Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: Stevie1978 on May 19, 2018, 11:53:31 AM
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Can anyone advise if their is any custom firmware?
Any tweaks ( apart from snr )?
Or optimised settings i can use to squeeze some more power out of my copper broadband.
Unfortunately, I live in a rural part of the UK that only has access to copper broadband.
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Can anyone advise if their is any custom firmware?
Billion are not forthcoming with sources even in violation of the GPL, there is a thread gathering dust on their forums calling them out on it, but no other response than "I'l ask the engineers".
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Hope someone can help try and get the most out of the router
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Very naughty. I wonder if their product marketing people might help if you are extra charming given the GPL responsibilities the company has.
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Not seen anything in relation to custom firmware for Billion devices. Though, in any case, if a custom firmware existed then it would not guarantee better connectivity between you and the exchange (I did assume you are on ADSL) - it would depend more on the DSL driver in use, and even then the difference is generally very small unless there is a bug. Furthermore, drivers are not readily available anyway (at least in reference to Broadcom, since they do no release them) so custom firmware that COULD exist for the 8800NL R2 would ship without support for xDSL (the modem part of the device) so it is out of the question.
The 8800NL R2 should do a reasonable job as-is without any tweaking. I would advise against tweaking the Sound to Noise Ratio (SNR) unless Dynamic Line Management (DLM) is switched off for your line as in some cases it can be more trouble than it is worth.
It would be helpful if you could provide stats from the router using something like telnet (some information here: https://kitz.co.uk/routers/telnet_router.htm (https://kitz.co.uk/routers/telnet_router.htm)) or SSH (you can use PuTTY if you are on Windows). Please provide copy-pasted stats from the following commands:
adsl info --stats
adsl info --vendor
adsl profile --show
It may be possible to make improvements to your connection if you provide this information for us to look at.
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Could you tell us a bit about your line, stats, attenuation, type of DSL, line length and your ISP?
There might be things that can be done, depending on how much cash you want to waste, with no guarantees of improvement in some cases. I have three extremely long lines 4.55mi 7300m long, 65dB downstream attn, ADSL2 and have put a great deal of effort into making a load of changes, very speculative, some voodoo, some not, trying everything I possibly can to get more speed and reliability. So I can tell you what I have done.
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Here is a link to an old list of tips : https://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,15971.msg297279.html#msg297279
I should be very careful with the thing about ferrites, I got ticked off for this. If you try it, you must take advice first and then test thoroughly to make sure you are not making things worse.
I have since changed to ADSL2. If you are on ADSL2+ and have an extremely long line it might be worth trying out setting your modem to ADSL2-only instead of ADSL2+ or ‘auto’ or multiple DSL type options. This might do nothing. I doesn't work for me, with my particular modem but it may work for some and is definitely worth a go.
Changing modem is very important but it's all more money. But you have a good modem anyway. It would be worth comparison testing to see if a ZyXEL VMG 1312-B10A or similar (not a B10D !) is better for you.
Sorting out wiring and even going as far as change-point-of entry and getting rid of evil wired analog phones and all extensions is a big deal in terms of hassle, but possible substantial improvements.
The mains filtering that I am using (multiple types in series !) includes as Belkin AV mains filter. May or may not do anything.
I suspect that the longer the line the more chance these wacky things might have of giving some benefit. Definitely no guarantees and some of these ideas are probably very wild or just plain daft, but I have been willing to try absolutely anything and I test very carefully even though it takes a lot of time and is a pain to gather proper statistics.
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Here's my stats.
Many thanks
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First thing. You are using G.DMT. That is not good. Is ADSL2 (G.992.3) available to you on your exchange ? Changing to ADSL2-only would bring a big improvement.
There must be more info pages there. See Status WAN and ATM on the left? Could you screenshot those? I'm hoping that it will show 'PPPoA' somewhere too?
Oh, and who is your ISP?
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My isp is idnet.
[Moderator edited to remove an image that is leaking confidential information.]
