Print Page - DLM changed my line profile

I was shocked to see Openreach engineer working on my FTTC cabinet and then few hours later, my broadband went down for two hours and come back online. I was checked the modem stats and can't believe that openreach has adjusted G.INP on the cabinet. It's used to be G.INP on downstream of interleave depth 16 and fast path on upstream with no interleave. But, now it set G.INP enabled on both downstream and upstream of interleave depth 8 on both. Also openreach has make change to reduced IP Profile set at 74.1Mb as it used to be 77.35Mb. What is going on?

My sync rate was the same as before and now on 79999K/20000K.

[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: adslmax on November 11, 2017, 07:05:59 PM

I was shocked to see Openreach engineer working on my FTTC cabinet

They didn't inform you about this in advance? :P

There have been two different levels of retransmission (G.INP) available for a long time, set by the DLM.

So it's probably now on a "Retransmission High" profile for the downstream, which has been noted to have a lower IP Profile percentage. Nothing G.INP related will have been changed by the engineer working in the cabinet. Perhaps the work caused a lot of errors and upset the DLM somehow.

Updated on GEA Test Result sent from Plusnet. It's appear that Plusnet Hub One has ruined it to kick in DLM against it after Hub One has rebooted it few times to updated the software version. So, I went back to Billion 8800NL router.

Perfectly normal.
G.INP applied to upstream.
Retransmission low increased to retransmission high. This is the reason for the lower I.P Profile.

No wonder we do HATE BT DLM! Bloody stupid DLM.

Very angry now :no: :no: Something going on with the cabinet. Another DLM again after resync after stable connection for 23 hours with Billion router. I am fed up with this. What is caused this? The BT IP Profile now drop to 68.5 Mb from 74.1Mb. Really peed me off. The DLM love to lower my speed what a disgrace BT DLM system shouldn't be placed for fibre

Going to ask Plusnet to get it DLM reset or I will cancel the fibre broadband for good. Not paying for 68Meg as I am paying for 76Meg.

[attachment deleted by admin]

I'm going to assume that 74Mb is less than the low end of your speed estimate, so presumably Plusnet will readily book an Openreach visit.

I'd love to be able to get 68Meg - my lines top speed is about 48meg (sync, not throughput)!

Plusnet will likely be reluctant to get a reset performed unless there is a fault, which at the moment there does not appear to be.
If DLM continues to take action each day then maybe they will listen, but I doubt they will yet unless, as ejs has said, you are below the low end of your estimate.
Good luck.
:)

I have now raised the fault via PN.

The line has been banded at 74Mb by DLM.
This is usually due to multiple resyncs in a short time period.
Resyncing the line will likely make it worse so I would leave well alone. Let Plusnet respond and take it from there.

How can I tell if the line has been banded by DLM. I haven't touch the billion router for 23 hours and it just resync itself

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32812 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90326 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73998 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.1            14.0
Attn(dB):        11.5            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5           -0.6

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              146             81
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              8               8
S:              0.0630          0.1295
L:              19683           5560
D:              8               4
I:              155             90
N:              155             90
Q:              8               4
V:              4               1
RxQueue:                140             135
TxQueue:                35              27
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         31              27
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              6.4000          16.0000
L:              40              16
D:              3               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             483582680               4281413
RSCorr:         37              85
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            476077          477955
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             4760155         1911823
RSCorr:         0               1
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         105551          81
rtx_c:          21              165
rtx_uc:         73736           25526

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         10              10
minEFTR:        73985           19997
errFreeBits:    214819084               32392908

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    1088203191              0
Data Cells:     10447612                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             11              0
SES:            11              0
UAS:            64              53
AS:             7648

                        Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           55.00
INPRein:        1.00            1.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            74377.87        20184.26

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            4.00
INPRein:        4.50            4.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             79.68           31.87
AgR:            79.68   31.87

Bitswap:        3/3             2/2

Total time = 1 days 1 hours 37 min 7 sec
FEC:            5631            961
CRC:            562             0
ES:             11              0
SES:            11              0
UAS:            64              53
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 7 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 37 min 7 sec
FEC:            4               6
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            5627            955
CRC:            562             0
ES:             11              0
SES:            11              0
UAS:            64              53
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 2 hours 7 min 27 sec
FEC:            37              85
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

Waits for Plusnet to come back with your MGAL :-\

I hope adslmax doesn't think it's below the low end of the estimate based on the IP Profile.

Quote from: adslmax on November 12, 2017, 06:55:18 PM

How can I tell if the line has been banded by DLM. I haven't touch the billion router for 23 hours and it just resync itself

Code: [Select]
adsl info --stats adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status Status: Showtime Last Retrain Reason: 1 Last initialization procedure status: 0 Max: Upstream rate = 32812 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90326 Kbps Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73998 Kbps Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps Link Power State: L0 Mode: VDSL2 Annex B VDSL2 Profile: Profile 17a TPS-TC: PTM Mode(0x0) Trellis: U:ON /D:ON Line Status: No Defect Training Status: Showtime Down Up SNR (dB): 10.1 14.0 Attn(dB): 11.5 0.0 Pwr(dBm): 12.5 -0.6 VDSL2 framing Bearer 0 MSGc: -6 -6 B: 146 81 M: 1 1 T: 0 0 R: 8 8 S: 0.0630 0.1295 L: 19683 5560 D: 8 4 I: 155 90 N: 155 90 Q: 8 4 V: 4 1 RxQueue: 140 135 TxQueue: 35 27 G.INP Framing: 18 18 G.INP lookback: 31 27 RRC bits: 24 24 Bearer 1 MSGc: 154 58 B: 0 0 M: 2 2 T: 2 2 R: 16 16 S: 6.4000 16.0000 L: 40 16 D: 3 1 I: 32 32 N: 32 32 Q: 0 0 V: 0 0 RxQueue: 0 0 TxQueue: 0 0 G.INP Framing: 0 0 G.INP lookback: 0 0 RRC bits: 0 0 Counters Bearer 0 OHF: 0 0 OHFErr: 0 0 RS: 483582680 4281413 RSCorr: 37 85 RSUnCorr: 0 0 Bearer 1 OHF: 476077 477955 OHFErr: 0 0 RS: 4760155 1911823 RSCorr: 0 1 RSUnCorr: 0 0 Retransmit Counters rtx_tx: 105551 81 rtx_c: 21 165 rtx_uc: 73736 25526 G.INP Counters LEFTRS: 10 10 minEFTR: 73985 19997 errFreeBits: 214819084 32392908 Bearer 0 HEC: 0 0 OCD: 0 0 LCD: 0 0 Total Cells: 1088203191 0 Data Cells: 10447612 0 Drop Cells: 0 Bit Errors: 0 0 Bearer 1 HEC: 0 0 OCD: 0 0 LCD: 0 0 Total Cells: 0 0 Data Cells: 0 0 Drop Cells: 0 Bit Errors: 0 0 ES: 11 0 SES: 11 0 UAS: 64 53 AS: 7648 Bearer 0 INP: 52.00 55.00 INPRein: 1.00 1.00 delay: 0 0 PER: 0.00 0.00 OR: 0.01 0.01 AgR: 74377.87 20184.26 Bearer 1 INP: 4.50 4.00 INPRein: 4.50 4.00 delay: 3 0 PER: 16.06 16.06 OR: 79.68 31.87 AgR: 79.68 31.87 Bitswap: 3/3 2/2 Total time = 1 days 1 hours 37 min 7 sec FEC: 5631 961 CRC: 562 0 ES: 11 0 SES: 11 0 UAS: 64 53 LOS: 1 0 LOF: 8 0 LOM: 0 0 Latest 15 minutes time = 7 min 7 sec FEC: 0 0 CRC: 0 0 ES: 0 0 SES: 0 0 UAS: 0 0 LOS: 0 0 LOF: 0 0 LOM: 0 0 Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec FEC: 0 0 CRC: 0 0 ES: 0 0 SES: 0 0 UAS: 0 0 LOS: 0 0 LOF: 0 0 LOM: 0 0 Latest 1 day time = 1 hours 37 min 7 sec FEC: 4 6 CRC: 0 0 ES: 0 0 SES: 0 0 UAS: 0 0 LOS: 0 0 LOF: 0 0 LOM: 0 0 Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec FEC: 5627 955 CRC: 562 0 ES: 11 0 SES: 11 0 UAS: 64 53 LOS: 1 0 LOF: 8 0 LOM: 0 0 Since Link time = 2 hours 7 min 27 sec FEC: 37 85 CRC: 0 0 ES: 0 0 SES: 0 0 UAS: 0 0 LOS: 0 0 LOF: 0 0 LOM: 0 0 >

