Kitz Forum
Chat => Tech Chat => Topic started by: Yorkie on April 25, 2008, 03:50:40 PM
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I'm not digital yet and to be honest I'm going there reluctantly. I watch very little tv, some days only putting it on to catch the headline news on the BBC and some days I don't bother. So I'm trying to do this as cheaply as possible without shooting myself in the foot and going too cheap. The one problem as I see it may be the aerial, I had a leaflet through the door last summer which quoted a price of £99 for a new digital aerial. If I have to spend £99 I'd rather spend it on a usb turntable and burn all my Lp's and tapes to cd.
So the question is has anyone any experience of indoor digital aerials.
As an aside I did the post code checker again and the switchover appears to have been put back a year from 2010 to 2011 whats that about.
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I don't have a TV at all. I just watch what I want on broadband for which you don't even need a license (As long as you don't watch "live" streams). Just a thought. :)
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Yorkie, have you tried a freeview box? Perhaps your aerial might be ok. There's lots of aerial installers rubbing their hands with glee at the thought of all those unnecessary aerials they can convince people they need installing to make Digital TV work properly!
You can pick up a box for under £20, or even try and borrow one off somebody to try it with your existing aerial?
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I saw a freeview box advertised for £19.99, which triggered the question really, is that too cheap. I get good reception on analogue despite a sodding great electricity pylon only about 40ft away at the bottom of the garden which the aerial points towards. I have a digital radio in the kitchen which gets good reception (I know its different to the tv but I assume it receives from the same transmitter that the tv signal comes from and is not transmitted on full power).
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If you get a good analogue signal then as Mr Chris points out a Freeview box could be your cheap solution.I myself have a Freeview box and our only ariel is in the loft fastened to a brush stale which is clamped to the joist :-X.It was there when we moved in 9 years ago.All our channels have a very good picture .
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Thank you every one for you replies, shall now go and spend a happy hour browsing the Maplin website.
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One caveat. Make sure your existing TV has a Scart socket on the back. Most modern TVs have them, our old kitchen one hasn't and all the cheap (and not so cheap) Freeview set top boxes need a Scart socket to connect to. I wouldn't usually expect to get good digital reception on an indoor aerial but try it and see, borrowing a set top box if you can. If you are very near the transmitter it may be OK. If you have an outside aerial (your initial post is not clear on this hence my indoor aerial comment) don't be conned into spending money on a "digital" aerial. Unless you are unlucky your local digital channels are being broadcast on the same frequency bands as your existing analogue programmes and your existing outside aerial will be fine. There is no such animal as a digital aerial, it's just an aerial!
Tony
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Plenty to choose from at Curries: http://tinyurl.com/5vwre3
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It is worth pointing out that in most places the Freeview signal isn't currently strong enough to make internal aerials viable. Do remember that the strength of the analogue signal is MANY times the strength of the digital and it'll stay that way until the analogue signal is turned off.
As an example our nearest transmitter is the Waltham one. It currently transmits Freeview at an ERP (effective radiated power) of 4,500W. On 1/5/2011 (switchover day for here) that signal strength will be increased to 37,500W.
If you can wait then I would advise you to do so as you will probably have to upgrade any Freeview box you buy now anyway (for HD/MPEG4 broadcasts).
Edit - apparently Waltham currently transmits at 7,300W and has done since last summer, which correlates with a fairly dramatic improvement to the reception on the ITV mux here. Shame 99% of the programming on the ITV mux is junk but you can't have everything :D
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I can't get digital until our communal aerial gets upgraded - the present system we have was installed 30 years ago.
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rizla
Thats thrown another ball into the air, telly is about five years old and although its not had a lot of use, three years down the road will that need replacing anyway.
Can I go away and hibernate till its all over. :-\
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will that need replacing anyway.
No, just buy a cheap digi (FreeView) box and it will still work okay.
Prices start from £18.00
I saw one the other day which was the size of a credit card and less than 3cm thick.
