Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: adslmax on January 29, 2018, 06:46:41 PM
-
I am NOT very surprise as DLM act on my line just after 54 days stable and now DLM decided to reduced further but very strange removed G.INP but put interleaved on at 1363 against 1 :( More bad news. Can someone please explain why is this? Before interleaved was at 16 against 1 and G.INP Enabled with Sync rate of 74000. Just don't get it or don't understand why after 54 days stable.
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 27636 Kbps, Downstream rate = 83018 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69594 Kbps
Total time = 54 days 8 hours 55 min 0 sec
FEC: 22261 14773
CRC: 570 2207
ES: 11 1803
SES: 11 0
UAS: 65 54
LOS: 1 0
LOF: 7 0
LOM: 0 0
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 69594 19999
SNR margin (dB): 6.2 15.2
Power (dBm): 12.5 -1.3
Interleave depth: 1363 1
INP: 3.00 0
G.INP: Not enabled Not enabled
Vectoring status: 5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)
1st resync: 11th Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 20000
SNR margin (dB): 8.3 13.9
Power (dBm): 12.4 -0.6
Interleave depth: 8 8
INP: 46.00 47.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
2nd resync: 12th Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 73998 20000
SNR margin (dB): 10.1 14.0
Power (dBm): 12.5 -0.6
Interleave depth: 8 4
INP: 52.00 55.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
3rd resync: 22nd Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 74000 20000
SNR margin (dB): 10.0 14.4
Power (dBm): 12.4 -0.6
Interleave depth: 16 8
INP: 49.00 47.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
4th resync: 26th Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.4 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 74000 19999
SNR margin (dB): 9.9 15.1
Power (dBm): 12.5 -0.9
Interleave depth: 16 1
INP: 49.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
5th resync: 29th Jan 2018 (after 54 days stable)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 69594 19999
SNR margin (dB): 6.2 15.2
Power (dBm): 12.5 -1.3
Interleave depth: 1363 1
INP: 3.00 0
G.INP: Not Enabled Not Enabled
-
Hmmm... have you been chasing a DLM reset?
Removal of G.INP and INP 3 is default DLM setting after a reset.
I cannot see anything detrimental in your stats which would trigger INP to be applied.
-
Nope never request DLM reset. Nothing at all. I been wait and patience for 54 days stable until this now by DLM itself. :( At first I thought DLM will removed banded 74Meg and put me back on 80Meg but DLM must have laughed at me, but instead reduced further sync rate. Something is wrong with OR DLM at the cabinet.
Now, I remember PN say if the handback is below then request an engineer and reset DLM. But at the present time BT Checker say 70Meg Handback but Sync rate now sitting at 69Meg. I doubt PN will not do nothing yet.
-
What happened to your line on the 22nd. Looks like you may have picked up a new crosstalker?
Drop from 11dB to 8dB drop like that could be a sign of a new disturber being connected to your cab.
-
Few days ago I been watch SNR on the downstream was sitting at 11.4dB and then drop to 8.3dB for the last few days ago and today drop to 6.2dB. (this the first time of this lower SNR at 6dB since 2014)
I think it down to new connection at the cabinet as I saw openreach engineer enter next door neighbour today as there is new neighbour moved into next door just before xmas. Next door and mine are the same cabinet.
My throughput speed now at 60Meg :( from 75Meg to 69Meg and now 60Meg :(
-
This certainly looks like a new crosstalker. (swing between 11 and 8.3dB)
At around noon on the 22nd you lost a chunk of SNRm. Then look at those spikes on the 25th, they are typical of a disturber rebooting their router.
-
It looks like there are 2 things recently going on with your line.
1). On the 22nd you picked up a new crosstalker who has knocked 3dB off your SNRm. 3dB of SNRM is worth approx 11Mbps of speed on a line your length. There is nothing you can do about that :(
2). DLM has changed something today. Removal of G.INP and application of INP 3 is the default DLM profile. This is what your line would run at after a DLM reset.
Does anyone know if DLM decides to remove banding, does it set DLM back to default profile?
One thing I have noticed in the past.. if DLM decides to take negative action it will do so early in the morning.
Positive actions can happen much later in the day even though 6pm is rather late in the day.
No point asking PN for a GEA test as it will still show the old profile and be of no use :(
-
Thanks for useful Kit. It's a bit learning for me. Oh well. I have to leave it alone for next couple of days see what DLM will do next. One things is I never understand why removed G.INP on my cabinet? Maybe it put it back in couple of days later. Come on cabinet please enabled vectoring please.
-
I so wish there is a reliable way of getting your DLM profile. Those obtained from a GEA test always seem to show old data. I don't think this is specific to PN either as I saw someone who is with another ISP the other week also with old data :(
I'm not sure whether you should log this with PN or not.
The latest action may have taken you below your MGAL so it could be worth it for that reason.
