Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: EFT on March 12, 2018, 09:30:35 AM
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Hello all,
Very occasional lurker. But since first visiting and switching to HG612 and good SP08 FW have not had any reason to.
Have had consistent line performance for past three or four years now. I get 27 down and 5.7 up.
For the past fortnight I've experienced repeated disconnects. Over the weekend my speed was down to 12 down and 244 bits up!
Have reported a noisy line and have an appointment booked.
Am guessing I need to dig out my HH5 from its box and swap out my HG612 before he/she arrives? Just checking it's the right thing to do?
Any advice gratefully appreciated.
E.
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If the line is noisy with the modem and router disconnected and the phone plugged direct in to the test socket without a filter you don't need to do anything except perhaps try a different handset.
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My question was more about whether or not the BT engineer will not like the sight of seeing my unlocked HG612 plugged in as my modem as opposed to the older supplied TR069 rebooting HH5 Type A?
That thing caused me to endure months of problems and performance - which mysteriously all went away once I read the helpful advice available on this forum.
I didn't have the time to go through the usual call centre script telling me to 'see how things are for a few days' - so reporting noise on the line seemed to get an appointment made much quicker.
Plus I am on FTTC service so I think I've posted to the wrong forum!
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If you've reported a noisy line it will be a engineer looking at a telephone fault not a broadband fault. What modem you have connected is irrelevant. In any case even if he was looking at a broadband fault he wouldn't be bothered by a HG612.
Don't forget he will be an Openreach engineer, not a BT engineer, who deals with faults for all ISPs.
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As jelv points out .....
If you have reported a noisy line, your service provider will perform an electrical line test on the pair of wires that run from the Tel Exchange to your premises.
It depends on what this test result reveals as to how the task should progress ??
I haven't time to go through all scenario's, but I can tell you that if the test is LTOK (Line Tests OK), then a 'Voice only' engineer will turn up at your premises and perform three of his own tests that your service provider will also have vision of ....
1) Eclipse/Fast Test 2 - basically a remote test exactly like your service provider carried out when you spoke with them.
2) PQT (Pair Quality Test) - basically a test of the pair of wires but more in-depth.
3) QLT (Quiet Line Test) - basically, listening to an automated voice service to ascertain if there is any audible noise on the line.
If any one of the 3 tests fail, then subsequent action should be taken to repair the issue. If they all pass, then someone has to pay the bill for us turning up ??!!.
So, long story short ............ I hope it is an actual audible noisy line you have. :)
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Thanks for the response Black Sheep really appreciated.
I have got noise on the line - and I suspect it's giving me broadband problems. I live in a very remote spot with abnormal weather conditions.
I've also go no problem with paying the bills for people turning up.
My connection has got worse in the past two weeks. I've been working away from home so have not been able to monitor it like I would be able to at other times of the year. It's a busy period in my industry.
I'm not a knocker of BT or OR as I often see others do. It looks like a profession with its own set of difficult challenges at times.
I don't think there's an issue with my equipment or internal wiring - as nothing has changed there in the past five years or so.
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I don't think there's an issue with my equipment or internal wiring - as nothing has changed there in the past five years or so.
Ensure that the audible noise is still present with all of your equipment disconnected and just a classic wired telephone connected to the "test socket".
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Thanks.
I managed to leave work early today. I've just done the 'quiet line test' with my ancient wired phone. There's a crackling on the dial tone. I'm not great with words, but it sounds like a crisp packet a little bit. Should it be totally silent and clear?
I mostly make video calls via laptop these days so not used to hearing that dial tone at all really.
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'Quiet Line Test' shouldn't have crackling noises. It should be quiet.
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this is what my HG612 log is showing me. Can't even set the date via Terminal on OSX! Tsk!
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I've just done the 'quiet line test' with my ancient wired phone. There's a crackling on the dial tone. I'm not great with words, but it sounds like a crisp packet a little bit. Should it be totally silent and clear?
