Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => Broadband Hardware => Topic started by: chenks on January 11, 2018, 02:42:20 PM

Title: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 11, 2018, 02:42:20 PM
got a Fritz Box 3490 that is currently configured for Plusnet ADSL.
it will be changing to Plusnet FTTC 80/20.

what connections will need to be changed once the FTTC goes live?
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: Deathstar on January 11, 2018, 03:50:19 PM
Here?

https://www.plus.net/help/broadband/broadband-connection-settings/



Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: parkdale on January 11, 2018, 06:33:34 PM
Also check Fritzbox 3490 Annex settings.....
Annex A works fine, Annex B have been tried but won't work..
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 12, 2018, 08:03:03 AM
also wasn't sure if i needed to tweek MTU settings.
but not sure if the fritzbox has those.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: parkdale on January 12, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
I have set my MTU to 1500, to be honest I don't see much fragmentation with this setting.
You can use this 'guide' to get the best performance https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=90&topicid=105744
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settingsl
Post by: steve2525 on January 12, 2018, 08:13:01 PM
I have a fritzbox3390 on FTTC with Plusnet, had to enter VLAN ID:101 in account settings, change connection settings section.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: parkdale on January 13, 2018, 12:10:33 AM
My settings as used on John Lewis (Plusnet)
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 15, 2018, 11:43:28 AM
although, unless i can't spot it, not sure where the MTU setting is on the 3490.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: parkdale on January 15, 2018, 06:08:04 PM
It's listed under IPV6
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 15, 2018, 06:11:29 PM
is that only specific to IPv6 though?
i have that option disabled as ISP doesn't support IPv6.

the current settings for ADSL on the box are

vlan-id : disabled
vpi : 0
vci : 38
pppoe

the plusnet link about connection settings doesn't say anything about vpi and vci.
only the vlan-id
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: RealAleMadrid on January 15, 2018, 07:32:39 PM
Vpi and vci only apply to ADSL connections and VLAN-id is only for FTTC.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 16, 2018, 10:52:07 AM
so the settings shown in parkdales screen shot with VPI and VCI are not relevant?
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: RealAleMadrid on January 16, 2018, 01:37:54 PM
Correct. VPI & VCI are for ADSL which uses Asynchronous Transfer Mode protocol (ATM) so I suspect any values in those fields would not be relevant. FTTC uses Packet Transfer Mode (PTM) with a Vlan id.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 16, 2018, 02:52:15 PM
the migrate happens on 18/01
if i stick in the vlan ID value just now (whilst it's still ADSL), will that stop ADSL working?
just thinking that if the setting is already there then when the migrate happens and the connection drops the router will reconnect and have the FTTC setting already in place.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: RealAleMadrid on January 16, 2018, 03:12:53 PM
I can't answer that question, I know some routers such as BT HomeHubs can switch between ADSL and VDSL2 without user intervention, I guess they must try both modes when attempting to connect. I use the HG612 Openreach Modem which is not automatic and by default is VDSL2 only, before I had FTTC I had to reconfigure it to connect to my ADSL service. I don't know if having the VLAN-id enabled will upset the ADSL connection, there's only one way to find out, give it a try, what can possibly go wrong. :)
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: tiffy on January 16, 2018, 04:02:36 PM
I migrated from ADSL2+ to VDSL with Plusnet last June, I opted to take their Hub One router (re-badged BT HH5a) as only charged for P&P when upgrading, made sure this was dispatched well before the migration date and got it up & running on my ADSL setup first.
Never intended to keep using the PN Hub One due to it's very limited monitoring capabilities but thought it best to initially have PN's kit in place until migration took place just in case of any issues.

On migration day, the change was fully automatic, line dropped for approx. 10 mins. @ 09:00 hrs. then came up on VDSL, completely painless.

After a few days of stable operation, I changed to a Huawei HG612 plus my original Netgear ADSL only router in bridge mode which via DSLStats enabled on line monitoring to MDWS.
Later changed again to current router/modem, ZyXEL VMG1312-B10A.