It will show in the GEA test. It wasn't banded during the 1st GEA test, but now it is. The sync of 73998 tells me it's banded.

Also posted on the Plusnet forum here (https://community.plus.net/t5/Fibre-Broadband/Openreach-make-change-G-INP-amp-IP-Profile-on-huawei-cabinet/m-p/1490708).

Yes sometimes PN staff come here or PN forum. Thanks.

Latest full connection stats:

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 32945 Kbps, Downstream rate = 90668 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73998 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.1            14.2
Attn(dB):        11.5            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5           -0.7

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              146             81
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              8               8
S:              0.0630          0.1295
L:              19683           5560
D:              8               4
I:              155             90
N:              155             90
Q:              8               4
V:              4               1
RxQueue:                140             135
TxQueue:                35              27
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         31              27
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              6.4000          16.0000
L:              40              16
D:              3               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             3868471680              4086278
RSCorr:         310             854
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            3807999         677716
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             38079377                2408876
RSCorr:         0               6
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         105571          217
rtx_c:          41              301
rtx_uc:         73736           25526

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         10              10
minEFTR:        74004           20000
errFreeBits:    275240413               48716194

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    114268075               0
Data Cells:     35726443                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             11              0
SES:            11              0
UAS:            64              53
AS:             61176

                        Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           55.00
INPRein:        1.00            1.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            74377.87        20184.26

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            4.00
INPRein:        4.50            4.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             79.68           31.87
AgR:            79.68   31.87

Bitswap:        4/4             107/107

Total time = 1 days 16 hours 29 min 15 sec
FEC:            5904            1730
CRC:            562             0
ES:             11              0
SES:            11              0
UAS:            64              53
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 14 min 15 sec
FEC:            24              11
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            3               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 16 hours 29 min 15 sec
FEC:            277             775
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            5627            955
CRC:            562             0
ES:             11              0
SES:            11              0
UAS:            64              53
LOS:            1               0
LOF:            8               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 16 hours 59 min 35 sec
FEC:            310             854
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

We don't have full stats to see what happened on the day. Wouldn't be too surprised if activity at the cab has perhaps caused SNRm to start oscillating and subsequently errors to start racking up and DLM takes note. If it was one of the oscillating SNRm factors that we do see from time to time on various routers after a cab outage or power cut, the a quick reboot seldom clears it and it needs a full modem power down.

Why he was using the HubOne when he has a Billion available I've no idea. Because DLM doesn't take action until the next day, then the damage could have already been done before he put the Billion back on. :(

If he is fortunate he may be able to get a DLM reset. Plusnet arent one of those who can request it yet on the new system (neither are BTr come to that). Problem now is trying to get an OR engineer visit to do a full reset.
If this is first offence then DLM could be more lenient, but the fact it now appears to be banded doesnt look too good :/

Quote from: ejs on November 12, 2017, 08:04:46 PM

I hope adslmax doesn't think it's below the low end of the estimate based on the IP Profile.

Once upon a time adslmax and I used to have very similar line stats and similar atten. Over the years I've lost quite a lot of headline speed to cross-talk. Max is one of the very few fortunates who is on a vectored cab and reaped back any cross-talk losses.

Me I'm stuck on an ECI cab with no hope of vectoring and things like G.INP and xdB looking increasingly slim.
According to Openreach my speed range estimate is 80-69.1

There have been times when my sync speed is below that when DLM kicks in, but PN refuse to do anything because the MGAL is 63.1.
It's why I have to watch my line so close because when it starts oscillating, DLM kicks in and there is not much I can do. One of the reasons if I migrated anywhere else it would have to be someone who uses Speed profile otherwise I'd get stuck even worse. Aside from watching out for the oscillations and trying to catch it before DLM notices, then there's no point me stressing out.

@ kitz The reason I use Hub One because of better wifi than the Billion. But I did shutdown for 40 minutes to avoid DLM. Before was on 79999k / 19999k on Billion for so long time. Then Hub One boot up as of 79903k/19999k then saw engineer worked at the cabinet and lost my broadband for few hours then it come back with same sync at 79903k/19999k then the hub one updated version and it resync but DLM kick in at 71Meg and I have to shutdown for 30 minutes to swap back to Billion router because I lost faith on Hub One because of updated version keep rebooted it. Now back on Billion router on 71Meg for approx 23 hours and again 2nd time DLM kick in and went down to 68Meg. Sync still ongoing for 20 hours at 73998k/2000k but was banded at 73Meg.

I have to stay with Billion until I find a good wifi router to put on WAN port. The plusnet hub one going to be stay in the cupboard for good. (that hub one has ruined DLM on my line)

[attachment deleted by admin]

The Billion/Zyxel has the better DSL chipset so its going to make the best of your line.

Unfort the wifi isnt that great... you could however have best of both world by using the Billion for modem in bridge mode and the HubOne for wifi?

Quote from: kitz on November 13, 2017, 02:07:07 PM

Unfort the wifi isnt that great... you could however have best of both world by using the Billion for modem in bridge mode and the HubOne for wifi?

I don't know how to do it. modem in bridge mode and use HubOne for wifi. I better leave it alone until DLM put my line back on 79999k/19999k but I do fear it might not happen now for so long time to wait and might not removed banded.

I was thinking if I downgrade to 40/10 will it reset everything on DLM then upgrade back to 80/20? Don't think PN won't allow this.

Quote from: adslmax on November 13, 2017, 02:13:50 PM

I don't know how to do it. modem in bridge mode and use HubOne for wifi. I better leave it alone until DLM put my line back on 79999k/19999k but I do fear it might not happen now for so long time to wait and might not removed banded.

I was thinking if I downgrade to 40/10 will it reset everything on DLM then upgrade back to 80/20? Don't think PN won't allow this.

Easiest way would be to disable the WiFi on the Billion (this wont cause a re sync so don't worry about upsetting DLM).
Login to the Hub One and disable DHCP Server and set the IP address of the Hub One to 192.168.1.253 so it doesn't conflict with your Billions IP.
Connect an Ethernet cable from a LAN port on the hub one to a LAN port on the Billion.
That will mean your Billion will still handle everything on your network and your Hub One will be used as a wireless access point.

Quote from: gazaai on November 13, 2017, 02:43:52 PM

Easiest way would be to disable the WiFi on the Billion (this wont cause a re sync so don't worry about upsetting DLM).
Login to the Hub One and disable DHCP Server and set the IP address of the Hub One to 192.168.1.253 so it doesn't conflict with your Billions IP.
Connect an Ethernet cable from a LAN port on the hub one to a LAN port on the Billion.
That will mean your Billion will still handle everything on your network and your Hub One will be used as a wireless access point.

