Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: sheddyian on June 08, 2018, 07:00:33 PM
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Hello from (fairly) sunny Wales!
My phone and broadband (with Plusnet) were enabled a few weeks ago, and as expected the speed is poor. That said, it's been reliable and so far hasn't disconnected or given me problems.
An Openreach engineer had to come along, the line wasn't connected at the cabinet (he said), and I took the opportunity to get him to move the phone socket to the living room (it was in the kitchen). So I know it's a good connection and there's no rogue extensions anywhere, just the one new NTE5C socket.
My stats :
5 - Mode ADSL
6 - Uptime: 0 days 00:17:58
UP/DOWN
7 - Data rate: 448/1920
8 - Maximum data rate: 616/2080
9 - Noise margin: 10.0/7.2
10 - Line attenuation: 31.5/57.5
I've fitted a MK4 filter faceplate, and fiddled about with some different wires, but these stats are pretty stable and I couldn't seem to get any improvement. I'm just a long way from the exchange. :(
There's a useful campaign to improve broadband speeds in Wales, Superfast Broadband Wales https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast (https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast) and their site FAQ had a question regarding the very situation that I'm in - Broadband area, but no capacity. It suggested I email them, which I did, and today I received a reply that said, basically, it was a case of waiting, but that my address has been forwarded to someone (unsure who!) which implied I was now on a waiting list. :fingers:
My neighbour has 40mb fibre, so here's hoping!
Other news is I've been mad busy sorting everything out, everyone I've met so far has been really friendly, the scenery here is wonderful, and I've been planting lots of flowers in pots and troughs and containers to brighten up the garden that's all paving slabs. I'd have set up gardencam again, but a) I've been very busy and b) 448 upload speed is not ideal conditions for running a self-hosted website.
Ian
ps if anyone has any thoughts as to what I might try to squeeze a little more data speed out of the line, I'm happy to hear them, but I'm resigned to waiting for the extra capacity to be available.
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Congratulations on the move to your new home. I hope the shed will be happy with its new garden. :)
What modem/router are you using? Your mention of 448 kbps US tells me that it is using G.992.1 mode. Assuming the device can be so configured, I will recommend that you set it to G.992.3 mode.
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Congratulations on the move to your new home. I hope the shed will be happy with its new garden. :)
What modem/router are you using? Your mention of 448 kbps US tells me that it is using G.992.1 mode. Assuming the device can be so configured, I will recommend that you set it to G.992.3 mode.
Thanks for the quick reply!
It's a Plusnet branded Sagemcom 2704N, quite a basic little router, and from what I can see from the web interface, doesn't let you change all that much, even in "advanced" mode. I can't see anywhere to change what mode it's in.
The "helpdesk" screen (where I can see the line stats and a few other bits of info), states that I'm in ADSL mode. But as this router can be switched to "fibre" mode, I'm unsure if that's what it's telling me, or if it means I'm not in ADSL+ mode etc.
I shall try out my Huawei HG612 3B soon, since that gives me more useful stats and I think gave me a bit of extra speed over my previous TalkTalk router at my old place.
The shed is still in a friends garden, in pieces, but I'm hoping to get it here soon. There's *just* enough room for it, but I've got to dismantle a very rotten smaller shed first.
Ian
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Your mention of 448 kbps US tells me that it is using G.992.1 mode. Assuming the device can be so configured, I will recommend that you set it to G.992.3 mode.
If that sets it to ADSL2 only, all it will achieve is that it will fail to connect if the exchange only does ADSL1.
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There's a useful campaign to improve broadband speeds in Wales, Superfast Broadband Wales https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast (https://beta.gov.wales/go-superfast) and their site FAQ had a question regarding the very situation that I'm in - Broadband area, but no capacity. It suggested I email them, which I did, and today I received a reply that said, basically, it was a case of waiting, but that my address has been forwarded to someone (unsure who!) which implied I was now on a waiting list. :fingers:
That certainly sounds like crossed wires to me.
It would only be an ISP that would be able to place you on a waiting list for FTTC. This is done during the ordering process.
I don't know of any ISP's that use the waiting list now though as it's a pretty awkward and not very automated system.
