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Computers & Hardware => Other Technologies & Hardware => Topic started by: sevenlayermuddle on January 22, 2018, 11:43:33 AM

Title: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 22, 2018, 11:43:33 AM
I wondered - does anybody have any experience with Canon driver support for older printers vs newer OS?   My experience has not been so good, and is forcing early retirement of a perfectly good printer, but I have the impression that Canon are usually pretty good at ongoing OS support?

My old faithful Canon Pixma MX700 is up for renewal.  Built like a tank, it still functions perfectly at nine years old, but Canon stopped updating OS X drivers some years ago.  I have managed to keep it chugging along by installing the 'wrong' drivers, that should not work, but do.  With latest macOS High Sierra I can still print, but no amount of driver hacking seems to get the scanner to work.   So it is time to change.

I'll probably talk myself into buying another Canon as I liked the old one so much.  But a bit disappointed to see the cartridge ink volumes have shrunk lot from the old machine's generous 13ml colour, 26ml Black.   I reckon total cost of ownership of old machine was about £600 over nine years, including purchase and 45-50 genuine cartridges.   New printer, though purchase price is similar, will probably at least double that overall cost.  :o

Canon do offer 'XL' and 'XXL' cartridges for the new ranges, but even the XXL are smaller than the standard cartridges of my old Pixma (and more than twice the price!).  Par for the course though, I suspect, just the business model for printers - which, let's be honest, are ridiculously cheap to buy.    :(
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: d2d4j on January 22, 2018, 12:24:30 PM
Hi 7lm

You used what I normally suggest - wrong drivers (based on cannon engines do not change much)

The scanner works differently so does your printer have ftp uploading

If so and you want to keep the printer, setup ftp server on your computer and use ftp upload from printer

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 22, 2018, 12:51:09 PM
Thanks, I will check that out.

For the time being I can still scan via a VPN connection to a retired Mac mini that runs an older version of macOS.   That's just a bit too clunky for long term use though, so your suggestion for alternative avenue is welcome, I will investigate. :)

Even for printing mind, there are a few quirks.  It is a networked printer shared between two Mac PCs and I sometimes find that, after being used from one PC, it needs a power cycle reset before working again with the other PC.  Trouble is, that's the kind of glitch that might or might not be fixed in a new printer & new drivers, so I can't justify replacing the printer on that basis alone.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: Ronski on January 22, 2018, 01:20:52 PM
What about a stand alone scanner, I've use the Canon Lide range for years now, and I've been very pleased with them. No power supply required, all runs off a single UBS cable. Not ideal though if you need to scan from multiple computers, or don't have much space, although the scanner does come with a stand.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 22, 2018, 02:19:24 PM
Might give some thought to a separate scanner, but probably not... our office layout has a perfect natural  printer home, on top of a compact drawer unit about 15” square.   Perfect spot for a printer, but not big enough for two.

In any case, whilst I have managed to make the old drivers work so far, they have been unsupported for several recent iterations of macOS.   There is a reasonable probability that they might stop working completely soon, maybe even after next iteration of OS, in which case a new printer would still be needed.

Bottom line I suppose, the old Pixma has had a good innings, nine years.  So I am fairly happy to replace.   But I would be even happier if I could be confident the new one would last another nine years, with on going driver support for that time.   Maybe I need a crystal ball more than I need a printer. :D
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: Ronski on January 22, 2018, 03:33:09 PM
We all need a crystal ball, what's tomorrows Euro million numbers  ;)
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: tubaman on January 22, 2018, 03:57:20 PM
I don't use a Mac, but have you tried any of the available drivers for a standalone Canon scanner - it might just work.
 :)
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: vic0239 on January 22, 2018, 04:51:28 PM
I had a similar experience with two Canon printers in the past and vowed never to buy another. The drivers for the same devices were updated for Windows systems, but OS X seemed to just be dropped.

Have you tried the Gutenprint drivers for Mac? http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php (http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php) The Canon PIXMA MX700 series appears in the list of supported printers.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: broadstairs on January 22, 2018, 05:23:37 PM
The Gutenprint drivers are there for the printer but wont help with the scanner. Might be worth checking out Vuescan  (https://www.hamrick.com/) as it shows supoport for MX700.