Thanks will try that! :)

@ kitz

Sadly PN say no to engineer to reset DLM and say my line isn't on banded either.

Really peel me off now. Wish I never swap with hub one in the first place as a modem as DLM get very upset on it as Plusnet Hub One shouldn't sold as it unfit for purpose modem router. I agree with kitz as Billion modem are best one for DSLAM on the fibre cabinet as DLM will like Billion but strange as Openreach didn't passed the certificate for any Billion router, how odd.

I have to wait until DLM to restore it back to 79999/19999 but how long to wait?

@ gazaai

I did what you say about hub one as the wifi only but sadly it didn't work. Do I have to make sure billion is on bridge mode? If so, then I cannot touch it at the moment because DLM is on it for a moment. So, I best leave Billion modem alone.

Quote from: kitz on November 13, 2017, 01:44:32 PM

Once upon a time adslmax and I used to have very similar line stats and similar atten. Over the years I've lost quite a lot of headline speed to cross-talk. Max is one of the very few fortunates who is on a vectored cab and reaped back any cross-talk losses.

? adslmax's stats had vectoring state 5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED). I just thought they'd always got the full 80/20 speed, until now.

It proved BT fibre is waste of time of copper wire. It's time to call for TRUE FIBRE all the way to the home. Why Waste of time of stupid DLM on FTTC plus G.Fast (soon) as there is no need for any DLM on fibre for god's sake.

Everyones should complaint to OFCOM to stop BT cheat the system to lower everyone's sync rate due to unfit for purpose DLM system.

Quote from: ejs on November 13, 2017, 04:31:30 PM

? adslmax's stats had vectoring state 5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED). I just thought they'd always got the full 80/20 speed, until now.

Oh. I thought max said in the past his line had vectoring :hmm: I thought he even provided some stats on Cuckoo something to show that it was.

(VECT_UNCONFIGURED)
My mistake if its no longer vectored, but I'm puzzled.. perhaps I recall wrong. If so apologies.
But we definitely did have similar stats a few years ago before x-talk got me.

Quote from: adslmax on November 13, 2017, 04:21:23 PM

Sadly PN say no to engineer to reset DLM and say my line isn't on banded either.

Looks like it is to me. As per j0hn's post 73998 with SNRm of 10dB is an obvious sign.
btw the report that Plusnet gets for the profile can sometimes not be quite up to date. I've seen it several times including on my own line.

Quote

Plusnet Hub One shouldn't sold as it unfit for purpose modem router. I agree with kitz as Billion modem are best one for DSLAM on the fibre cabinet as DLM will like Billion but strange as Openreach didn't passed the certificate for any Billion router, how odd.

It works fine for most people, but some of us are a bit more of shall I say a perfectionist when it comes to modem choice and which modem chipset is best.
Its kinda like a car. A lot of people are perfectly happy with a Ford Focus, whilst others want an Audi and various engine types.
The chipset in most ISP issued modems are cheap.

It may not have been entirely fault of the modem.. If and not I say IF, your modem entered into freak-out mode after the DSLAM was powered down for some reason, then it could just have easily happened with any modem. However, if you'd had the Billion on and had monitored stats, then we would have a record of errors and what was happening with your SNRM.

Quote

I have to wait until DLM to restore it back to 79999/19999 but how long to wait?

We dont know I'm afraid... its a bit of a mystery.

Quote from: adslmax on November 13, 2017, 04:34:43 PM

It proved BT fibre is waste of time of copper wire. It's time to call for TRUE FIBRE all the way to the home. Why Waste of time of stupid DLM on FTTC plus G.Fast (soon) as there is no need for any DLM on fibre for god's sake.

Everyones should complaint to OFCOM to stop BT cheat the system to lower everyone's sync rate due to unfit for purpose DLM system.

Woah... whilst we would all love FTTH/FTTP the problem is cost. No one else is willing to do so to all areas.
Oddly the way Openreach is rolling out does make sense to me.. gradually they are getting closer to home to as many premises as they can. Whilst its not immediate, IMHO its better than the alternative of just installing Fibre in the profitable areas and leaving the rest to dial up. But thats a topic in itself. There's a lot of history behind it.

DLM... well all providers have to have some sort of DLM. Yes there are bits about Openreaches that I dont like and it needs an overhaul... it seemed to work OK up until a few years ago, but since then there have been a few bodges because of ASSIA, G.INP & 'x'dB. You don't really hear that many complaints about the BTwholesale DLM. Saying they are doing it to cheat the system seems a bit strong though :/

Oh great can't believe it. The whole of our area got power loss. No electricity. I have to unplugged billion must in case power might come back intermittent will upset DLM. Not great day.

Quote from: kitz on November 13, 2017, 05:43:09 PM

<snip>
. . . I thought he even provided some stats on Cuckoo something to show that it was.
<snip>

Cuckoo Oak (WNCKO (https://availability.samknows.com/broadband/exchange/WNCKO)).

@b*cat. Thank you. All I could remember was the Cuckoo bit.

---

Quote

Interference Pattern Regular Interference Observed Daily
Service Impact Retrains Observed

Just had a look at your post over on the PN forums. I seldom go there and don't follow, but I have made a reply.
I'm not going to be monitoring it... so if Anoush can get a report of the ILQ counters I'd be interested in seeing it.

Judging from the above that I quoted, it looks like your line has been behaving oddly for a few days.
Whether or not it started before the engineer was working on the cab is something we dont know because your line wasnt being monitored.

Quote from: adslmax on November 13, 2017, 06:38:42 PM

Oh great can't believe it. The whole of our area got power loss. No electricity. I have to unplugged billion must in case power might come back intermittent will upset DLM. Not great day.

I'm assuming Max is posting via his mobile phone, so I don't expect a quick response . . . .

Quote from: kitz on November 13, 2017, 06:52:31 PM

Judging from the above that I quoted, it looks like your line has been behaving oddly for a few days.
Whether or not it started before the engineer was working on the cab is something we dont know because your line wasnt being monitored.

However . . . Could the interference have be due to instability in the area's power supply? A joint breaking down, perhaps?

No idea. Could be multiple things.

Power problems can cause erractic SNRm and spiking which could trigger DLM.
A power outage can cause oscillating SNRm with wont clear until a period of complete modem power down and restart.

Could there have even been an existing problem at the DSLAM which is why Openreach was there to fix it.
Without knowing when it started we are in the dark.
I'm not sure if Plusnet can get data on the ILQ counter status but thought it was worth asking, as they might be able to.

Still no power around Madeley and cuckoo oak area. Using my mobile 4g for now. Say the Western power distribution online using mobile Internet via 4G on mobile

Quote from: kitz on November 13, 2017, 06:10:00 PM

Woah... whilst we would all love FTTH/FTTP the problem is cost. No one else is willing to do so to all areas.
Oddly the way Openreach is rolling out does make sense to me.. gradually they are getting closer to home to as many premises as they can. Whilst its not immediate, IMHO its better than the alternative of just installing Fibre in the profitable areas and leaving the rest to dial up. But thats a topic in itself. There's a lot of history behind it.

Unfortunately the post I made here concerning a very relevant announcement today by BT that they are going to kill the copper network and go all fibre has been moved from here so you'll have to go and find it here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20563.0.html) now

All electricity power now back on. Hope DLM won't act again! There is an engineer outside of the footpath nearby the fibre cabinet to do some work. That's probably spark the power cut off.