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is mtu suppose to be 1478 [give 1500 a shot?]
firewall off = all ports open? [if so, turn it on and enable upnp, its better trade-off]
about adsl2, you probably need to ask them to switch you to adsl2, but maybe you can screenshot the page with adsl2 / SRA / Bitswap etc
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Switched to 1500
Upnp enabled
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first submit your upgrade request here**: https://www.idnet.net/support/guides/basics/adsl2plus.php
** i dont know if it's possible but adsl2 is better for you than adsl2+. but they might offer just adsl2+ which is worth trying.
once they told you it's active in a few days or whatever, assuming it's not vdsl2 in which case you tick only that for modulation and untick sra, then:
untick g.dmt and adsl2+, and leave just adsl2 ticked.
untick sra
and see if it synced, if not,
instead tick annex l ,
didn't sync,
instead tick adsl2+
or,
instead tick annex m
i wonder what is in advanced setup :fingers: i dont know this router
ps about upnp there will be people that will tell you to disable it under any circumstance but that is the case for specific routers or someone that wants to set trigger ports for every possible application year round, and upnp is better for multiple pc's using the same ports. or he uses just internet surfing. this is a matter of security vs convenience but first of all i dont think your router has a upnp exploit and if you keep your pc's themselves secure upnp couldnt be used to backdoor other pc's on your network. right now it's of 0 importance and i always used upnp so you can make up your mind later, because if i was correct all your ports were open and now you have them closed and opened as needed [or that was a different type of firewall, idk]
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Thanks very much for that
I will put a request in :-)
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it shows the firewall as unticked, you should tick it
if its not a hassle you can show me the pages in the advanced and if its too easy then the rest of the pages in the router to be done with it xd
edit: if you do get switched to adsl2 then you can use the program DSLStats to copy paste all the stats and graph images it has in (code) tags. the best way to connect the router (higher SNR, less errors - more internet speed) is to a filtered faceplate rather than a microfilter (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/31rPc3PpHuL._SY355_.jpg), that are otherwise needed if you connect any telephones to the DSL sockets, but never needed if you connect the router to a faceplate. if you dont have a filtererd faceplate installed there are recommendations that others can give you here on which to buy. as well as how to check if you have a faceplate and discussions about other topics that ill let others do. however the router would be connected somewhere else that might have worse wifi signal or not be connectable with ethernet cables without getting them through walls or ceilings but you could use a wifi repeater. whether it's worth the hassle is to be seen. also you'd be surprised but the billion flat DSL cable [from router to dsl socket] has some of the highest possible syncs.
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first submit your upgrade request here**: https://www.idnet.net/support/guides/basics/adsl2plus.php
** i dont know if it's possible but adsl2 is better for you than adsl2+. but they might offer just adsl2+ which is worth trying.
The OP's (Stevie1978) exchange is not enabled for 21CN WBC services and there is no presence for LLU. ADSL2+ is not going to be available for ANY ISP - the best he can get is ADSL (G.DMT modulation).
if its not a hassle you can show me the pages in the advanced and if its too easy then the rest of the pages in the router to be done with it xd
There's nothing really in the advanced settings that is going to "optimise" his connection, at least in relation to his connection between the modem and the exchange.
As for firewall and UPnP, I would strongly recommend the former is enabled and that the latter is disabled in situations where it is not needed as it tends to have security implications.
The max MTU on the mass of Billion devices is 1492 bytes, not 1500. That is the highest value you could try, but I do not know which value would work best on IPStream services (ADSL Max) and the benefit of an increased MTU in terms of throughput is generally small.
Stevie1978, perhaps you could look at https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm) and identify what your socket looks like so we can better assist you in your cabling/filtering?
Also, you might want to ask mods to remove Screenshot_2018-05-20-15-47-49.png since it exposes your landline number... since I imagine your login address is based on that.
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The OP's (Stevie1978) exchange is not enabled for 21CN WBC services and there is no presence for LLU. ADSL2+ is not going to be available for ANY ISP - the best he can get is ADSL (G.DMT modulation).
There's nothing really in the advanced settings that is going to "optimise" his connection, at least in relation to his connection between the modem and the exchange.
As for firewall and UPnP, I would strongly recommend the former is enabled and that the latter is disabled in situations where it is not needed as it tends to have security implications.
The max MTU on the mass of Billion devices is 1492 bytes, not 1500. That is the highest value you could try, but I do not know which value would work best on IPStream services (ADSL Max) and the benefit of an increased MTU in terms of throughput is generally small.