However, its two fold.
1) If that is a crosstalker (and it looks like it may be) then you will have lost circa 10-11 Mbps from your headline speed. There is nothing you can do about that.
2) If you are on default profile then Interleaving is possibly costing you about 6-7 Mbps. I have absolutely no way of verifying this though.
I cannot see any reason why DLM would have removed G.INP and applied INP3 other than if it is going through reversal stages to remove banding.
BUT I could be wrong and don't want to falsely get your hopes up. That's why I was asking if you had sucessfully managed to get a DLM reset and also if anyone else had seen a line revert to INP3 after banding had been removed. We know for certain this is what would happen if a manual reset has been done, but because automatic changes happen so seldom these days I dont know what process it goes through now.
Please don't jump to conclusions and say "Kitz said its DLM removing banding", because thats not what Im saying.
I'm saying Im not sure, but it could be. Without knowing your line profile I'm in the dark :(
-
No problem Kitz. It's just shocked to see G.INP was removed because G.INP does help with more speed gain. How cruel DLM can be. Sadly as for DLM Reset (I wish I have one with default open profile for 48 hours)
Nothing I can do about it now! Just sit back and wait for another 54 days stable again!
-
I agree with Kitz, looks like a DLM reset to me.
You'll find out in the next few days/weeks when DLM applies G.INP.
I also think it looks like you picked up a new crosstalker.
This probably means you won't get the full 80Mb after G.INP comes back.
You will get 80Mb if the line applies a lower target snrm.
Looks encouraging though max. That might be the banding gone.
-
Yeah have to wait and see what happen in the next few days of weeks for G.INP to comeback. As for DLM Reset (that's very strange as I never have any fault team dealing with it) nothing at all.
Here is my latest BT Checker for my line as of today:
-
It is a balancing act as to report it or not as don't forget BT may just lower the hand back threshold at anytime - at times I wonder if they automatic change it depending on your sync speed, but that would be too cynical.
Also if you have an impacted line the hand back is actually 49Mb so you are still above this value? A joke really saying your line can run between 49-80Mb and that is acceptable!
Anyway I hope it will sort itself out if it is just ginp needs reapplying and/or a target of 3db.
-
I agree with Kitz, looks like a DLM reset to me.
You'll find out in the next few days/weeks when DLM applies G.INP.
I also think it looks like you picked up a new crosstalker.
This probably means you won't get the full 80Mb after G.INP comes back.
You will get 80Mb if the line applies a lower target snrm.
Looks encouraging though max. That might be the banding gone.
Definitely a DLM reset. Just looking at Max's resync stats, the code for today's resync was 1 RDI.
It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
-
Definitely a DLM reset. Just looking at Max's resync stats, the code for today's resync was 1 RDI.
It will be interesting to see where it goes from here.
Just as a wee "by the way, did you know that..." but resync reason 1 - RDI Remote Defect Indicator doesn't necessarily mean it's a DLM initiated resync. It clearly is on this occasion as the DLM profile has clearly changed.
I think Tony might have fairly recently removed the word DLM (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20395.msg356563.html#msg356563) from MDWS resync emails.
-
Hopefully you'll get G.INP back soon enough. I was on interleaving (downstream) again recently, INP 3 delay 8ms, presumably because of a spike in errors. It took 20 days before DLM took positive action (restoring fastpath) and did so just after 5am yesterday. It's a shame that DLM takes incredibly longer to take positive action each time it intervenes, although I can see to some degree why it's designed that way.
From what I can see though, and what others have said, I'd also agree in that it looks like you've had a DLM reset. How though is anyone's guess. I doubt it was a backhaul change, so that leaves caution counter (perhaps?) or someone else within Openreach I guess. Strange though.
-
I get bit confused. Because if it was DLM reset then it would be leave it as open profile for 48 hours? With no G.INP, both on fast path and no INP on both and SNR would be default at 6dB on both. Maybe I could be wrong.
I just don't know how did it happen after 6pm when I had email say Reason: 1 Remote Defect Indicator/DLM and I went :) I hope it removed banded 74M for almost 54 days stable until I check DSLstats, I went mad to see sync rate drop even more down to 69Meg and I was horrific to see G.INP was disappear (disabled)
Very strange indeed.
-
After a DLM reset....
ECI cabs have an open profile, fastpath,
Huawei cabinets have interleaving/INP 3
It looks like that to me max. Like Kitz said don't take that as fact, just our opinions.
I've never seen DLM change like yours without it being a DLM reset.
Perhaps OpenReach are proactively looking for banded DLM profiles. They seem to acknowledge the banding issue with the caution counter reset news also.
-
That's interesting. So, the banded of 74M is now removed as it look likely the DLM reset itself has worked out after 2 months. So, it a waiting game now for to get the G.INP enabled in a couple of days or weeks. Hopefully it should go back to around 76-80Mb.