In my case, it took over 7 weeks on VDSL for DLM to activate DS G.Inp on my line, for most people it's much shorter but something to be aware of (assuming you are on a Huawei DSLAM of course)

Not directly relevant to your Fritzbox router I know but as a PN ADSL/VDSL migration may be of interest.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: parkdale on January 16, 2018, 06:08:36 PM
Correct. VPI & VCI are for ADSL which uses Asynchronous Transfer Mode protocol (ATM) so I suspect any values in those fields would not be relevant. FTTC uses Packet Transfer Mode (PTM) with a Vlan id.

Just out of curiosity, I tried to change these values to auto detect :-\, and it kept the same values on rebooting ???
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 18, 2018, 05:38:17 PM
migration complete

(http://www.speedtest.net/result/6977881669.png)
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: tiffy on January 18, 2018, 05:55:09 PM
Congratulations, looks like a good result, enjoy.

Wonder, did you stick with your Fritzbox through migration ?
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 18, 2018, 05:57:44 PM
yes.
the offer of a "free" router was declined.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 19, 2018, 11:04:32 AM
wondering if i'm able to eek some more out of the connection.
the router is syncing at 75Mbps down and 20Mbps up.

it's a huawei cab.

snr
6dB receive 15dB send

line attuation
11dB send and receive

the cab is literally about 100 feet away, and the pole with the drop cable is in the back garden.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: parkdale on January 19, 2018, 06:09:42 PM
You need to give it a couple of weeks to settle down  :) otherwise you will be hit with the dreaded DLM
mine will produce almost matching input output on download and up load.
i.e. sync and attainable work out the same
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on January 19, 2018, 06:56:36 PM
this is mine

(http://i64.tinypic.com/wck2mv.jpg)
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on February 15, 2018, 08:25:06 AM
ok well a few weeks have passed now.
had 1 dropped connection since migration (on 29/01)

these are my current stats

(http://i66.tinypic.com/30rqsz8.jpg)

(http://i66.tinypic.com/2myq1rd.jpg)

do you think i can eek any more out of the line?
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: re0 on February 15, 2018, 09:51:34 AM
The following is based on the information provided in your post.

We take the downstream ES (Errored Seconds), which is 9653 and divide it by the uptime (16 days, 19 hours and 21 minutes) in hours (which in this case is 403.35 hours). 9653 / 403.35 gives a figure of 23.93206892277179, or 24 if rounded to the nearest whole number. The figure of 24 is how many ES per hour. If we divide the 60 (which represents an hour) by 24 (the amount of ES per hour) then we can see that there is an ES every 2.5 minutes (or 150 seconds if multiply 2.5 by 60).

The calculated Mean Team Between Errors (MTBE) is 150 (over the space of your uptime). Which means, because you are on Plusnet (who use Speed DLM profile), your line would be classified as Amber (i.e. no changes from the DLM).

You can find out more about the DLM here: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm)

Could you get more speed out of your line? Yes, potentially, seeing as the modem supports G.INP. G.INP will not give you a speed boost in itself, and I do not know the exact prerequisites for G.INP to be enabled, but if it is able to reduce the errors experienced through impulses of errors to get your MTBE above 300 (as the Green threshold for the Speed profile), then we could see the SNR reduced to as low as 3 dB thus giving you a boost.

Is there a scope for improvements in your speed currently? No. Be that the short answer.

Of course, there may be slight discrepancies in my post since I do not know if the FRITZ!Box retains error information after any downtime.