Stevie1978, perhaps you could look at https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm (https://kitz.co.uk/adsl/btsockets.htm) and identify what your socket looks like so we can better assist you in your cabling/filtering?
Also, you might want to ask mods to remove Screenshot_2018-05-20-15-47-49.png since it exposes your landline number... since I imagine your login address is based on that.
never said it would improve the connection. about upnp its funny how everyone keeps overestimating its importance on PC's and ignore its downside when suggesting it's turned off when Wifi hacking is far more risky on PC's without security holes. but its true he can enable it any time as needed, i just gave a set and forget and warned that the PC will still remain the security hole for this router. 1500 worked for him but should try "ping google.com -l 1472 -f" should succeed and the same with 1473 instead of 1472 should fail. about his request theres no harm in that request but if you are right then my bad and thank you for revealing what to expect.
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The 1478 MTU may be the optimum value for throughput. The idea is that there'll be no wasted space in a partly filled ATM cell for a full size packet, which outweighs the loss from the reduction in packet size.
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The 1478 MTU may be the optimum value for throughput. The idea is that there'll be no wasted space in a partly filled ATM cell for a full size packet, which outweighs the loss from the reduction in packet size.
it's a max mtu, he can set it lower on his pc.
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Also, you might want to ask mods to remove Screenshot_2018-05-20-15-47-49.png since it exposes your landline number... since I imagine your login address is based on that.
Now removed.
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If samknows is correct, it it sometime very out of date, and you are still on a BT 20CN exchange then you won't be able to get ADSL2 until they upgrade the exchange hardware. Hopefully that will not be too long. After many years of waiting my exchange was upgraded to BT 21CN at the end of 2015.
Check that under PPPoA (click on that entry perhaps?) it does not say "LLC" but should say "VC-MUX" for very slightly better performance in some cases only. You will probably find this is already so. If you change this setting, test.
Warning: in your case the earlier advice about using VC-MUX only holds if using PPPoA. You probably are using PPPoA so all good. If you are using "PPPoE", which you should not be, and you have a BT 20CN exchange then you will not successfully be able to use VC-MUX. Whatever, if you find it doesn't work after you change to VC-MUX, then change back to LLC.
* The MTU of 1478 is a slight performance tweak. (That is the optimal value for PPPoA VC-MUX.) It will give you a slight improvement in speed compared to MTU 1500.
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If samknows is correct, it it sometime very out of date, and you are still on a BT 20CN exchange then you won't be able to get ADSL2 until they upgrade the exchange hardware. Hopefully that will not be too long. After many years of waiting my exchange was upgraded to BT 21CN at the end of 2015.
Check that under PPPoA (click on that entry perhaps?) it does not say "LLC" but should say "VC-MUX" for very slightly better performance in some cases only. You will probably find this is already so. If you change this setting, test.
Warning: in your case the earlier advice about using VC-MUX only holds if using PPPoA. You probably are using PPPoA so all good. If you are using "PPPoE", which you should not be, and you have a BT 20CN exchange then you will not successfully be able to use VC-MUX. Whatever, if you find it doesn't work after you change to VC-MUX, then change back to LLC.
* The MTU of 1478 is a slight performance tweak. (That is the optimal value for PPPoA VC-MUX.) It will give you a slight improvement in speed compared to MTU 1500.
He is using PPPoA with VC-MUX. But he should only set 1478 on his devices (why set it on the router? it's less good), + mtu 1500 is the internet standard and can work faster as long as he doesn't cap his speed and up to him to decide if a 2% speed increase is worth it.
I think he should look at TCP Optimizer (https://www.speedguide.net/articles/tcp-optimizer-4-documentation-windows-7-8-10-2012-5821) to make sure his few possible TCP settings on the PC are correct. As well as disabling some network card features (https://www.speedguide.net/articles/network-adapter-optimization-3449). I personally chose to disable all my available settings except for Receive Side Scaling.
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If samknows is correct, it it sometime very out of date, and you are still on a BT 20CN exchange then you won't be able to get ADSL2 until they upgrade the exchange hardware. Hopefully that will not be too long. After many years of waiting my exchange was upgraded to BT 21CN at the end of 2015.
