Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: sotonsam on April 13, 2018, 06:17:55 PM
-
Hi All,
I've been more than happy with my FTTC Infinity 2 connection over the years, I haven't dropped below 66mb in the 3 to 4 years I've had it, and my upload is always 20mb.
Obviously things are changing and I'm finding there's a little more demand for speed in my house, so my ears poked up when I heard about the g.fast opportunities. I understand it can go up to 330mb and 50mb down based on your closeness to the cab which is fair enough. I'm no more than 150m away, I can see it out of my window.
So I was a bit surprised when I just ran a checker on my number to see that g.fast is planned, but the speeds look a little lower than I was hoping for - the upload is estimated as being a touch lower than what I have now?
(https://image.ibb.co/mxXsrn/gfast.jpg)
So, when it says planned - what does that mean? Are we a few months away from seeing it available? And given what I currently get with my Infinity 2 product, do you think those estimations are a little under estimated? What is it basing it on out of interest?
I actually put my neighbour’s number in who is 2 doors down from me (Further away from the cab), it says they're on the same cab as me but they are estimated to get in the 250+mb bracket. So I’m a tad confused!
-
One thing you need to remember is that G.Fast doesn't use the same frequencies as ADSL or VDSL, it starts just above the VDSL frequency range. Higher frequencies don't travel so far, so you get less range, hence why you have a lower estimate upload speed. Of course in reality it could be higher, or could be lower.
Have you considered that your phone line may run in the opposite direction away from the cabinet and then double back, hence why your neighbour who's further away has a higher estimate - his line could well be shorter.
Also the estimates do seem to rather hit and miss and the moment, a bit like the estimates for VDSL were when it first came out, only trying it will really tell how well it performs.
As for how long before you can get it, well that's anyone's guess. At a guess I would say months away, some places have had G.Fast pods for months and are still not live as they need another link installed at the exchange to handle the extra capacity and speed, which can take a long time to be installed for whatever reasons.
PS. Welcome to the forums.
-
Cheers for the reply and welcome!
So many variables to concider! And true, my neighbour could do a shorter distance. I guess I'll just sit tight and wait and see what happens. I've been offered a couple of good deals with Virgin Media, my contract with BT is up next year so I'll see what happens. My need for extra speed my mean I have to jump ship....
-
Given the choice I'd go with G.fast if the speeds we're reasonable, but I'm too far for G.Fast, and my lines not good quality for VDSL either so that's not fast enough on the upload side, so I've jumped ship and just signed up with VM as they've just deployed FTTP in our area. Just keeping my :fingers: that there are no problems given their history.
-
It kind of makes me smile watching members move into 21st century Broadband with VM cable & FTTP and also G.FAST, while I have only 3 FTTC cabinets close to my premises and each one is nearly 1Km apart it's almost like a Rural situation yet 800 meters away is a densely populated urban area with VM though have not seen any PCP cabinet with a G.fast pod bolted on in North Down.
-
I certainly have the same question as @sotonsam has asked in regards to when to expect it in my area. I was going to create a topic here a few weeks ago but I thought I would chip now in as it's relevant.
According to Connecting Britain with ultrafast Gfast technology (https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/gfast-factsheet-16102017.pdf?sfvrsn=66d7b160_2 (https://www.homeandbusiness.openreach.co.uk/docs/default-source/default-document-library/gfast-factsheet-16102017.pdf?sfvrsn=66d7b160_2)) on page 3 it says:
"It typically takes us about three months to plan and build Gfast services in a new location."
Though, considering the amount of variables when it comes to rolling out, it could take longer since they may need to re-shell the cabinet before they can bolt the pod on, run additional links to the exchange or there may be issues in relation to the space available to place the pod (in which case, I cannot be sure of the resolution since I do not know if they use standalone pods).
Just like with @sotonsam, it has been showing as "planned" on my cabinet. In fact, it has been since last month with the clean range virtually maxed out and the impacted still looking quite nice (still estimated above 260/26 DS/US impacted). The line is under 200m (it's almost direct from the cabinet) though I am most concerned about the aluminium present which may present high attenuation at the very high freqencies which are utilised with G.fast. Not every cabinet has it planned in this area from what I can see, but the ones which are planned have yet to see a G.fast pod since none of them - at present - have one. Some cabinets may even need a re-shell to accomodate the pod.
I have tried to contact the Openreach Fibre Enquiries email for information regarding the rollout in my area, but without success (seems like they do not respond to emails there, or at least in my case). :(
I have also contacted two ISPs so far to see if they could query for additional information: Pulse8 and uno.
