenReach use for FTTC can serve ADSL/2/2+.
They are simply fitted with VDSL2 only line cards.

They chose not to run ADSL from the cabinets for a number of reasons, partly the crosstalk the 2 different technologies would cause each other if they originated from the same location. Commercial reasons also. Allowing ADSL from the cabinet would reduce the number of VDSL2 ports for no extra income.
A big take up would also mean some areas would need 4 or 5 cabinets, rather than 1 or 2.

Thanks for the info.

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: Black Sheep on June 25, 2018, 04:59:35 PM
I didn't mean to concern you, I have no knowledge of the default install, just going off 4x32 = 128 being the max for an AIO cab. I'm sure Black Sheep can offer some actual info.

I can't say for absolute certainty, as this remit falls in the planners laps not field engineers ..... but from day-to-day personal experience, I would say that most Cabs have 96 ports initially available on first install.  :)
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: renluop on June 25, 2018, 05:33:46 PM
Also, I have no idea how big your village is or how many homes your cabinet serves, but it sounds like it may be remote and serving quite a few. I live in a similar place and the original cabinet in the initial roll out filled up fast, then the larger one they installed filled up in under a year, so its probably wise to keep an eye on the checkers and order early.

Edit: damn it ktz392837, beat me to it
Also are you sure that the cab doesn't serve more than those 44 dwellings, that would benefit from fibre?
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: S.Stephenson on June 25, 2018, 09:21:09 PM
Also are you sure that the cab doesn't serve more than those 44 dwellings, that would benefit from fibre?

Sounds an awful lot like a village near me called Wragby they will be on cabinet 34 on the Hemsworth exchange you can see how few properties that passes.

That one serves very few properties just the small village and a few outlying farms which are still out of range of VDSL.

It should go live pretty soon, Iím hoping it reduces crosstalk on cabinet 19.

Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 26, 2018, 09:51:53 AM
Also are you sure that the cab doesn't serve more than those 44 dwellings, that would benefit from fibre?

Yes, absolutely sure. This was a community funded program, serving a very small village.

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: Weaver on June 26, 2018, 10:58:23 AM
@Follydude

Regarding something you wrote a while back
>If I had thought it through, ADSL is over ATM, and VDSL is over IP. I assume that FTTC cabinet is IP only?

As you know IP is used across the entire internet. But what you wrote is mixing different communication layers up. When you are using FTCC/VDSL2, over the copper wire from your house to the cab, instead of ATM, which is gone, consigned to history, you use something called PTM. IP is not relevant. So the contrast you were looking for is between ATM and PTM. On the fibre optic link from the cab upstream to the guts of BT, ethernet is used.
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 26, 2018, 01:07:34 PM
@Follydude

Regarding something you wrote a while back
>If I had thought it through, ADSL is over ATM, and VDSL is over IP. I assume that FTTC cabinet is IP only?

As you know IP is used across the entire internet. But what you wrote is mixing different communication layers up. When you are using FTCC/VDSL2, over the copper wire from your house to the cab, instead of ATM, which is gone, consigned to history, you use something called PTM. IP is not relevant. So the contrast you were looking for is between ATM and PTM. On the fibre optic link from the cab upstream to the guts of BT, ethernet is used.

Thanks for the correction, I engaged my mouth before my brain was in gear.  :)

The real answer to my original question is that the line cards in the cabinet are VDSL.

F
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: spring on June 26, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
When I got a cab, the copper line terminated at the cab ran me on ADSL2+ mode [adsl-only modem]: but, j0hn mentioned in your case that they don't allow ADSL in the cab to prevent crosstalk, and more income.

Line cards are for PTM [required for VDSL].
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: Weaver on June 26, 2018, 02:18:50 PM
@follydude - hope that was useful and made some sense but apologies if you knew all that already

Oh and by the way, if I havenít said so already, Welcome!
Title: Re: ADSL on a FTTC cabinet
Post by: follydude on June 26, 2018, 04:00:57 PM
Thanks!

I have had so much more help and knowledeable comments here than in a year on the BT forum.... I wish I had found this forum a long time ago.

F