It sounds to me like you've been put on a list to be contacted when any additional capacity is added. I can't see how a BDUK project could place you on the FTTC waiters list.
Do you know if it's an ECI or Huawei cabinet that serves your premises? If it's an ECI it will need a whole new cabinet. If it's a Huawei then it could also have a High Density expansion fitted.
Your best bet is to check the broadband availability checker daily to watch for the cabinet switching from waiting list to available.
This can happen at any time when a single free port becomes available. Shortly after placing an order for FTTC the checker switches back to a waiting list.
This is without a doubt your best chance of getting an FTTC service when your cabinet is at full capacity.
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That certainly sounds like crossed wires to me.
It would only be an ISP that would be able to place you on a waiting list for FTTC. This is done during the ordering process.
I don't know of any ISP's that use the waiting list now though as it's a pretty awkward and not very automated system.
It sounds to me like you've been put on a list to be contacted when any additional capacity is added. I can't see how a BDUK project could place you on the FTTC waiters list.
Do you know if it's an ECI or Huawei cabinet that serves your premises? If it's an ECI it will need a whole new cabinet. If it's a Huawei then it could also have a High Density expansion fitted.
Your best bet is to check the broadband availability checker daily to watch for the cabinet switching from waiting list to available.
This can happen at any time when a single free port becomes available. Shortly after placing an order for FTTC the checker switches back to a waiting list.
This is without a doubt your best chance of getting an FTTC service when your cabinet is at full capacity.
I'm not sure what happened, but thanks for the nudge - I have just tried the Welsh gov availability checker and it now says I can get fibre at my address, up to 49.57mb. Previously (about a week ago, and prior to emailing the Welsh Gov website) it told me there wasn't capacity.
I checked on the BT Broadband website, and it is now offering to sell me an up to 59mb package; again this wasn't offered before, just ADSL.
When I tried to upgrade my package with Plusnet online, it won't offer me anything else. So I'm currently in a queue for their phone support to see what's happening...
I don't currently know what type of cabinet I'm connected to as I've not found it yet! I've seen several cabinets with a number close to my cabinet number, but not my actual cabinet number yet. I'm imagining it's down a side street I've yet to go down.
Ian
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Having spoken to Plusnet customer support, their system says I can't have fibre! Yet BT broadband site and Welsh government site, which previously said there wasn't capacity, are now saying there is capacity.
gah! >:(
Ian
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We really need to know the name of the local telephony serving exchange and the primary cross-connection cabinet number . . .
Perhaps, when the moment is ripe, you could send a PM to our special agent, Black Sheep, and ask for his assistance? :-\
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BT wholesale checker ( http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/adsl/ADSLChecker.AddressOutput ) shows this for my house :
High Low High Low
VDSL Range A (Clean) 59.4 40 14.7 9.9 36.3 Available --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 49.6 32.1 12.7 6.8 25 Available --
Featured Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Range(Mbps)
WBC FTTP Availability Date
FTTP on Demand 330 30 -- Available --
ADSL Products
Downstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Upstream Line Rate(Mbps)
Downstream Range(Mbps)
Availability Date
WBC ADSL 2+ Up to 2 -- 1 to 3 Available --
ADSL Max Up to 1 -- 1 to 2.5 Available --
WBC Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available --
Fixed Rate 1 -- -- Available --
Other Offerings
Availability Date
VDSL Multicast -- -- -- Available --
ADSL Multicast -- -- -- Available --
whereas before it stated
VDSL Range A (Clean) 61.3 42.4 15.8 10.1 39.6 Waiting list --
VDSL Range B (Impacted) 51.9 32.4 13.6 7.1 27.3 Waiting list --
so why can't Plusnet sell me a fibre connection?
Ian
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Using your phone number should give more accurate results.
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We really need to know the name of the local telephony serving exchange and the primary cross-connection cabinet number . . .
Perhaps, when the moment is ripe, you could send a PM to our special agent, Black Sheep, and ask for his assistance? :-\
I shall do! I don't want to keep troubling him with my woes though.
I wonder if Plusnet's system is a bit out of date, and if I call again early next week, it'll be available? Though the support guy said they used the BT checker (although didn't say which one).