Dare I say it, Aldi.
http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers/58_5420.htm
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Yorkie
Can you get freeview signal in your area? Where I live we only have analogue until digital switch over in 2011.
gom
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Just remembered, you can check digital freeview availability by putting your postcode and house number in at http://www.freeview.co.uk to see how good the signal is there - that should tell you what you might get. Tells me I should be able to get them all - which I can!
There's a better checker at http://www.digitaluk.co.uk which (for me) is a bit more informative, tells you when the digital switchover for your transmitter is going to happen, and also tells me that my rooftop aerial might need an upgrade until the analogue signals are turned off - fortunately my aerial is pretty good and it does work.
See what either of those sites says for you :)
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GoM
Yes I can get freeview, in fact I have a choice of two transmitters, the postcode checkers always assume I use Bilsdale which covers the Tyne Tees area when in fact aerial is pointing at Emley Moor. I can get the Tyne Tees channels, and do have one tuned in for the local news which is sometimes better than the Yorkshire coverage, I assume this comes in through the back of the aerial, the picture is quite good with just a little bit of ghosting. Using Mr Chris's second link which gives the actual channels available there are more available on Tyne Tees than Yorkshire and its sods law that the one I would be interested in UK History is not available on Yorkshire :'(
I still want to hibernate.
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Just remembered, you can check digital freeview availability by putting your postcode and house number in at http://www.freeview.co.uk to see how good the signal is there - that should tell you what you might get. Tells me I should be able to get them all - which I can!
IMHO that site is as reliable as measuring the signal strength by holding up a wet finger ;)
Yorkie - UKTV History is only good for the first 6 months. Then everything repeats - really. Oh yes and there's less and less "history" on there as time goes by - a typical day will have 50% of some drama which, if you're lucky, has a tenuous link to history. Think pap like Sharpe here ;) Everything decent that's ever been shown on UKTV History is on usenet/P2P anyway - I got The World At War from usenet for example.
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>> UKTV History is only good for the first 6 months. Then everything repeats
I remember that a few years ago there used to be a satellite channel called Einstein.tv which I found really interesting when I first encountered it. But I soon realised that they only had about 20 programmes which they endlessly recycled. Strangely that channel didn't last very long.
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It's a bit like the Birdsong DAB radio channel. Apparently they only have one 20 minute loop of recorded birdsong which they play 24/7, but strangely it's becoming one of the most popular channels. Better than all those DJ's twittering away I suppose.
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IMHO that site is as reliable as measuring the signal strength by holding up a wet finger ;)
Lol - I guess it probably calculates distance from the transmitter in order to give you a guess as to wha might be available. I dunno - guess if you're not stuck in a valley or something, or there's not a large mountain in your way, then I guess it's better than nothing!
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Floydoid
I found the Birdsong, it replaced OneWord I think, which closed, another one I came across was a British Forces Broadcast again replacing a closed station, always pays to do a rescan now and again on the DAB radio.
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>> UKTV History is only good for the first 6 months. Then everything repeats
I remember that a few years ago there used to be a satellite channel called Einstein.tv which I found really interesting when I first encountered it. But I soon realised that they only had about 20 programmes which they endlessly recycled. Strangely that channel didn't last very long.
Didn't you know that it changed it's name to Virgin Media.
And is only good for the first 1 month week 24 hours. Then everything repeats
When they feel like it, they give you another channel called xxx +1 which is as it sounds the same channel but one hour later.
But, when they give you something somewhere, then they usually end-up taking something off you elsewhere, which is usually your favourite channel.
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Floydoid
I found the Birdsong, it replaced OneWord I think, which closed, another one I came across was a British Forces Broadcast again replacing a closed station, always pays to do a rescan now and again on the DAB radio.
I must admit I don't rescan my DAB very often... I tend to flip between Gold and Talksport which are next to each other.