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

Nice email from dslwebstats to alert me

Quote

Hi adslmax

This is to let you know that a resync/restart occurred on your line at 20:45 on Monday 13th November 2017 local time (+/- 1 minute).

Reason: 0 Loss of Service

Current Downstream Sync Rate is now 73998kbps @ 10.4db SNRM. Attainable is 90751kbps
Current Upstream Sync Rate is now 20000kbps @ 14.1db SNRM. Attainable is 33173kbps
as measured at the time of this email.

When I had the powercuts a few weeks back, prior to that I suspect a power line was interfering with the line as since they fixed it I'm back up to 73, up from 63.

Hopefully after the power is fixed maybe your line stability will come back.

I do hope so! I doubt it.

Before power cut:

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):    11.5      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps):   73998      20000

After power restored:

Downstream   Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):    11.4      0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):   Not available on VDSL2
Connection speed (kbps):   73998      20000

Quote from: tbailey2 on November 13, 2017, 08:08:29 PM

Unfortunately the post I made here concerning a very relevant announcement today by BT that they are going to kill the copper network and go all fibre has been moved from here so you'll have to go and find it here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20563.0.html) now

Thanks Tony, just read it now. Lots hope it comes to fruition.

@ kitz I just checking billion sync rate and ran btw speedtest to fetch bras ip profile. That's doesn't make any sense? Between 73Meg and 68Meg (that's 5Meg loss from the profile of 96.69% to the sync rate? Rather confused.

It is looking likely that the 2 could be related. As I said very early on in the thread power outages is something that we see trigger DLM.
It would be interesting to know why the engineer was at the cab a couple of days ago though.
According to the GEA results whatever it is has been happening for a few days.

Ideally a wide area event should have stopped DLM intervention, but if it was only related to your cab rather than all Huawei cabs connected to your Head end exchange that could explain that. We could theorise until the cows come home, but I doubt we shall know the facts.

If 4,200 households were affected, then this wasn't something in the local distribution network, and highly unlikely to have been caused by an Openreach engineer.

According to this page on substations (http://www.emfs.info/sources/substations/), a primary substation (33kV -> 11kV) is likely to serve 5k-30k premises, and seems the most likely area for a fault.

I had a look on the Western power site earlier, before his power came back up
https://www.westernpower.co.uk/Power-outages/Power-cuts-in-your-area/Power-Cut-Map.aspx

The status has now changed so I cant pull it up again, but I can recall for Max's area is that it said ETA clear time was 8pm and that the number of affected properties was something like 280 in TF7.
Whilst I can't recall the exact figure, it was only a few hundred when I looked at about 7:30pm.. not 4.2k

Maybe that was part-restored? The 4,200 came from Max's own image.

Looking at Western's twitter feed, I'm amazed at just how many power cuts they're reporting across the day!

The pattern of recovery (something blows once, but then needs to be recovered in stages) makes me wonder what blows, and what/where they need to fix things.

The power is restore at approx 8.40pm as my Billion modem switch on at 8:45pm. Down for approx 2 hours.

Quote from: adslmax on November 13, 2017, 09:45:40 PM

@ kitz I just checking billion sync rate and ran btw speedtest to fetch bras ip profile. That's doesn't make any sense? Between 73Meg and 68Meg (that's 5Meg loss from the profile of 96.69% to the sync rate? Rather confused.

It's to be expected on a Retransmission High profile. The IP Profile then works out at about 91-92% of the modem line rate (and about 96.7% of the lower speed reported by the GEA Test).

It's now been 15 hours since power loss restored at 8:45pm last night but no sign of DLM action yet.

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 33204 Kbps, Downstream rate = 91584 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73998 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.5            14.2
Attn(dB):        11.4            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5           -1.0

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              146             81
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              8               8
S:              0.0630          0.1295
L:              19683           5560
D:              8               4
I:              155             90
N:              155             90
Q:              8               4
V:              4               1
RxQueue:                140             135
TxQueue:                35              27
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         31              27
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              6.4000          16.0000
L:              40              16
D:              3               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             3606061968              460967
RSCorr:         199             378
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            3549696         418353
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             35496342                1371423
RSCorr:         3               3
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         105590          45
rtx_c:          16              496
rtx_uc:         0               63514

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               15
minEFTR:        73976           20000
errFreeBits:    64370466                75231982

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    3818813807              0
Data Cells:     18915811                0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
AS:             57027

                        Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           55.00
INPRein:        1.00            1.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            74377.87        20184.26

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            4.00
INPRein:        4.50            4.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             79.68           31.87
AgR:            79.68   31.87

Bitswap:        55/55           167/167

Total time = 15 hours 50 min 53 sec
FEC:            199             378
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 5 min 53 sec
FEC:            0               15
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 15 hours 50 min 53 sec
FEC:            199             378
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 0 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 15 hours 50 min 25 sec
FEC:            199             378
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

[attachment deleted by admin]

DLM responds to patience.

Quote from: adslmax on November 14, 2017, 12:44:58 PM

It's now been 15 hours since power loss restored at 8:45pm last night but no sign of DLM action yet.

Is there anything you can't do with 74Mb that you could with 80Mb?
If you weren't watching your stats you wouldn't even have noticed it.
It will fix itself in time. No point checking everyday though as it's more likely to take weeks than days to remove the banding.

Quote from: WWWombat on November 14, 2017, 01:29:48 PM

DLM responds to patience.

And, of course, unnecessary fiddling.

Quote from: burakkucat on November 14, 2017, 05:02:21 PM

And, of course, unnecessary fiddling.

Oh yes. DLM can detect even if you are just thinking about fiddling.

Not a lot of people know that.

Right I been checking how it goes so far after 27 hours now. Still on 73/20. I don't mind to wait until DLM restore it self. I haven't touch or fiddle with Billion as I just leave it alone until DLM act against it.

You could just use your connection rather than checking its speed obsessively. That'd make the wait for DLM to relent pass far more quickly.

I work from home, work in IT, etc, and it took me days to notice that my TalkTalk Business line was banded.

Very interesting. This much the same as my sync rate drop from 80000k/20000k to 73998k/20000k see picture below

[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: adslmax on November 13, 2017, 04:25:57 PM

@ gazaai

I did what you say about hub one as the wifi only but sadly it didn't work. Do I have to make sure billion is on bridge mode? If so, then I cannot touch it at the moment because DLM is on it for a moment. So, I best leave Billion modem alone.

@adslmax

It definitely works I've used several HomeHub 4,5s and one PlusNet on my network as access points with my Billion.

No you don't put the Billion in bridge mode as we still want to use the Billion as your router.
Are you sure you connected the Plusnet to the Billion with an Ethernet from a LAN port on both devices. Not a WAN port.
Also if there is Smart Setup on the plus net disable it.
Your screenshot of the DHCP looks fine, just double check there is nothing on your network that uses 192.168.1.253 already as that would cause an issue as well.
Also I assume you are using the Billions default DHCP range and its IP is 192.168.1.254?

Silly me, I put on WAN port. How daft I am. Billion default ip address is 192.168.1.254

Quote from: adslmax on November 16, 2017, 10:38:59 AM

Silly me, I put on WAN port. How daft I am. Billion default ip address is 192.168.1.254

Ah there we go give that a shot then, and it should work perfectly for you :fingers:

Can G.Inp be enabled for a single line/circuit or does it have to be switched on for the whole DSLAM/ISAM?

Quote from: bilbokitz on November 16, 2017, 01:15:47 PM

Can G.Inp be enabled for a single line/circuit or does it have to be switched on for the whole DSLAM/ISAM?

It's line/circuit specific.