Stuart
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: roseway on January 22, 2018, 06:29:57 PM
I second the suggestion of Vuescan. I've been using it for some time, and for supported devices it's trouble free.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 22, 2018, 06:33:07 PM
Have to say I must have led a sheltered life, had never heard of Gutenprint or Vuescan.   :-[

They do look interesting.  I’ll always be wary of installing software from sources I’ve never heard of, but thanks to these comments I have heard of them now, and they do appear legit. :)

Vuescan does appear to a trial only with a watermark on scans, with payment needed to use for real version?   Not sure I want to part with cash, for such an old printer/scanner.

I had a similar experience with two Canon printers in the past and vowed never to buy another. The drivers for the same devices were updated for Windows systems, but OS X seemed to just be dropped.

Wow, so mine wasn’t a one off.   Reading the Canon specs, new range of printers launched last year quote a range of macOS versions that don’t include current or even recent macOS   I’d assumed that was just laziness in updating documentation, but maybe not. :o

Maybe time to break allegiance with Canon, after all.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: broadstairs on January 22, 2018, 08:15:03 PM
Gutenprint has been in use on Linux for years and is very well respected, their mailing list is very active and the developers very helpful. I have been using Vuescan for years, again comes highly respected and the developer is very good, you will find it supports a huge range of scanners so it is unlikely you will ever need another scanning program. For me it has been excellent value for money.

Stuart
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: vic0239 on January 22, 2018, 08:59:24 PM
I second the suggestion of Vuescan. I've been using it for some time, and for supported devices it's trouble free.
Yes, I can recommend Vuescan too, been using it for years.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 23, 2018, 12:11:52 AM
Not so sure about cost of vuescan, having looked in more detail.  :-\

I’d be using it to get around the fact that Canon updates are unreliable, if not non-existent.  Yet in order to get Vuescan with updates, it seems to be £65 odd.   We have at least two PCs  that would be using it, and that usage would undeniably include business as well as personal.  As far as I can see, that would make it minimum £130, if I am open and honest about usage.

That same £130 would buy me a perfectly decent brand new printer/scanner, with updates for quite a few years, even if not for the 9-10 years I would have liked.  Ok, Vuescan updates are supposedly “unlimited” and ever lasting but reallistically, who knows whether Vuescan will even  exist in a few years time?  Canon probably will, as will Epson, HP, etc, but I’d not want to place any bets on smaller software outfits. ???
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: banger on January 23, 2018, 03:00:16 AM
I bought the Standard version of Vuescan a few years back with 1 year of updates for my HP scanner which worked fine for a while but then the scanner kept getting dust in the mirrors and couldn't find the home position so I bought a Canon Lide 220 which still has driver updates for Win 10 so Vuescan is now a backup application for the Lide scanner.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: roseway on January 23, 2018, 07:23:20 AM
The standard version of Vuescan doesn't stop working after a year - all that happens is that you don't get updates. One licence covers up to four computers, so a single standard licence would meet your needs unless you buy a new scanner which isn't covered by the version you have.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 23, 2018, 08:49:49 AM
The standard version of Vuescan doesn't stop working after a year - all that happens is that you don't get updates. One licence covers up to four computers, so a single standard licence would meet your needs unless you buy a new scanner which isn't covered by the version you have.

Thing is, macOS generally gets a major release every year.   I am sure they try to maintain compatible interfaces, but these updates have been substantial enough for Canon’s own drivers to require updating.  I don’t think I can be sure Vuescan will be compatible with these future versions of macOS, I would anticipate that a Vuescan update may sometimes also be needed.  It would be a bit like expecting the version of Vuescan written for Win 95, to still work with Windows 10.   

Re licence

https://www.hamrick.com/support/frequently-asked-questions/can-i-use-vuescan-on-more-than-one-computer.html

Quote
If more than one person (who isn't a family member) uses the computer, then you need a separate VueScan license for each computer.

Usually, business use is not regarded as “family”.   It may be the case that I’d not get caught, but that’s a different matter - it does read to be as if legitimate use would require two licenses.


Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 24, 2018, 10:44:30 AM
Interestingly, when I visit Canon support downloads, to view drivers for their current range of Pixma home/photo printers, for current macOS High Sierra, or any macOS in the past few years, I get...

Quote
This product is compatible with the operating system selected via AirPrint only. It is not required to install a driver.

Hmm, my expectation was that AirPrint might be a neat party trick to facilitate printing from an iPad or an iPhone, but not any substitute for a proper print driver when printing from a desktop.   Can an AirPrint printer access duplex printing for example, or choose all the obscure print options?  I assumed not, but maybe it can?

A brief Google does suggest my expectations were wrong, and maybe AirPrint does provide full functionality from a Mac. In which case maybe ongoing Canon driver support is maybe less of an worry these days.  I'd also want the printer to be on wired ethernet, not WiFi. I'm fairly sure that's OK, but how to be certain?