-
That's interesting. So, the banded of 74M is now removed as it look likely the DLM reset itself has worked out after 2 months.
It may not be. Just our opinions. As with everything DLM related it's just educated guesses. Only an upto date GEA Test could tell (Plusnets are 11? days out of date).
-
Yeah I never seen SNR at 6dB before on my line for FTTC since day 1 in 2014 (SNR was 13dB) I got a screenshot copy below when my very first FTTC went live and activated by Openreach engineer.
-
I have noticed something on the DSLStats under Stats below
DSLAM/MSAN type: BDCM:0xa48c / v0xa48c
Before it used to be BDCM:0xa48c / 0xa48c
-
My DSLAM says the same as yours Max.
-
Just as a wee "by the way, did you know that..." but resync reason 1 - RDI Remote Defect Indicator doesn't necessarily mean it's a DLM initiated resync. It clearly is on this occasion as the DLM profile has clearly changed.
I think Tony might have fairly recently removed the word DLM (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20395.msg356563.html#msg356563) from MDWS resync emails.
Always willing to be educated. That's why I am here. Tell me more.
-
I wonder if this reset could be related to the reports of a fix being due by the end of January for the problem caused by rogue modems preventing the collection of DLM data? Perhaps once the fix is applied all banded lines are reset?
-
@adslmax: the small difference in the way the DSLAM/MSAN type is presented doesn't have any significance. The 'v' simply stands for 'version', and the next release will slightly modify that line on the Stats page to look like this:
DSLAM type / SW version: BDCM:0xb12d (177.45) / v0xb12d
-
All make sense now as I didn't notice there is ticket on my Plusnet that it say below:
CSC Analyst 12:27pm, Friday 26 Jan 2018 [Internal] Line banded at 35mbps Raising fault so faults colleague can raise with DCoE to unband line Fault ref: *-************
No ones told me about this ticket last Friday? What was the hell is this line banded at 35mbps? That's does surprise me! My line never banded at 35mbps (was 74mbps banded for 54 days until yesterday)
-
Perhaps PN logged the fault against the wrong line/account.
-
PN has apology it was meant to be 74Mb banded not 35Mb.
Good news PN are now can reset DLM as part of the trial say below:
Sorry I meant to put 74mbps, it was a typo. At the back end of last week I became aware that we can send accounts that meet certain criteria over to our suppliers to remotely reset the line as part of a Trial. So I sent your account over on Friday and a DLM reset was supposed to take place yesterday. But it looks like it might have not happened because your line is still banded at 74mbps. So far we've not had any feedback from our suppliers but I'll let you know when we do. It's a bit odd that g.inp was removed yesterday but not the banding. I'll let you know when/if we hear back from BTW. -Anoush
-
Always willing to be educated. That's why I am here. Tell me more.
No more to tell really. Just pointing out reason 1 usually is DLM, but not always.
It just means resync reason is 1 - RDI (remote defect indicator).
It's only on MyDSLWebStats that the word DLM appears alongside reason 1, as at the time it was assumed it was always a DLM resync. It's discussed further on the
thread I linked to (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20395.msg356558.html#msg356558).
-
Good news PN are now can reset DLM as part of the trial say below:
Excellent news, sounds like you are one of the first that PN did it for. So it looks like both PN and BTr were added to the list of trial ISPs last week :)
This fully explains why you are now at the default profile.
As I and others have mentioned several times a DLM reset for Huawei cabs does not put you on Open Profile. It's INP 3.. which is exactly what you are sitting at now.
Sorry I meant to put 74mbps, it was a typo. At the back end of last week I became aware that we can send accounts that meet certain criteria over to our suppliers to remotely reset the line as part of a Trial. So I sent your account over on Friday and a DLM reset was supposed to take place yesterday. But it looks like it might have not happened because your line is still banded at 74mbps. So far we've not had any feedback from our suppliers but I'll let you know when we do. It's a bit odd that g.inp was removed yesterday but not the banding. I'll let you know when/if we hear back from BTW. -Anoush
I'm concerned about this. With GEA data always being out of date, it leaves the ISP a bit in the dark and we don't know for certain if that banding has been removed or not.
Its why I said there are 2 things going on with your line. Your new crosstalker has taken away an estimated 11Mbps of headline speed. Anoush will have no way of knowing this.
As it stands at the moment there is not enough SNRM in your line to see if banding has been removed or not. It may have been, but just right now your speed is being restricted because of INP (Interleaving) and not because of the banding cap.
We really need a much better way to find out the current DLM profile.
-
Max. I know sometimes you don't always interpret things as intended. Im going to try give you an example which may help clarify things.
