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Announcements => News Articles => Topic started by: Bowdon on February 08, 2017, 05:31:24 PM

Title: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Bowdon on February 08, 2017, 05:31:24 PM
Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38906561)

Quote
Five people have been arrested, accused of selling set-top boxes modified to stream subscription football matches, television channels and films for free.

The sale of so-called "fully loaded Kodi boxes" has been called a "top priority" by the Federation Against Copyright Theft (Fact).

The five traders were arrested in early morning raids.

Fact said it believed the suspects had made in the region of 250,000 selling the devices online.

Kodi is free software built by volunteers to bring videos, music, games and photographs together in one easy-to-use application.

Some shops sell legal set-top boxes and TV sticks, often called Kodi boxes, preloaded with the software.

The developers behind Kodi say their software does not contain any content of its own and is designed to play legally owned media or content "freely available" on the internet.
Other source: http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kodi-legal-police-raid-five-sellers-fully-loaded-boxes-over-modified-streaming-devices-1605445 (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/kodi-legal-police-raid-five-sellers-fully-loaded-boxes-over-modified-streaming-devices-1605445)

I don't really understand why they have done this now, considering there is a test case going through the courts deciding if its legal or not to sell these boxes. I assume that because there is a test case means its not 100% sure that its illegal.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Chrysalis on February 08, 2017, 06:41:36 PM
If the boxes were sold with kodi preinstalled but nothing else, especially pre configuring to connect to those services then I fail to see how its illegal, kodi in itself is legal software.

It is a bit like saying if you sell a pc with bittorent installed its illegal which is nonsense.

I think the key here is if these boxes were pre configured to connect to the illegal services, if they were not then I think its legal.  (by preconfigured I mean setting up server details and user/password).

I think BS mentioned in another thread tho he brought a box that was actually preconfigured in which case that would be illegal selling.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Ronski on February 08, 2017, 07:52:04 PM
Loads of people are buying them, I know two people who are not even computer literate that have done away with Sky and use them, they've even watched films such as Hacksaw Ridge which are not yet available to buy in the UK. Apparently the quality is very good. They are clearly sold configured and ready for use, some are even charging a subscription apparently, can't remember the monthly figures but it was 50 for a years access, not that I'd want to pass my credit card details over to them!

One thing is clear to me is that people are getting fed up with being ripped off by the likes of $ky, if prices where lower then people wouldn't mind paying, I've never had Sky or a 'fully loaded kodi box' but do have Netflix and Amazon Prime.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Black Sheep on February 08, 2017, 08:11:01 PM
If the boxes were sold with kodi preinstalled but nothing else, especially pre configuring to connect to those services then I fail to see how its illegal, kodi in itself is legal software.

It is a bit like saying if you sell a pc with bittorent installed its illegal which is nonsense.

I think the key here is if these boxes were pre configured to connect to the illegal services, if they were not then I think its legal.  (by preconfigured I mean setting up server details and user/password).

I think BS mentioned in another thread tho he brought a box that was actually preconfigured in which case that would be illegal selling.

No, the box I bought was just a bog-standard Android box that already has Kodi installed on it. The other 'apps' I have had put on by a mate of mine, and I now stream IPTV from the link that you asked for.

For 59 a year, I have every sport I wish to watch (Box office as well), and every movie ...... yes, Hacksaw Ridge as well ...... all in HD quality. I have been ripped off for donkeys years with SKY.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Chrysalis on February 08, 2017, 08:15:47 PM
Ok thanks for clarifying, in that case I dont see your purchase as been illegal.

Oh and of course I agree with you ronski, but instead of adjusting the prices they simply move aggressively to shut down the alternate means of getting the content, sky are whacked in that they seem to genuinely dont see a problem with the pricing.

BT are slowly heading in the same direction as well, they tried to make it work with low/free content but have ended up having to increase prices in other parts of their business to subsidise after realising it doesnt work.

At some point the EPL bubble will burst and sanity will arrive. 

Netflix were getting the same issue with the movie companies who have been persistently asking netflix to jack up their prices so they can be paid more for the movies, netflix instead is slowly ditching the movies and moving to original content.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Black Sheep on February 08, 2017, 08:19:35 PM
Cheers .............. TBH, I can't see the 'powers that be' being bothered with the little man ....... they'd rather invest their time and money in nabbing the sellers, just like the Police with drugs. #hereshoping  ;)
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Chrysalis on February 08, 2017, 08:21:18 PM
Well yeah they dont care about people buying the equipment, by illegal I was talking about who sold you the unit.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Bowdon on February 08, 2017, 08:45:20 PM
I wonder what will happen if the court case http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38769045 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-38769045) turns out it is legal to sell them? Are all these people 'raided' going to be able to claim compensation? I must admit I'd like to see that lol.

