Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: broadstairs on May 24, 2018, 09:31:50 AM
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I am completely dissatisfied with DLM on my line. It simply refuses to remove either my banding or my interleaving. As most here know I am on an ECI cabinet and I firmly believe my cabinet is affected by what I will refer to as 'the rogue modem issue'. It seems that DLM is incapable of managing my line. Since all my real issues a couple of years ago my line has always been banded around 60meg and interleaved. Even after I managed to get BT (rather than my ISP TT) to remove the banding and interleaving the DLM reset immediately re-applied both and has left my line in this state again despite my ES rate being generally between zero and low single figures downsteam per 24 hours.
It seems to me that BT and doing absolutely nothing about the rogue modem issue and not providing any information about which modem or modems are at fault and are not addressing the DLM issue to fix it which I do not believe is beyond doing.
This is not about pure speed I simply do not accept that leaving me in this situation is reasonable or acceptable. They have had quite a long time to do something about this issue. It seems to me that ECI cabinets are quite simply not fit for purpose and should be replaced. The inaction from BT is symptomatic of a company run by the accountants who do not care about end users.
I am thinking about starting with TT to see if I can get anywhere on this issue and if that fails move on up to BT and OFCom. I just dont see why they should be allowed to get away with doing nothing.
Stuart
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I don't know whether or not this might be the right thing for you, but in the past Andrews and Arnold have had a we’ll fix your line scheme and they have attracted a reputation for taking wholesale service providers to task and fighting for the customer. Anyway, might be at least worth a casual chat with them. They are on IRC for example.
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I don't know whether or not this might be the right thing for you, but in the past Andrews and Arnold have had a we’ll fix your line scheme and they have attracted a reputation for taking wholesale service providers to task and fighting for the customer. Anyway, might be at least worth a casual chat with them. They are on IRC for example.
Agreed. If I were you, broadstairs, I'd contact Andrews and Arnold or at least go on IRC and see what them or their customers have to say. I'm betting they'll say "move to us and we'll sort things out for you". They have a strong reputation for kicking Openreach's ... yeah, and usually get a good outcome in the end. If you end up going via TTB instead of BTw then they also seem to be pretty on top of things if AAISP want TTB to be. Both backhauls are now part of the DLM trial as far as I know, previously TTB wasn't which was why it took a while before my line could get a DLM reset performed (banded).
I'm also curious to know what modem you're using and whether you tried a different chipset when you were fastpath? For example, I'm on an ECI DSLAM (unfortunately) and I've found that the Infineon/Lantiq chipset in a modem works better on my line compared to using a Broadcom chipset. I get around the same sync rate as the Broadcom on my current two lines (but all lines work differently), if not better (by using a negative DS SNRM target offset). I get fewer error seconds than a modem using a Broadcom chipset. Latency is also a millisecond or two lower than Broadcom.
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For ages now I have used Broadcom based routers, Zyxels and now a Netgear (see sig).
Stuart
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Have you tried capping your line yet? Interleaving can be very sticky on some lines.
Despite being ILQ green everyday for over 6 months my line remained interleaved until I applied a cap for a few days.
I don't believe your DSLAM suffers from the rogue modem issue. If it did it would be stuck in the open profile left after the DLM reset.
My recommendation would be to call the line at 50Mb for a few days.
Past experience tells me that should definitely remove the interleaving.
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Well I've finally given in and reduced my line speed to 50000kbps manually (interestingly the Netgear uses adslctl not xdslctl) and will see if anything happens although I am not hopeful. Unfortunately my ES rate went up a bit because of a very large number of lightning strikes in the Channel and the French coast which always adversely affects me as I'm only about 800 yards from the coastline here and about 130 ft ASL.
Stuart
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I just ask out of interest, so I understand.
Is latency a pain for you? Are you a gamer?
I am an odd fish myself who loves interleave, perhaps the only one who wants it put up. :-)
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No I'm not an online gamer. However I know my line is capable of running fastpath and infact not banded both of which seem to be permanent on my line and I find that unacceptable, I'm paying for up to 80meg and I believe my line should run to its maximum capability to comply with my contract, running interleaved and capped is not allowing this.
Stuart
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I hope the current cap works. I doubt that you will notice that it is in place but depending on prevailing the errors a bigger cap may be needed. Again you may not notice it. However if fastpath returns you ought to notice that as an improved response time, I certainly did. At least 15 days of a cap is usually needed and some have needed longer.
