Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: konrado5 on June 03, 2018, 03:01:28 AM

Title: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 03, 2018, 03:01:28 AM: https://greenlee-cdn.ebizcdn.com/media/52066063.pdf (page 15)
I attach my Hlog.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: burakkucat on June 03, 2018, 05:30:05 PM: Yes, I agree. They do look similar.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 03, 2018, 09:17:31 PM: Quote from: burakkucat on June 03, 2018, 05:30:05 PM
Yes, I agree. They do look similar.
Unfortunately they don't say about cause. It seem they show it as normal Hlog. :) Perhaps there is something related to measurement and some power output profiles.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: burakkucat on June 03, 2018, 09:26:42 PM: Perhaps you could contact the company and ask if they have a record of the characteristics of the circuit from which that Hlog plot was obtained?

I wouldn't go as far as referring to that plot as a "normal" example. I suspect it was just the first one that was available to the writer of the Instruction Manual.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 03, 2018, 10:52:14 PM: It is good idea. I'm going to PM you about this matter.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 03, 2018, 11:50:18 PM: On the first page of this PDF there is some graph (TDR graph?). I suspect this is graph from the same circuit.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2018, 12:02:28 AM: Quote from: konrado5 on June 03, 2018, 11:50:18 PM
On the first page of this PDF there is some graph (TDR graph?).

It is a TDR representation. If you look at the central selector switch, it is set to "TDR". Whether it is just a mocked-up image, for the front cover of the Instruction Manual, I have no idea.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 04, 2018, 12:04:06 AM: What is impairment noticeable on this TDR?
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2018, 12:13:09 AM: If it was a real TDR trace, I can't think of any defect that might be responsible for its production. However I suspect it is just an image that was created to "look good" on the front cover of the Instruction Manual.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: ejs on June 04, 2018, 08:00:07 PM: The shape of the HLog graphs may be similar, but the values on the vertical axis are quite different. Assuming the units are the same, one would be quite a lot below the other if they were both drawn on the same graph.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 04, 2018, 09:21:27 PM: I see similar pattern (barely noticebale but noticeable) on other circuit Hlog. There is a dip on tone 55 and graph is more bent from tone 100 to tone 200.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 09, 2018, 12:13:38 AM: burakkucat: do you see this pattern?
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: burakkucat on June 09, 2018, 12:29:19 AM: I assume you are asking if I see something similar in the Hlog plot for my own circuit? My answer to that question is "no".
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 09, 2018, 01:05:13 AM: Quote from: burakkucat on June 09, 2018, 12:29:19 AM
I assume you are asking if I see something similar in the Hlog plot for my own circuit? My answer to that question is "no".
No. I ask if you see on hlogdertyh.png the same pattern (although barely visible) as on the hlogwithoutmask.png I see a dip on tone 55 on hlogdertyh.png and it seems to me that graph is more bent from tone 100 to tone 200.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: burakkucat on June 09, 2018, 06:49:49 PM: Sorry, I misunderstood. However I have now looked at the two separate plots and would not say that they could be related. :no:

If you have the two data sets that are used to produce those two plots, why not just perform a sideways difference on them? Something like --

$ sdiff hlog_data-1.txt hlog_data-2.txt . . . . . . . . . $

Human beings have the ability "to see" visual effects that are really not there.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 09, 2018, 07:14:47 PM: Following there is part of hlogwithoutmask.txt (my circuit). Tone 57 have highest attenuation
Code: [Select]
45 -15.5625 46 -16.1875 47 -17.0000 48 -17.9375 49 -18.8750 50 -19.8750 51 -20.8125 52 -21.7500 53 -22.5000 54 -23.1875 55 -23.6875 56 -23.9375 57 -24.0000 58 -23.9375 59 -23.7500 60 -23.4375 61 -23.0625 62 -22.6250 63 -22.0625 64 -21.5000 65 -21.0625Following there is part of hlogdertyh.txt. There is also highest attenuation at tone 57.
Code: [Select]
45 -11.3750 46 -11.3125 47 -11.3125 48 -11.3750 49 -11.4375 50 -11.5000 51 -11.5625 52 -11.6250 53 -11.6250 54 -11.6875 55 -11.6875 56 -11.6875 57 -11.6875 58 -11.6250 59 -11.6250 60 -11.5625 61 -11.5000 62 -11.4375 63 -11.4375 64 -11.3750 65 -11.3125Following there is another part of hlogwithoumask.txt
Code: [Select]
100 -18.8750 190 -30.0000Difference between these values is 11.125.
Following there is another part of hlogwithoutmask.txt
Code: [Select]
306 -30.4375 406 -35.3125Difference between these values is 4.875

Following there is another part of hlogdertyh.txt
Code: [Select]
100 -11.6875 190 -18.1875Difference between these values is 6.5
Following there is another part of hlogdertyh.txt
Code: [Select]
306 -24.0625 406 -28.0000Difference is 3.9375.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: Weaver on June 09, 2018, 09:26:49 PM: I can't see it, Konrado.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: konrado5 on June 09, 2018, 10:08:43 PM: Now it should be noticeable.
Title: Re: Very similar to my Hlog
Post by: Weaver on June 09, 2018, 11:48:33 PM: I would say ‘no’, because the derivative dy / dx does not become zero or nearly so in the one graph within the monotonically decreasing section from tone 100 - 200.

Secondly, there is a local minimum in both around tone 55 but it is minuscule in the one but significant in the other. It looks a bit like ringing.