The former does not currently offer G.fast, so they said they cannot query about availability yet. But seeing as TalkTalk Business have started trialing it and will have a commercial launch this summer (see https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/04/isp-talktalk-business-confirm-330mbps-uk-g-fast-broadband-trial.html (https://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2018/04/isp-talktalk-business-confirm-330mbps-uk-g-fast-broadband-trial.html)) then I can see resellers such as Pulse8 having access to this technology pretty soon (or rather I should say that I have been told that Pulse8 should be trialing it in a few months).
The latter currently has an ongoing pilot, though they have basically stated that there is no way for them to get any information from Openreach regarding the rollout above what the checker says or what they publish on their own site.
I have even contacted someone (would rather not give out the name) at thinkbroadband to see if they could query Openreach for information in this area, but they stated that their focus is on FTTC/FTTP (and currently not G.fast) in areas where ADSL-based services were previously the best service. I can respect and understand this.
So I am at a dead end for getting any additional information for my cabinet currently. :wall:
@sotonsam: in reference to your situation, as @Ronski has said, the estimates for G.fast are a bit hit and miss. From what I can gather, until the pod is installed with lines connected and collecting data then the estimates may be very wild. The situation was and is true with FTTC (VDSL) also.
My questions for you, @sotonsam, are:
- Do any of the cabinets in your area have a G.fast pod installed?
- Do you have access to your router (line) statistics?
I apologise that I have not uploaded or linked any images of a G.fast pod. But I do not have any that I have taken myself and I do not want to hotlink or upload without the permission of the photographer. A quick Google will show you what a pod looks like just in case you have not seen one before.
Having access to your line statistics from your router (specficially attenuation) should be able to guage the approximate distance from the cabinet. It won't give you exact figures since that is impossible with the many variables that need to be taken into account. Or you could wait until the pod is enabled on your cabinet and order to find out the actual speeds. :)
-
a relatives cab took several months to go live after the pod was fitted. I guess no one really knows how long it's going to take. just have to keep on checking. I would imagine the time to go live will speed up eventually as more kit gets installed etc.
-
I personally do not have a lot of confidence that my area will be able to get it any time soon. Seems fairly unlikely that this place will be included in the "10 million by 2020" target, but that's just the pessimism. ;D Though it is not baseless pessimism considering FTTC (VDSL) was not available until 2016 as part of BDUK. Though hopefully it will be different this time considering it is a commercial rollout from Openreach themselves.
@skyeci: Just out of interest, if you are aware, was G.fast showing as planned on your relative's cabinet much before the pod was fitted? It has been almost a month since it has popped up on the checker for myself but I have not witnessed any works nearby as of yet.
I crave more information as I am basically drooling for that ultrafast speed without the need for bonding. It's like a drug; gotta go faster ... put the bits directly into my veins. Or just drink until I topple over. :drunk:
Maybe it's time to seek help for such an addiciton... the need for speed. :help:
-
it was in one of the trial areas I believe so probably had different criteria. even so it took a very very long time to go live...I had no previous info apart from the day I happened to pass it the contractor was there fitting it...
-
My daughter is in one of the pilot trial areas and its been 'available' on the checker for months.
They actually have an order placed for g.fast (or rather the order was placed in Feb) but they still aren't live. I'm getting information 3rd or 4th hand so I don't know how accurate the info is, but they are waiting on the provision of more bandwidth capacity. From what I can gather it sounds like the ISP (despite them having their own LLU in the exchange) may be provisioning g.fast using BTw.
What I'm saying is that if you have areas whereby it is showing as available and has been for months and those EU's are still not live, then I hardly think you are going to get any dates for areas which are marked as 'planned'.
-
I actually put my neighbour’s number in who is 2 doors down from me (Further away from the cab), it says they're on the same cab as me but they are estimated to get in the 250+mb bracket. So I’m a tad confused!
As Ronski says, estimates will depend upon the length of the d-side. You can have someone next door who will get different speeds to you and that will entirely depend on their length of cable from the DP.
When I looked at the estimations for my daughters neighbours and plotted it against where the DP's where.. then a pattern emerged and it became logical why neighbours in the same street would get different speeds. Its not distance from the cabinet, but also distance from the DP and JB which determine what speed you will get. If the DP is right outside your house, then of course you will get better speeds than someone who may have an additional 20,30,40m of cable from the pole. It's easier to spot with overhead cables, but exactly the same theory will apply with UG JB's
That post where I compared connection speed estimates to the DP location are can be viewed here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,21048.msg367797.html#msg367797). When plotted like that it immediately becomes clear that its the houses with a DP right outside that are the ones getting the best estimates.