Can you remember years ago when you had the old TP-link TDW-9980? At that time your line stats and mine where quite similar in that we both had a headline speed of 90Mbps plus and similar surplus SNRM.
Since then I have experience several cross-talkers which have taken my line rate down to below 80Mbps and I currently sit at circa 72/73Mbps without interleaving. The cross-talkers have eroded my SNRM so that now I cant sync at the full 80Mbps. Sometimes I get INP 3 (interleaving) and this means my line wont sync above 67/68Mbps.
Your current sync of 69Mbps is the equivalent to my 67/68Mbps. However you are fortunate being on a Huawei cab and have a very good chance of getting some speed back. However because of the new cross-talker atm its looking unlikely to go back up to the full 80Mbps. You may be lucky because of G.INP. I cant and the highest my line will now sync is 73Mbps.
Based on your current stats, when INP is removed you are perhaps looking at around 76/77 Mbps as a very rough figure. Perhaps G.INP will give you a bit more.
Max: Upstream rate = 27636 Kbps, Downstream rate = 83018 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 69594 Kbps
You cannot believe the max downstream rate because you currently have INP. When you have INP, the max rate is always over-inflated and cannot be trusted.
Just to repeat what I said above, Anoush wont be aware of your new cross-talker. I also don't know, how he knows if the line is currently banded or not and is just assuming because your sync is so much lower. He will still be getting the old profile from GEA.
So far we've not had any feedback from our suppliers but I'll let you know when we do.
I doubt he will get any feedback. Its my understanding that the trial is a "One Shot" attempt and no feedback is ever given, regardless if the attempt is successful or fails.
-
Kitz
Yeah I guess you are correct there. When the G.INP switched back on, it will add another 6-7 Mbps to get to around 75/76 Mbps but if the target SNR3dB is enabled then it might add another 4Mbps to get the full 80 Mbps if DLM agree with target SNR 3dB cope well on my line if I am lucky.
But sooner or later, the more peoples added in my street cabinet will reduced more Mbps off the line. As for G.Fast come around sooner in the summer might get around 200Mbps down and 30Mbps up within 250metres if the cost is reasonable with PN.
Now, it look like the main reason of my FTTC DLM was resetted yesterday because of INP 3 and G.INP removed and SNR at 6dB. It's a question of how long to wait for the G.INP to return then DLM will decided if target SNR 3dB can applied or not.
It's a waiting game now to find out sooner or later. I was surprise that PN put forward my account to take part of BTw FTTC DLM remotely reset as I wasn't aware of this and never ask for it. Good on Anoush to put this forward for me.
And now everyones will know PN is one of the ISP taken part of FTTC DLM reset trial. But I think it restrict policy set by BTw and OR. (Possible my DLM reset is one last shot that's it, no more)
I expecting DLM will act overnight or on Thursday to put the G.INP enabled back on, because of Billion 8800NL does support G.INP as always is.
As for the GEA Test, yep it outdated and not up to dates. I can't remember how often does BTw sent the report of GEA Test back to the ISP to be updated? I reckon once every fortnightly for the profile time stamped.
-
Updated:
Overall very disappointed between PN and BTw as there is no response. Now PN closed the fault with no response from BTw and nothing more they can do about it, what a U-TURN. :(
Dear ***********,
As per my responses over the community forums, I submitted your account to our suppliers to remotely reset the line.
Unfortunately it doesn't look like this had worked as your service is still banded.
As the process is a trial we don't have a way of chasing this up I'm afraid.
Kind regards,
Anoush
-
It's not a U-Turn.
I don't know how he can see your line is banded, you're not syncing high enough to check.
The GEA Test is 11 days out of date so will show banding for the next couple weeks. Just wait for G.INP to return.
You do NOT want them to try another DLM reset.
This will just mean the clock starts again and you will have longer to wait for G.INP and XdB snrm profiles.
-
It's not a U-Turn.
I don't know how he can see your line is banded, you're not syncing high enough to check.
The GEA Test is 11 days out of date so will show banding for the next couple weeks. Just wait for G.INP to return.
This ^.
I almost banged my head on the desk earlier because despite trying my utmost, information is not getting through properly :'(
How many times have we said Anoush wont know the latest line info nor know about the crosstalker.
there is no response.
As I said above.. there wont be. It was specifically stated that there would not be as its an interim measure and not fully operational.
"Its my understanding that the trial is a "One Shot" attempt and no feedback is ever given, regardless if the attempt is successful or fails. "
Plusnet have tried. It may well have worked.
You wont know until G.INP comes back, or until a GEA test gives you the up to date profile, which could take a couple of weeks.
-
I have to wait until G.INP will put it on itself on it own. PN say it will check GEA Test again in two weeks time from today. So, I have to wait and see for the DLM to do itself.
Kitz any idea how long to wait for DLM to put G.INP enabled after resetted? I have no idea of how long it will take.