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I'm a digital virgin :baby: don't want it, don't like it etc. Won't get on my soapbox here but suffice to say I hate being bulldozed into summat I don't want, think they have a ruddy cheek to force it on us >:( Sky picture pixillates a lot and when it rains on the dish there's no signal... brilliant isn't it - not!
from a Grumpy Old Woman - snarl
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If your looking for a good Digital set-up I would reccomend an Outdoor aerial with a signal amplifier and watch out for those cheapo freeview boxes anything above £20 but below £45 will do but I went for a HD box which will set you back £120 for a basic one and £200 for one that records to a HDD like SKy or VM. Did that help ?? :)
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What I would like to know is why our government has not acted the same as the American government, and that is to issue "everyone" with vouchers toward the purchase of a digi box regardless of age.
This is something that is being forced upon us, we did not ask for it and should therefore be entitled to the same.
I know there are some T&Cs, such as those people who "declare" that they already have cable do not qualify. Although as no one comes to check what you have, or not as the case may be, everyone I know of has received the vouchers.
OK, if I remember correctly the vouchers are worth about $60.00 and digi box's are from $45.00 upward in the states.
To me this just smacks of our government ripping us off again and raking in the VAT and tax's on something like 4,000,000 (4m) sales of either new TV's or digi box's.
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I'm back, be afraid, very afraid - the time is fast approaching, like next Tuesday, :clap: when I'm off till the end of August and the credit card gets a hammering 'cos I'm at home waiting for all those lovely deliveries.
So first thing is, I've seen this on Maplin
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=223961&doy=29m6#download
and these
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=46229&doy=29m6
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?TabID=1&ModuleNo=99678&doy=29m6
which are confusing me (nothing new there then) because one is in aerials and one is in antennas
any thoughts would be most appreciated.
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any thoughts would be most appreciated.
Yeah.
Forget the lot. Eco friendly my anorack!
Get to Asda and buy one of their set top boxes with TWO Scart outlets (one to the telly and one to the video, to use before changeover).
Unless you can see the transmitter mast, then at the moment the digi signal may not be strong enough for an indoor aerial and you do not know whether, after changeover when the signal power will be increased, it will be strong enough then. You obviously have a telly and aerial at the moment so, if you get a decent picture on the main terrestrial channels you will be OK for digital with a freeview box.
dave
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Absolutely right Dave.
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Yeah.
.... Eco friendly my anorack!
Here Here.
If you're getting a good signal at the moment, then there is no reason why this will degrade with installing a set-top-box.
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Damned if I'm biking 3 miles to Asda and back, thats what grumpy delivery drivers are for ;D
Okay ditch indoor aerial/antenna thing, what about this one
http://www.ebuyer.com/product/139533
Its the BBC's fault, they keep telling me to press the red button when I'm watching the tennis and I keep telling them I haven't got one, or words to that effect.
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I would be a bit wary of one that cheap. It should be OK but the rule of thumb is £20+ for a decent one.
Take a look at this:
http://tinyurl.com/4byar7
Others at Argos too and they will deliver so no need to get 'on yer bike'.
dave
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Good brand and also a good price and the spec also looks good. (I would buy it)
The only thing you need to check out is their definition of "Grade A product", could just be shop soiled or a previous customer return due to a fault that has since been rectified, or even a scratch of some type.
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I'm starting to think that Freesat is a better long-term bet than Freeview.
The rollout of Freeview has taken so long that the video standard (MPEG2) it transmits is pretty much obsolete. I don't see where they're going to get the additional bandwidth for HDTV (even with MPEG4) and frankly the whole exercise has been a poster child of how NOT to do this sort of thing.
We're having new soffits/bargeboards fitted this week and I was thinking it'd be an ideal time to upgrade the aerial. The thing is that the more I look at this, the more I think I'd be better buying a Freesat dish/box.