-
Appreciate all the input in here, and it does sound like plenty have similar questions!
@re0, to respond to you..
There is no pod installed on my cab, in fact the original PCP cab looks like something from the 80's/70's, very old styled one. Will prob need plenty of work on it before it can even be ready one assumes. It looks like this...
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.robertos.me.uk%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fdb_images%2Fdb_20110708_0036.jpg&hash=be827f7a6f6c20548d794dabcd030d570b752972)
I don't actually have access to my line stats as I don't use any Hubs....I've still got the original Open reach modem drilled into a virtual firewall I run (pfSense), that works for me quite well, but obviously I lose the ability to see any stats..! If anyone has any recommendations for another VDSL modem that I can run in bridge mode and see the stats then I'd appreciate that.
-
. . . in fact the original PCP cab looks like something from the 80's/70's, very old styled one.
That type of cast-iron primary cross-connection cabinet is as originally used by the GPO in the late 1940s - 1960s. The cabinets installed in the 1970s or 1980s are significantly different.
I've still got the original Open reach modem drilled into a virtual firewall I run (pfSense), that works for me quite well, but obviously I lose the ability to see any stats.
The Openreach branded Huawei HG612 modem can provide the circuit statistics via its LAN2 port . . . as long as it has been updated with the most recent, unlocked, firmware image.
-
I've got an ECI modem unfortuntley. And an ECI cab.
-
I've got an ECI modem unfortuntley. And an ECI cab.
Don't be bothered about the cabinet, just pretend that you do not know the manufacturer of the electronics contained therein and then source a Huawei HG612 for use on your circuit.
-
I'm using an HG612 along with PFsense, some find the Zyxel modems give better performance, on my line DS was better but US was worse, so I went back to the HG612. I'm also on an ECI cab.
-
@sotonsam:
Now there's a sight I am all too familiar with! I am surprised that there are so many of these shells still existing (I guess that just demonstrates its build quality). It will be sad to see them go out of service when G.fast is rolled out. :(
An HG612 unlocked may be a good if you want to view and collect stats on your line's performance (once unlocked, which is a somewhat easy task with plenty of documentation). You can typically find them used on the bay for under £10 posted. I personally bought a version 1 Billion BiPac 8800NL to use as a modem with PPPoE bridging, and you can almost always pick up used for under £25 as an auction including delivery (sometimes under £20 if you're lucky). I just plug an Ethernet cable into one of the other ports of the router from another NIC on my PC to retrieve the stats from Web UI, Telnet and SSH.
Probably may be better and cheaper options to pick up a modem, but for me the v1 8800NL is stable and has a decent Broadcom chipset. And if my main router dies or has issues, I can use the routing and wireless capabilities on the 8800NL as a fallback.
-
Thanks all.
Have ordered myself a cheap HG612, will see how that works for me. Will be interested to see the stats...so I'll share these once I've got it connected up.
-
Just in preparation for when you receive it, you can find information regarding unlocking the HG612 here on the kitz site: http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm)
I am not sure if it includes all the most up-to-date information and links to resources (since it was lasted updated 03/15), though I can imagine that not much has changed in the way of firmware for this device since then (and if I have missed something then someone will certainly post it here).
-
You're correct. Nothing much has changed. F/w is still the same and the following pages should contain the latest info
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612hacking.htm
-
I don't want to hijack the thread, but I though I'd just update it in reference to what I found out in relation to G.fast in my area.
I spoke to engineer locally who was working at the cabinet (I hope I didn't disturb him too much). From what I have been told, no engineers in my area are trained for G.fast and he is unaware of any plans to roll it out in the near future. So, at least in my case, I imagine it could be near the end of the year at the earliest before any rollout commences. :'( Though, while my dreams of having an ultrafast connection any time soon have been crushed, I am not really surprised that it is not happening soon.
-
Lack of training could explain why Openreach aren't doing the work in my area.
G.FAST pods are being installed & connected up by Kelly Communications, my local pod was connected to the exchange a few weeks ago.
Unfortunately the engineers couldn't say when the exchange would 'go live', so I'm keeping an eye on the BT Checker (which is showing 'planned' at the moment).
-
Lack of training could explain why Openreach aren't doing the work in my area.
G.FAST pods are being installed & connected up by Kelly Communications, my local pod wad connected to the exchange a few weeks ago.
Unfortunately the engineers couldn't say when the exchange would 'go live', so I'm keeping an eye on the BT Checker (which is showing 'planned' at the moment).