I've personally never understood why the police are enforcing copyright law. They seem to be he 'heavies', while these bounty hunters go around hassling people.

You're right about Sky. Many years ago I used to be in to the WWF/E wrestling. I'd watched it on tapes before it arrived over here on Sky. Sky kept moving it around channels. Events went from Sky 1, to Sky Sports, to Sky Movies. Every time they created a new channel that they encrypted they put the wrestling on that channel. They knew exactly what they were doing.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: stevebrass on February 09, 2017, 04:18:35 AM
Whether or not you think a copyright owners price is too high buying from an unlicensed source is theft.

I think BMWs are too expensive. Is it acceptable for me to buy off somebody who has stolen one? No. If a product is too expensive for you to buy legally then don't buy it.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Black Sheep on February 09, 2017, 07:27:02 AM
Whether or not you think a copyright owners price is too high buying from an unlicensed source is theft.

I think BMWs are too expensive. Is it acceptable for me to buy off somebody who has stolen one? No. If a product is too expensive for you to buy legally then don't buy it.

My exact thoughts for many, many years ^^^ ...................... my morals have cost me thousands of pounds, money I could afford but money that could also have been put to better use.

The question you have to ask yourself is, 'Am I happy to join the increasing masses of folk getting much more, for much less ?'.

The conclusion I came to was, 'Yes'. We all know the implications stevebrass.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: CarlT on February 09, 2017, 09:08:32 AM
I am perhaps quite fortunate in that I have no interest in 99.99% of things on pay TV so just don't have it.

Netflix, Eurosport Player and TennsTV, job done.

I can't think of many things worse than sticking my eyeballs to a TV screen for hours on a night but it's a personal thing. Tens of millions very clearly disagree!
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Chunkers on February 09, 2017, 09:43:09 AM
in my view people have no excuses on this one, there are so many easy ways to watch content now using Netflix, Amazon Prime, NowTV etc etc

I guess its another example of the "entitlement culture" - exactly the analogy posted by @stevebrass. 
It's also true that some people buy these without even understanding what they are and are in denial "there is no such thing as a free lunch"

Recently an acquaintance was telling me about his recently acquired Kodi box and argued with me when I told him it is piracy "No, its all free I bought it on Amazon!"

Its the same as car insurance dodgers and whiplash fraudsters .... in reality this behaviour just makes it more expensive for the honest people who pay their way.

Phew, got that off my chest, hehe

Chunks
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Black Sheep on February 09, 2017, 10:03:28 AM
I remember being 'that man', Chunkers. Forever beating the drum about ethics and morals.  :)

I realised I was pretty much in the minority when the pub chatter turned to watching the latest films, (without paying 5.99 per film, on top of the 'Movie package you already bl00dy pay for) ...... plus all the sports to boot.

It was embarrassing admitting how much my monthly subs were to SKY, and the minimal reward I got for it. Far from being able to take the moral high-ground, I actually felt like a damned fool. So, I took the plunge and haven't looked back.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: d2d4j on February 09, 2017, 10:20:22 AM
Hi

I hope you don't mind, but every one of us have a moral compass. We all know right from wrong, even if we do not admit it, our inner voice tells us 

I realise we live in the real world, where people will take advantage but it's upto each of us to determine how we live our lives

We have freesat, no movies, sports only freesat

I choose this because I see and have lost business to those who do not hold full insurance, or run spurious licences, and I am very clear over helping others who run spurious software, we simply refuse to help and in certain circumstances, have void our warranty to them.

I will though confess, after looking at computer screens most of the day, I do not watch much television, however I do play Xbox for an hour each night (fully paid gold subscription)

Lastly, my opinion of the quality of television programs made are lower then they were from the seventies and eighties, as an example, one foot in the grave is currently been repeated and our eldest granddaughter absolutely loves watching it, and cannot stop laughing. I cannot recall a program from 2000 onwards which has the same appeal but realise we are all different

Just my thoughts, as this topic could be emotive

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Bowdon on February 09, 2017, 11:36:05 AM
I can understand the basic argument that its theft. But in the BMW example, nobody is promoting BMW's 24 hours a day.

The TV producers put a lot of effort in to 'what you could be watching is...', so its understandable that people want to watch it.

The TV companies, mainly Sky, have nearly destroyed football by buying it and making it so not only the football live game is only shown on Sky, but any repeats or even highlights can't be shown on any other channel.

I think there is a difference between people like us who can afford to pay a subscription if we wanted to, and people who cannot afford the subscription at all, with no hope.

