Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: hacktrix2006 on May 04, 2018, 04:47:48 PM

Title: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on May 04, 2018, 04:47:48 PM
Right hi all, remember i said about my SNR on down stream being 3DB etc, well yesterday my line has taken a right good old dump.

I have removed all extensions (Data/Phone) and even tested in the test socket with ADSL Micro filters tried 8 all new and its doing the same thing.
The SNR on the Upstream will either go from 6.0db to 0.4db when the phone is picked up and disconnect the internet (Which is why i decided to check filters) or go the other way and have an SNR of 6554.xx when the phone gets picked up (I was shocked as well thought it was a mis-read on my router so even swapped the routers over and the same thing still happens). The error count(s) also go through the roof.

So now the brain is spinning what can this be, there was noise on the line but its intermittent and i have reported it as a Phone fault.

Now all 8 Micro Filters show the same issue when plugged into the test socket, the MK3 and ADSL Nation pre-filered plate shows the same issue when they are connected.

I have changed routers/modems same thing am i right in thinking the High resistance fault is back??
I have been running a logging session whilst i have been doing the test i will upload them if the graphs show the dips.

Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: burakkucat on May 04, 2018, 07:28:45 PM
. . . am i right in thinking the High resistance fault is back??

Yes, it certainly reads as if you have one (or more) joints showing HR (or semi-conductive) tendencies.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on May 04, 2018, 07:33:26 PM
Yes, it certainly reads as if you have one (or more) joints showing HR (or semi-conductive) tendencies.
Thought so as calling the number now increases only the upstream errors and decreases or increases snr however picking the phone up now results in broadband going completely.

Does this also in the test socket now as well.

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: burakkucat on May 04, 2018, 08:49:12 PM
That is fairly conclusive. The problem comes in identifying the defective joint.

Performing a TDR trace, whilst looking towards the exchange battery, and making a call to that circuit could give a good indication of the distance to suspect joint.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on May 04, 2018, 10:01:54 PM
That is fairly conclusive. The problem comes in identifying the defective joint.

Performing a TDR trace, whilst looking towards the exchange battery, and making a call to that circuit could give a good indication of the distance to suspect joint.

Thanks for that info, Engineer should be coming on 9th so unsure weather to make the engineer a brew first before saying what i suspect the issue is or just let him/she be.

My guess the defective joint will either be in the exchange or cab (Engineers cable joint busting when messing with birds nest, it happens quite often), failing that it might be on a road that was recently worked on however the fault didn't show its head till Wednesday (2nd) just gone at around 6pm so that might just rule out roadworks as that was end of last week.

What i find really funny is according to the router i have seen max attenable shoot from 8mb to 9.5mb its as if the connection is trolling me big time.

Just had the connection disco whilst typing this

Line rate (kbit/s)   7611    555    
CRC errors                   79191    0    
FEC errors                   1305    0    
HEC errors            6252    0

Thats in a few seconds and that is going to require a profile reset after its fixed as its now disconnecting ever 10 seconds.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: NewtronStar on May 04, 2018, 10:14:19 PM
Thanks for that info, Engineer should be coming on 9th so unsure weather to make the engineer a brew first before saying what i suspect the issue is or just let him/she be.

Being nice or offering them coffee/Tea will not change the result they are there to do a job and not socialize with the human race it can be seen as bribery to offer a bacon sandwich to an OR Engineer which goes against OFCOM rules.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on May 04, 2018, 10:21:39 PM
I am always nice to BTOR staff, although i might offer a strong tea or coffee they might need it before finding that dodgy joint(s).
In fact i am nice to anyone that comes to my door until they do something rude or abusive then its nice hat off.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: NewtronStar on May 04, 2018, 11:57:11 PM
You get three types of OR Engineers the open chatty type and then the one that clinches his/her chin with thumb and makes odd noises while doing the diagnostic tests, the third one is the quiet type which ignores anything you say and keeps their findings to themselves

