Kitz Forum
Broadband Related => FTTC and FTTP Issues => Topic started by: fwdlink on November 09, 2017, 07:39:33 PM
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Hi All,
Long-time user of the forums and the fantastic information it provides, have my first query that I couldn't find an answer. (Mods I hope I'm in the right forum please move if I'm not)
I am on BT Infinity 2 and I'm making my first ever transfer to its daughter PlusNet (I have always cancelled everything in the past and started fresh before transfers finally became easier)
I'm using my own modem, Zyxel 8924 as the HH6 was unreliable.
Questions:
1) Plusnet has sent a few reminders not to "plug in" the modem until I get the SMS telling me to do so, usual notice stuff. As I'm currently live with BT should I shut down the modem at the day of transition?
2) Is there a reset on my profile at the cabinet causing the sync to drop anyway or is it purely a back-end routing and authentication change repointing my traffic for the PPoE connection?
3) I read somewhere that Plusnet supposedly carries over what profile I already have with BT, is this true or do I get a clear open profile that is allowed to settle back in fresh by the FTTC DSLAM and our DLM friend?
Many thanks in advance and thanks to all the contributors to Kitz, fantastic forum.
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I've migrated ISP's once, but this was many years ago (FTTC to FTTC that is).
My experience was that I lost PPP session overnight on the effective date of migration and had to change the login details.
The DSL signal will only drop if the backhaul is being changed, e.g. from BT's WBMC to GEA (effectively LLU using ISP's equipment in the exchange) or such. The DSL signal will also likely drop if the speed limit is being changed, e.g. 80/20 to 40/10.
1) It's probably just a standard message to be safe, you can follow it if you wish but personally I don't see how it would have any effect. I also noticed not long ago that I can use my Zen Internet login on my AAISP connection and vice versa (I have two FTTC connections, one with Zen and one with AAISP, at the moment).
2) Possibly, see above regarding the DSL signal.
3) If it remains on BT backhaul then yes I imagine this will be the case. I think Plusnet use BT backhaul?
Hope this helps.
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Are you using the Zyxel as a combined modem/router? My advice would be to leave the modem connected if you require the internet. It will reconnect to the DSLAM after the switch but fail to establish a PPP session. You will need to login to the Zyxel and enter the necessary Plusnet credentials. It won't have any negative effect leaving the device connected.
I believe the line will resync at the time of the switch. Should come with a full DLM reset, removing G.INP if active on the line. No engineer will need to visit the cabinet.
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Are you using the Zyxel as a combined modem/router? My advice would be to leave the modem connected if you require the internet. It will reconnect to the DSLAM after the switch but fail to establish a PPP session. You will need to login to the Zyxel and enter the necessary Plusnet credentials. It won't have any negative effect leaving the device connected.
I believe the line will resync at the time of the switch. Should come with a full DLM reset, removing G.INP if active on the line. No engineer will need to visit the cabinet.
jOhn and Ixel thank you both for your replies, much appreciated.
@jOhn Yes I am using a Zyxel and will keep it on considering the feedback and enter the credentials once I get the thumbs up from PN. I'm quite interested in what happens resync wise and DLM profile, will definitely report back. I noted someone else asking similar for the move they have to LLU.
Thanks again...Will post back end of the week after the cut over.
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Following up as promised to confirm what happened and as info for others in my situation:
Recap - I was transferring using the automatic process moving from BT to Plusnet on 80/20 FTTC
On day of transfer was notified the landline was transferred over in the early morning, shortly thereafter the same morning within just a few hours was told broadband was ready.
- A resync did occur
- My profile has been reset - The DSLAM has reset DLM and turned off all protection I had - I am now Fast-path and G.INP is off (ES Errors are very high compared to prior with G.INP and some Interleaving 16/8)
Implications so far since the change:
Lost 6MB of Sync now 74Mbs / Attainable and Sync are nearly identical now with fluctuation to lower attainable than is synced, prior 80Mbs sync and Attainable was usually around 93Mbs and the high 80's depending upon SNR flux
Lost 10MB of effective Speed Down - Not sure if this is partly with all the errors on the line, but I was consistently 76-78Mbs now 66-67Mbs
Target SNR raised to 6d/15u, prior 3d/9u
Ping RTT increased to 13ms, was 9ms
ES in the several hundreds versus sub 50 D/U daily
No Resyncs since the one at cutover
DLM hasn't kicked in yet since this posting which is Day 2
Just waiting for DLM to start reworking my line to bring me back to parity, fingers crossed.
