Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ADSL Issues => Topic started by: freeflow on February 25, 2018, 04:11:20 PM
-
We have been problems for month now with internet/adsl disconnecting randomly and every time the phone rings. Openreach have changed many items at the exchange ,but have not fixed the problem. They have know told my service provider, who has been pressurizing openreach to fix the fault,that they( openreach want to withdraw the service/cease the line, as they can not fix the fault!Can they legal do this, leave us with no telephone and broadband and no mobile reception in a very rural hamlet? Can we not insist to keep the line running?
Any ideas welcome.
Thanks
-
My (current) understanding is --
- The braodband service: yes.
- The telephony service: no.
It might be worth your while to consult the regulator, Ofcom.
-
Seeing a redacted of personal details copy of the letter amy also through light on what actually intended. I'm wondering if the OP may be misreading, because everything before has been about internet. From the post the phone side has been working.
-
I'm wondering if the OP may be misreading, . . .
Yes, that is also my suspicion. :-\
-
Seeing a redacted of personal details copy of the letter amy also through light on what actually intended. I'm wondering if the OP may be misreading, because everything before has been about internet. From the post the phone side has been working.
Not sure what OP is,But yes the phone always works, it is just a bad line sometimes, it just broadband disconnects when phone rings and at other times. There are not many people here where we live and this happens to about 25% of subscribers according to my research. i would have thought openreach would just say we can not fix it,but you can keep the service as it is now??
Also been to ofcom website and can not find how to report it there, so any tips welcome.
at this stage i would just accept the service as it is, if they can not fix it,just want them to be straight about it.
Thanks
-
Does the letter actually say they will be terminating the phone service?
(OP = Original Poster - i.e you)
-
i have been talking with the tech team and complaints department from my service provider, about this ,on the phone and they stated that openreach has contacted them saying they will have to cease the line as they can not fix the problems due to the length of line from the exchange and any service would not be viable on the line or suported. my service provider is trying to get clarification and is not happy with openreach.
Thanks
-
As said above, why not copy the letter to us with the personal bits blotted out? Possibly your mind could be put at rest.
BTW which ISP are you under?
-
As said above, why not copy the letter to us with the personal bits blotted out? Possibly your mind could be put at rest.
BTW which ISP are you under?
Origin
This is what i got in the email "I have had a look into the fault you have raised with Origin, due to the nature of the issue this has now been sent to our Provisioning team. I've had a word with them and have agreed a callback will be made on Monday, 26/02."
Because i did not understand what they where saying i did ring them and they said on the phone and they stated that openreach has contacted them saying they will have to cease the line as they can not fix the problems due to the length of line from the exchange and any service would not be viable on the line or suported. nothing in writing
-
Send all the details you can to Clive Selley clive.selley@openreach.co.uk CEO of BTOR .
-
Thanks
-
If I were you I'd also contact OFCOM directly to raise this issue.
Stuart
-
Do Origin do phone only? If they don't it may be that Origin will be ceasing everything because of BTOR ceasing the broadband.
If that is the case the OP just needs to contact another supplier to take over the phone.
-
Is it really Openreach ceasing the broadband and not BTWholesale? The ADSL broadband equipment is operated by BTWholesale, but I suppose it might be Openreach declaring that the line can't do it.
-
This is all guess work, based on not that much information right now.
On only a few occasions have I had to send a job back as 'Long line issue', giving extensive feedback on where in the network the circuit can attain synch (ie a Carrier Pole or a Cable Joint), and beyond that point it is literally to far to support DSL.
As most posters on Kitz will be aware, if the circuit loses synch when the phone is used, there's a damn good chance there's a high-resistance fault lurking somewhere ??
What speeds were you getting before, do you know ??
How long have you had an ADSL connection ??
We really need more info than what is currently available to us I'm afraid, to be able to give opinions. :)
-
Do Origin do phone only? If they don't it may be that Origin will be ceasing everything because of BTOR ceasing the broadband.
You have a valid point there and one that makes the most sense. Origin use several suppliers, in the OP's case it looks like they are using PN. I don't think either Plusnet or Vodafone (one of their other suppliers) do landline only.
Although Origin do have their own network covering parts of Yorkshire and as such are Openreach customers... in this particular case communication may have been further complicated by the fact its Origin > PN > BTw > Openreach and why there is some confusion.
The OP may need to find a carrier who is prepared to take over landline only - such as either BT consumer or Pulse8.