Edited to fix error in post.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on February 15, 2018, 10:14:59 AM
so are these errors (if that's what they are) outwith my control?
or could improved interal wiring make any difference?

my master socket is an original NTE5 which is fed from a little brown box attached to the inside of the window using CW1308.
the fritzbox is then connected to an internal extension (again using CW1308 via the internal connection inside the master socket) using the supplied filter that came with the fritzbox (the filter being on the extension).
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: re0 on February 15, 2018, 11:43:07 AM
http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats_errors.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/linestats_errors.htm) and http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/socket.htm) for a bit of homework for you. ;)

Errored Seconds (ES) are caused by code violations. Most of the time, they will be out of your control, but a few things (somewhat abridged) within your control that can impact it are as follows:

Choice of modem
Different modems contain different chipsets. Broadcom-based modems usually have the better reputation for stability compared to Lantiq or MediaTek (or at least older Lantiq chipsets). The 3490 has a Lantiq XWAY VRX288 SoC, which I have a feeling is an older chipset, but it does not say that it is bad in its implementation on the 3490. But your mileage may vary with Lantiq compared to Broadcom, with the latter perhaps being slightly better in any case.

Filtering
Most filters operate with speeds and error rates withing a few % of each other. In some instances, filters that use lower quality parts or have been subject to moisture may have corroded enough to cause lower sync speeds and more errors. Since you are using the one supplied with the modem, I can't see it causing a problem if it is new unless it does contain lower quality parts.

Internal wiring
The second link at the start of my post may be a good place to start with that. The ring wire is unecessary in modern telephony, and if you still have it attached then it could be having an impact as it can pick up interference. Likewise for any extenstions that are actively attached to the master socket - they too can pick up interference, especially if they run through the house near devices that utilise frequencies used by broadband, or if they are faulty and emit noise on the same frequencies.

I cannot really comment on the brown box, but perhaps if you supply a photo then someone here will be able to comment. But if I have understood your post correctly, you are using an internal extension to use the router elsewhere in the house?
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on February 15, 2018, 12:04:55 PM
the ring wires are disconneted at all points, that was something i did a long time ago.
this is the brown box i spoke of (although this is just a google image, but it's the same)

(http://www.telephonesuk.co.uk/images/large/52a.jpg)

and yes, the router is connected eleswhere in the house, as the master socket is situated in a place where a router simply couldn't be placed.

the extension socket is hard wired to the master socket, and it runs to where the router is, and that is the only thing connected to the extension.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: re0 on February 15, 2018, 12:44:30 PM
Ah, it's a Block Terminal. Those are typically used to join the drop wire to internal wiring if I am not mistaken (this is well before my time :baby:). This is property of BT (Openreach divison, as it is now), so even if it was causing some minor errors or lower sync speeds due to corrosion you cannot tamper with it and Openreach would be very unwilling to sort it without a fee (unless it was causing serious problems with your service).

It sounds like, to me, you have the network setup in the way that best suits yourself, and you are receiving the speeds that would be acceptable for your attenuation and consideration of your distance (of course, the line will be longer than line-of-sight distance). If you're getting the speeds estimated by Plusnet then I would advise you to just enjoy them, and it looks like your speeds should stay around this rate based on the current MTBE, unless it is a relatively new cabinet as additional subscribers will add to the crosstalk (which in turn may degrade the speed, but we cannot know by how much until it happens).

If you are not happy with the speed and error rate and want to investigate, you could plug the router directly into the test socket and observe the stats for a certain period of time (maybe a week or so) to see if that makes any difference. But as you said, the master socket exists where the router could not be placed so I would understand if this was not a possibility for you.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: tubaman on February 15, 2018, 01:00:50 PM
Ah, the old 'bar of soap' connection box - they used to come in lovely colours (seven I believe - Black, Ivory, Red, Green, Grey, Topaz, Concorde-Blue  :-[) to match the phones at the time.
It it were me I'd give the screws a little tweak just to check they are still nice and tight (it'd be our secret - I won't tell Openreach ;)). You might even find some insects inside that need re-homing. ;D
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on February 15, 2018, 01:11:10 PM
ah this isn't about not being happy about speeds.
it just about seeing it anything more can be squeezed from it.

i'm already getting a steady 8.1MB/s download speeds (from usenet), which can't be complained about (compared to 1.8MB/s before upgrade).