It has been said before but a change of ISP from TT to one that uses the fast DLM profile would both reset the DLM and provide a factor of 2 increase in the permitted error levels for fastpath. My line currently jumps between fastpath and interleaved a few times a year unless I maintain a small speed cap.
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Be careful especially as DLM intervention using capped speeds is not really known.
With thunderstorms due you do not want DLM to think your line is having trouble running at 50Mb and take action of further banding especially with what it may think is a max sync speed of 50Mb.
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I very much doubt DLM will notice the storms as the are not over the UK so only folks like me close to the coast will see the issues and my Netgear seems much better than the ZyXELs were at coping. My line is already capped at 60000kbps by DLM and has been for months.
Stuart
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Very warm and humid conditions will lead to thunderstorms developing across parts of Southern England, the South and West Midlands and Wales on both Saturday and Sunday.
Being in the south I'l definitely be watching the errors and maybe turning the turning the modem off if its as bad as the ones last month.
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Well after 2 weeks capped at 50000kbps DLM put me on fast path this morning. I stll have my manual cap applied so will leave that for a couple of days as we have some work being done in a few days which will mean a power down for some hours while it is being completed, after which I will allow a normal sync with no manual cap.
Stuart
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Did your manual cap survive the DLM resync then? I only ask as I am considering capping my line and knowing I only need to reinstate it after a hardware reboot would be valuable information.
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Did your manual cap survive the DLM resync then? I only ask as I am considering capping my line and knowing I only need to reinstate it after a hardware reboot would be valuable information.
Well it did on my current router (see sig).
Stuart
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Ah yes, too easy to assume everyone here is running Zyxel kit! :D
Is your netgear router broadcom based, with the cap produced with xdslctl configure --maxDataRate?
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Ah yes, too easy to assume everyone here is running Zyxel kit! :D
Is your netgear router broadcom based, with the cap produced with xdslctl configure --maxDataRate?
Yes it is Broadcom, and yes the command is actually adslctl (that's Netgear for you)!!! but the syntax is the same.
Stuart
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Yes it is Broadcom, and yes the command is actually adslctl (that's Netgear for you)!!! but the syntax is the same.
Stuart
Either adslctl or xdslctl work on my 6220.
They appear to behave identically.
:)
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(And they could have just called it “dslctl”. And of course the technology of VDSL2 is still ADSL for with A for Asymmetric, never mind what the standards doc is called.)
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Really annoyed this morning as DLM put me back on interleaving. The max ES I've had in 24 hours since the manual cap came off was 250 which according to Kitz calculator is Amber. DLM is being well over zealous. The manual cap was removed after I had the router off for 24 hours for some work in the house and does not survive a power off/on and that was on Wednesday.
Roll-on VM
Stuart
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Really annoyed this morning as DLM put me back on interleaving. The max ES I've had in 24 hours since the manual cap came off was 250 which according to Kitz calculator is Amber. DLM is being well over zealous. The manual cap was removed after I had the router off for 24 hours for some work in the house and does not survive a power off/on and that was on Wednesday.
Roll-on VM
Stuart
Could it be that you switched the router on somewhere late in the day and subsequently your MTBE exceeded the threshold?
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Get yourself a Draytek Vigor 130. I bet you interleaving gets removed within a couple of weeks!
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Could it be that you switched the router on somewhere late in the day and subsequently your MTBE exceeded the threshold?
No it went off at 8am and back on at 8 am following day, also why wait till Saturday morning to do it when the outage started Wednesday. Surely it shold ignore the power down/up with a 24 hour gap, if not it is plain stupid.
No one is going to convince me DLM is fit for purpose.
Stuart
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No it went off at 8am and back on at 8 am following day, also why wait till Saturday morning to do it when the outage started Wednesday. Surely it shold ignore the power down/up with a 24 hour gap, if not it is plain stupid.
No one is going to convince me DLM is fit for purpose.
Stuart
That sounds strange, 250 ES in roughly 16 hours shouldn't have triggered it I would've thought (even the calculator indicates that). There's quite a few unknowns about DLM though, such as what triggers banding only, or banding with interleaving, or just simply no banding with interleaving. If I had the option I would turn off DLM on my own line but sadly no such option exists, so the best I can do is be on the 'speed' profile and have a program (WIP) automatically intervene if my errors get too high for my own liking - as I prefer fastpath. Likewise reduce the SNRM target if they seem to be fine for a period of time.
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Being with TalkTalk I am on the standard profile but even then it should have been amber and not triggered DLM.
Stuart