On the DSLStats I have notice SNR went up to 8dB then went back down to 6dB around 12pm today
-
Kitz any idea how long to wait for DLM to put G.INP enabled after resetted? I have no idea of how long it will take.
No-one does. It can take a few days, it may take a couple of weeks.
On the DSLStats I have notice SNR went up to 8dB then went back down to 6dB around 12pm today
Which is typical behaviour of what happens when they turn their modem off. The fact that you've had a few spikes in the past few days within the same range is what makes me 99.9% certain that you have a new crosstalker.
-
Fibre is getting worse and worsen now as speed was all over the place all day today.
Something isn't right. Very high ping at over 300ms and speed range from 12Mbps to 64Mbps down and 14Mbps to 19Mbps up.
Via ethernet as usually as always is.
BTw speedtest isn't working for my line say The Performance Tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider.
-
Clearly there is something not right with your service, at the moment. :o
Please don't become obsessive over it, Max.
Make a note of the relevant parameters, along with the date & time. There's nothing else that you can do. Just use it as best you can. Tomorrow will be another day. :)
-
BT Speedtester work now but at the wrong throughput speed. LOL
-
Download Speed 426.8 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed 67.36 Mbps
Upload Speed 14.37 Mbps
Max Achievable Speed 20 Mbps
Something slightly amiss, I think. :D
-
BT Speedtest far from accurate for me.
The response from the IDNet Service Desk was not to use it as it is known to be inaccurate on VDSL.
Pretty damning if that is the case.
-
Funny is some ISPs ask to use BTw speedtester as BT will check it as a proof. I agree BTw speedtest is a waste of space and outdated (is ok on ADSL / ADSL2+)
-
Is it ok for me to switch off Billion 8800NL for at least 40 minutes and then turn it back on and see what happen next or best leave it alone and let the DLM do the job itself (been connected for 2 days, 15 hours since DLM resetted) as I probably thinking if I did shutdown modem and maybe G.INP will kicked in or make no difference?
-
It won’t help, as many people have said before. I’m still waiting for G.inp after 3 weeks. Be patient.
-
So typical of DLM love to keep them waiting and waiting for so long for weeks or months to get the speed increase but DLM are very quick degrade speed. Thank you very much nasty of Openreach DLM.
Thinking we all better off with full FTTP (80/20) without DLM on it.
-
I'd just leave it alone if I were you.
G.INP will arrive when it arrives - as Kitz has said this could be days or many weeks as there does not seem to be any pattern.
Rebooting the modem will make no difference.
:)
-
I leave it alone. As I am going away for couple of days. Won't be back until next Monday. (I do hope there won't be any power cut or power loss while I am away)
-
DLM has enabled G. INP on the line and resync at the maximum 79999k / 19999k after a long 57 days of waiting. Very happy now :) its appear btw DLM reset on the 29th January after 6pm is successfully.
-
Excellent news. :D
We told you it would and also told you that it was most likely to remove the banding, but we couldnt tell yet until G.INP had been re-applied. It took 2 full days of stability so that wasn't too bad was it?
I think you owe Anoush a big thank you.
Not many ISP's would have recalled that you wanted a DLM reset and put your line forward as soon as he found out that Plusnet was now on the trial.
TBF I think he has been quite patient with you and done all he could under the circumstances.
-
Re your crosstalker, your max attainable has dropped from 93320 to 82462.
Considering we were working blind, that wasn't a bad estimate when I said:-
Your new crosstalker has taken away an estimated 11Mbps of headline speed. Anoush will have no way of knowing this.
We were also right when we repeatedly said
As it stands at the moment there is not enough SNRM in your line to see if banding has been removed or not. It may have been, but just right now your speed is being restricted because of INP (Interleaving) and not because of the banding cap.
You are fortunate that you are on a Huawei cab to have g.inp. :)
It's not often I do the "told you so".. but I think in this particular case it is well justified because we had to keep repeating ourselves.
So all along we correctly guessed what was happening at each step. See... all it took was a little bit of patience from you. ;)
-
Thanks Kitz, I am so lucky to have Huawei cabinet as Telford as large area with all Huawei fibre cabinets everywhere. I have sent a private message to thanks Anoush for all the work he try to help me to get my line back as where it was as before. I can't believe I am back on maximum 80/20 as to be honest I wasn't expecting that as I am prepared that my cabinet is crosstalker and could reduced my sync rate around 75. I can see that max attainable rate has dropped to 82462 (if that went below 80000, then my sync rate will start to drop) unless the cabinet DLM might try to adjust target SNR 3dB next step in future.
MY parents line is now on SNR target 3dB on their cabinet after GEA TEST showed that their line is on the 3dB by OR.