Thinkbroadband and CodeLook also confirm that the exchange is lacking LLU and WBC connectivity, so no ADSL2/2+ capable hardware is there. There is an article at ISP Review (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/02/bt-update-uk-fttp-sogea-3db-21cn-wbc-broadband-plans.html (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2017/02/bt-update-uk-fttp-sogea-3db-21cn-wbc-broadband-plans.html)) that does say that BT intends to replace all remaining IPStream exchanges with WBC by the end of 2018, so perhaps it may become a reality if the plans have not changed.
FTTC does exist on cabinets served by SSTRY, but only P2, P3, P7 and P8. Though in this case it uses another exchange as the "handover" (I believe what it is called) which will have 21CN WBC and required backhaul for FTTC connections. It makes sense for exchanges with a lot of premises covered to have 21CN connectivity when providing FTTC/P to nearby areas served by exchanges with very few premises (so there is effectively no need to upgrade the smaller exchange itself to provide faster services to the area).
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I'd stick to checking codelook and thinkbroadband tbh.
Samknows is horrendously out of date.
It's not the resource it once was sadly.
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I'd stick to checking codelook and thinkbroadband tbh.
Samknows is horrendously out of date.
It's not the resource it once was sadly.
I don't know why but it shows "FTTC": https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=1222366&postcodedet=GL194EU
And it doesn't have adsl2..... hm ok.
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I don't know why but it shows "FTTC": https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=1222366&postcodedet=GL194EU
And it doesn't have adsl2..... hm ok.
As I essentially said before, it is because an exchange nearby (and I cannot confirm which) which presumably serves more premises already has 21CN WBC enabled and is being used as a "handover". This implies that FTTC is actually served from the other exchange (which has 21C WBC, a prerequisite for fibre-enabled services) and not the exchange that currently serves the OP's 20CN broadband and PSTN. This generally happens on exchanges with a small amount of premises where there is an exchange with more premises served nearby.
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I don't do the 1478 thing myself. The rationale behind 1478 lose 22 bytes of payload and gain 53 bytes of one ATM cell saved. See wikipedia article on PPPoE which does mention PPPoA briefly (disclosure: I wrote the section on PPPoEoA overheads and efficiency).
Using MTU 1500 gives you the widest compatibly with other devices on the internet. Lots of users have no choice and have to use MTU 1492.
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. . . it uses another exchange as the "handover" (I believe what it is called) . . .
I believe you are searching for the phrase "fibre head-end". :)
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I believe you are searching for the phrase "fibre head-end". :)
Thanks for correcting the terminology. Though, surely I am right in saying 21CN WBC is a prerequisite?
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What should I set mtu to?
Also, what should I set these to
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Though, surely I am right in saying 21CN WBC is a prerequisite?
No, it isn't a prerequisite. :)
As an example, N*Star's current situation shows it quite clearly. For the serving telephony exchange, the Magenta Systems CodeLook page (https://www.telecom-tariffs.co.uk/codelook.htm?xid=1223747&cabinets=24324) shows --
Locality: Helens Bay, Bangor, County Down All Post Codes
Country: Northern Ireland Post Code: BT19
20CN IPStream: ADSL 21CN WBC: None
Fibre: From 26th August 2010 Type: FTTC, FoD
BT Exchange: Helens Bay Exchange Code: NIHB
Notice my emboldening. The fibre head-end exchange is Bangor, NIBA.
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Many thanks
Locality: Tirley, Gloucester, Gloucestershire All Post Codes All 7 Fibre Cabinets
District: Tewkesbury County: Gloucestershire
Country: England Post Code: GL19
20CN IPStream: ADSL 21CN WBC: None
Fibre: From 17th July 2015 Type: FTTC, FoD
BT Exchange: Tirley Exchange Code: SSTRY
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What should I set mtu to?
Also, what should I set these to
I would set the MTU to the maximum that the Billion 8800NL allows.
As for the other parameters on that page, leave them all as they are currently set.
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Is that 1492, 1500 or something else?
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No, it isn't a prerequisite. :)
I mean, for the exchange which is the "fibre-head" exchange it needs 21CN WBC first?
