Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => ISPs => Topic started by: Westie on January 29, 2018, 09:58:16 AM
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Today ought to be my last day on ADSL, as tomorrow is switchover day to Vodafone FTTC (40/10)! :fingers:
I feel a bit like I'm about to go down a giant water-slide I've never seen before: I'm (reasonably) confident I'll make it through OK, but I have no idea what twists & turns I'll encounter along the way.
My MDWS stats will be offline for a while, until I can either figure out how to get the figures from the supplied HHG2500, or I get my VF username & password to re-instate the DGA4130 I'm currently using.
Wish me luck! Wheee...... :silly:
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Good luck, you may well need it with Vodafone :fingers:
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Good luck with the switchover. You won't be able to get DSLstats working with the HHG2500, and it's generally considered to be a poor performer, so your best option is to get your login credentials from Vodaphone and revert to using your DGA4130.
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Thanks, guys. I'll report back when I'm at the bottom of the slide...
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So far, so good.
FTTC is just now up & working: real speeds now 33.0/9.1 (was 6.8/0.3 on ADSL).
Still using VF router, but I have my username & password so will look to change to DGA4130 later tonight - when others are not trying to use the internet. ;)
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I use an unlocked DGA4130, so if you need any help with configuration, let me know. Actually all I had to do was enter the ISP username and password and it worked. Other second order things could be configured later if needed.
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Thanks, Eric.
On ADSL I was running f/w 1.03 & GUI 3.9, but when I took it offline earlier today I couldn't see how to enable Vlan. I took it back to the standard TIM gui and Vlan was back. Unfortunately I had forgotten the steps I took to re-enable Ansuel's gui, so have had to wait for the Internet to come back online so I could look up the steps again.
Playtime tonight methinks!
George
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Update...
Well, I seem to have made it to the bottom of the slide without major mishap. :yay:
Now using the DGA4130, and uploading to MDWS.
There was a small problem with the Vodafone DNS servers not giving me internet access, but I have changed to using Google's, all is well.
All I need to do now is make some sense of the numbers. The real download speed has increased by 3Mbps since changing the router, so I'm glad I did that.
Time for bed...
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Excellent news!
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@Westie
Glad to hear that your ADSL/VDSL migration all went to plan, well done on your part, you are certainly getting into this technology very quickly, obviously a natural.
Early days yet for MDWS stat's analysis but your line appears to have synch'ed exceptionally well, practically on your 40/10 provision rates, is the fibre cab. outside your door or in your garden ?
US ES's increasing to expectation but still very low, should be practically eliminated when DS G.Inp is eventually applied, that's up to DLM when that occurs, as you have likely read on various forum posts, can be up to 8 weeks, a few members reporting even longer, mine took just over 7 weeks after ADSL/VDSL migration with Plusnet.
Have you noticed that vectoring is indicating "fully enabled", looks like you are one of the very lucky few.
Both DS & US SNRM's are very high, I would have thought that's because your line is already on DS/US target synch rates and lower target SNRM's are not required, I'am sure some of the more knowledgable forum members can give you a much more accurate explanation on this, I'am only guessing.
Don't really know what effect vectoring will have on this, only a few MDWS users have vectoring to date.
Have you checked your BTw BRAS IP profile's yet ?
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Nice stats mate, not jelly at all.... :-X
I'd be interested to know your line length.
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Glad to hear that your ADSL/VDSL migration all went to plan
Thanks in no small part to the excellent help from many people on this forum
US ES's increasing to expectation but still very low, should be practically eliminated when DS G.Inp is eventually applied, that's up to DLM when that occurs, as you have likely read on various forum posts, can be up to 8 weeks, a few members reporting even longer, mine took just over 7 weeks after ADSL/VDSL migration with Plusnet.
I'll wait a while then before I try any update changes on the DGA4130!
Have you noticed that vectoring is indicating "fully enabled", looks like you are one of the very lucky few.
I had noticed...but I need to educate myself what that means ;)
Have you checked your BTw BRAS IP profile's yet ?
I've tried, but from my old PC it didn't work. I'll try again from another machine tomorrow.
I'd be interested to know your line length.
I'll try to get that tomorrow, and post back.
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That's a very nice attainable speed 120/33, you could get the full fat 80/20 without any issues.
Vectoring basically counter acts crosstalk, crosstalk is interference from ones persons line to another and can knock 10's of Mb's off sync speeds.
I believe Kitz used to have an attainable speed like yours, but she's now down to 73Mbps due to cross talk.
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@Westie
Have you checked your BTw BRAS IP profile's yet ?
I've tried, but from my old PC it didn't work. I'll try again from another machine tomorrow.