----
ETA
The OP needs to ask Origin if they do WLR (Wholesale Line Rental) so they can provision phone line only services. If they don't - and I suspect they don't because I cant see anything on their site which indicates they do - then you must tell them that you do NOT want the phone line ceasing and that you wish to transfer your line to another service provider.
It's worth pointing out that cancelling broadband on a phone line may attract a cease fee. Look out for both this and any early termination fees. In this particular case you should not be responsible for a DSL cease fee.
If you do need to migrate to another carrier I'd also argue any early termination fees because this is not your fault. If Origin can't provide you with WLR, then it's up to Origin to recoup any Openreach charges and/or any fees that may be passed on by their supplier.
-
I wonder what would happen if he moved to AAISP?
-
This is all guess work, based on not that much information right now.
On only a few occasions have I had to send a job back as 'Long line issue', giving extensive feedback on where in the network the circuit can attain synch (ie a Carrier Pole or a Cable Joint), and beyond that point it is literally to far to support DSL.
As most posters on Kitz will be aware, if the circuit loses synch when the phone is used, there's a damn good chance there's a high-resistance fault lurking somewhere ??
What speeds were you getting before, do you know ??
How long have you had an ADSL connection ??
We really need more info than what is currently available to us I'm afraid, to be able to give opinions. :)
We had the line since September now, according to samknows we got 121 residential premises 25 non-residential premises on this exchange, it is only adsl standard enabled and we can only get up to 1mb download no llu service or unbundled, we just rely on oenreach equipment.Our line is 8miles long and is direct exchange connection with no cabinets in the area, we are in the Highlands.
Our broadband has been disconnecting for months now every time the phone rings and randomly at other times. we got a new face plate with filter, also plugged in router direct to test socket with new filter and no telephone or any other appliances on in the house yet when i ring my line adsl link goes down, openreach changed line card dslam (cease and re provide) still adsl disconnects, openreach even apparently checked by disconnecting the physical line at exchange and adsl still goes down when phone rings (simulated at exchange end) checked the line for high resistance and loads of other things were tested and don.most of our neighbors internet is fine, does not disconnect and the got the same length of line as us, so i do not understand why myself and some other peoples lines don't perform or stay connected
Origin said now they are prepared to let us keep the service with to fault running and i hope openreach will agree to this, but we need the broadband side of things as we do everything via the internet and the nearest shop is 30 miles away and we got no mobile reception here either and connect our mobile over the internet.
So it would be nice to get the line working for continues broadband as the speed is no issue.
-
Have a look at https://aa.net.uk/broadband-trial.html (https://aa.net.uk/broadband-trial.html)
They are more expensive but for a reason - they don't take any nonsense from OpenReach and will go the extra mile. One of the regular posters on here is on Skye and uses AAISP, again on a pretty long line. In fact he has three lines bonded together to get a decent speed. I believe at least two of them are ADSL only so no chance of phone use causing an issue.
-
Thanks will look into that ;)
-
openreach even apparently checked by disconnecting the physical line at exchange and adsl still goes down when phone rings (simulated at exchange end)
I had this exact same issue a good few years ago on a local EU's line. What a head scratcher .... actually spent two days on it with an 'assist' of another worthy engineer as well !!
It turned out to be the DSL card that was the issue.
Some wizened bod at our then 'Broadband Helpdesk' line had also experienced this happening before, and whilst co-op'ing on my particular issue, he mentioned it was indeed the same equipment he'd had trouble with before.
Here's the disappointing bit, I can't for the life in me remember what the name of the equipment (DSLAM Cards) was ?? Something like 'Fujitso 2nd generation', or Fujijenko 2nd generation' ........... all I know is that it worked a treat when moved to a different make of DSLAM card.
My particular EU was also on a longish line, though not as long as your particular circuit.
Just a thought ??.
-
There's a pretty well known issue with Marconi exchanges and users on Max Premium (faster uploads) which exhibits similar symptoms - errors rocket when there is an incoming call and usually causes a resync. The solution is to either move the line to a non-Marconi DSLAM or downgrade to standard ADSL max. This happened even when testing the the line at the exchange. My line had issues when I was syncing at full speed with plenty of noise margin to spare.
Was that the issue you were thinking of Black Sheep?
Edit: I've just looked through my old emails - in my case the solution was easy as my exchange also had Fujitsu equipment - moved my line to that and the issue vanished.
-
Put your details in Below and post (But remove any personal details !).