Perhaps a visit to an Apple store might be in order, test the knowledge of the sales reps, and ask to see a demo of AirPrint being used from a Mac.  :-\

Or at very least, make sure I buy any printer from a supplier with good returns policy! :-X
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: Weaver on January 27, 2018, 06:22:25 PM
Is Airprint related to CUPS at all? I know nothing about it.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 27, 2018, 07:03:28 PM
Is Airprint related to CUPS at all? I know nothing about it.

I don’t think so.

My understanding is that Airprint was initially developed by Apple as a dumbed down UI for quick and easy printing from mobile devices.   The printer manufacturers simply had to implement the protocol, and it all worked.   And credit for that, it was useful.

It seems to have been extended to iMacs too, with a bit more functionality but I suspect, nowhere near the functionality of an OEM hardware-specific printer driver.     Unfortunately printer manufacturers seem to have cottoned on to the fact that, although Airprint is dumbed down, it is a lot less bother for their own developers and is good enough, as 90% of their ‘consumer level’  customers are really quite dumb, and so happy with ‘dumbed down’.

The real high end photo printers from Canon, as used by professionals, and way out of my price bracket, still seem to get a dedicated driver.   The rest of us have to make do with Airprint, it seems. :(
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: parkdale on January 28, 2018, 11:39:40 AM
Have you thought about using a Raspberry PI as a print server/scan, found this link below.
As your printer is supported by Cups print drivers and the scanner by Sane.

https://samhobbs.co.uk/2014/07/raspberry-pi-print-scanner-server

Whoops :-[ still needs to have a driver....
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 28, 2018, 02:17:56 PM
Thanks but just to re-emphasise, my old printer does still just about work with latest macOS, and I can scan too by VNC to an old Mac Mini, running earlier OS.   So there is no urgent work arounds needed, I already have one. :)

What I need to work out is whether Canon support for new year printers on macOS is up to scratch, for current or future versions.   But if I decide it is not, I'll just buy a different manufacturer - decision not yet made.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: jaydub on January 28, 2018, 02:44:45 PM
What I need to work out is whether Canon support for new year printers on macOS is up to scratch, for current or future versions.   But if I decide it is not, I'll just buy a different manufacturer - decision not yet made.

The other question you also need to consider is whether the alternatives (presumably HP or Epson) or any better at continuing to support their printers on macOS.

I've stopped using an old Canon simply because it was a bit of a pain to keep running.  Our son has currently donated us a Canon MG3550, which works fine, but I hate the lack of a display screen and the need to look up what the flashing warning lights mean.  Also prefer multiple colour cartridges rather than the combined one this printer uses.

Tempted as I am to upgrade, it doesn't feel very ecologically sound to keep on discarding perfectly serviceable printers, just to go upgrade.
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 28, 2018, 05:23:32 PM
Indeed, other manufacturers may be no better.

And I do agree, shame to chuck the old one when still works.  Especially as Inkjet technology doesn’t seem to move fast.   By about 2005-2010 I reckon inkjets had become incredibly good, and I’m not sure they have (or even could have) improved much more since then.   Biggest difference is, new ones seem to have much less ink in their cartridges, which is another reason to stick with old.

Then again, a nine year old printer ain’t done bad.   If I can find a new one, that overcomes my driver concerns, I think I can justify that indulgence.    :)
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: Ronski on January 28, 2018, 06:35:16 PM
If it still works there is no need to chuck it away, either sell it or give it away on Freecycle  :)
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: Weaver on January 31, 2018, 06:01:36 AM
I am definitely interested in a Canon airprint printer given that I am printerless right now, because I simply can't get the current Epson to work with airprint. (I have a support case open with apple but they insisted on using an antique device called a telephone and I was far too ill to cope with it so progress stalled then died.) - Discussed in other thread.

But which Canon model? Janet will probably want an all-in-one unfortunately. She uses an ipad exclusively. (I have no idea how scanners might work with ios.)
Title: Re: Canon printers - support and costs
Post by: sevenlayermuddle on January 31, 2018, 08:49:29 AM
But which Canon model? Janet will probably want an all-in-one unfortunately. She uses an ipad exclusively. (I have no idea how scanners might work with ios.)

Worth pointing pointing out that iOS 11 Notes App supposedly includes a scanner using the camera.   Hit ‘+’ to add a new note, you get invited to scan documents.  Not tried it yet, myself.