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- My profile has been reset - The DSLAM has reset DLM and turned off all protection I had - I am now G.Fast and G.INP is off (ES Errors are very high compared to prior with G.INP and some Interleaving 16/8)
No, you do not mean "G.Fast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast)" (a.k.a. G.9700/9701) but, I suspect, "fast-path" i.e. non-interleaved.
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No, you do not mean "G.Fast (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast)" (a.k.a. G.9700/9701) but, I suspect, "fast-path" i.e. non-interleaved.
Indeed absolutely correct, had too much G.x on my mind, thanks for the spot! Will update my post.
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Will update my post.
Purr-fect. ;)
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Hi All,
Jumping back in as it's now been 6d since cutover and my line performance has not improved. There have been NO resyncs so the 48hr DLM kick-in that is mentioned on PN's help pages hasn't happened, my line is still all over the place with very high ES rates, attainable rate the lowest I've ever seen.
I'm using a Zyxel and I kept it on for the transition from BT to PN, there was only the 1 resync at cutover time which cleared G.INP, Interleave and INP levels.
If anyone's interested my line stats are on MDWS, cutover was the 16th November. My follow up post above gives my effective loss of speed and increased ping. All liveable mind you, but the peformance that I've had with BT which was 20u/80d and 76-78 effective speedtest consistently is gone now.
Should I stir the pot with PN and end end up with a resync at the super low attainable rate that's currently awaiting for me?
Be more patient?
On a side note would there be any correlation with my having signed up and took their modem (for backup) but continued to use my own and thus the network determining the right equip isn't in place?
Seemingly bizzare situation compared to previous experience...
Thanks
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As far as I can see all you are waiting for is G.INP to be enabled then normal service will be resumed.
I don't think the system is aware of what modem you aren't using but AFAIK the Plusnet modem doesn't support G.INP.
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As far as I can see all you are waiting for is G.INP to be enabled then normal service will be resumed.
I don't think the system is aware of what modem you aren't using but AFAIK the Plusnet modem doesn't support G.INP.
thanks for this, so patience for G.INP to come back to me I guess is in order...I'm really stunned by the lower sync and performance, as my Day 1 was 20/80 with BT and superbly solid, so this is pretty weird when only the provider was changed and the reset in the cabinet.
I would have thought the new PN Hub copy of the BT hub would have G.INP, seems odd hadn't picked that up in their forums, even more bizarre.
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I think it's a HH5A. Currently the BT forums are full of complaints about the HH5A being unstable after the latest f/w upgrade to enable G.INP
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What I think has happened here on this circuit XdB has been enabled before G.INP so your currently running XdB on Fastpath have only seen one other were this has happened on MDWS.
Or you have a nack of entering into power outage situations to gain more sync with less SNRM Crosstalk
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When i migrated from minus-net to Zen the backhaul and product speed remained the same and no resync occurred,
Only when Zen migrated my circuit from WBMC to GEA did i see a resync and lose G.inp due to DLM reset, started off on a fast path profile (wide open) got bursts of errors, DLM interleaved it after 2 days, then it took over a week before i got G.inp reinstated that happened twice, due to the circuit being migrated back to WBMC
I am surprised that i haven't seen DLM lower my SNR yet,maybe they haven't updated the firmware at the Dslam yet???
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Several posts about whether the HH5A could support G.INP were going a bit off topic and as such distracting from the OPs original question. :/
I've split off those posts into a separate thread and moved them out to its own thread:- Does the BT HomeHub 5A support G.INP (http://forum.kitz.co.uk/index.php?topic=20613.0) where it can be seen that it does, but in the downstream direction only.