There shouldn't be any "crisp packet" noises. So I'm fairly confident that there is a line fault.
I forgot to mention the quiet-line test that you could do (with a BT Wholesale based service) -- make a (free) call to 17070, listen to the menu that is offered and take the relevant option. You should hear total silence; no crackles, buzz, hum, crosstalk, etc.
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Thanks for the response Black Sheep really appreciated.
I have got noise on the line - and I suspect it's giving me broadband problems. I live in a very remote spot with abnormal weather conditions.
I've also go no problem with paying the bills for people turning up.
My connection has got worse in the past two weeks. I've been working away from home so have not been able to monitor it like I would be able to at other times of the year. It's a busy period in my industry.
I'm not a knocker of BT or OR as I often see others do. It looks like a profession with its own set of difficult challenges at times.
I don't think there's an issue with my equipment or internal wiring - as nothing has changed there in the past five years or so.
I appreciate your comments, EFT.
I absolutely understand people having issues with a paid-for-service, I would myself ....... but there's some folk in life who either get a kick out of complaining, are professional internet trolls or just like stirring the sh1t-pot for the hell of it.
This takes the shine somewhat of the genuine folk with genuine faults.
There is a 'Cone of Acceptance' that engineering faults-men have to work to regarding the quality of the 'pair of wires', and I reckon most faults will be picked up and dealt with, within this CoA.
The problem arises when our tests pass within this CoA but either miss an intermittent fault, or the fault itself isn't 'developed' enough to detect whilst on-site.
However, the customer with broadband monitoring software would notice it as errors or interleaving applied on their broadband circuit.
There has to be a line drawn in the sand as to how much time can be spent on this kind of thing, and the debate has been done to death previously.
So going back to your issue, there's wise words above from burakkucat about using the test socket with a corded telephone, as opposed to a wireless phone, and if the audible noise is still present then a) You are covered by your rental payments, and b) Audible noise will have an effect on your broadband performance.
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Couple of other posts made whilst I penned the above.
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Thanks to everyone who has read my post and offered their thoughts.
There is noise on the quiet line test so it looks like there is a fault. I'll wait and see what the engineer reports.
I dug out my ancient HH5A and looked up how to reconnect it. It's been a few years since I've done so, and I recognise I just don't have the time to spend on stuff like this anymore - what with having young kids around these days.
My HH5A was up for about ten minutes before it reset itself with what I think was the "TR069" "4 value change" error. I read somewhere this issue was fixed with a later Hub revision. But I remember it causing me serious headaches and time several years ago.
My HG612 with SP08 FW has been rock solid for *a long time* now - last year I think I got around 340 days uptime before we suffered a power cut in the local area.
Everything has been fine until a few weeks ago. This coincides with the recent spate of poor weather.
Also would like to ask about this:
What's the latest on being able to order FTTP? The BT Wholesale checker gives me the "available to order" line - but when I looked into ordering that product two years ago I was told it wasn't possible to order at all. I'm 775m away from my cabinet.
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Does the checker say FTTP or FTTPoD? There is a huge difference in the cost.
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It's the Pod variety.
I'd been told that they weren't offering that product anymore. IIRC OR would cough up a certain amount of the install cost and I would cough the rest AND have to sign up for a 3 yr contract. But it was a few years back and my memory sure isn't what it used to be!
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And while we're at it - I just fired up Terminal and found the 'linestats' command. Please see attached...
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I dug out my ancient HH5A and looked up how to reconnect it. It's been a few years since I've done so, and I recognise I just don't have the time to spend on stuff like this anymore - what with having young kids around these days.
My HH5A was up for about ten minutes before it reset itself with what I think was the "TR069" "4 value change" error.
It could well be that the TR069 messages are to do with the modem checking for and downloading/installing newer firmware (hence the reboot) something it may have to do multiple times given you haven't used it for so long
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Attached is a grab from my HG612. I set the clock on it at 2020pm last night. The grab shows all the disconnects I have had since then.