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/broadbandchecker.php
http://www.dslchecker.bt.com/
Not sure if you use DSLstats, if you do on the Stats page what does DSLAM/MSAN type: say?
When I had my HR joint (dry joint or bad joint) a few years ago after about 7 BTOR chaps could not find anything after weeks and weeks of problems, an email to CEO of BTOR, the next day had specialist engineer around who spent all day and then put me on another 'pair' (pair of wires) in another underground cable from the exchange, no more problems, in fact my ADSL has got better maybe as more people go on to FTTC.
-
For all the gory details of my saga see https://community.plus.net/t5/Broadband/Sync-drops-when-phone-rings-subject-was-quot-Is-this-a-record/td-p/974668 (there's a few posts from Kitz in there (towards the end). What is interesting is that there is a significant difference in the bit loading on Marconi - tones 33-36 are not used.
-
There's a pretty well known issue with Marconi exchanges and users on Max Premium (faster uploads) which exhibits similar symptoms - errors rocket when there is an incoming call and usually causes a resync. The solution is to either move the line to a non-Marconi DSLAM or downgrade to standard ADSL max. This happened even when testing the the line at the exchange. My line had issues when I was syncing at full speed with plenty of noise margin to spare.
Was that the issue you were thinking of Black Sheep?
Edit: I've just looked through my old emails - in my case the solution was easy as my exchange also had Fujitsu equipment - moved my line to that and the issue vanished.
Yes indeed ............. or at least very, very similar ...... I don't recall it being Marconi though, I'm sure it started with 'F' ?? But, you've also given the OP another angle to go from. :)
-
I don't recall it being Marconi though, I'm sure it started with 'F' ??
These are the Marconi MSANs
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitz.co.uk%2Fadsl%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2FMSAN_3.jpg&hash=ce75918f8e978ebbf5391f02878ef1267839234d)
and the Fujitsu's look like this:-
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitz.co.uk%2Fadsl%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2FDSLAM_04.jpg&hash=6f366e45f6a602452e8a720f4649062560086c36)
There's at least 2 types of Fujitsu's and how they can be kitted out
- Hub 64 or Hub 1000 switches
- LCSS-1 or IV-LCSS Line cards
- STM-1 or STM-4 to backhaul (also capable of E3).
There's several more photos of the Fujitsu's on this page here (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/telephone_exchange.htm), showing the different line cards and hubs which may be fitted in them. How they are kitted out depends on 20/21CN and number of users.
-
Just re-read your post and saw this
Something like 'Fujitso 2nd generation', or Fujijenko 2nd generation'
The Fujitsu IV-LCSS Line cards are classed as Next Generation and used for ADSL2+ & 21CN.
iirc '2nd Generation' was the Fujitsu FDX.. So Hub 64 and likely using LCSS-1 Line cards.
This is a Fujitsu FDX master control shelf using LCSS-1 Line cards, if that helps identify your culprit.
(https://forum.kitz.co.uk/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.kitz.co.uk%2Fadsl%2Fimages%2Fphotos%2FDSLAM_03.jpg&hash=5f3419ff05360b5743d2a41ed1766da015217f69)
They must be really old now, iirc BT started using the FDX's circa 2003, and were common for MaxDSL.
-
Some great information there, Kitz ... unfortunately, we don't go down to that equipment level of engineering so I have nothing to go on other than poor memory.
The more I think about it, and along with your input ..... I'm sure it was Fujitsu 2nd Gen kit ??? :)
-
How long did the ADSL service perform "OK" before these problems happened? I would have thought if the line was too long it would simply never have worked. On the other hand arguments of that nature don't seem to prevail with BT, for example (pre Max) we had 2meg fixed speed for around 18 months, then after a lightning strike and a lot of damaged equipment being replaced, it simply didn't work. BT said pretty much the same, our line was too long for 2meg, didn't care that it used to work.
-
If I've understood the OP correctly, the line was in the recent past working with no issues, and is now just about working in a fashion, and Openreach are declining to investigate further.
Is there any mileage in pursuing with Ofcom Openreach's obligations under the Universal Service Obligation? (USO (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20080712143755/http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/eu_directives/2003/uso0703.pdf))?
-
Is there any mileage in pursuing with Ofcom Openreach's obligations under the Universal Service Obligation? (USO (http://webarchive.nationalarchives.gov.uk/20080712143755/http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/publications/eu_directives/2003/uso0703.pdf))?
For the telephony service, I would say yes.