Is that 1492, 1500 or something else?
From the two devices that I own from Billion, I believe 1492 bytes is the max.
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Tick G.DMT and ADSL2 in hope, some day. Untick ADSL2+. Tick Bitswap and SRA, in hope, again. Tick 'Trellis' if it is there. Choose PPPoA not PPPoE and choose VC-MUX as opposed to LLC wherever that is.
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I mean, for the exchange which is the "fibre-head" exchange it needs 21CN WBC first?
Ah, I see. My apologies for misunderstanding. :-[ In truthfulness, the fibre head-end does not need to be an exchange building but it would certainly be simpler if it was! In the case of an exchange based fibre head-end I would be surprised if the telephony side was not based on 21CN WBC.
I wonder if either Black Sheep or I*net could offer a few words on the subject?
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Ah, I see. My apologies for misunderstanding. :-[ In truthfulness, the fibre head-end does not need to be an exchange building but it would certainly be simpler if it was! In the case of an exchange based fibre head-end I would be surprised if the telephony side was not based on 21CN WBC.
I wonder if either Black Sheep or I*net could offer a few words on the subject?
I think I am confusing it more than necessary, so perhaps it should be its own thread in reality. I just thought that for FTTx to be provided, appropriate network backhaul (the enablement of 21CN WBC) was required beforehand.
Someone please correct me in 3...2...1... :)
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Definitely go with 1500, that is what I use.
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I mean, for the exchange which is the "fibre-head" exchange it needs 21CN WBC first?
From the two devices that I own from Billion, I believe 1492 bytes is the max.
He already uses 1500, 1492 is a PPPoE limit.
Assuming your PC is running Windows, change its MTU to 1500 with TCP Optimizer (https://www.speedguide.net/downloads.php). Tick "Modify All Network Adapters", tick "Optimal" at the bottom and click "Apply changes" & "OK", but say "No" to restart prompt, and close TCP Optimizer. Then, re-open TCP Optimizer, tick "Custom" at the bottom, in the "MTU" box enter "1500". I've also attached a picture of what the other settings should be, but a note about the "Disable Nagle's algorithm" section in the "Advanced Settings" tab - leave them on "default" (explanation (https://www.speedguide.net/articles/gaming-tweaks-5812)). I've disabled both Nagle algorithms for minimum latency (gaming), but it's not good for data transfer (streaming). The rest are ideal for you. After you're done click "Apply changes" and restart your PC for it to take effect.
To test if 1500 is working on your PC, open a "command prompt" and you should get similar results:ping google.com -l 1472 -f
Pinging google.com [172.217.23.14] with 1472 bytes of data:
Reply from 172.217.23.14: bytes=64 (sent 1472) time=74ms TTL=51
Reply from 172.217.23.14: bytes=64 (sent 1472) time=73ms TTL=51
Reply from 172.217.23.14: bytes=64 (sent 1472) time=74ms TTL=51
Reply from 172.217.23.14: bytes=64 (sent 1472) time=74ms TTL=51
Ping statistics for 172.217.23.14:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 4, Lost = 0 (0% loss),
Approximate round trip times in milli-seconds:
Minimum = 73ms, Maximum = 74ms, Average = 73ms
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ping google.com -l 1473 -f
Pinging google.com [172.217.23.14] with 1473 bytes of data
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Packet needs to be fragmented but DF set.
Ping statistics for 172.217.23.14:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 0, Lost = 4 (100% loss),
About SRA, just keep it unticked. give unticked a shot, and see whether you have more de-syncs (dropouts).
It isn't supported on ADSL [just ADSL2], and it's always better to have it off when not supported. People had problems with it enabled in the router because of its router implementation, like not syncing or line problems.
When you get ADSL2 this year :fingers:, if you'll have line drops, you could try ticking it (there's a chance your exchange wouldn't support it though).
I hope you ticked Firewall in the ATM interface. Also if you want you can screenshot any or all the router pages and I'll say which settings to use.
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Use a quality faceplate type filter (jargon: an SSFP) instead of the dangly ones. The BT Pressac ones are excellent.
If you have no (traditional, wired) phones and no extensions then you don't need a filter even. (I don't.)