Great, so theoretically my isp should be able to get it enabled for my line if I ask :fingers:

Quote from: bilbokitz on November 16, 2017, 02:13:40 PM

Great, so theoretically my isp should be able to get it enabled for my line if I ask :fingers:

Nope, DLM controls it automatically. The ISP can't request it be enabled manually.

Okay, understood now. Thank you

Yes and bloody DLM. See here: https://www.openreach.co.uk/orpg/home/updates/briefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefings/super-fastfibreaccessbriefingsarticles/nga04217.do

Be interesting to see how well G.fast handles changing line conditions. Should be a smoother experience than VDSL :)

Quote from: gazaai on November 16, 2017, 10:51:47 AM

Ah there we go give that a shot then, and it should work perfectly for you :fingers:

May I ask you. Is this correct to set up the following below:

Billion IP will be 192.168.1.254
Hub One IP will be 192.168.1.253 (Smart Setup disabled & DHCP Server disabled)

Billion WAN port to Hub One LAN port or Billion LAN port to Hub One WAN port or Billion LAN port to Hub One LAN port?

Quote from: Ignitionnet on November 15, 2017, 10:00:26 AM

601 Mbps down 41Mbps up with Virgin Media

How on earth you manage to have virgin media 600/40? My goodness me :P

Magic. Good, isn't it? :)

Bonding cable x 2?

Quote from: adslmax on November 16, 2017, 07:23:15 PM

May I ask you. Is this correct to set up the following below:

Billion IP will be 192.168.1.254
Hub One IP will be 192.168.1.253 (Smart Setup disabled & DHCP Server disabled)

Billion WAN port to Hub One LAN port or Billion LAN port to Hub One WAN port or Billion LAN port to Hub One LAN port?

Yeah they settings are correct and the last one:
Billion LAN port to Hub One LAN port.

Hope this helps

Quote from: gazaai on November 17, 2017, 11:31:59 AM

Yeah they settings are correct and the last one:
Billion LAN port to Hub One LAN port.

Hope this helps

Yippe, working now :) But only one annoying is Plusnet Hub One front kept flashing orange on/off and also red symbol as well. Any idea of how to turn these off?

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: adslmax on November 17, 2017, 04:48:49 PM

But only one annoying is Plusnet Hub One front kept flashing orange on/off and also red symbol as well. Any idea of how to turn these off?

Perhaps just cover them with some black masking-tape? :-\

Why I never thought of this! Thanks. :P

Still on DLM. Nothing has changed yet. Oh well, I think it probably down to crosstalk more likely to be. Probably have to accepted it. End of. As I do understand FTTC is up to 76Mbps. Can't win can we?

Question is does DLM count FEC total?

Code: [Select]

Total time = 3 days 20 hours 39 min 29 sec
FEC:            1066            2222
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 9 min 29 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            10              2
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 20 hours 39 min 29 sec
FEC:            326             319
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            178             827
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 3 days 20 hours 39 min 1 sec
FEC:            1066            2222

Quote from: adslmax on November 17, 2017, 05:23:21 PM

Still on DLM. Nothing has changed yet.

Please see previous posts about patience.

Expect to be counting in multiple days, at the very minimum. It could be months. For some, over a year.

Quote from: WWWombat on November 17, 2017, 05:44:54 PM

It could be months. For some, over a year.

This is disgrace of how BT system work. It's a cheat to the system. BT are happy to reduced your sync rate more quickly but leave it for a very long time to increase sync rate is a bloody joke.

It's should give a maximum of 2-4 days to restore it back if stable. Not months or year!

Can't really decide something is 'stable' based on 2-4 days of stats.

If you weren't obsessively looking at the modem stats and/or speed testing you wouldn't even have noticed the change.

Disgrace or not, is it worth working yourself into a lather over?

No matter how annoyed, frustrated and noisy you get, DLM will still plod along regardless.

Go out. Have a beer. Watch the rugby. The phone line will keep doing its thing

Quote from: adslmax on November 17, 2017, 05:56:36 PM

This is disgrace of how BT system work. It's a cheat to the system. BT are happy to reduced your sync rate more quickly but leave it for a very long time to increase sync rate is a bloody joke.

It's should give a maximum of 2-4 days to restore it back if stable. Not months or year!

No it should not! Jeeze max, slow down a bit and engage brain for a mo.
There'd be thousands of lines all around the UK flapping about every few days if DLM was set up like that. The complaints for line instability would come pouring in and ISPs and Openreach would be inundated.

From looking at your GEA results your line was behaving exceedingly badly for at least a day before the DLM took action.
What I find strange is that you never even noticed the line when it was behaving poorly, yet you are claiming you're noticing the loss of 6 Mbps from 80Mbps.. that does not make sense.

When my line starts acting up, I sure as heck do notice it... surfing becomes painful. I used to be able to sync at full 80Mbps for years.. had an attainable in excess of 110Mbps, yet now I can only sync at around 72Mbps... or even worse 67Mbps when DLM gets a grip of it. There's stuff all I can do other than sit and wait it out. Last time it took 2 weeks.

However what concerns me is that you appear to be banded because your line lost sync 80 times in one day last week.
It's also bugging me that PN arent listening to the fact that your DLM data is old. I'm not sure if they'll be able to do anything about it though... you do need to sit tight a bit longer.
I will if I get chance go type something over there ... but no promises... because its hard work for me to type and I sure as hell will suffer for the next few days if I do too much. First I have to deal with site stuff then I'll see if I can.

Loss sync 80 times in a day? How on earth that happen? I only swap between hub one and billion probably twice but did wait for 30 minutes before swap the modem over. More likely blamed on hub one with software version not updated properly and kept updated and rebooted plus the loss of power cut.

By the way I have to accepted DLM to wait for couple of weeks before DLM will removed banded on my line. But sadly plusnet fault team refused the line is banded. Saying in repeated times your line isn't banded. I just know that plusnet fault team is lied and can't be (two words removed) bothered.

[Moderator edited so as to conform with the family nature of this site.]

The Plusnet support team are just going by what the test says and disregarding anything to the contrary. I wouldn't have thought it would make any difference to their willingness to send an engineer to do a DLM reset even if the test did say the profile was 0-74Mb. Unless they're going to have some weird policy of resetting any banding that's limiting the speed, but then they'd probably say that the banding isn't limiting the speed because the test says the downstream speed is 70.8.

If the line still banded after 4 weeks as of today. Then I have to placed an order to migrated away from useless PN to AAISP or Pulse8 and hopefully the new ISP will have DLM reset itself.

Quote from: adslmax on November 18, 2017, 06:01:11 PM

If the line still banded after 4 weeks as of today. Then I have to placed an order to migrated away from useless PN to AAISP or Pulse8 and hopefully the new ISP will have DLM reset itself.

It will reset, though not necessarily the banding bit (might, depends), if either you change to 40/10 or 55/10 temporarily (which will probably reset the banding bit for sure), or if the backhaul changes (e.g. from BT's WBMC to say... GEA/LLU on TalkTalk which AAISP do if signing up for a terabyte package currently). AAISP hope to be introducing terabyte options for BT's backhaul soon however I believe, and a possible introduction of 1 month contracts on FTTC next year.

Not sure if changing product works with banding. Didn't with William when he went for 40/10 to 55/10. Not even sure about a straight forward BTw -> BTw migration :(

>> Then I have to placed an order to migrated away from useless PN to AAISP or Pulse8 and hopefully the new ISP will have DLM reset itself.

Curious why one min you blame the router, BT, then DLM, now Plusnet are useless. :-\
Whilst the GEA data they are getting is obviously out of date and it is annoying that they cant see that.. as above even if they did see it was banded I don't think they will be able to do anything about it.