Don't use Firefox browser when running BTw Performance Tester, known speed reporting issues although the BRAS IP profile should still report accurately.
You can also use mouselike.org to obtain your BRAS IP profile without the speed test facility.
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Quite impressive statistics, viewed via MDWS. :)
One anomaly is that MDWS is still showing the Hlog and QLN plots from your prior ADSL2+ service. In due course they will change to the current plots for the VDSL2 service.
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You can also use mouselike.org to obtain your BRAS IP profile without the speed test facility.
Hmmm, just tried that, & it didn't work! :no: It comes up with the following response:
It looks like you entered an invalid phone number or BTs system is refusing to run a test, try again in a few hours.
I know it's a valid phone number, so maybe BTW have something against VF?
I'll try again tomorrow
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I can't remember . . . Is a Vodafone service LLU? :-\
If the answer is "yes" then that will explain why you get nowhere with BTW based tests.
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As far as I am aware, our exchange (Llansteffan) is Market A, without any LLU presence.
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our exchange (Llansteffan) is Market A, without any LLU presence
Does not matter....you need to know your headend exchange.
All fibre cabs for an area goes via a large exchange. In Pembrokeshire the only headend exchange is Haverfordwest, so my punt would be Carmarthen.
Ian
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Does not matter....you need to know your headend exchange.
All fibre cabs for an area goes via a large exchange. In Pembrokeshire the only headend exchange is Haverfordwest, so my punt would be Carmarthen.
Ian
Not always ......we have a 'Parent & Child' set up on our patch that is the complete opposite. The tiny Exchange is the Head-end (Parent), with the larger Exchange being the 'child'.
As we only really see our own patches, I wouldn't have a Scooby as too how many there are like this up and about the UK ??
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@Westie
As b*cat and other forum members have said, there is a connection with LLU provision and the availability of BTw test facilities, not sure who your telephone line rental is currently with but your line data as FTTC will be provisioned through BTw regardless of ISP, obvious esception to this being cable, not usually referred to as FTTC (Virgin Media).
There are a few Vodafone ISP active forum members, I'am sure they will be able to offer more definitive advice.
There was a period at the end of last year, at least 2 to 3 weeks, when the BTw Performance Tester (further diagnostics) was not working or at best produced a very high failure rate, there's quite a long thread on the Plusnet members forum regarding this, one of the PN staff members was very diligent in his contacts with BTw and eventually the issue was sorted.
I have experienced virtually 100% success rate since it was fixed, in fact much better that it ever was previously when 50% failure rate was not uncommon.
The "mouselike.org" facility depends on the ability to extract the information from BTw (as it says in the test narrative), during the time period when the BTw Performance Tester (further diagnostics) was not working "mouselike.org" (BRAS profile) would not work either.
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not sure who your telephone line rental is currently with but your line data as FTTC will be provisioned through BTw regardless of ISP
Not sure that's correct.
BT Wholesale and OpenReach are not the same.
OpenReach own and maintain the network.
BT Wholesale sell backhaul to some ISP's.
LLU operators (like Vodafone) typically don't use BT Wholesale.
There are other backhaul providers like Talktalk Business, C&W (Vodafone), daisy, etc.
Only BTw provided phone numbers will have a BTw IP profile. Vodafone/Talktalk and other LLU providers don't have/use a BTw IP profile.
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@j0hn
Thank's for the clarification, the difference between Btw and OR has always been a bit of a grey area, for me anyway.
I thought that LLU exchange presence was applicable to ADSL & telephone service only and FTTC was always through the BT/OR network, obviously still a lot to learn on the subject.
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Both phone service and FTTC are from Vodafone. According to SamKnows, the only exchange in Carmarthenshire where Vodafone has a LLU presence is Llanelli, and I don't think they would provision us from there!
I've tried the BTw Performance Tester using IE on a Windows 7 machine, and although it does run a speed test it won't give an IP profile. That returns: Test Error
The Performance Tester is currently unable to run a speed test for your broadband connection. Please try again shortly, however if this problem persists, raise the issue with your service provider.
@tiffy, @V_R
I've paced out the line lengths, which are approximately:
70m from house to pole at the end of the garden. (Ducted underground, re-cabled 2 yrs ago.)
90m (underground) from pole to PCP.
30m from PCP to Huwawei FTTC cab.
No wonder I get good speed!
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I wouldn't rely on SamDoesntKnow being up to date!
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Not always ......we have a 'Parent & Child' set up on our patch
Okay.... thanks for that info....is there any LLU at that small parent exchange or just handover to the LLU networks?
Ian
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The simplest way I know to decide whether a line has been LLU'd is to make a call to 17070 and listen to the output.