Probably not what Yorkie wanted to hear really :)
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Not posted as a recommendation, just that I came across this site.
http://www.frequencycast.co.uk/freesat.html
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Yeah the main problem is the cost of the set-top box :(
The more I think about this, the more convinced I am that Freeview (DVB-T) isn't a viable long-term solution. Terrestrial bandwidth will always be more valuable and I think ultimately that'll be the end of Freeview. HDTV won't be possible without MPEG-4 compression which will mean everyone having to upgrade their boxes again. Let's not forget that Freeview is (at best) simply DVD-quality video and how long have DVD players been around for - 10 years or so? Its obsolete technology that by the time its completely rolled out will be 20 years old!
I need to read up a bit more on Freesat I think.
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The deed is done, I suggest everyone book their holidays now, delivery is anticipated for Wednesday, there may be a lot of questions ;D
rizla - if I was more of a television watcher, thats the route I would probably have taken, but I can go days without putting the television on - everythings on line, news, weather, newspapers etc.
Thanks everyone for your input.
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Oh I'm the same Yorkie. My TV viewing is almost exclusively via BBC IPlayer/online or downloads.
However other people in the house do watch live TV and I'm a typical man (takes me ages to start a job) so I'm thinking long-term here - we will have to replace the main telly this year or next so I don't see much point in having a high-definition TV when Freeview transmissions are only DVD quality (ITV is usually a LOT worse than DVD quality).
As the recession bites, prices will plummet anyway so no rush.....
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The good news is I have sound with set top box, the bad news is I have a rolling picture :cry2:
Looks as if I will need a new aerial. Its nearly there but just not quite.
Juggling with three remote controls, stb, tv and vcr is not easy either, its so long since I have used vcr I've forgotten how to use its remote :D
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Is the orientation of your tv aerial as near to horizontal/vertical as possible. also are all the elements straight and not bent. The most important one is toward the rear of the aerial where the cable would appear to link to,) (the driven element normaly directly in front of either a metal plate or a wider structure expanding out from the main form. any deviation in this part would be the most crutial in having any effect on the signal quality.
Also is the aerial pointing in the same direction as other aerials in your location as this is a good guide of the best reception quality you can recive.
And most importantly of all before tackeling any hands on adjustmnt of an aerial, are you absolutely sure you can access it and adjust it with the full confidence of your safety. If not then pass to professional. I couldn't stand Rod Hull as a performer But i wouldn't wish what happened on him or on any one else
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Good news I have a picture :clap: Bad news what a load of rubbish.
After doing some googling suggestions were bad cabling, as it happened I had a spare scart lead from when I had Nicam vcr connected to Nicam tv (telly long gone, still have vcr) the cable on it is as thick as my little finger changed that with one supplied and problem solved.
Just found a channel to help rabbits find a mate - rabbit chat and date its called ;D
omg you can even gamble on the telly.
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Rizla, and others, might be worthwhile reading this (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/27/bbc_dvbt2_trials/) - BBC are starting fresh trials of HD TV under a new standard they are calling "DVB-T2" (sounds like a Hauppauge product line to me ;) ).
Might be worth a peek - unfortunately there isn't much (any?) information on the standard, but might be worthwhile looking up what this DVB-T2 is all about - it might be MPEG-4 based rather than the near-obsolete MPEG-2 standard currently used!
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Chris,
I found this interesting even if I did struggle to understand some of the finer details:
http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/articles/DVB-T2-to-enable-HDTV-post-switchover.php
dave
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Not talking to you two now. :D
You really know how to depress someone.
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Don't let 'em grind you down Yorkie. You've got a working Freeview system and it didn't cost you an arm and a leg. :thumbs:
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Yes you are quite right I do tend to veer into the 'glass half empty camp'.
If anyone else is reading this, just for information, I have a bog standard aerial, replaced about fifteen years ago when the other one fell off its mast and was hanging by the cable, still got a good picture though. The picture I'm getting is good, no break ups, just the odd stutter in sound, well two occassions of about half a second duration. Although the aerial is pointed at Emley Moor, which is near Huddersfield I think, certainly in the West Riding the back of it points to Bilsdale which is heading out towards Newcastle and the scanner has picked that up to.
