Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: jelv on May 17, 2018, 02:37:17 PM
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Does anyone here use AAISP's email system and if so do you do spam training by moving emails to learnspam and learnham?
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Hi jelv
Sorry I do not use AAISP but I think you are referring to basian learning.
If so, basian learning requires both learn ham and spam to work correctly, and it has to meet a certain number of each every day
We found that most users of email do not use learn ham and spam, and as a result, the basian filter was not working as expected.
We have for many years turned basian off in full, but we do use other measures such as spam assassin (updated hourly) etc...
If I am wrong, please accept my apologies
Many thanks
John
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Yes, and yes. I think it uses Bayesian learning.
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We have for many years turned basian off in full,
Hi John, so I might as well stop dutifully moving spam to the learn spam folder then?
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Until sometime earlier this month, emails would be moved overnight back to the appropriate folders (learnham -> inbox, learnspam -> spam). It has now stopped doing that so I raised a support email which got the following response:
I've just checked with our ops team and they inform me that feature is not currently working. We hope to have this back when our new mail servers go live later in the year. Sorry for the inconvenience.
I'm somewhat surprised that they turned this off without posting a notice or amending the help documentation.
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I copied things to the learnspam / learnham folders, rather than moving them.
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Hi ronski
Sorry... it’s one thing I never think to let know to users
Your one of the very few who do it but basian needs everyone to do it to work properly.
However, we can turn on individually if you want to use basian filtering but honestly, it works far better without it, because there are fewer false positives wheee genuine email is spammed
If you want it turned on for you, please let me know
Many thanks
John
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@d2d4j
Are you talking about AAISP's system?
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I copied things to the learnspam / learnham folders, rather than moving them.
Doesn't that mean you end up with duplicates when they are learnt by the overnight processing?
https://support.aa.net.uk/Default_Folders says move not copy.
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Yes I suppose it could mean I end up with duplicates. I recall now that I had noticed things disappearing out of the ham/spam folders. I havent noticed duplicates being created after copies were put into learnham at least.
I have been doing the ham/spam thing every day. I moved to using AA email in February.
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Hi jelv
No sorry.
Learn ham/spam usually indicate basian filtering, so I was just letting you know over our experiences in using basian filtering
Many thanks
John
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I was puzzled by your offer to turn on basian filtering for Weaver who also uses AAISP's mail system!
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Baysian can be configured globally or on a per user basis, I got no idea which way AAISP have it configured, but I am impressed they have a system setup allowing their customers to move emails to specific ham or spam categories.
I am also not aware of a minimum requirement for it to function, but reliability will increase with a higher amount of learning.
If I was a customer of AAISP and used their email, then to answer your question Jelv I would be utilising the feature.
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AA email has whitelist / blacklist rules based on a combination of any/all of to: address, from: address and/or subject line, all of which can take very simple wildcards (not full regexes).
One weird thing that support told me is that the so-called from: address match in the rules actually isn't. I'm told it really matches on some other mail header field value, can't remember for the life of me what the name of it is, it was described as ‘envelope’ <something-or-other> but that is unfortunately not the name of the header in question, I remember that much. They really really need to either fix this or at least document it. It's really annoying and misleading and you have to start digging into the guts of emails, you can't just look at the lame stuff your favourite email client shows you.
If you find the rules fail on you when you specify rules on from: address then this is what it is. I had a persistent spammer and I couldn't block them by from: address rule even though I tried every variation I could think of for the email address match string in case I was failing to understand their wildcarding. Anyway if you have a problem, then it's either that or you have not got your mind right about their wildcarding syntax, which caught me out.
In fact there is no excuse, I should document it, I and you have access to their wiki.
Their engine doesn't seem to have the sophisticated range of actions that I had before with UKservers where you could associate actions with a rule-match such as redirecting mail, moving or binning it.
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The sleepy cat opens one eye and hopes his brief note will not be regarded as too pedantic . . .
Thomas Bayes (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_things_named_after_Thomas_Bayes), c1701 - 1761, gives his name to a theorem (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayes%27_theorem) that is the foundation of Bayesian probability (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayesian_probability). It is Bayesian probability that is used by e-mail systems, such as that you are discussing here. :graduate:
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I was puzzled by your offer to turn on basian filtering for Weaver who also uses AAISP's mail system!
He was offering to turn it on for me, as he hosts my email, nothing to do with AA, sorry.
John, no need if it's not going to work reliably, thanks.
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The Reverend, do I remember correctly?
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Hi
@ronski
Many thanks. Sorry it does work but unless trained daily on both ham spam it can give undesired results.
I do not wish to change this thread and have no time at moment to go in-depth over basian suffice to say, I am fully averse with basian and have discussed this topic on another forum in-depth
@bcat - sorry my spelling is terrible and you are correct with your spelling
@weaver - sorry I think you may now be going into spam assassin with rule matching but could be wrong
Many thanks
John
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@Weaver
The strangeness of which header it matches to is not unique to AAISP. If you look in headers there are a number which contain email addresses, not all of which the user sees when looking at the email normally. On Plusnet there was confusion as to whether it was From, Reply-to or Return-Path.
Also you have to take care with the recipients address if you are using aliases to get those to match.
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I'm not sure, but a bell range, might be Return-Path for AA, possibly. But not at all sure.