If it begins "This circuit is defined as" <telephone number quoted> and proceeds to list a menu of options then it a BTW circuit. If the output is just a repetitive loop "This circuit is defined as" <telephone number quoted> then it is a LLU'd circuit.
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Okay.... thanks for that info....is there any LLU at that small parent exchange or just handover to the LLU networks?
Ian
Indeed there is LLU on offer. :)
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The simplest way I know to decide whether a line has been LLU'd is to make a call to 17070 and listen to the output.
If it begins "This circuit is defined as" <telephone number quoted> and proceeds to list a menu of options then it a BTW circuit. If the output is just a repetitive loop "This circuit is defined as" <telephone number quoted> then it is a LLU'd circuit.
Just to add to the above from Mr cat ..... when pressing 17070 on your landline phone, any BT owned ISP will start with 'This circuit is defined as 01**** ******', and as mentioned will then present you with a list of further automated options.
SKY also have a further list of options on their 17070 service.
As far as I am aware .... all the other providers just have 'You are connected to 01**** *******' on repeated loop for about 3/4 times. :)
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Sorry westie you won't be able to run the BTw Test with further diagnostics on Vodafone it's not a LLU thing of sorts, had a brief period of two months with VF last year which did not end very well for me but the 2nd line support team did their very best to help.
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OK, call to 17070 yields:
This circuit is defined as 01**** ******. Welcome to your OpenReach line test facilities...
So the line is not LLU, and VF is using a BTw line.
@NewtronStar Thanks for that info. I'll probably try it again from time to time, but won't lose any sleep if it doesn't work. Knowing my IPprofile won't help anyway, as I'm already syncing at 40/10.
Interestingly, the download speed reported by 'Ookla' at 20:48 this evening had dropped by 10Mbps to 25.8Mbps, but at 22:02 had regained 6Mbps. Sync has been constant at 39970bps throughout that time, so it seems there has been something of a congestion/contention issue at VF.
It doesn't really bother me, though. Even at its slowest it was almost 5 times faster than the best I could get from ADSL! :cool:
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Does not matter....you need to know your headend exchange.
[snip]
... my punt would be Carmarthen.
I think you are probably right.
*Thinks*...Now what is a headend exchange? ....[runs off to ask *oogle...]
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If like me you you have a small local exchange only giving ADSL and Telephone the headend will be much larger exchange 3 miles away offering FTTC ADSL ADSL2+ and with LLU equipment for ISP's so your FTTC will be coming from headend exchange to your FTTC cabinet and you local exchange will only be doing the telephone stuff.
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Or, as mooted ..... the term the planners/engineers use is, 'Parent & child' Exchanges. Just for your 'GOOGLING' pleasure. :)
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@j0hn
Thank's for the clarification, the difference between Btw and OR has always been a bit of a grey area, for me anyway.
I thought that LLU exchange presence was applicable to ADSL & telephone service only and FTTC was always through the BT/OR network, obviously still a lot to learn on the subject.
LLU means Local Loop Unbundling. The Local Loop being the copper between the exchange and your property. Other providers have a presence/equipment in the exchange, and they can serve lines on the exchange (or local loop).
FTTC is different in that they all use OpenReachs DSLAMs.
True LLU FTTC would see Talktalk/Sky etc setting up their own FTTC cabinets next to the PCP.
Between the number of cabinets needed, crosstalk issues, no vectoring between multiple DSLAMs, etc, this just isn't possible.
Instead traffic is sent to the exchange and at that point LLU operators can buy a GEA cable link and connect up the local FTTC to their own equipment. Not LLU in the true sense imo, but a working compromise.
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@j0hn
Many thanks for the further clarification, always keen to learn from the more experienced forum members.
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Im thinking of going from Sky FTTC to Vodafone.
I want to use a HG612, it seems like Voda now give the user/pass out.
What kind of differences, if any, may i see switching? Could i run into higher latencies and congestion? Or is it the same network that Sky use anyway?
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Hi jasjeet,
I've been on Vodafone for almost 18 months, so here's some thoughts:
Firstly, and you're probably aware of this, your sync speed (the speeds your physical connection runs at) will be the same (or broadly similar). I use the same HG612 with Vodafone that I used to use with BT Infinity -- same sync speed.
I've not noticed any congestion at all in my area (Kent). Latency is also a non-issue -- I've always had a steady ~11ms ping to bbc.co.uk on Vodafone and BT Infinity.
It it not the same network as Sky (or BT for that matter). Vodafone bought the old Cable & Wireless infrastructure a while back. Seems to perform fine -- only had one evening in 18 months of absurdly slow throughput, but it was rectified within a few hours.
Of course, this may differ depending on where in the country you are and how VF's network is arranged!