Ian
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Using your phone number should give more accurate results.
Hmm, if I put the phone number in, it's not showing me FTTC at all. Previously, the address checker stated "waiting list".
Ian
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That will be why PlusNet say you can't have FTTC - PN will use the DSL checker and your phone number, as will any ISP that use BTW broadband.
I don't suppose it says you can get FTTP - and not the On Demand type?
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Sounds like a database issue where your phone number and address aren't matching.
If you check the Plusnet website when not logged in, trying your address and choosing a new line, I'm pretty sure it would tell you Fibre was available.
It may only be a single free port that has become free rather than additional capacity being added. If that's the case as soon as someone places an order it will go back to showing "waiting list".
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Is the OP talking about 'fibre' = copper (ie FTTC) or actual FTTP which is fibre optic cable, not copper?
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Is the OP talking about 'fibre' = copper (ie FTTC) or actual FTTP which is fibre optic cable, not copper?
A G.993.2 service over a metallic bearer from a cabinet based MSAN (configured as just a DSLAM). I.e. VDSL2 or FTTC. ;)
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I went out and had a look for my cabinet, and found it - down a side street that I'd not had reason to go down, hence not finding it before.
I've attached some pictures for those who were asking what type of cabinet it is; perhaps it can be identified for me.
What's apparent, though, is that there's very recently been work here.
1st pic is my cabinet. It's sitting in some very fresh tarmac. The pavement has been dug up for a few metres to 3 BT inspection covers in the ground - these have also clearly been lifted very recently.
2nd pic is the cabinet that is just around the corner to cabinet 6. The tarmac here looks older.
3rd pic is a cabinet a little way further on, which is also sitting in fairly recent tarmac.
So I'd suggest extra capacity or modifications have recently been made.
What does the team think? And what's the smaller box to the left of the cabinet in the 1st picture, also numbered 6?
Google street view, most recent is 2012, shows only the one cabinet where number 6 is, and no other boxes nearby.
Ian
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The good -- IMG_20180609_194853.jpg shows the primary cross-connection point (PCP) with a G.9700/1 (G.Fast) pod, containing Huawei electronics, attached at its left hand end.
The bad -- IMG_20180609_194956.jpg shows a "fibre cabinet" equipped with an ECI Hi-FOCuS Mini-Shelf M41 MSAN (configured to operate as a DSLAM).
The good -- IMG_20180609_195031.jpg shows a "fibre cabinet" equipped with a Huawei MA5603T MSAN (configured to operate as a DSLAM).
Are there any "slug trails" of fresher tarmac linking the latter two cabinets with the first, the PCP?
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Assuming that the primary cross-connection point is SWFBX P6 then MagentaSystems CodeLook (https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm) returns this page (https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=1245564&postcodeloc=11916&cabinet=P6).
Taking one line at random, we see that for SWFBX P6 --
"FTTC Available from 6th February 2014, being expanded by July 2018"
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Wandering around Ferndale, Mid Glamorgan, with the aid of Google's Street View, I finally came across what I believe to be SWFBX P6 outside 3 Dolgwilym Street (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6370164,-3.4314383,3a,75y,139.84h,76.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sahM1ppTJc8a7vIm8fATGSQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en).
The ECI M41 equipped cabinet will be in Brewery Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6369177,-3.4314572,3a,75y,44.48h,79.98t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sPs_aSvUbER074GzMmGC5Dg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en), just before the bus stop, whilst the Huawei MA5603T equipped cabinet will be further along Brewery Road (https://www.google.com/maps/@51.6364888,-3.4312413,3a,75y,44.45h,77.5t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sjcysU-qHRIVpKsA528pQ1A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en), past the bus stop.
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Excuse my ignorance, and/or poor memory ..... was it yourself Ian that I informed a few months ago, about where all the plant ran, the Cab, distances, etc ???
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The good -- IMG_20180609_194853.jpg shows the primary cross-connection point (PCP) with a G.9700/1 (G.Fast) pod, containing Huawei electronics, attached at its left hand end.