Though I doubt (and I could be wrong) it will be down to lack of training but rather ensuring there is enough capacity in terms of links from the exchange.
At least the cabinets in your area have the pods installed! I haven't seen a single pod here yet.
-
I don't want to hijack the thread, but I though I'd just update it in reference to what I found out in relation to G.fast in my area.
I spoke to engineer locally who was working at the cabinet (I hope I didn't disturb him too much). From what I have been told, no engineers in my area are trained for G.fast and he is unaware of any plans to roll it out in the near future. So, at least in my case, I imagine it could be near the end of the year at the earliest before any rollout commences. :'( Though, while my dreams of having an ultrafast connection any time soon have been crushed, I am not really surprised that it is not happening soon.
It's crazy how backwards the broadband infrastructure is in this country. G.Fast for many will be quite a minimal increase, so having to wait so long just seems crazy. The doors opening for Virgin Media...
-
That's even if you have g.fast pods, not all FTTC areas will get them.
-
That's even if you have g.fast pods, not all FTTC areas will get them.
Even if you have G.fast pods activated on your cabinet, chances are that if you're further than around 400 meters from the cabinet there will be next to no benefit over VDSL (FTTC) services or it won't be available to you at all.
-
I've not noticed any pods in Thanet, and as I'm around 450 meters from my cabinet it won't make any difference anyway, also I'm moving to Virgin.
-
But what about the wonderful pricing of FTTPoD? :P
-
With no ducts on the estate (well unless they've installed any since it was built), certainly no aggregation nodes, so in excess of 500 meters I considered it not even worthwhile my time enquiring let alone the expense :lol: Good job VM decided to install fibre to my front door, lets just hope its reliable :fingers:
-
:fingers: no network congestion/horrible latency issues then. Otherwise you'll be crawling back to FTTC (assuming you are on it). :P
-
I'd like to see the BT/OR paper that says they are going to make a profit with G.fast pods attached to cabinets.
-
Even if you have G.fast pods activated on your cabinet, chances are that if you're further than around 400 meters from the cabinet there will be next to no benefit over VDSL (FTTC) services or it won't be available to you at all.
in my own personal case I am literally right at the edge of the coverage on my cabinet at just under 400m so yes for me its of no real benefit, but even if I was closer there is no pod anyway. :(
-
:fingers: no network congestion/horrible latency issues then. Otherwise you'll be crawling back to FTTC (assuming you are on it). :P
Yes but on ECI with a very high probability of alluminum lines, at least if I come back I should end up on the Huawei twin cab. At just over 450 meters I get around 47/7
-
Worth noting however that my connection not only "feels" more responsive using the ECI modem with the ECI cabinet but I get an extra megabit or two downstream. Everyones mileage varies it seems.
I only recently put my HG612 back because I wanted to see if my stats had changed.
Saying that, I'm getting the lowest pings I have ever seen on this connection right now on the HG612.
-
in my own personal case I am literally right at the edge of the coverage on my cabinet at just under 400m so yes for me its of no real benefit, but even if I was closer there is no pod anyway. :(
Everyone's mileage may vary, but I imagine that distance would be somewhat less with aluminium or with 0.4mm gauge cabling as opposed to 0.5mm gauge (aka TP-100). I am almost 100% that I have aluminium at 0.4mm on my connection (the worst of both worlds) so even at under 200 meters the higher frequencies may suffer a lot from attenuation on G.fast.
Yes but on ECI with a very high probability of alluminum lines, at least if I come back I should end up on the Huawei twin cab. At just over 450 meters I get around 47/7
That downstream is actually OK considering the distance and if it is really aluminium, but that upstream is damn awful! I imagine the lack of 3 dB profile and G.INP probably didn't help on ECI otherwise it probably would a lot closer to the mid-to-high 50s on the downstream.
Worth noting however that my connection not only "feels" more responsive using the ECI modem with the ECI cabinet but I get an extra megabit or two downstream. Everyones mileage varies it seems.
I only recently put my HG612 back because I wanted to see if my stats had changed.
Saying that, I'm getting the lowest pings I have ever seen on this connection right now on the HG612.
Perhaps you were using a different DNS service or maybe there were DNS issues when you last used the HG612? :hmm: In the past, especially with ISP-supplied DNS, I have found that it sometimes takes time to resolve IP addresses which impacts the responsiveness. But an extra megabit is an extra megabit.
-
That downstream is actually OK considering the distance and if it is really aluminium, but that upstream is damn awful! I imagine the lack of 3 dB profile and G.INP probably didn't help on ECI otherwise it probably would a lot closer to the mid-to-high 50s on the downstream.