i could probably shorten the internal extension wiring and use cat5e/6 instead of CW1308, but that would just be about making everything optimal.

my previous router was a billion 880nl, and only changed because it only had N wifi.
the fritzbox has AC and is quite feature rich.
i prefer combined modem/router rather than having separate boxes, so unless there a good reason to switch to a broadcom chip this will probably do the job.

i know my way around cabling, so if i felt inclined i suppose, technically i could move the master socket, as it's only using CW1308 from the block terminal to where it currently sits. of course that would technically be against openreach policy, but what they don't know etc etc....
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: burakkucat on February 15, 2018, 06:04:01 PM
Ah, a BT52A (where the "BT" is an abbreviation for "Block Terminal"). They were first introduced with the type 706 telephone in the late 1950s. It would be worthwhile taking a quick look inside, "just in case" but normally they are no problem.  :)
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: re0 on February 15, 2018, 09:46:23 PM
In any case, using higher grade cabling will help but the biggest difference will come from shortening the amount of distance the signal has to travel. Then again, unless there was something wrong with the existing cables or terminals then it isn't going to make any noticeable difference.

The 8800NL has a better modem, but even still I do not think that in this case it would necessarily make a significant difference to your speed to use it, or at least not immediately but maybe through prolonged stability and less errors which would allow the DLM to make positive changes to your parameters. If you still have the 8800NL, the only way to find out would be to use it in modem (bridge) mode and then authenticate on PPPoE over the bridge on the 3490. And in that scenario, you could have the 8800NL at the master socket (with the extension disconnected, as it could act like an antenna for interference) and run cable to where you want the 3490 to be.

As I said before in a previous post:
. . . you could plug the router directly into the test socket and observe the stats for a certain period of time (maybe a week or so) to see if that makes any difference . . .
That is probably the best way to see if you can get more speed.
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: chenks on February 16, 2018, 08:10:03 AM
there is no power socket anywhere near the master socket.
so connecting anything to it is simply not an option.

as i said though, this is not a situation of being unhappy with speeds, quite the opposite.
it was simply to see if anything more could be squeezed from the line.

being on "amber" for DLM is somewhat concerning though?
i have a very stable line, i have had uptimes that have lasted months (when on ADSL before upgrade).
Title: Re: Fritz Box 3490 - Plusnet 80/20 settings
Post by: re0 on February 16, 2018, 10:04:23 AM
The DLM will attempt to give you the best speeds it thinks your line, while still remaining stable and within thresholds, can receive based on the data it collects.

I would consider having an Amber status on the Dynamic Line Management (DLM) system to be OK, or in other words stable but not outstanding enough to warrant any positive changes (or corrective changes if outstandingly bad). As long as your MTBE (which consists of ES and SES) is at or above 30 (since your ISP is on the Speed DLM profile) - so one error in the form of ES or SES every 30 or more seconds on average - then your speed or latency should never be negatively impacted. Since your current error rate is five times lower than that (MTBE of 150 when I averaged your totals), you have a healthy margin and should not see much lower speeds (while crosstalk and other interference factors may reduce the available spectrum available, any further changes should not be from the DLM itself but other external factors unless it impacts the MTBE).

Since the monitoring period for the DLM is from 00:00 to 23:59:59, if you experience a very high burst of errors during this timeframe that exceeds the thresholds then you can anticipate changes the next day that may reduce your sync speed (such as banding) and increase latency (such as interleaving). Although the interleaving tends to not to be applied on lines that have G.INP support from the Cabinet since the latter has a lesser overhead and nil impact on latency.

In order to see improvements on your line, you would need to attain or exceed an MTBE or 300 to have a Green status. Having a Green status just means that the DLM will make changes to remove any banding, interleaving (if it was applied before) and lower the noise margin.

You can read more about the DLM here: http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm (http://www.kitz.co.uk/adsl/DLM.htm).