I find the one that clinches there chin and makes odd noises is the better type of engineer they can see an issue and are trying to resolve it, the Chatty type may be young and inexperienced with a hopeful career ahead, the quiet type just doesn't like the job.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: Weaver on May 05, 2018, 12:07:52 AM
I always try to be extremely nice to BTOR engineers who are normally excellent locals, always very quiet - the opposite of garrulous. Unfortunately many of them don't seem to understand a lot of what I say to them and communications with the ISP don't seem to be brilliant which isn't very helpful to the engineer. I haven't yet had a female BT engineer. Occasionally I have put AA staff on the phone to try and help the BT engineer a bit if the engineer seems short of details.

Offers of tea and coffee always get turned down, probably because they have already had a dozen such already.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: burakkucat on May 05, 2018, 12:17:17 AM
. . . and communications with the ISP don't seem to be brilliant which isn't very helpful to the engineer.

b*cat opens a sleepy eye, wide, and muses "Could that be a criticism of A&A?"  :o
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: Weaver on May 05, 2018, 12:25:55 AM
@Burakkucat - could be, not sure - the system doesn't seem very joined up in that the engineer often doesn't seem to have too much information. But that doesn't tell me where things could be improved.

AA are definitely not completely perfect. That would be weird. They have quite a lot of work on their plates. But there are actual humans about, thatís what makes it good.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on May 10, 2018, 12:03:14 PM
Update on the line.

BTOR come out (Sent Over ground engineer instead of a UG one), whom did his tests PQ test past (Like always) but other tests failed so he went of to CAB17 then after a while rung back to say he swapped legs as one leg was burnt (Which makes me wonder what caused it).

The line has now been reset to 6DB Fast uncapped upstream as of today so will be running my monitoring Raspi once i have remade the SD-Card. No more noise on the line plus as a bonus new faceplate NTE5C and test socket.

At some stage i will upload my setup script in the forum for Headless Wireless/Wired Raspi with RDP (so you can use Windows Remote Desktop) access on here to update what was made on GitHub 3 years ago.

As it does everything for you in one clean .sh file.

Will update the thread after i have tested for a few days lets just hope DLM will be happy and put me back to 3db SNR on downstream.

Edit: My DSLStats Raspi is up link in signature. It might be slow as the QOS setting for that device is set to 64kbps up and 128kbps down.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on June 04, 2018, 03:47:54 PM
@burakkucat @NewtronStar @Weaver

Seems the Internet gods hate me again, Just rebooted my router after rebooting my Raspi Monitor (Like stats to tie correctly) and the line was stable at 6db on the downstream 1 hour later it looks like my SNR has taken a major dump its in the 1.5-1.9db range from nowhere (Currently showing on my Web Monitor which is linked in my Signature). Before the reboot the SNR on the Downstream was 7.2db.

I have also noticed that the Dip's i have been seeing on the Upstream is tied to BTOR working in the cab.
Now it seems that the SNR is not recovering at all right now the line is erroring out like no tomorrow, i have checked the Line using the number ending 70 and performed a QLN little clicks on the line again with some slight noise.

So would the last fault be returning? can't do anything right now as i am getting ready to go under on the operating slab and to be slightly honest i am getting abit of a CBA attitude now with the line due to the stress its causing having to bash my head against the brick wall.

Will keep my Raspi Webserver going for a few days see how it goes but if someone can have a look would be grateful.

I know i can reboot the router and it will more then likely go back to 6db however i know with what its doing now its going to kill my speed and more likely band the profile.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2018, 06:18:53 PM
Hmm . . .

I don't like all those CRCs without any FECs, it seems as if your circuit is on fast-path. Ah, yes, the Stats Summary confirms it --

Interleave depth:          1      1

Your synchronisation speed is reasonable --

Connection speed (kbps):   7995      1088

I have also noticed that the Dip's i have been seeing on the Upstream is tied to BTOR working in the cab.
Now it seems that the SNR is not recovering at all right now the line is erroring out like no tomorrow, i have checked the Line using the number ending 70 and performed a QLN little clicks on the line again with some slight noise.