The bad -- IMG_20180609_194956.jpg shows a "fibre cabinet" equipped with an ECI Hi-FOCuS Mini-Shelf M41 MSAN (configured to operate as a DSLAM).
The good -- IMG_20180609_195031.jpg shows a "fibre cabinet" equipped with a Huawei MA5603T MSAN (configured to operate as a DSLAM).
Are there any "slug trails" of fresher tarmac linking the latter two cabinets with the first, the PCP?
Thanks for the reply and info.
The cabinet in the third picture (near the bus stop, as you rightly worked out!) is sitting in fresh tarmac, and there is a line of fresh tarmac running back towards cabinet 6, though it doesn't go all the way along - I think it stopped near another inspection cover, but I'd have to go back and check).
My assumption here is that the two BT lookup pages (address vs phone number) are out of synch in some way (as suggested by j0hn earlier) . It looks like extra capacity has recently been added, BT Broadband and Welsh gov broadband website now tell me I can get fibre (previously they said I couldn't) but BT wholesale phone lookup says no whereas address lookup says yes.
I wonder how to proceed?
Ian
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Excuse my ignorance, and/or poor memory ..... was it yourself Ian that I informed a few months ago, about where all the plant ran, the Cab, distances, etc ???
Yes it was, and thank you for that useful info. It confirmed that cabinet 6 is where I'm connected, which I went out yesterday and located in the above pictures.
At the time of our earlier conversation, I think we concluded that the existing cabinet was full, confirmed by welsh gov website that told me there was no capacity but more was being added when I did an address check.
Ian
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Ah right .... many thanks for the feedback, thought I was going slightly bonkers for a minute !! :)
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Ah right .... many thanks for the feedback, thought I was going slightly bonkers for a minute !! :)
It's ok, and I'm not going over something you answered a while back either - this was a new development.
Back in March, I tried to get broadband, but couldn't - area is served, but no capacity, as you confirmed.
Last week I did an address check, which still told me only ADSL was available to me.
Yesterday, I did another address check and was told FTTC was now available, speeds of 49.57 or 59 depending on the site I looked at(!), so I tried to order it from plusnet, who told me it wasn't available. ???
Ian
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You could try other ISPs, who some have clue, and it does not cost anything to ask.
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Put your HG612 and try setting it to 3dB down stream.
I us DSLstats >Configuation>Advanced Tweaks to set it.
On my long line I get a bit more out of it and seems stable.
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This evening, I've put my HG612 on the line instead of the locked-down Plusnet router. It means I can now monitor it with DSLstats, as I used to do at my old address, and I've gained a little more info but it didn't overall achieve much.
Down/Up speeds are still 1920/480. Noise margin and attenuation pretty much the same.
It is connecting in G.DMT mode, if I try to force it to anything else, it won't connect at all.
The bitloading seems as expected, tails off smoothly due to line length, nothing else major - I lose 2 bits to radio 4 LW and there's a gap at tone 64 (276Khz). Tone 83 (357.9375KHz) is the only tone with an odd issue - it's only carrying 2 bits, neighbouring tones have 7 bits each.
I will try Tickmike's suggestion later of lowering the Noise margin target - I used to do this at my old address for a bit of extra speed.
Meanwhile, the address database vs phone number database still show discrepancy between availability or not of fibre. I've posted to the plusnet forum to see if anything can be suggested there.
Ian
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Try set target SNR margin to 1 dB.
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A few quick updates here, I've had lots to do away from the computer.
Tweaking the target SNR gives me asmall increase in speed, but anything below 5db SNR significantly increases the error rate and makes things slow down, I'm assuming lots of retries/resends/lost packets. So generally I've left this alone now. (Curiously the SNR is stable, doesn't bob up and down much).
I had a response back from Openreach and from Plusnet, confirming (ambiguously) that "demand is high" in my area, possibly suggesting that it's lack of capacity at the exchange that's now holding me back? Is that possible? There's new equipment installed at my cabinet, but still no capacity due to exchange issues?
I've found plusnet forum very helpful through this, better than TalkTalk and broadly I found their forum support to be good in the past.
No further progress though, but at least it's still working.
If you read my occasional blog, you'll know I'm battling distant-neighbour or stray cats who mess everywhere there's a hint of soil, which has mostly occupied my time recently!