I was the first on the cabinet back in August 2012, download has never been great, mostly sub 50Mbps speeds, briefly I've had as high as 60 IIRC, but have had as low as 38
Upload started around 12Mbps and has gradually dropped, has been as low as 6. Used to use a Zyxel which gives a nice improvement on downstream but loses some on the upstream so went back to the hg612 to gain a bit of upstream speed.
I did have G.inp when it first rolled out and it worked a treat, can't remember the specifics though.
-
re0 I also have 50 or so of ali, the last 50m run to the pole is ali.
But given the copper is only 0.2, the ali I believe is no worse than the copper on my run as its 3x as thick.
-
I was the first on the cabinet back in August 2012, download has never been great, mostly sub 50Mbps speeds, briefly I've had as high as 60 IIRC, but have had as low as 38
Upload started around 12Mbps and has gradually dropped, has been as low as 6. Used to use a Zyxel which gives a nice improvement on downstream but loses some on the upstream so went back to the hg612 to gain a bit of upstream speed.
I did have G.inp when it first rolled out and it worked a treat, can't remember the specifics though.
Out of interest, when was G.inp attempted to be rolled out to ECI? then subsequently pulled again...
Only reason I ask is that around 5 or so months ago my connection sync increased to 74Mb, from 63........I thought that was impressive, best I've had, including latency which dropped by about 5ms. But no more than a week or so later it must have reync'd at some point and I was back to 63 as my IP profile.
I’m wondering if during that week I was experiencing G.inp….
-
first few weeks, April 2016!
-
first few weeks, April 2016!
Quite unbelievable really when you think about it. Did anyone actually post to these forums saying they had problems when Ginp was enabled for them glorious few weeks? I wonder what percent of end users would actually have a problem? I wish someone would ask BT what is their Plan Z for when ECI ginp fails (again)? Are they going to replace with Huawei cabinets?
-
first few weeks, April 2016!
Interesting, wonder what made my line fly up a few months back then!
It is pretty staggering how slow BTopenreach are, given that something like g.inp is quite a marginal boost...but even that's taking a while. I think I'll be with VM before g.fast is alive! VM will probably be offering 500mb by then as well....
It's frustrating as my area VM Wise has alrways been pretty overcrowded, so I had noise issues when I had them before (having attenuators on the superhubs around here is a given). It's all laid over the top of the exNTL/Videotron network. That's why I prefer BT in the sense that I get what I pay for, but it's just incredibly frustrating that it's so behind the times in the sense of speed avaliable.
-
Did anyone actually post to these forums saying they had problems when Ginp was enabled for them glorious few weeks?
Yes there was a few.
-
But given the copper is only 0.2, . . .
Are you absolutely sure? :-\ As far as I can recall, the minimum copper diameter is 0.4mm.
-
I cannot be 100% sure, but it is from 2 sources, one from who works for openreach, the other from a database that used to be publicly accessible that showed lengths of D and E sides, but it also showed gauge of the cables.
Yes you will hear odd comments on forums suggesting there is barely any ali in use and that all copper is at least 0.4, but I think they just paint a rosier picture than the reality, my area was built up during the days of copper shortages.
-
Absolute fact .... the smallest of all gauges in 0.32.
-
PS ................ we don't have ANY aluminium in the network ..... only silver copper. ;)
-
Interesting, wonder what made my line fly up a few months back then!
Most likely crosstalk - someone goes on holiday, turns their modern off. When they come back they turn it on again.
-
Most likely crosstalk - someone goes on holiday, turns their modern off. When they come back they turn it on again.
Damn them!
Ok, so I've got the modem and have unlocked it now. It's actually dropped my sync rate by 1mb, but no big deal. Here are some stats -
(https://image.ibb.co/hrJ9gn/pb_Params_20180418_1835.jpg)
(https://image.ibb.co/dhKqMn/profile_20180418_1835.jpg)
Any feedback on these? Not entirley sure what is good or bad looking at those figures...
-
Could probably do with being in its own thread, but the most obvious bad bit is where it says ECI cabinet :(
-
It looks like the latest revision to the datasets shows plans for G.fast have been removed for my and a few other local cabinets that initially had plans. :( Well, I guess it looks like it may not be coming after all.
-
Every cabinet I know that was showing as planned is no longer showing as such. I wouldn't read too much into it.
-
Interesting.
When is G.fast supposed to be ready for customers to buy (outside of the pilot areas)?
Is there a date?
-
Never, for the people too far from their cabinet.
-
There's no date but it's already released for some people outside the pilot areas. Those areas mean precisely nothing now - much as the checker change does :)