I better leave my modem alone (Billion 8800NL) as TP Link wireless router will take care of the rest, never turn modem off (unless if there is a power cut or power loss) have to leave it off until the power restored 100% solid. The problem is what if I am away and suddenly there is a power cut or a power loss and kept doing it might end DLM reduced speed or even banded again. Do u think it safe to shutdown modem whilke I am away on holiday or few days away?
Kitz, I do hope your line will go back to 80/20 soon with your cabinet (I am not sure if your is with ECI cabinet?) and hope Openreach will enabled G.INP on your line soon. And for others too.
My FTTC Stats History:
1st resync: 11th Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 20000
SNR margin (dB): 8.3 13.9
Power (dBm): 12.4 -0.6
Interleave depth: 8 8
INP: 46.00 47.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
2nd resync: 12th Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 73998 20000
SNR margin (dB): 10.1 14.0
Power (dBm): 12.5 -0.6
Interleave depth: 8 4
INP: 52.00 55.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
3rd resync: 22nd Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.5 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 74000 20000
SNR margin (dB): 10.0 14.4
Power (dBm): 12.4 -0.6
Interleave depth: 16 8
INP: 49.00 47.00
G.INP: Enabled Enabled
4th resync: 26th Nov 2017
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.4 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 74000 19999
SNR margin (dB): 9.9 15.1
Power (dBm): 12.5 -0.9
Interleave depth: 16 1
INP: 49.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
5th resync: 29th Jan 2018 (after 54 days stable)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 69594 19999
SNR margin (dB): 6.2 15.2
Power (dBm): 12.5 -1.3
Interleave depth: 1363 1
INP: 3.00 0
G.INP: Not Enabled Not Enabled
6th resync: 1st February 2018 (at 1:45pm)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 19999
SNR margin (dB): 6.7 15.1
Power (dBm): 12.4 -1.3
Interleave depth: 8 1
INP: 48.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
-
Max I am glad you are sorted. For some reason I thought you were on eci cab! It would also drive me nuts waiting for the DLM to do its job. Great that plusnet appear to be trailing reset DLM abilities now without an engineer.
-
The problem is what if I am away and suddenly there is a power cut or a power loss and kept doing it might end DLM reduced speed or even banded again. Do u think it safe to shutdown modem whilke I am away on holiday or few days away?
I would be tempted to do so if I were you. Quite a lot of lines can get spiky SNRM if they come back up after a power failure. Most people wouldnt notice, but since it was the effects during power failure that got you banded and knowing how worried you get if DLM takes any action. It would probably be best in your case. DLM wont care if your line is shut down for a few days as lots of people turn their router off completely when they go on holiday.
Kitz, I do hope your line will go back to 80/20 soon with your cabinet (I am not sure if your is with ECI cabinet?) and hope Openreach will enabled G.INP on your line soon. And for others too.
Yes ECI, so no G.INP and no 3dB. Line would probably cope fine at 3dB and it would take me back up to 80Mbps. I still am sometimes able to sync at full 80Mbps, but its short-lived because its more of a case of my modem having syn'd before my cross talkers modem and then I can sit at 3dB SNRM for a while until I have to reboot my modem for some reason or other.
I also have a weird daily error spike, which is what sometimes triggers DLM for me, most of the time its OK and goes back to normal, but on occasion it will stick until I reboot the modem. Up until fairly recently if I was going to be out all day then I would turn the modem off. Now I have something in place with dslstats that alerts me if the error spike sticks. The email alert goes to my mobile and using my mobile. I can now reboot my modem remotely using Kasa and a TP-Link HS100 smart plug.
Gawd knows though when Openreach are going to do g.inp and 3dB on the ECI's. Its dragged on a lot longer than any of us could have imagined.
Vectoring would be even better. I saw someone on here recently whose line length was double mine yet with vectoring he was able to get about the same speed at me. I think crosstalk has cost me nrly 40Mbps so far.... and even more when my line gets INP. Thats more than a third of my original line rate gone due to FEXT.
-
I agree with you Kitz. I am sure I seen vectoring was enabled on my line once ages ago but it disappear since. Not sure. If G.Fast pod was installed on the PCP cabinet, will it enabled vectoring on FTTC / G.Fast?
My Cabinet isn't vectoring.
adsl info --vectoring
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason: 1
Last initialization procedure status: 0
Max: Upstream rate = 27625 Kbps, Downstream rate = 82462 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 19999 Kbps, Downstream rate = 79999 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Vectoring state: 5
VCE MAC Address: 0:0:0:0:0:0
Total error samples Ethernet pkts sent: 0
Total error samples Ethernet pkts discarded: 0
Total error samples statuses sent: 0
Total error samples statuses discarded: 0
>
As for Kasa and TP Link HS100 smart plus sound very interesting. My Billion 8800NL is the default main modem with wireless disabled and connected to my TP Link VR2600 wireless router http://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/smart-home/kasa.html
-
If you have a G.Fast Pod it will in no way affect the G.inp/Vectoring/xdB settings of FTTC. They are completely separate subsystems.