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When i migrated from minus-net to Zen the backhaul and product speed remained the same and no resync occurred,
Only when Zen migrated my circuit from WBMC to GEA did i see a resync and lose G.inp due to DLM reset, started off on a fast path profile (wide open) got bursts of errors, DLM interleaved it after 2 days, then it took over a week before i got G.inp reinstated that happened twice, due to the circuit being migrated back to WBMC
I am surprised that i haven't seen DLM lower my SNR yet,maybe they haven't updated the firmware at the Dslam yet???
Interesting, at least you've gotten further than myself as mentioned above, DLM has done absolutely nothing with my line and I'm 7d now and loads of errors. Speed is tolerable and its as of now not impacting 4K streaming where I'd expect to see issues at 40Mbs steadily coming down from Netflix etc. with a low tolerance.
Nonetheless I'm perplexed as to why its running free and loose which is worse than what it was with G.INP and some minor interleaving going on.
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Hi All, posting back with an update as promised (sorry it's a bit late)
On exactly day 14 from switch over, and literally within the actual hour that my switch over had occurred earlier my line had a resync with reason code 1 (DLM) This happened on the 30th and the the following was applied to the line:
G.INP became active on the DS (like my line originally had when I was BT) (DS and US on BT)
SNR 6db/15db (3db/9db on BT)
INP 49/0 (48/47 on BT)
Interleave 8/Off (16/8 on BT)
I also received an e-mail from Plusnet immediately indicating my new terrible line speed and a few items about expected speed etc. So it seems there is a connection between the back-end systems on PN and the cabinet DLM, too much coincidence here. Though I'm not saying that CSR's can do anything with DLM just so I'm clear, but the back-end certainly is aware no doubt.
So on the downside, I lost a further 3 Meg on Sync and likewise further degradation on actual speed, so an overall total loss of 15Mbs, leaving the line the worst it has ever been in my entire time of having fiber.
I have had another resync due to my little one turning off the power and this resulted in an increased sync at 77972 when I turned things back on, but this was not related to DLM in case you look at my line stats on MDWS (same username as here)
Since the last sync, I've been up 27 days and no sign of moving down to the 3db SNR, which is annoying as that should take me back to my solid 80/20 days. The only thing I've noticed on the line is a transient SNR shift which I'm guessing is crosstalk, not sure what REIN looks like on the graphs, it's strange as it appears to happen on very exact timings, e.g. 16:45 and then off at 07:45 but moves around in time shifts but again quite exacting on the time it goes on or off.
Question: Anyone have a clue if there is a timing or method by which our favorite DLM system will take me down to 3db SNR on PN?
I've been watching V_R's debacle with great interest hoping I can get back to my original position, but not filled with hope.
Feedback welcomed....
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If your SNRM is dropping at dusk and increasing again at dawn it's most likely due to radio (often medium wave) interference increasing due to atmospheric effects at night. Mine drops by 1-1.5 db overnight, although with no negative effect on error rates.
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I also received an e-mail from Plusnet immediately indicating my new terrible line speed and a few items about expected speed etc. So it seems there is a connection between the back-end systems on PN and the cabinet DLM, too much coincidence here.
I think this was actually a coincidence. I think Plusnet send an email about what speeds you're getting after 2 weeks, they'll do this for every new customer.
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If your SNRM is dropping at dusk and increasing again at dawn it's most likely due to radio (often medium wave) interference increasing due to atmospheric effects at night. Mine drops by 1-1.5 db overnight, although with no negative effect on error rates.
I don't think it's radio waves as it will drop about 2dB and stay this way solid for a week to two weeks and then switch off, so as of this morning it stopped at ~8:50 after starting on New Years day around 16:45. It's interesting the impact is really only on the downstream, it's about .5dB impact on the upstream SNR. Also strangely most of the Christmas break I had no impact, almost like someone went away, making me think it is x-talk however as I don't know how to recognize x-talk patterns on the charts I can't be certain.
What I did think it may be was all the LED Christmas lights as I moved to PN in mid-November when all the lights were going up, now that they are down no change.
@ejs Indeed you may be right, let's put it this way DLM and PN were in sync with timing at a minimum as it's bang on the money when it all transpired and the e-mail reflected the new sync speed within a matter of minutes after DLM enabled G.INP so it read the line info from the back-end.
@ALL any ideas on 3DB SNR enablement? Don't see any reason why it's not yet on my line when I've had it prior and all was perfect.