The other ISPs you mention don't have the ability to request DLM reset either.
Try Sky.... but I doubt they would because you I dont think you fall within the required specifications to put in a request. Migrating to them though should cause a reset.

Quote from: kitz on November 18, 2017, 08:32:36 PM

The other ISPs you mention don't have the ability to request DLM reset either.
Try Sky.... but I doubt they would because you I dont think you fall within the required specifications to put in a request. Migrating to them though should cause a reset.

Then look forward to the moans from the OP when they get hit with the cancelation charge due to moving away from a BTW supplied product ::)

Am I right, if the line is banding. DLM will never removed banding off? I heard someone saying it will never removed for a year or even move to another isp! :(

lines shouldnt be recovering from banding automatically in just 2-3 days in my opinion max.

The system now is perhaps too conservative in that it can take a very long time, but what you need to remember from the provider's point of view, a slower line is better than a unstable line, the latter is by far more likely to generate complaints that require a resolution.

I know I don't expect it to happen in 2-3 days. But probably after 90 days!

Quote from: adslmax on November 19, 2017, 03:35:06 PM

Am I right, if the line is banding. DLM will never removed banding off? I heard someone saying it will never removed for a year or even move to another isp! :(

It won't take days. It will more than likely take weeks or months for banding to be removed.

You would probably have lost more sync if interleaving were applied. Don't worry about it. Your line is stable and you achieve a reasonable sync speed. It's within the estimates for your line.

You need to stop obsessing about 6Mb of sync which you don't even notice. Looking at your ThinkBroadband BQM (which is almost flat) it looks like you never fully use your 74Mb sync anyway.

As for BQM I was busy doing something different away from PC

Sure you want to pay A&A £60 a month for Internet access?

I remember you being worried about paying Plusnet full price and being worried about losing your referral discounts. Those guys don't offer discounts and don't do referrals, what you see is what you pay.

Pretty crazy paying so much more a month just to get DLM reset.

Or even get a virgin cable 601/41 :P :fingers:

Yes but Ignitionnet does a lot of work from home and iirc has a home and office network with more complex requirements than your average home user.
A lot of data is transferred over his line... therefore more bandwidth = more productivity. :)

Yes I'd love his connection.. but do I need it? No I dont. Could I justify the expense? No I couldn't.
If by some miracle I got that here... it would really only be for willy waving purposes. ;)

I work from home all the time. My home is my office. I do have relatively high bandwidth requirements and pay for business service accordingly.

I have a home network, split off from that an office network and separate from all of that 2 lab networks where I replicate customer issues and play with malicious software.

As far as expense goes: the broadband goes on expenses ;)

I also have a business of my own that I am going to want to develop at some point.

At the moment due to timing and being in the process of changing things around I actually have 4 Internet connections at the moment. BT VDSL @ 70-ish Mb, Pulse8 @ a banded 55 Mb, then the VM Voom 200 and 350 services.

I can't really criticise people for how they react to banding. My reaction was to say, err, <expletive> it and then replace it with cable when it arrived.

I'm dropping 2 of the connections; the Pulse8 is going as is one of the VM connections as it isn't actually mine it's on loan from their technical team and at some point they'll want the modem they lent me back!

Fair enough. If I only use pc for internet, plus my daughter on Netflix HD and video chat with my family. Then I think probably better off with PN 40/10 instead just for two adults in the household.

It is interesting looking back at the times when my "active interest" (not obsession) in internet speeds has waxed and waned.

When I last had DLM intervention, I said b****x, watched the data for 2 days, then went and got on with life. It sorted itself out after a month, and I never noticed.

In 1994, internet access was a fascinating, interesting hobby.

In 2000, 2Mbps ADSL was fascinating, but the real change was that it made work from home possible.

In 2011, the switch to FTTC was engrossing, but mostly about the politics of the rollout. Not the speed itself

Somewhere since about 2009, internet access (and the broadband that made it easy) has become a tool. It just works - for work, entertainment, shopping and social stuff - and I concentrate on other things.

The last 2 times we moved house, broadband grabbed a lot of my attention - to make sure we got sufficient speed when we arrived. Once there and working, it slips off the "todo" list, back to being a useful tool. It gets about the same amount of attention that I pay to having a car - ie attention only when it isn't working!

If we started to lose speed now, I'd be concerned ... but that would more be because of the question as to whether it portends a complete outage, rather than for the small loss in speed right now. My first steps would be to make sure our backup option (4G) was working correctly.

My modem now been stable for 7 days ongoing but DLM haven't act yet. Is it safe to try rebooted modem to see if sync rate had been kicked in, or just don't because it will making it lots worse for DLM to think it more faulty if rebooted once every 7 days?

Or shall I leave it alone for a month see what happen?

Code: [Select]

Stats recorded 20 Nov 2017 20:47:37

DSLAM/MSAN type:        	BDCM:0xa48c / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  	AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode:               	VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                 	Showtime
Uptime:                 	7 days 0 hour 3 min 6 sec
Resyncs:                	0 (since 20 Nov 2017 17:08:34)
			
				Downstream	Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  	11.4		0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):	Not available on VDSL2		
Connection speed (kbps):	73998		20000
SNR margin (dB):        	10.5		14.1
Power (dBm):            	12.5		-1.0
Interleave depth:       	8		4
INP:                    	52.00		55.00
G.INP:                  	Enabled		Enabled
Vectoring status:       	5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)		

RSCorr/RS (%):          	0.0000		0.1062
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        	0.0000		0.0000
ES/hour:                	0		0

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    0
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 33006 Kbps, Downstream rate = 91723 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 73998 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.5            14.0
Attn(dB):        11.4            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.5           -1.0

                        VDSL2 framing
                        Bearer 0
MSGc:           -6              -6
B:              146             81
M:              1               1
T:              0               0
R:              8               8
S:              0.0630          0.1295
L:              19683           5560
D:              8               4
I:              155             90
N:              155             90
Q:              8               4
V:              4               1
RxQueue:                140             135
TxQueue:                35              27
G.INP Framing:          18              18
G.INP lookback:         31              27
RRC bits:               24              24
                        Bearer 1
MSGc:           154             58
B:              0               0
M:              2               2
T:              2               2
R:              16              16
S:              6.4000          16.0000
L:              40              16
D:              3               1
I:              32              32
N:              32              32
Q:              0               0
V:              0               0
RxQueue:                0               0
TxQueue:                0               0
G.INP Framing:          0               0
G.INP lookback:         0               0
RRC bits:               0               0

                        Counters
                        Bearer 0
OHF:            0               0
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             3900973848              1227965
RSCorr:         1885            3896
RSUnCorr:       0               0
                        Bearer 1
OHF:            37662069                66577
OHFErr:         0               0
RS:             376620078               937400
RSCorr:         15              54
RSUnCorr:       0               0

                        Retransmit Counters
rtx_tx:         105767          738
rtx_c:          193             1181
rtx_uc:         0               63514

                        G.INP Counters
LEFTRS:         0               15
minEFTR:        73985           19995
errFreeBits:    682966874               242350585

                        Bearer 0
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    187391219               0
Data Cells:     728379873               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

                        Bearer 1
HEC:            0               0
OCD:            0               0
LCD:            0               0
Total Cells:    0               0
Data Cells:     0               0
Drop Cells:     0
Bit Errors:     0               0

ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
AS:             605046

                        Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           55.00
INPRein:        1.00            1.00
delay:          0               0
PER:            0.00            0.00
OR:             0.01            0.01
AgR:            74377.87        20184.26

                        Bearer 1
INP:            4.50            4.00
INPRein:        4.50            4.00
delay:          3               0
PER:            16.06           16.06
OR:             79.68           31.87
AgR:            79.68   31.87

Bitswap:        182/182         1076/1076

Total time = 7 days 4 min 32 sec
FEC:            1885            3896
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            26              26
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 15 minutes time = 4 min 32 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 15 minutes time = 15 min 0 sec
FEC:            0               2
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Latest 1 day time = 4 min 32 sec
FEC:            0               0
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Previous 1 day time = 24 hours 0 sec
FEC:            410             562
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
Since Link time = 7 days 4 min 5 sec
FEC:            1885            3896
CRC:            0               0
ES:             0               0
SES:            0               0
UAS:            0               0
LOS:            0               0
LOF:            0               0
LOM:            0               0
 >

FEC: 1885 3896 in 7 days doesn't look good for DLM data count

Just leave it alone, Max.