I need help with the appropriate terminology really. Is this a disconnection or a loss of sync? They look like such short periods of time to me. And I've not seen anything like this in six or seven years really.
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Latest update for me - connection drops when the phone rings and I answer a landline call. Plus the noise seems much worse this morning.
engineer coming this afternoon.
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Is it just the ringing that does it or is it only when you answer? If it is the former does it still happen even when there is no phone plugged in?
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You have a defective joint in the circuit. A joint that is either semi-conductive or HR (high resistance). The audible noise and the loss of modem synchronisation when answering an incoming call are classic, "smoking gun", symptoms.
Your screen-scrapes show the modem re-training, following a loss of synchronisation with the cabinet based DSLAM.
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The engineer was a professional helpful guy. He called it "a fault that won't show itself/intermittent" where the dial tone would disappear and then return.
He traced the error back to my cabinet and will return there first thing to work on it. He also thinks another line is connected with mine as he heard my line still ringing when it should not have.
A good BT repair experience then and will report back when the fault is hopefully resolved tomorrow.
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Progress has been made. :)
I wonder why he was not able to finished the task today?
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He said yesterday there was too much foot traffic at the cab location for him to work safely. The nearby School was emptying out.
He was back onsite at 8am this morning. I knew my line was on and off from that time as my alarm system makes a few noises when there is no monitoring connection.
He just called me to let me know the problem was fixed. The line was clear again with no crackling in the background.
He said there was a break in the cable under the main road next to the cabinet. He moved me to a different cable.
I will monitor the line and the HG612 for the next 24 hours and see if I can beat last years record of 340 odd days of uptime.
Thanks to all of you for your helpful comments and assistance. It really is very much appreciated.
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Attached are my latest grabs.
Shows I had another disconnection of less that thirty seconds just after 10AM.
Any further thoughts appreciated...
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You know that the HG612 stats pages are Not to be relied !.
Install DSLstats and put some graphs up.
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No I didn't. As I said before, I haven't really had to think about the modem and the connection in years. It's been rock solid for a long time now. I'd take a look after a power cut but that's it.
I'm not familiar with DSLStats as I didn't have a Windows machine until last year.
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I'm not familiar with DSLStats as I didn't have a Windows machine until last year.
DSLStats will run on Windows, Linux or a dedicated Raspberry Pi version, see Roseway's, Eric's site here:
http://dslstats.me.uk/
The Huawei HG612 needs to be unlocked to provide detailed stat's to DSLStats, see details here:
http://www.kitz.co.uk/routers/hg612unlock.htm
Easy to do and well worth the effort.
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Thanks!
Have downloaded and installed DSLStats. How long shall I leave it running for?
And what graphs should I post? What should I be looking out for?
Everything feels back to normal, line seems solid and no disconnects at all. No noise on the line anymore. Happy Days!
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Well done getting DSLStats running, I presume gathering stat's from your Huawei HG612 ?
You don't say what operating system DSLStats is currently running on ?
Ideally, DSLStats should be running 24/7 which is why a lot of forum members use a Raspberry Pi rather than keeping a Windows, Mac or Linux based PC running 24/7, this was certainly the case when MDWS was active, sadly, no longer in service since 12/03/18, however, a lot of the very clever forum contributors are working on alternatives to MDWS so still worthwhile considering 24/7 operation of DSLStats if possible.
Some of the better informed forum members will be able to more comprehensively advise exactly what modem parameters you should be interested in with respect to your line status, from my simplistic point of view I always monitor SNRM, ES, SES, Hlog, QLN, if you have DS G.Inp active, LEFTRS, Interleaving Depth, INP & B0-INPRein.
Look at the excellent DSL help section of the kitz site for detailed explanations of these parameters.
There are also many excellent posts on the forum regarding getting a Raspberry Pi up and running with DSLStats should you decide to go down that route, will work with virtually any model of RPi, I use an old Mk.1B and have configured two RPi Zero W's for my family members, these are very cheap and very low power consumption.