So would the last fault be returning?

That does appear to be the case. If it is not the original fault reappearing then it is another one developing. I would not expect normal day-to-day activity in the PCP, by Openreach, to cause a disturbance to your circuit . . . unless there is a problem with the jumpering (between the E- & D-sides) for your circuit.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on June 04, 2018, 09:56:28 PM
It's down even lower now 0.8db SNR on downstream. I guess i will have to put up with it till after my operation as i need to keep my stress levels down as much as possible.

Beside that DLM will kick in soon no doubt and force a resync to a much lower profile.
Although during gaming session tonight and with my father on Youtube watching stuff not had a hickup or lag spike, or anything like lag from packetloss which is strange.

Yes i am on fastpath will always be on that as i am a gamer and every ms counts.
As for the PcP bit, its a bird nest in Cab17 where i am connected to. I have seen it and a few engineers have said a few words when i tell them i am connected via cab17 which is not for this forum.

Anyhows thanks for your reply @burakkucat i am grateful for them.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: burakkucat on June 04, 2018, 10:40:18 PM
I guess i will have to put up with it till after my operation as i need to keep my stress levels down as much as possible.

Hope all goes well for you.

It is not worth letting a faulty xDSL service interfere with your health.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on June 05, 2018, 03:54:09 PM
Changed from ADSL2+ to ADSL2 to see if that would make a difference, it hasn't went from 6DB to 3DB and if it's anything like last night it will end up at -0.7DB.

Thanks for your wishes as well @burakkucat this faulty line has been interfering with my health for near gone 10 years. Still the same issues or there about. To be honest all fixes on this line there has been quite a few have been temp fixes as it doesn't take long for the issue to return.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: Weaver on June 05, 2018, 04:23:57 PM
@Hacktrix - would it be worth having a no-commitment chat with AA perhaps? (aa.net.uk) Might that be a way to get the cavalry in to help you?

What do other Kitizens think?
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: hacktrix2006 on June 05, 2018, 04:52:32 PM
@Weaver not sure what your saying bud. I have looked into AA however usage cap's when i checked was 100GB so a long time ago.

However i very much doubt that BTOR will do anything more then they are doing now, i have been with several ISP's the current one pushed further then the rest however stopped for some reason not sure why.

The only time anything got done with solving anything was the last time a BTOR Area Manager came out which got the line from the drop box (UG bit) to the premise replaced as the line had it and was corroded.

That took a lot of stink from my end and a lot of stress which nearly put me into hospital so i can not go down that route again due to my health.

The fact is the line from the end of the close i am in goes from copper to Aluminum all the way to the cabinet to which then from the cab to exchange is on some very very old copper (where lots of work has been done in the road near where the ducts are and i can be sure contractors have hit it and hid it).

The only thing i can do is wait till FTTP has 100% UK coverage and hope.

As constantly ringing any ISP nowadays is like banging your head against a brick wall at times having to redo tests that have already been done before contacting them, then to go past the it must be your equipment stage (to then explain tested x amount of routers with same issue).

Its all adding to the stress levels, i have already had a mini TIA and do not want another.
Title: Re: ADSL Line Fault
Post by: Weaver on June 05, 2018, 06:10:04 PM
@hacktrix FYI I am an AA user (and there are one or two more kitizens who are too) and I don't have any usage cap. I pay for what I use and there is no limit of any kind. I just suggested it because people claim that AA is relatively speaking ferocious at fighting with BT on behalf of customers. Some users buy a certain amount of download allowance and then top up if necessary. They have a 1TB download pm pre-purchase deal and there are various other deals. I don't recall all the details.

Also AA used to have a fix your line or your money back deal for people with problems, but I don't know whether that is still going. It doesn't cost anything to talk to them about your problems anyway. They are very approachable and are in IRC, SMS, web-based chat email of course. Only you know if they might be a good fit for you. Their IRC channel is full of other customers as well who are very helpful, not just highly techie staff.