Use your access to the Internet for some purpose rather than letting the condition of the service control your life. :-X

Quote from: adslmax on November 20, 2017, 08:48:18 PM

Or shall I leave it alone for a month see what happen?

Leave it alone period, don't even look at the stats ;)

If it was me I would leave it alone, the modem should get some sort of signal from the DLM to say changes have now been made on this circuit and it will retrain by itself.

Quote from: adslmax on November 20, 2017, 08:48:18 PM

My modem now been stable for 7 days ongoing but DLM haven't act yet. Is it safe to try rebooted modem to see if sync rate had been kicked in, or just don't because it will making it lots worse for DLM to think it more faulty if rebooted once every 7 days?

Or shall I leave it alone for a month see what happen?

No, no, no and another no.
FTTC DLM will never remove 1 of its steps with a manual resync. It just doesn't work like that.

Quote from: adslmax

FEC: 1885 3896 in 7 days doesn't look good for DLM data count

That's very low.
It's actually 1 FEC every 5 mins. That's absolutely nothing to worry about.

G.INP will probably remove from the upstream 1st. Keep an eye out for that. It will trigger a resync. Post back when that happens.
Until then don't stress over it. You'll never notice the difference.

Ok everyones. I just leave it alone.

Here is latest stats of of now:

[attachment deleted by admin]

[attachment deleted by admin]

Those stats are ridiculously clean - my line would have tens of millions of FECs in that time!
As for no CRCs or ES - is the cabinet in your front room by any chance? :lol:

If DLM can't see that as a top notch line then the rest of us have no hope. :no:

My fibre cabinet is the front footpath by my house, just walk across it.

PN fault team has reply to my ticket say there is nothing wrong with the line. BT Estimated speed between 70 and 80 Meg so they can't do nothing about it. They also ran the final GEA TEST.

Saying my line isn't banding and interleaved is very low on downstream and OFF on the upstream reporting 19.1 and downstream report is 70.8 but that was very old GEA TEST (outdated) this doesn't match my current stats.

Code: [Select]

GEA Service Test
Test Outcome	Pass
Test Outcome Code	GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description	GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location	OK
Appointment Required	N
NTE Power Status	PowerOn
Sync Status	In Sync
Downstream Speed	70.8
Upstream Speed	19.1
Profile Name	0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Copper Line Test	Pass
Bridge Tap	Not Detected
Radio Frequency Ingress	Not Detected
REIN	Not Detected
Cross Talk	Not Detected

Complaint about the outdated GEA test? It's clearly wrong and you can prove that.

Your stats show you are on Retransmission High for both Downstream/Upstream.

Code: [Select]

Bearer 0
INP:            52.00           55.00
INPRein:        1.00            1.00

I know as the fault team only follow BT DLM system as the rules. They must follow BT data not the modem stats. They can't do anything about it, have to wait until DLM recover itself or in worse case might never happen for months.

Going to contact ASSIA over FTTC DLM complaint of quicker to reduced sync rate but take ages to recovers via this site https://www.assia-inc.com and asked them to make change to Openreach DLM adjustment such as recover DLM within 7 days of stable on FTTC not waiting for months or never happen until engineer reset at the cabinet is total out of question until the fault on the line is fixed.

The case was back in 2014 over BT DLM over RAMBO here: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6726-assia-court-case-forces-openreach-to-turn-off-dlm

Quote from: adslmax on November 22, 2017, 12:32:42 AM

Going to contact ASSIA over FTTC DLM complaint of quicker to reduced sync rate but take ages to recovers via this site https://www.assia-inc.com and asked them to make change to Openreach DLM adjustment such as recover DLM within 7 days of stable on FTTC not waiting for months or never happen until engineer reset at the cabinet is total out of question until the fault on the line is fixed.

The case was back in 2014 over BT DLM over RAMBO here: https://www.thinkbroadband.com/news/6726-assia-court-case-forces-openreach-to-turn-off-dlm

What?
I'm well aware of the ASSIA case.... we've talked about it on here many times and in much greater depth than that article.

I have no idea what you think ASSIA are going to do - other than to be quite frank laugh at the thought of it annoying a BT Openreach customer. Its all been battled out in court.

Whilst as a result of that court case Openreach has changed their DLM and it does seem to take longer for banding to be removed*... engineer resets are an Openreach decision. They are trying to do something about that though and it is currently a work in progress.

Max that really is a bad idea about ASSIA as I 100% guarantee it will get you absolutely nowhere and do nothing other than wind you up more.

@Kitz there is a big chance for DLM Reset to removed banding on the line, is to downgrade to 40/10 then upgrade back to 80/20 but I think Plusnet are not allow to do this way? I can ask the fault team tomorrow see what they have to say.

There is no guarantee it will work. We have seen product changes which dont.

As regards to whether Plusnet will do it. It will cost them as they will have to pay for the downgrade. Cant recall off the top of my head how much it is.
There may also be a fee for them to re-upgrade, there was a special offer running for upgrades, but that may have now finished. Too tired to go searching.

max you really need to learn to accept what you have and just get on with life, because your addiction will go crazy with how long the recovery is expected to take.

Indeed, it might work but there's no guarantee. Plusnet will most likely have to pay a regrade fee both for downgrading and upgrading your speed unless the special offer kitz mentioned is still running (I haven't checked either). This will obviously start a new contract term too. You have nearly full speed and G.INP (not the traditional and god awful interleaving/delay), I'd leave it at that and just wait for DLM. You may be able to encourage it to take positive action a little sooner by applying a hard cap but given you've only lost a small amount of speed and don't have an increased ping I wouldn't bother.

Updated: surprise DLM made a change to my line overnight but not much change still on 74Meg.