Ian
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I had a response back from Openreach and from Plusnet, confirming (ambiguously) that "demand is high" in my area, possibly suggesting that it's lack of capacity at the exchange that's now holding me back? Is that possible? There's new equipment installed at my cabinet, but still no capacity due to exchange issues?
Yes and no. Not exchange issues as such but the lack of sufficient cable-links between the OLT and the Plusnet equipment at the fibre head-end exchange. Cable-links are the ISP/CP's responsibility; the ISP/CP has to purchase them. As far as Openreach is concerned, the equipment is installed, commissioned and operational. You are currently unable to have a G.993.2 based service from Plusnet due to them being unwilling to spend the money required to purchase the requisite cable-links. :-X
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I shall go and nudge the plusnet forum; I was told to remind them if I hadn't heard more by *consults diary* 5th July.
Nudging commences.
Ian
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It might be a useful source of "ammunition" if you check with other ISP/CPs and have a list of those who can supply you with a G.993.2 service. ;)
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A phone number check on BT Wholesale site https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html (https://www.btwholesale.com/includes/adsl/main.html) now shows FTTC as "Waiting list" for me - Previously there was no info for FTTC when I entered my phone number. Progress?
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Probably means a single port became free and because you/Plusnet didn't get in quick enough it has been taken by someone else! :(
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I nudged plusnet, and earlier today got a response back saying that capacity should be available by the 15th! This checks out on the BT Wholesale checker when given my phone number. :yay:
I shall keep checking on Saturday night and Sunday Morning (and maybe Monday morning too..) and place an order as soon as it says it's available.
Ian
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I nudged plusnet, and earlier today got a response back saying that capacity should be available by the 15th!
Good progress, yes. :dance:
[Please excuse b*cat while he has a Wilson, Keppel and Betty (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilson,_Keppel_and_Betty) moment.]
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Yesterday the BT Wholesale checker (phone number) showed availability date as 15-July-2018.
Today I had a look and it's gone back to "waiting list".
Gah!
:(
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You need to check it super early, just after midnight as that's when the checker updates apparently, to stand the most chance of getting a single spare port when someone has cancelled their connection.
Although with the checker showing an available from date that would more suggest work was involved, rather than just some one cancelling, perhaps there was an issue.
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There's been lots of work around my cabinet very recently, so I presumed it wasn't just me waiting for a spare slot.
I've just checked my number on the BT checker, and it says available. So I've just placed an order! ;D
I was offered two packages, the standard of "up to 40mb", and the top package - but my line is only predicted to maybe go up to 49 if I'm lucky (not only is it a long way to the exchange, it's a fair way to the cabinet), so wasn't worth paying an extra £6 per month to maybe get an extra 9mb. At the very least, I'll wait and see what the stats are from the standard package. 40mb is going to be a lot better than the 1.2 - 1.5mb I get at the moment.
Ian (busy all day in IKEA and assembling IKEA stuff)
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That's good news Ian, hopefully it moves along quickly and the install goes well.
More IKEA furniture, you must have more than IKEA by now ;)
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More IKEA furniture, you must have more than IKEA by now ;)
Yesterday on an IKEA visit I was helping customers get the trolleys from the trolley dispenser conveyor (they get stuck) and later, pointing people to where to get the trolleys from. I spent too much time in there.
But it did result in making a 16 drawer storage unit for a total of £45 instead of £450 :cool: https://sheddyian.wordpress.com/2018/07/17/nordli-2-storage-upgrade/ (https://sheddyian.wordpress.com/2018/07/17/nordli-2-storage-upgrade/)
Ian
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Very nice, and what a bargain, unfortunately (or fortunately) we don't have an Ikea near by.
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Very nice, and what a bargain, unfortunately (or fortunately) we don't have an Ikea near by.
Take it from one that knows ..... you are fortunate, Ron.
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I've been once, nearest one is Lakeside which is 66 miles away.
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I went to one in North London, on the North Circular iirc, somewhere near Wembley maybe, and the queuing for the tills was so bad that I just gave up and walked out. Janet took me to the Glasgow branch once, rather depressing.