I still find it odd that they are doing these 'raids' when there is a court case going on at the moment.

Why arent these cases being heard in a civil court? I've never understood why copyright raids go on, or why people are arrested for copyright offenses. If I produced a programme and someone stole it and didnt credit me, I doubt a police force would be wanting to arrest them.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: CarlT on February 09, 2017, 12:09:49 PM
I remember being 'that man', Chunkers. Forever beating the drum about ethics and morals.  :)

I realised I was pretty much in the minority when the pub chatter turned to watching the latest films, (without paying 5.99 per film, on top of the 'Movie package you already bl00dy pay for) ...... plus all the sports to boot.

It was embarrassing admitting how much my monthly subs were to SKY, and the minimal reward I got for it. Far from being able to take the moral high-ground, I actually felt like a damned fool. So, I took the plunge and haven't looked back.

The obvious response is that no-one forces anyone to take premium TV, and access to it isn't a right. If getting minimal benefit from Sky don't subscribe.

My worry is that as this has apparently become completely acceptable and is so easy the blokes down the pub are doing it some horrendously illiberal laws will come down to deal with it that will have a bunch of collateral damage.

If there were ways to get broadband or phone service without paying for it would people be okay with that?
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: phi2008 on February 09, 2017, 12:56:16 PM
I hope you don't mind, but every one of us have a moral compass. We all know right from wrong, even if we do not admit it, our inner voice tells us 


Religious people often see themselves as "moral" yet carry out appalling crimes to serve God, or turn a blind eye to religious evil. They would argue God can never be evil, but funnily enough they are never on the receiving end of the worst of it. Very easy to endure suffering when it's somebody else's.

People should be very careful before playing the morality card ... glass houses etc.

As for pirated content I don't think there is any way to secure material. HDMI uses HDCP to secure devices- you can buy HDMI splitters for 20 that also strip HDCP, leaving a copyable stream, from Amazon UK - or Ali Express for about 10. You can strip HD or 4K - anything that outputs to HDMI can be copied perfectly.

Sky actually flash up box IDs on some live broadcasts - so if they're watching a pirated live stream they can actually trace the ID back to the user.

(https://s27.postimg.org/npri4h84j/sky_2012_11_27215133.jpg)

Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: d2d4j on February 09, 2017, 01:02:27 PM
Hi phi2008

Many thanks, but sorry, I was not referring to religion, just the moral compass for doing the right thing, not the wrong thing

I intentionally do not enter into religious or political posts

Many thanks

John
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Bowdon on February 09, 2017, 02:22:06 PM
If the price of the product was cheaper then more people would buy it.

At a certain price point someone will weigh up what its value and worth is. I think most people wouldn't want to pay the guy at the pub for these services if a near as cheap official version was affordable, with all the added benefits that come with it. Isn't this really how non-BT/OR companies operate, by trying to offer cheaper packages than BT/OR.

I think it would be more financially beneficial to lower the price and get more customers.

@Ignitionnet - If the price of broadband became too high then people would look for ways to hijack others wifi and the like. Or the product would just crash.

People are more ruthless these days. But I think the tone as been set by some of the big companies. Trying to squeeze money from middle England means poor England dropped out of the conversation years ago.

Some of the companies these days are so disconnected from their customer base it is amazing they survive. I suspect they live off a past good brand. Nintendo springs to mind.

Business men ruling the computer world  >:(
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Chrysalis on February 09, 2017, 09:31:01 PM
Whether or not you think a copyright owners price is too high buying from an unlicensed source is theft.

I think BMWs are too expensive. Is it acceptable for me to buy off somebody who has stolen one? No. If a product is too expensive for you to buy legally then don't buy it.

technically its not theft, its copyright infringement, two different things.

also you comparing a digital product to a physical product.
Title: Re: Five arrests in 'fully loaded' Kodi streaming box raids
Post by: Chrysalis on February 09, 2017, 09:35:23 PM
The obvious response is that no-one forces anyone to take premium TV, and access to it isn't a right. If getting minimal benefit from Sky don't subscribe.

My worry is that as this has apparently become completely acceptable and is so easy the blokes down the pub are doing it some horrendously illiberal laws will come down to deal with it that will have a bunch of collateral damage.

If there were ways to get broadband or phone service without paying for it would people be okay with that?

I see your point, but what we seeing here is a market reaction, it shows people are prepared to pay for the content but do not value the content at the same price sky do.  It is not legal of course., but it is interesting to observe whats going on.

A big factor today is the fact because we have the internet, its easy for people to compare what UK viewers pay compared to oversea's viewers and the difference is colossal on football.