Code: [Select]

DSLAM/MSAN type:        	BDCM:0xa48c / v0xa48c
Modem/router firmware:  	AnnexA version - A2pv6F039g1.d24m
DSL mode:               	VDSL2 Profile 17a
Status:                 	Showtime
Uptime:                 	 2 hours 52 min 33 sec
Resyncs:                	0 (since 22 Nov 2017 12:13:19)
			
				Downstream	Upstream
Line attenuation (dB):  	11.5		0.0
Signal attenuation (dB):	Not available on VDSL2		
Connection speed (kbps):	74000		20000
SNR margin (dB):        	10.0		14.5
Power (dBm):            	12.4		-0.6
Interleave depth:       	16		8
INP:                    	49.00		47.00
G.INP:                  	Enabled		Enabled
Vectoring status:       	5 (VECT_UNCONFIGURED)		

RSCorr/RS (%):          	0.0000		0.0325
RSUnCorr/RS (%):        	0.0000		0.0000
ES/hour:                	0		0

Code: [Select]

adsl info --stats
adsl: ADSL driver and PHY status
Status: Showtime
Last Retrain Reason:    1
Last initialization procedure status:   0
Max:    Upstream rate = 33120 Kbps, Downstream rate = 89401 Kbps
Bearer: 0, Upstream rate = 20000 Kbps, Downstream rate = 74000 Kbps
Bearer: 1, Upstream rate = 0 Kbps, Downstream rate = 0 Kbps
Link Power State:       L0
Mode:                   VDSL2 Annex B
VDSL2 Profile:          Profile 17a
TPS-TC:                 PTM Mode(0x0)
Trellis:                U:ON /D:ON
Line Status:            No Defect
Training Status:        Showtime
                Down            Up
SNR (dB):        10.0            14.4
Attn(dB):        11.5            0.0
Pwr(dBm):        12.4           -0.6

It's look appear DLM made change to around 4am to 5am see screenshot below of TTB Monitor as I was in bed at that time Zzzz

I can see change of BTw IP Profile increase below:

Before:

Code: [Select]

IP Profile for your line is - 68.57 MbpsAfter:

Code: [Select]

IP Profile for your line is - 71.55 Mbps

The GEA Test is wrong data again! Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off (this is incorrect)

Code: [Select]

est Outcome Pass
Test Outcome Code GTC_FTTC_SERVICE_0000
Description GEA service test completed and no fault found .
Main Fault Location OK
Sync Status In Sync
Downstream Speed 73.9 Mbps
Upstream Speed 20.0 Mbps
Appointment Required N
Fault Report Advised N
NTE Power Status PowerOn
Voice Line Test Result Pass
Bridge Tap Not Detected
Repetitive Electrical Impulse Noise Not Detected
Estimated Line Length In Metres 248.3
Upstream Rate Assessment Very Good
Downstream Rate Assessment Reasonable
Interference Pattern Regular Interference Observed Daily
Service Impact Retrains Observed
Interference Duration Longest Occurrence From 01:30 to 01:45
Interference Location Unknown
Home Wiring Problem Not Detected
Downstream Policing Discard Rate 0.0
Customer Traffic Level Upstream and Downstream Traffic Detected
Technology VDSL
Current 15Min Bin Retrains 0
Last 15Min Bin Retrains 0
Profile Name 0.128M-80M Downstream, Retransmission Low - 0.128M-20M Upstream, Error Protection Off
Time Stamp 2017-11-09T15:30:00
Parameters MIN MAX AVG
Down Stream Line Rate 73.9 Mbps 79.9 Mbps 75.3 Mbps
Up Stream Line Rate 19.9 Mbps 20.0 Mbps 19.9 Mbps
Up Time 0.0 Sec 900.0 Sec 879.4 Sec
Retrains 0.0 80.0 0.0
Current and Last 15 Minute Bin Performance
Parameters Last Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins) Current Traffic Count(Upto 15 mins)
Start Time Stamp 2017-11-22T14:59:10Z 2017-11-22T15:14:10Z
Ingress Code Violation 0 0
Egress Code Violation 0 0
Errored Seconds 0 0
Severely Errored Seconds 0 0
Unavailable Seconds 0 0

Retransmission High to Retransmission Low, on both Upstream/Downstream. Progress Max, progress.
Keep being patient DLM is doing its job.

Quote from: j0hn on November 22, 2017, 04:22:00 PM

Retransmission High to Retransmission Low, on both Upstream/Downstream. Progress Max, progress.
Keep being patient DLM is doing its job.

Yep first time DLM made the change after 9 days waiting. So, hopefully shouldn't be too long for upstream interleaved to be turned OFF and restored downstream back to 79999K.

Does dropped PPP session affect DLM like soft disconnection to different gateway?

Quote from: adslmax on November 22, 2017, 04:26:55 PM

Yep first time DLM made the change after 9 days waiting. So, hopefully shouldn't be too long for upstream interleaved to be turned OFF and restored downstream back to 79999K.

Does dropped PPP session affect DLM like soft disconnection to different gateway?

Only losing DSL sync, enough times, will upset DLM. PPP connections have no bearing on DLM. It's why I prefer to have the router and modem as two different devices, as DrayTek's for example have the unfortunate requirement of sometimes needing to do a restart on certain changes to the router configuration.

My modem went down for couple of minutes for no reason. I thought it was DLM re-sync it but it didn't. Look like DLM will act now because of loss of power. :(

Hi adslmax

This is to let you know that a resync/restart occurred on your line at 19:20 on Wednesday 22nd November 2017 local time (+/- 1 minute).

Reason: 0 Loss of Service

Current Downstream Sync Rate is now 74000kbps @ 10.0db SNRM. Attainable is 89381kbps
Current Upstream Sync Rate is now 20000kbps @ 14.4db SNRM. Attainable is 33093kbps
as measured at the time of this email.

I am not at home at present but email just alert me.

I'd love that. For months I appear to have been banded or something at 35, and my upstream has taken quite a hit! Whilst there is not a huge amount of margin on my line, any little helps at this speed!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Upstream interleaved is now switched off by DLM. But still stuck at banding 74000K :(

Hi adslmax

This is to let you know that a resync/restart occurred on your line at 12:55 on Sunday 26th November 2017 local time (+/- 1 minute).

Reason: 1 Remote Defect Indicator/DLM

Current Downstream Sync Rate is now 74000kbps @ 9.9db SNRM. Attainable is 89280kbps
Current Upstream Sync Rate is now 19999kbps @ 15.1db SNRM. Attainable is 30218kbps
as measured at the time of this email.

**** @ this thread

I've edited this as it might have offended some people - Roseway

Quote from: digitalis on November 26, 2017, 06:26:15 PM

***** @ this thread

Lol... ;D

8 pages over a few mb on the ds :o

Yup. This and the other related threads are why the man is banned from TBB for his own good.

Quote from: digitalis on November 26, 2017, 06:26:15 PM

**** @ this thread

I've edited this as it might have offended some people - Roseway

Please respect me. No need to mouthed me off.

Quote from: Ignitionnet on November 26, 2017, 06:50:44 PM

Yup. This and the other related threads are why the man is banned from TBB for his own good.

Cos I did ask him (MrSaffron to banned me for a year to do him a favour)

It was for you're good NOT Mr Saffron's, all you've done is start posting here, which is not helping you.

You're line is pretty much perfect, you're obsessing over something that really doesn't matter.

For you're own good take the break you asked for.

Quote from: adslmax on November 26, 2017, 10:52:41 PM

Cos I did ask him (MrSaffron to banned me for a year to do him a favour)

You registered a new account there within 30 minutes of asking him to ban you, and registered another one not long after asking to be unbanned.

Anyway it's by the by. There is genuinely nothing you can't do with what you have now you couldn't before. It's an 'up to' service. You're within range for your line. Hopefully it'll relent and restore the 6 Mb but in the interim there is genuinely nothing you can do. Openreach can't intervene, the people who manufacture the equipment and software won't, your ISP won't as they'll be charged for it, it won't be accepted as a fault so it'd have to be a Boost visit.

Why not learn something new instead of obsessing over speed tests and line stats, it's free! https://www.coursera.org/

That's excellent advice. I think it's time to draw a line under this, because there's no more to be said that hasn't already been said several times. Enjoy your nice fast connection, adslmax.

I've taken the liberty to change the topic title of this thread, as the original title inferred that Openreach had been making some new changes to the DLM for Huawei cabs, when really it was DLM doing its usual thing.

As above this thread has served it's purpose... and is continued here (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php/topic,20624.0.html)

Kitz Forum

Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: adslmax on November 11, 2017, 07:05:59 PM