-
There is no G.Fast pod everywhere in Telford at present with all cabinets. If I ever seen one, I would take a photo and post here. I don't think we will be getting any G.Fast this year.
-
I am sure I seen vectoring was enabled on my line once ages ago but it disappear since.
I thought I had once seen you provide some stats in the past which indicated vectoring.. and hence my confusion in this post here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20549.msg358665/topicseen.html#msg358665).
It does seem highly unlikely though, because they wouldn't apply it and then take it away again.
As for Kasa and TP Link HS100 smart plus sound very interesting. My Billion 8800NL is the default main modem with wireless disabled and connected to my TP Link VR2600 wireless router
The Kasa app (http://www.tp-link.com/us/home-networking/smart-home/kasa.html) for mobile is free. Need a HS100 (http://www.tp-link.com/uk/products/details/HS100.html) which unfortunately are expensive right now, but they do have offers on them.. or there are other makes which may be cheaper.
There's a thread here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20831.0.html) about how I set it up with DSLstats.
-
HS100 isn't that bad price here: https://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/smart-tech/smart-tech/smart-home/tp-link-hs100-smart-plug-10161338-pdt.html
-
Amazon sometimes have them on promotion.
There are other manufacturers, but since I already had a HS100 for a quite a while and know they work well without needed a hub, so it was natural for my 2nd to be another HS100.
I was kicking myself before xmas as I realised I stupidly missed out on getting another for £9.99 :(
-
I was surprise to get a call from a fault team (PN) couple of hours ago after 4pm as the man say that BT Wholesale has confirmed your line has successfully two parts of DLM remotely resetted on the caution counter as a trial. Asked me if I would like to take part of the trial survey in strictly manner. I have no idea what is it all about. I told the fault team it has been successful and thanks for this. Fault team is now trialing on other PN users (few of them) during the trial of DLM Remotely Reset against caution counter or stuck banded for too long. A good start by PN. :)
-
Excellent :)
I hope you reminded them that GEA test results always show historic DLM data and to check the time stamp next to the DLM profile :)
-
Kitz will do that.
I just made a new Remote Defect Indicator/DLM Resync History records for my line so it useful for in future if it happen again with how long it takes to restored it back.
1st Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 26th Nov 2017 at 12:55pm (line banded enabled)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.4 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Attenuation rate (kbps): 89238 30218
Connection speed (kbps): 74000 19999
SNR margin (dB): 9.9 15.1
Power (dBm): 12.5 -0.9
Interleave depth: 16 1
INP: 49.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
2nd Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 29th Jan 2018 at 6:10pm (after 64 days stable & DLM resetted)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Attenuation rate (kbps): 83026 27648
Connection speed (kbps): 69594 19999
SNR margin (dB): 6.2 15.2
Power (dBm): 12.5 -1.3
Interleave depth: 1363 1
INP: 3.00 0
G.INP: Not Enabled Not Enabled
3rd Remote Defect Indicator/DLM resync: 1st February 2018 at 1:45pm (after 3 days stable & restored)
Downstream Upstream
Line attenuation (dB): 11.3 0.0
Signal attenuation (dB): Not available on VDSL2
Attenuation rate (kbps): 82489 27617
Connection speed (kbps): 79999 19999
SNR margin (dB): 6.7 15.1
Power (dBm): 12.4 -1.3
Interleave depth: 8 1
INP: 48.00 0
G.INP: Enabled Not Enabled
My FTTC stats example with 248m line length depend on SNR & attainable rate with G.INP enabled:
SNR: 21.0dB - 133000k
SNR: 18.0dB - 123000k
SNR: 15.0dB - 113000k
SNR: 12.0dB - 103000k
SNR: 9.0dB - 93000k
SNR: 6.0dB - 83000k
SNR: 3.0dB - 73000k
SNR: 0.0dB - 63000k
-
I better leave my modem alone (Billion 8800NL) as TP Link wireless router will take care of the rest, never turn modem off (unless if there is a power cut or power loss) have to leave it off until the power restored 100% solid. The problem is what if I am away and suddenly there is a power cut or a power loss and kept doing it might end DLM reduced speed or even banded again. Do u think it safe to shutdown modem whilke I am away on holiday or few days away?
If power failure is a concern and you feel you can justify the cost, a small(ish) UPS unit could be an option, obviously sized to what you wished to maintain power to and for how long, lots of good information on this available on line as usual.
Most would likely consider this OTT in a domestic environment, individual choice, modern units are quite compact and not that costly, a 1000 VA unit currently approx. £90, could get away with a smaller (cheaper) unit if desktop PC/VDU was not a maintained requirement.