So if your dithering (I'm a great ditherer) but are getting good analogue signal now, go for it. There's plenty of help out there.
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Hi Yorkie,
All about where your TV pictures come from.
http://tx.mb21.co.uk/emley/emley.php
When the old mast collapsed I was home on leave and we went up to see it a couple of days later and it was 'something' else.
Lived at home in Barnsley at the time and it was only about 20 minutes from us to go ans have a look.
I remember it was ruddy cold and some of the collapsed guy wires were still covered in ice. They had about 3" of ice on what had bee the top edge and there were icicles about 2 feet long and very fat on the underside. No wonder it came down. There must have been hundreds of tons of frozen water on all the ropes and on the sides of the mast.
At least you are now getting your picture from the UK's tallest self-supporting television mast in Britain.
dave
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I used to enjoy watching them de-ice the mast at Sutton Coldfield, sometimes they would use small explosive charges and the ice falling was amazing.
I purchased a USB Freeview dongle a while back and with it connected to the main roof aerial received 60 DVB-T Channels.
On my ordinary (normal) Freeview setup I get 87 channels in total, although "most" of them are of absolutely no interest to me, such as Music, Shopping, Text and News channels, which then leaves "about" 21 freeview channels of any interest.
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At the risk of sounding geeky, that was quite interesting, I didn't know it had collapsed, and I would certainly be old enough to remember. Didn't know it was partly concrete, always imagined it as a super oversized pylon on some bleak inaccessable moor.
Have to agree with you about the shopping channels, I'd heard of QVC but didn't realise there were others.
Watched a film last night, which I haven't done for ages, was pleasantly surprised, 'cos I thought it would be unwatchable with all the advert breaks (heard people complain about this with sky) but they were about the same as the 'normal' channels.
Sorry I'm a big kid with a new toy, even bought a digital TV guide
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Sorry I'm a big kid with a new toy, even bought a digital TV guide
Now that's asking for trouble.
I did the same when I first had cable, even marked "ALL" the programs for the week which I would want to watch. which was a BIG mistake as I found myself then watching TV 7 days a week until the early hours.
Then I discovered most of the programs are repeated, repeated, repeated, repeated, and repeated again, so don't worry if you miss a movie or something.
My main complaint with Freeview & Cable, is most of the time if a program is split into 2 parts, I forget when the next part is on.
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What a wonderful time for you to enjoy the full benefits of digital as the Tour de France starts today and goes on til 23 July! ITV4 show a good "highlights" programme :) each day at 7.00pm for an hour (actually starts a little later tonight at 7.15).
Even if you don't enjoy the cycling all that much (and believe it or not there are occasionally people who don't!) you will certainly enjoy the scenery - esp the days in the Pyrenees (12/13th July) and the days in the Alps (15/16th July).
EDIT: Alps is Day 15/16 of race (21/22 July)
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Not sure I'm into watching men in spandex shorts. ;D
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:lol: I don't blame you for that - but the cycling is excellent!
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Rizla, and others, might be worthwhile reading this (http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/27/bbc_dvbt2_trials/) - BBC are starting fresh trials of HD TV under a new standard they are calling "DVB-T2" (sounds like a Hauppauge product line to me ;) ).
Might be worth a peek - unfortunately there isn't much (any?) information on the standard, but might be worthwhile looking up what this DVB-T2 is all about - it might be MPEG-4 based rather than the near-obsolete MPEG-2 standard currently used!
There's simply no bandwidth space for HDTV using MPEG2, that's why they're only talking about converting one mux to HDTV by the end of 2009.
Even in the UK you're going to be hard-pressed to find anyone in the BBC/govt who is dumb enough to suggest that viewers will have to upgrade their set-top boxes within a couple of years of buying their existing (already obsolete) boxes.
We no longer have the engineering management to handle projects of this scale in the UK with anything resembling competency.
DVB-T is as dead as Labour IMHO.