-
If power failure is a concern and you feel you can justify the cost, a small(ish) UPS unit could be an option, obviously sized to what you wished to maintain power to and for how long, lots of good information on this available on line as usual.
Most would likely consider this OTT in a domestic environment, individual choice, modern units are quite compact and not that costly, a 1000 VA unit currently approx. £90, could get away with a smaller (cheaper) unit if desktop PC/VDU was not a maintained requirement.
Or perhaps this: http://www.powerinspired.com/brochures/BR-UPS-IP.pdf
-
@Ixel
Very interesting, was not aware of these units or site, thank's for the link.
Would certainly be very cost effective where only 1 unit was required, eg., a router/modem with RPi powered from USB, however, if a separate router & modem was being used (which is the preference of quite a lot of users, I think including "max") requiring more than one unit then the cost would quickly become comparable to a small conventional UPS unit.
Of course, to maintain line synch on a separate router, modem setup, only the modem would require power backup protection so definate possibilities, if a RPi (Zero) was powered from the modem then DSLStats operation would also be maintained but upload path to MDWS would be lost during the power outage.
-
I was looking on mydslwebstats and notice there is amber light on and also noticed a drop of SNR (SNR missed a big gap) should I be concerned about this?
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
Amazon sometimes have them on promotion.
There are other manufacturers, but since I already had a HS100 for a quite a while and know they work well without needed a hub, so it was natural for my 2nd to be another HS100.
I was kicking myself before xmas as I realised I stupidly missed out on getting another for £9.99 :(
This is how I got mine previously - if anyone's after a cheap one in the future might be worth signing up to Amazon's Deal of the Day (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/gss/detail/6560771) email. They also integrate very nicely with Home Assistant (https://home-assistant.io/)!
Anyway yes, back on topic. Glad to hear that your line is in a good state now Max! That's some positive news on the ISP initiated DLM reset trial.
I was looking on mydslwebstats and notice there is amber light on and also noticed a drop of SNR (SNR missed a big gap) should I be concerned about this?
If you click on the traffic lights on MyDSLWebStats, it'll pop up another window explaining why it's changed from Green to Yellow. Normally it's because Errored Seconds have hit a certain threshold. Which I think isn't something to be worried about if you're on G.INP since that'll be correcting the errors anyway and thus not something to be worried about? I'll leave it to someone with more knowledge than me to confirm if that's the case or not though!
-
The Errored Seconds will be what the retransmission has not been able to correct.
-
I was looking on mydslwebstats and notice there is amber light on
The amber light in that column means that you had some upstream error seconds. You had a total of about 50 yesterday and so far 34 for today which is nothing.
I havent checked your stats, but it is highly likely that g.inp is NOT enabled on your line for the upstream.
DLM only applies upstream g.inp if the line needs it and I cant see any reason why it would for your line.
and also noticed a drop of SNR (SNR missed a big gap) should I be concerned about this?
There's also some other missing stats for the same period. At a guess it looks like data wasnt being sent to MDWS during that period. Was your PC off or in hibernation?
-
There's also some other missing stats for the same period. At a guess it looks like data wasnt being sent to MDWS during that period. Was your PC off or in hibernation?
Ah, that's explain why is this. Because I am switched from PC to Raspberry PI as it wasn't worked of uploading MDWS as it was my own fault because I forget to select modem / model in Raspberry PI. That's now has resolved. So, I can turn off PC. And leave Raspberry PI on at all times 24/7 365. :)
UPDATED: THe traffic light now turned back to GREEN :)
-
Hi all, I just come home after away to my friends for two nights. I am so shocked to see 27 retrains on the line worse is between 9:39pm and 10:49pm and again at 12:59am last night with 27 email alerts of loss of resync as I went 'Oh great DLM is on the way today'. I will talk to my daughter later to find out what is going on and why it resync 27th times? :( :(
[attachment deleted by admin]
-
That's a lot of re-syncs. Unfortunately in my experience I believe too many re-syncs will most likely apply banding and usually error correction as well.
-
Hi Max,
If you look at the Loss of Service page on your MDWS, you can see that whatever happened started at 21:39 yesterday evening and the connection was bouncing up and down every couple of minutes up to 22:39 and then you had one further Loss of Service at 00:50 this morning.
What is slightly strange was whatever was causing the resyncs lasted for exactly one hour (if you ignore the final one).
-
Lets hope that this was a Wide Area Event (ie affected lots of circuits in your locality), in which case DLM should ignore it.
:)
-
My parents FTTC has the same as mine 27 resync last night with the same hours 9:39pm and 10:39pm so it so strange as DLM didn't take action on my line or my parents line as PN say it could be exchange issues.
-
Are they on the same cabinet? As that would explain it.
I don't know how something at the exchange could repeatedly break the DSL link on multiple DSLAMs.